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Xav
11-Jun-2006, 05:55 PM
I am 16 years old, 1m 74, 72 kg. My main goal is to be an effective rugby player and other goal is to punch hard... This is my current routine I am planning on doing in around 2 weeks (after exams), gonna start with 30 kg barbell. Till now I only dyd body weight exercises or used books as "weights".

Any critiscme would be welcome, I am wondering if this wouldnt be overtraining a bit? And what are foods I absolutely HAVE to take at breakfast (now only eat cerceals milk cheese orange juice)

-MOnday: Rest

-Tuesday: long distance running, sprint with interval, cycling (long distance & sprint with interval), rope skipping, bagwork.

-Wednessday: 2 hour rugby training + lifting: squats (10 x 5), deadlift (5x5), military press (5x5), bench press (5x5, not a bench but on the ground, is this bad?), bicep curl (5x5), overhead press (5x5), bent row (5x5), wrist curl (5x5), shrugs (5x5), crunches (around 100), CoC work, chin ups & pull ups (5x5)

-Thursday: long distance running, sprint with interval, cycling (long distance & sprint with interval), rope skipping, bagwork.

-Friday: squats (10 x 5), deadlift (5x5), military press (5x5), bench press (5x5, not a bench but on the ground, is this bad?), bicep curl (5x5), overhead press (5x5), bent row (5x5), wrist curl (5x5), shrugs (5x5), crunches (around 100), CoC work, chin ups & pull ups (5x5)

-Saturday: long distance running, sprint with interval, cycling (long distance & sprint with interval), rope skipping, bagwork.

-Sunday: rugby competition: squats (10 x 5), deadlift (5x5), military press (5x5), bench press (5x5, not a bench but on the ground, is this bad?), bicep curl (5x5), overhead press (5x5), bent row (5x5), wrist curl (5x5), shrugs (5x5), crunches (around 100), CoC work, chin ups & pull ups (5x5)


Thanks a lot for input!!

TheCount
11-Jun-2006, 06:02 PM
Quite a mental routine... tonnes of exercises in there though.

Pobeli
11-Jun-2006, 10:31 PM
I personally think that is way too much everything. Don't do all your exercises on the same days. You might want to do squats on Wednesday and deadlifts on Sunday, or vice versa, but if you do 10x5 squats and 5x5 deadlifts every day, 3 days a week, you're asking for a burnout.

I believe a bench press on the floor is called a floor press, which is a decent exercise, especially if locking out on the bench press is your weak point. You'll be limited in your range of motion, though.

Are you planning to do all of your exercises with 30 kg? That might be a bit much for some, and it'll surely be too little for others, at least once you've learned the form.

10x5 squats is probably overkill. Why not stick to 5x5, or at least 10x3?

You've probably got too many exercises. Barbell curls are not a particularly useful exercise. You could probably also cut out the wrist curls. I notice you put "military press" as well as "overhead press." Is there a difference? You could probably cut out one or the other. Doing 100 crunches won't do you much good either, unless your goal is to develop your abilities to do hundreds of crunches. You should probably do more intense ab exercises, or rely on exercises such as squats to hit your abs, or perhaps substitute overhead squats for squats sometimes.

TheCount
11-Jun-2006, 10:50 PM
In rugby there is a lot of pushing, pulling, turning and all this. I think probably 100 cruches would in fact benefit him from the point of vew that his ABS will be more used to continual strain without ceasing, tearing or similar.

blessed_samurai
12-Jun-2006, 05:57 AM
You need to put things a bit more into perspective. Doing military press 5X5 then OH press 5X5 is pointless. You don't need wrist curls, you're over doing direct bicep work and at that-you're lacking direct tricep work with your direct bicep work.

That's for starters but I must attend my bed for now.

TheMachine
12-Jun-2006, 07:06 AM
just do the Bill Starr 5x5 and you'll be fine

Desk_Driver
12-Jun-2006, 10:07 AM
nd what are foods I absolutely HAVE to take at breakfast

You've already got the essentials. I will suggest, however, that the cereal you eat is high fibre cereal. I wouldn't advise anyone to eat cereal like Kellog's Frosties or Coco-Pops! My personal choice is All Bran and whilst it's quite dry, I find mixing in chopped strawberry's makes eating it more enjoyable.

