Fear

[ladyhawk]

I found this article while looking for something else stashed on my computer and thought I would share it.

Fear-by John Dritt

As Martial Artists, most of us have experienced fear, but do we understand what role fear plays
in our lives. What are you afraid of, and what does it cost you? What is fear, anyway? This is fear as I see it.

I am fear. I am the menace that lurks in the paths of life, never visible to the eye but sharply felt in the heart. I am the father of despair, the brother of procrastination, the enemy of progress, the tool of tyranny. Born of ignorance
and nursed on misguided thought. I have darkened more hopes, stifled more ambitions, shattered more ideals and prevented more accomplishments than history can record.

Like the changing chameleon, I assume many disguises, I masquerade as caution. I am sometimes know as doubt or worry. But whatever I'm called,
I am still fear, the obstacle of achievement.

I know no master but one. Its name is understanding. I have no power but what the human mind gives me, and I vanish completely when the light of understanding reveals the facts as they really are, for I am really nothing.

You see, if you have the courage to acknowledge your fears, you will be taking the first step toward controlling them instead of them controlling you. And if you take the next step toward understanding, you will be able to move past them to action, perhaps even to achievement and success in your life that you never thought possible.

[Thomas Vince]

Ladyhawk,
I found out that one of my teenage students who I sometimes allow to read and use the computer along with others posted the reply. He did not realize that it would be marked in the way it was and we are laughing about the drama he created. It was innocent.
Anyway thank you for calling this to my attention as I need to watch what is said always.

I do beleive that the essence of martial art training is truly working through your fears. Good topic.

[Jim]

I know who John Dritt was talking about, it was Darth Sidious (kidding!)

The paratroopers have a motto 'knowledge dispels fear', this is a true saying but when you jump out of a plane it's still terrifying.

[Spike]

Anyone fancy reciting a Bene Gesserit Mantra?
It does sound very similair to John Dritt`s article

[Thomas Vince]

I tell all my upper ranks from Brown and above that fear is very healthy, it will keep you alive. In my earlier years I practiced a religion that increased my ability to perform in a violent situation. As I got older I became settled, in my thirties and now as a business owner and shortly to become a family man the idea of getting into a real scrap doesn't fit me. I now go for the idea that in ancient times the masters were considered masters because they lived beyond the age of thiry, and at that time they were either very skilled or very diplomatic or both!
Fears have changed for me, I have found a certain ease of mind in the fact that I am always prepared, mace out when I go to the cash machine, boot knife, mace keychain, loaded 9 mm in the glove box always knowing the environment and checking it twice. My fears today are more of an anxiety because I have everyday challenges in a very competitive world. What we focus on most tends to be in the forefront of our fears. If we live a life that promotes safety and awareness it creates peace of mind, having peace of mind is called harmony, having harmony in ones life bring health and happiness, not fear.
Each martial artist works through his or her fears and gets determined to acheive, the by product of achievement is self confidence because only through the deed do we gain this attribute of the self.
I have been knifed twice, you think I would learn after the first one, but the idea of being knifed again made me so angry I exploded immediatly and the knife was merely grazed across my forearm this time instead of being thrusted home into my inguinal area as before. I won the second time easily, the first time I was complicated by fear and got the worst of it even though the attacker was knocked unconscious.
I have been shot at once and had a gun pointed at me twice. Guns scare me but only when they are fired, the gun does not scare me as much as the bullet that comes from the gun. When I was shot at the bullet bounced off of a brick building and hit me in the ribs, just a small piece but it burned a scar into me and everyday I am reminded of that incident. It never pierced into the deeper flesh, it got hung up between my ribs, we pulled it out and it healed.
Men who are very large with huge muscles sometimes worry me just because of the sheer power they can have, I have to remind myself of the very large students I have had and still have and what really counts when encountering this type of steriodal maniac.
Admitting to our fears is the first step and then meeting of our fears head on is the next step. In the case of the muscle head I suggest avoiding this one if you can help it, but for the most part fear is healthy and it is what drives us as human beings to survive.

[Jim]

Yeah Tom, fear can be countered by anger easily once you get the hang of it, but if you have the chance try and use humour. It's better for you and has very good results in many ways.

[jds]

"To understand your fear is the beginning of really seeing" - Bruce Lee.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Anyone fancy reciting a Bene Gesserit Mantra?