Xav
12-Jun-2006, 11:06 AM
thanks for help

looks like i'll drop overhead press, do squats (5x5) and squats & deadlift on different days

btw what are good ab exercises :o

TheMachine
12-Jun-2006, 11:35 AM
thanks for help

looks like i'll drop overhead press, do squats (5x5) and squats & deadlift on different days

btw what are good ab exercises :o

If you do heavy squats, deadlift, overhead presses and rows, you'll get all the indirect ab work you'll need as the abs will be working hard in stabilizing during those movements

harhar
13-Jun-2006, 12:28 AM
-Wednessday: 2 hour rugby training + lifting: squats (10 x 5), deadlift (5x5), military press (5x5), bench press (5x5, not a bench but on the ground, is this bad?), bicep curl (5x5), overhead press (5x5), bent row (5x5), wrist curl (5x5), shrugs (5x5), crunches (around 100), CoC work, chin ups & pull ups (5x5)

-Friday: squats (10 x 5), deadlift (5x5), military press (5x5), bench press (5x5, not a bench but on the ground, is this bad?), bicep curl (5x5), overhead press (5x5), bent row (5x5), wrist curl (5x5), shrugs (5x5), crunches (around 100), CoC work, chin ups & pull ups (5x5)

-Sunday: rugby competition: squats (10 x 5), deadlift (5x5), military press (5x5), bench press (5x5, not a bench but on the ground, is this bad?), bicep curl (5x5), overhead press (5x5), bent row (5x5), wrist curl (5x5), shrugs (5x5), crunches (around 100), CoC work, chin ups & pull ups (5x5)

Thanks a lot for input!!

Umm?? Too much man.. Try taking one of those days and divide it into 3 days.

inteq9
14-Jun-2006, 02:43 AM
If you do heavy squats, deadlift, overhead presses and rows, you'll get all the indirect ab work you'll need as the abs will be working hard in stabilizing during those movements


Ehh... I kind of disagree there. I think specific core work is great. Wheel rollouts, weighted sit ups/crunches, side deadlifts, side bends, full contact/russian twists, and back extensions are my favorite core exercises. The plank works as a good finisher to any workout.

I like to do my core work in circuit fashion with one frontal movement, one twisting movement, one side bending movement, and one back movement with about 30 seconds of rest between exercises.

Sometimes if I feel like it I will finish my strength workout with such a circuit, unless my workout is running long. I also do them on other days where I do not do a normal strength workout. I wouldn't suggest doing heavy core work within 24 hours before any heavy compounds that require core strength such as Deadlifts, Squats, or overhead lifting.

TheMachine
14-Jun-2006, 08:39 AM
Ehh... I kind of disagree there. I think specific core work is great. Wheel rollouts, weighted sit ups/crunches, side deadlifts, side bends, full contact/russian twists, and back extensions are my favorite core exercises. The plank works as a good finisher to any workout.

I like to do my core work in circuit fashion with one frontal movement, one twisting movement, one side bending movement, and one back movement with about 30 seconds of rest between exercises.

Sometimes if I feel like it I will finish my strength workout with such a circuit, unless my workout is running long. I also do them on other days where I do not do a normal strength workout. I wouldn't suggest doing heavy core work within 24 hours before any heavy compounds that require core strength such as Deadlifts, Squats, or overhead lifting.

SO your point is?

inteq9
14-Jun-2006, 10:57 AM
My point is that core training is worth doing, especially from an aesthetics point of view. If you do exercises for your arms why not target your abdominals? I've never heard anyone say, "If you do deadlifts and cleans you work your arms enough" so I don't understand why people say that about the core. I just gave an example of how to do core work.

TheCount
14-Jun-2006, 11:25 AM
Porridge!! Porridge you little runt! :D Possibly the best breakfast you can have imo is porridge. No sugar or that sort of rubbish, proper porridge. SCots Porridge oats are top stuff, 200ml milk, microwave 3 mins and your sorted. Lots of energy, good solid food, best way to start your day :D

Core exercise I think is essential for any competitive sport... tennis, football, rugby, even golf involves lots of core movement and strength. Situps, side bends, Deads, all train this. Its also how lots of martial arts throws can overpower someone larger than you... using explosive core strength

TheMachine
15-Jun-2006, 01:11 AM
My point is that core training is worth doing, especially from an aesthetics point of view. If you do exercises for your arms why not target your abdominals? I've never heard anyone say, "If you do deadlifts and cleans you work your arms enough" so I don't understand why people say that about the core. I just gave an example of how to do core work.

Are we focusing more on aesthetics or performance? Besides, if you do heavy presses and chins and rows, your arms will be developed enough. Believe me, if you're having at least 225 on your back when you squat and are pulling 35 off the ground, you'll get all the core work needed

inteq9
15-Jun-2006, 02:43 AM
Are we focusing more on aesthetics or performance? Besides, if you do heavy presses and chins and rows, your arms will be developed enough. Believe me, if you're having at least 225 on your back when you squat and are pulling 35 off the ground, you'll get all the core work needed

A: Both.

2: I wasn't talking about curls and extensions.

D: I squat well over 225 and DL more than 350 and I happen to think my core is pathetic.

TheMachine
15-Jun-2006, 03:35 AM
A: Both.

2: I wasn't talking about curls and extensions.

D: I squat well over 225 and DL more than 350 and I happen to think my core is pathetic.

Do you do standing overhead presses and bent rows?

if and if you really feel you need extra core work, overhead squats, Turkish getups and full contact twists should be your choices

Xav
17-Jun-2006, 06:47 PM
ok I spread out the exercises a bit, this is new routine

MONDAY
Rest

TUESDAY

Running + squat (5x5) + lunge (5x5) + deadlift (5x5)

Wednessday:

Military press (5x5) + Bench press (5x5) + Bent row (5x5) + Bicep curls (5x5) + CoC +

THURSDAY

Running + squat (5x5) + lunge (5x5) + deadlift (5x5)

FRIDAY

Military press (5x5) + Bench press (5x5) + Bent row (5x5) + Bicep curls (5x5) + CoC

SATURDAY
Running + squat (5x5) + lunge (5x5) + deadlift (5x5)

SUNDAY

Military press (5x5) + Bench press (5x5) + Bent row (5x5) + Bicep curls (5x5) + Power clean (5x5) + CoC

inteq9
17-Jun-2006, 07:13 PM
I think if you're doing curls you should even it out with direct tricep work. I think doing 3x10 or 3x8 is a better way to do "supplementary" exercises (isoations). 5x5 for curls and extensions will make the workout take forever and you're getting your strength from the big compounds.

Drop Deadlifts or Squats from each lower body day and alternate exercises throughout the week.

Drop Military Press or Bench Press from each upper body day and alternate throughout the week.

Alternate running days with lower body lifting days. Try to run several hours before or after your strength workout. If you must run and do weights in the same workout, run after lifting and make sure to drink some gatorade-preferably mixed with some whey or a simple carb and protein drink like surge.

blessed_samurai
18-Jun-2006, 06:12 AM
What Inteq should've said was "Man, doing 6 days of the 5X5 is whacked." ;)

Seriously, up the reps and drop the sets on biceps and add in triceps. 2-3X12-15 supersetted for time considerations twice a week for each is more than enough.

You can run your upper/lower split but cut it down to 2 uppers and 2 lowers. You might even look at Defranco's Westside for Skinny Bastards and add in a second leg day or Oly/plyo/high acceleration day.

I'd match deadlifts with front squats and back squats with RDLs. The 5X5 is fine for the first movement but down teh sets and up the reps slightly for the second movement.

Xav
18-Jun-2006, 02:22 PM
this better? only 4 days 5x5

MONDAY
Rest

TUESDAY

Military press (5x5) + Bench press (5x5) + Bent row (5x5) + Bicep curls (5x5) + CoC

Wednessday:

Running

THURSDAY

squat (5x5) + lunge (5x5) + deadlift (5x5)

FRIDAY

Military press (5x5) + Bench press (5x5) + Bent row (5x5) + Bicep curls (5x5) + CoC

SATURDAY
squat (5x5) + lunge (5x5) + deadlift (5x5)

SUNDAY

Running

iamraisen
18-Jun-2006, 02:51 PM
The quantity is too much. i think you will find it a bit too demanding to be honest


Day 1
Barbell Squat
Barbell Bench Press
DB Row
Biicep isolation work (if wanted)

Day 2
Barbell Deadlift
Standing Military Press
Dip
Tricep isolation work (if wanted. i prefer floor presses :) )

Day 3a
Power Clean
Push Press
Chins

Day 3b
Clean and Jerk
Chins


So Day 1, Day 2 and Day 3a OR 3b each week. add your CoC work in on any day at the end. i know a few people who have got good results from using this exact programme (myself included)

if you really want a 4th day try something like

Lunges
Pullups
Power Shrugs (like a normal shrug but you get momentum from your legs)
Farmers walks

harhar
18-Jun-2006, 03:14 PM
The problem with newbies is that they tend to set up this crazy routine that they think is kickass (full of compounds and large volume) while not realizing that it would burn them out in 2 weeks. I respect your determination but any experienced strength trainer would laugh at that routine.

As a newbie you have to be conservative. 5x5 is not a magic set/rep scheme. Go lighter at first.

Bicep curls shouldnt even be listed there. Its something you do at the end of the workout if you feel like it.

Xav
18-Jun-2006, 05:19 PM
The problem with newbies is that they tend to set up this crazy routine that they think is kickass (full of compounds and large volume) while not realizing that it would burn them out in 2 weeks. I respect your determination but any experienced strength trainer would laugh at that routine.

As a newbie you have to be conservative. 5x5 is not a magic set/rep scheme. Go lighter at first.

Bicep curls shouldnt even be listed there. Its something you do at the end of the workout if you feel like it.

well I have been doing the first routine I wrote down 2-3 weeks now (with around 20 kg, not sure, donmt got my weights yet, using a piece of a tree :o )

yea I am a newbie with WEIGHT LIFTING
but at the other side I am pretty strong already (I work at least 5 hours a week with axe, sometimes chainsaw). havent met any1 of my age stronger than me atm (cause in my school every1 is a nerd :P ) so I was thinking to try that routine. (if I CAN do it, it would be no harm right?)

When can I tell if I have a "burnout" and what does it actually mean!!

and why shouldnt bicep curls be listed? whats wrong with them

iamraisen
18-Jun-2006, 05:59 PM
well I have been doing the first routine I wrote down 2-3 weeks now (with around 20 kg, not sure, donmt got my weights yet, using a piece of a tree :o )

yea I am a newbie with WEIGHT LIFTING
but at the other side I am pretty strong already (I work at least 5 hours a week with axe, sometimes chainsaw). havent met any1 of my age stronger than me atm (cause in my school every1 is a nerd :P ) so I was thinking to try that routine. (if I CAN do it, it would be no harm right?)

When can I tell if I have a "burnout" and what does it actually mean!!

and why shouldnt bicep curls be listed? whats wrong with them

you may be able to do it physically, but when you get to doing them with proper weights you will not be able to perform each lift (for example squatting deadlifting and lunging on the same day) to your maximum ability

Xav
18-Jun-2006, 06:11 PM
you may be able to do it physically, but when you get to doing them with proper weights you will not be able to perform each lift (for example squatting deadlifting and lunging on the same day) to your maximum ability

aah so I should do for example day 1 biceps & legs, day 2 biceps& legs instaed of day 1 bicep & biceps and day 2 legs & legs

why didnt I think of that :bang:

blessed_samurai
18-Jun-2006, 08:48 PM
Here is an explanation of the 5X5:
(from Animal Mass (poster))
In my opinion, the best program for a wide range of athletes, from beginners to elite level athletes, women, men, anyone....

The 5X5:

Monday:

Olympic Squats 5x5 (same weight)
Benching 5x5 (flat, close grip or regular)(same weight)
JS Rows 5x5 (same weight)
Accessory (low volume triceps and abs)

Wednesday:

Olympic Squats 5x5 (reduced 15-20% from Monday) or Front Squats 5x5
Standing Military Press 5x5 (same weight)
Deadlifts 5x5 (same weight) (if you pull 2.5x bodyweight do 3x5)
Pull ups 5x5 (use weight if you need it)
Accessory (biceps and abs)

Friday:

Olympic Squats 5x5 (working up each set)
Benching 5x5 (flat or incline)(same weight)
Rows 5x5 (same weight)
Accessory (low volume triceps and abs)


The idea is simple: pick a weight you can do for 5 sets of 5, and if you complete all the sets and reps, then next time bump the weight up 5 or 10 pounds.

Before beginning the program it is important to establish 1 rep maxes for the squat, bench press, military press, and deadlift, and 5 rep maxes for the squat, bench press, rows, military press, and deadlifts.

The first week, it is important to begin very conservatively and prepare to set new 5 rep maxes on about the 4th-6th week, rather than the 1st or 2nd week. It will take some time for your body to grow accustomed to training this way, and in the beginning you’re gonna be sore as hell.

If you get all the sets and reps, then you increase the weight (5-10lbs) for the next week, and if not, you keep the weight the same.

Try and set new 5 rep maxes on weeks 4-6 for beginners , and weeks 3-4 for veterans and then move to a 3x3 for 2x per week.

Run the 3x3 for 2-3 weeks, drop the squatting frequency to 2x per week (or even every 4-5 days if you need the additional recovery), and try setting records on the 4th or 5th workout. (Also, weight increase are the important thing here).

Then cycle down to 1 set of 3 for 2 or 3 workouts, and maybe even go for a max single at the end.

So basically what you get is a 4-6 week prep phase, followed by a 3-5 week peaking phase.

One point – during the initial phase where 5x5 is being used you MUST stick to the required volume and frequency. Back off the weight if you have to, but always get in all 5 sets of 5.
__________________________________________________ _______________
Here's the original post by JS about it...

---5X5---
Monday: Squats, Benching, Rows
Weds: Squats, Military Presses, Deadlifts, Chins
Friday: Squats, Benching, Rows

Courtesy of bill starr bill starr, the greatest strength coach who ever lived, popularized this in the 70's with his great book, The Strongest Shall Survive, which was aimed at strength training for football. I believe he had essentually two different programs which both are 5 sets of 5. The first, which is more suitable for beginners, is to simply do 5 sets of 5 with similar weight jumps between each set so that your last set is your top weight. When you get all 5 on the last set, bump all your weights up 5 or 10lbs. Example for squat... 185 for 5, 225 for 5, 275 for 5, 315 for 5, 365 for 5. If you get 365 for 5, move all weights up. This is especially good for someone who is just learning a particular exercise like the squat, because the amount of practice with light but increasing weights is a good way to practice form.

For more advanced lifters, he advocated a warmup, then 5 sets of 5 with a set weight. For example, the same athlete used in the other example may do 135 for 5, 185 for 5, 225 for 3, 275 for 2, 315 for 1, then 350 for 5 sets of 5. When successfull with all 25 reps at 350lbs, bump the weight up the next workout by 5 or 10lbs.

This is not outdated, and is a good program for gaining strength. Many elite athletes still use it during at least part of the year. I in fact do 5 sets of 5 on squatting for 4 weeks as part of an 8 or 10 week training cycle. Personally, i do it 3 times a week, but most people will probably make better progress doing it 2 times per week, or even doing version 1 once a week, and version 2 once a week.

In any event i described a system in a post a while back that goes something like this:
Monday use the heaviest weight you can for all 5 sets (same weight each set)---- in other words when you get all 5 sets of 5 reps up the weight (most workouts you will get 3 or 4 sets of 5- and maybe your last one will be for 3 or 4 reps)

Wednesday use 10-20% less weight- in other words if you used 200lbs on monday use 160-180lbs on wednesday- actual amount depending on your recovery

Friday work up to a max set of 5-

In other words lets say that your best ever set of 5 is 215lbs and you used 200lbs on monday for 5 sets and 170lbs on wednesday. On friday your workout might be like this 95 for 5 135 for 5 175 for 5 200 for 5 then attempt 220 for your last set of 5.

This tends to work better as a long term program than doing the same thing 3 times a week. On exercises where you only do them once a week like deadlift you can just do the 5 sets of 5 like i described. On monday on exercises that you are only doing twice (rows) you could do both exercises like the monday workout or lighten one of them depending on your recovery ability. Be conservative with the weight when you start- that is important.

Also i have used this program VERY often with athletes and it IS result producing. However many of your gains will show up after you use it for 4-6 weeks and you switch to training a bit less frequently and lower the reps and volume. However this is one program i have had a LOT of success with. In fact i rarely if ever use it with athletes who are at the top of their weight class because it causes too much weight gain unless you severely restrict your food.
__________________________________________________ ______________
Here's how to periodize and peak with the 5x5 program....

"i do squats only. however i also do alot of other pulling motions off the floor, and these also work the legs. as far as squats monday 5 sets of five with a set weight wendsday, 5 sets of five with a weight that is 10-15% less than monday friday, work up with sets of five, going for your best set of five heres an example of how we do this...


lets say a person has a previous best of 5 sets of five weight with 300lbs, and has done one set of five with 325lbs for this person i may start with mondays weight of 285lbs, wendsdays weight of 255lbs, and on friday work up to a set of five with 310lbs, however if this person never trained this way before i would be much more conservative, more on that later then make small jumps each week, maybe week 2 use 295, 260, and 320 for the three workouts, week three use maybe 305, 265, and 330...and so on.

however keep this in mind, if on monday you cannot do all five sets of five keep the weight the same the next week, and on friday if you fail on a weight you choose keep the weight the same the next week

now, heres a few more hints, if you are not use to this sort of training and know you are gonna be sore as hell the first couple weeks, simply start more conservatively with the weight. if you are use to this sort of training, you can be a bit more agrressive from the start.

also as the weeks go by, dont increase wensdays workout as much as the other two. also some people are able to handle a heavier wensday workout than others. i have had athletes who have reacted best if wensdays workout was only 5% less than mondays weight. i have seen others who needed 25% reduction, however the average seems to be 10-15%, maybe if your new to this training start with 25% reduction then next time try 10-15% reduction.

with people new to this program i usually use it for 6-7 weeks, because we start more conservatively and it takes longer to get the benefits. with people who have done it before i generally go with 4 weeks at a time and go with setting records on monday and friday of week 3, week 4 is to try even more weight if week 3 was succesful, if it wasnt, then try record weights again. after this routine is over, we drop the frequency to about two workouts a week or even a bit less , and drop volume usually to 3 sets of 3.

the first week, we use the same weight as on the last monday of the 5 sets of five workout. this helps with recuperation. then, as in before we add weight each workout, this time aiming to break records on the fourth or fifth 3 sets of 3 workout.

sometimes we cycle on down to 1 set of three for two or three workouts, other times we have an offloading week then start with the five sets of five again.

i proably left some things out, i always seem to. however, although there are other programs that i am sure are effective, i have used alot of leg training programs and this one i know works, i have used this routine on probably over 100 athletes with success all around. it is not unusual for an athlete to increase their leg strength 100lbs in the full squat in the first six months i work with them.

now i know of other people who have tried this program on my recomendation in the track and field world, and not have the success i have had. however they always make the same mistakes, either starting on week one with max weights and not taking a week or two or even three to work up to max weights, OR, they start in on the 3 sets of 3 with too heavy a weight... you have to adjust the volume. dont be in too much of a hurry.

be content to set records on week 3, not week 1. well thats about it, but if your patient and do it right, it will be effective."....wow that was a mouthful ok, that is what i was talking about, although in that post i didnt explain a couple of things that i would like to now.

as you see from reading that, were talking about 4-6 weeks basically of a prep phase, and 3-5 weeks of a peaking phase, so its not really an 8 week program all the time. every time i write this program out, its a bit different, thats because its not a set in stone thing, but an example of a training philosophy... and it can and is altered in the details for individuals. however, there is one important point concerning what can be altered and still get the desired effects.

during the initial phase where 5 sets of 5 are used, you must stick to the written workout frequency and volume. no matter what, do the required sets 3 times a week. if you feel like your really dieing, then cut the weight back. but in the initial portion, the volume and frequency shouldnt be messed with. now, when you go to the sets of 3, you need to begin with the weight specified, and go up each workout, and you should be fairly rested each workout.

that means that you MAY be able to squat 2 times a week at this point, however you may need to squat once every 4 or 5 days, depends on the individual. also, 3 sets of 3 is a good volume for the first week of this phase, but often people react better to 2 or even one top set per workout during the second, third, or 4th weeks of this phase. during this phase, its the opposite of the first phase, he weight increases are the important thing.

take enough rest between workouts and cut the workout volume enough to assure that you are recovered enough to raise the weight. hope this clarifies a bit. the 3 day a week program i wrote was an example of a basic 3 day a week program for a relative beginner. i meant it to be done without any other assistance work except maybe abs. of course, an advanced lifter would probably not do that workout exactly as written.

as far as the "peaking" part of the squat program, i usually use this with shot-putters and athletes like that, and dont neccessarily do it with a program like the 3 day a week program, although if you were doing that and wanted to "peak" a particular exercise, it would work.

basically, if you are not going to try to peak strength, you need to be more carefull when doing the 5 sets of 5 three days a weeek, and not get the weights up so heavy that you start to overtrain... a more gradual increase in weighs is called for, and you must use a little common sense and not push so hard you need rest... when trying to peak you just push and keep pushing on the last couple of weeks of the 5 by 5... you push right to the brink ov overtraining basically, then back the volume and frequency off with the sets of 3.
__________________


You might be interested in the DFST (dual factor strength training) program.

Upper Body Workout One:
1./// Barbell Bench Press: (flat or incline, normal grip – pinkies on rings, 5x5, 5rm, 3rm, or 1rm)
2./// Board Press/ Floor Press (1-5rm usually start where you left off on bench press)
3./// Dumbell Press (flat, incline, or decline for 3x8-10 same weight)
4./// Horizontal Lat Work (Barbell JS Rows, 5x5)
5./// Shoulders/ Traps (emphasis on medial delts - Shrugs, High Pulls, Dumbell Cleans, Lateral Raises, Shoulder Horn, Face Pulls – pick 1-2 exercises for 4-6 sets total)
6./// Tricep Extension (skull crushers, French presses, JM Presses, rolling dumbbell extensions, Tate Presses, pushdowns – pick one exercise for 3x10-12)
7./// Biceps (1-2 exercises, 3-5 sets total)

Lower Body Workout One:
1./// Snatches/Overhead Squats (snatches – 1rm or 3x3 @ 75%, then overhead squat to a heavy single)
2./// Max Effort Movement: Olympic Squats, Low Box Squats, Front Squats, Deadlifts, Deadlifts off a 2-3” box, mats, or 100lb plates) pick one exercise and work up to a 1 rep max.
3./// Goodmornings (3x5 same weight or work up to 5rm)
4./// Pullthroughs (3-5 sets of 10-12, some arched back, some rounded back)
-or-
4./// Glute Ham Raises (3-5 sets of 10-12)
5./// Weighted Hyperextensions (2-3x10-12)
6./// Weighted Abs/ Obliques (5x10 total – weighted situps, ab pulldowns on high cable or with bands, dumbbell side bends, etc.)

Upper Body Workout Two:
1./// Speed Bench: Flat Bench Press, 9 sets of 3 reps w/ approx 60% of raw max, (3 sets close grip, 3 sets regular grip, 3 sets wide grip) – eccentric and concentric should be as fast as possible – push bar as hard as you can all the way to lockout as if you were doing a max weight for every attempt. – addition of accommodating resistance can be used; i.e. chains or bands added to the bar.
2./// Close Grip Bench Press (pinkies 2” inside rings– heavy work 1rm, 3rm, or 5rm)
3./// Overhead Press (Standing military press or push press 1-5rm, or 3-5x5)
4./// Dips (2 sets)
5./// Vertical Lat Work (Lat Pulldowns or Pullups – 5+ sets – if on lat pulldown use different bars and work different planes)
6./// Tricep Extension (skull crushers, French presses, JM Presses, rolling dumbbell extensions, Tate Presses, pushdowns – pick one exercise for 3x10-12)
7./// Biceps (1-2 exercises, 3-5 sets total)


Lower Body Workout Two:
1./// Cleans (1rm or 3x3 @ 75%) – drop low to catch the weight and front squat it up
2./// Olympic Back Squats (Ultra deep – ATF - 5x5 w/ same weight, or occasionally work up to a 5rm, also use accommodating resistance approximately every other week)
3./// Speed Deadlifts (conventional deadlifts for 6 singles with 60% of max deadlift. Do a single, wait about 45 seconds or a minute and then do another single for 6 singles. Concentrate on speed and form.
4./// Pullthroughs (3-5 sets of 10-12, some arched back, some rounded back)
-or-
4./// Glute Ham Raises (3-5 sets of 10-12)
5./// Weighted Hyperextensions (2-3x10-12 )
6./// Weighted Abs/ Obliques (5x10 total – weighted situps, ab pulldowns on high cable or with bands, dumbbell side bends, etc.)
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harhar
18-Jun-2006, 09:55 PM
aah so I should do for example day 1 biceps & legs, day 2 biceps& legs instaed of day 1 bicep & biceps and day 2 legs & legs

why didnt I think of that :bang:

He means to carefully plan it out if you're going to go the high volume route. Even if you can perform the routine for any significant period of time, it dont mean a damn thing if you dont improve.

You may want to use the plan that blessed posted (or at least cycle lifting percentages).

edit: No, you dont have to do percentages with bicep curls lol. Think of it as more of a beauty exercise than a strength exercise. Im not knocking it, but I do not think it deserves its own set/rep scheme.

Xav
19-Jun-2006, 10:31 AM
thanks a lot blessed samurai!!