I shall not fear.
Fear is the mind killer.
Fear is the little death that brings total annihilation.
I shall facemy fear.
I shall allow it to pass over me and through me.
And when it is gone only I shall remain.

Something like that anyway. It does actually work if you've ever tried it, just taking your concentration off what could go wrong.

[khafra]

Don't forget to turn the inner eye to watch it pass!

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Damn, knew it didn't sound quite right.

[khafra]

Pretty good. I wouldn't have remembered it exactly if I hadn't seen a parody of it last month :D

Another good way to deal with fear. Laugh.

Do they use that in Systema?

[taesujutsu]

"There is nothing to fear, but fear itself."
-----Franklin Roosevelt.

Fear is what we make it nothing more. :)

Peace,
tae

[jds]

"Fear today - Gone tomorrow"
[No joke intended]

Believe in yourself.

[TkdWarrior]

i agree with JDS fear is nothing bad or anything to be embarrased... but saying like with courage u can defeat is kind a awkward ...
to me i think it'll be the attitude rather than corauge will help u in figthing against fear..
just worth my 2 cents...
-TkdWarrior-

[jds]

"The inner self is the true self. In order to realise our true self we must be willing to live without being dependent upon the opinion of others. When we are completely self-sufficient we can have no fear of not being esteemed by others. " - Bruce Lee

Believe in yourself.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

"True courage is fearing what must be done, and still doing it."

[Thomas Vince]

Son of a "B" people let's get what you really feel and think instead of quotes from other people. It is good to be knowledgeable of great martial artists but after that you must learn on your own and have autonomy in your art. Get off of it for awhile and tell us what you think we already know what B. Lee said!

[TkdWarrior]

eh thomas... cool down man... cool down...
wat do u mean be "have autonomy in my art"?
feel my ignorance as English is not my language... it take lots of time n effort for me to write/speak Enlgish
-TkdWarrior-

[pgm316]

One has fear in front of a goat, back of a mule, and on every side of a fool
--Edgar Watson Howe

Your English is quite good warrior! Thomas is just pointing out he wants people to talk about what they know instead of using other people’s quotes.

Such as;

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain
--Frank Herbert Dune

Quotes like these sound good but I don't think they’re very helpful to anyone other than the hard of thinking. We're only human and its a natural response to feel fear in dangerous situations. I don't think theirs a lot we can do about it, wouldn't it be stupid not to be scared in a situation you could get hurt. Fear isn't all bad, its what tells us we're in danger and stops us from getting hurt. The best we can hope for as martial artists is to have enough confidence in our abilities to act in the best possible way without our fears making us go to pieces.

Fear; if allowed free rein, would reduce all of us to trembling shadows of men, for whom only death could bring release
--John M. Wilson

[Thomas Vince]

Exactly PGM. I want to read what people have to say regarding a real experience. I don't want to take time out to come into a forum that's full of quotes I could get from reading a book. I need subjectivity, objectivity and opinions from experienced people. I get really bored or annoyed with pretenders. I agree with you, fear is essential it is genetic and we cannot change it. Now if you want to mess with your body and use drugs, well than if your still alive in the morning you will probably feel like you should have had FEAR!!!!!!!!!!!
I have said it before, the martial arts is about facing our fears and working through them. The martial arts helps each and everyone of us do this. The best students are those who had a necessity to learn, not just merely having an interest. And if they came into the MA's out of curiosity they found reasons why it was necessary to continue. Some of us do not fear things because we do not have a realistic idea of what can happen. You don't really know the power of Bull until he smacks you around, then we are stupidified. But once reality is achieved we know have an intelligent fear that will assist us in reacting instead of standing in the headlights dazed and confused while the bus runs us over.

[STASH]

Amen to that.

But what about hiding your fear? I believe that hiding fear is essentially the same as controlling it. What do you guys think?

[YODA]

Hiding fear is just denial.

Fear should be felt, understood, embraced, and used as fuel.

[waya]

Fear is extremely usefull in any type of situation. It's really the only thing that will ever continue to pose a challenge throughout life. Without fear, or by trying to deny it, you could end up doing alot more damage to yourself in a fight, or anything dangerous, and most likely end up dead or very seriously injured.

[pgm316]

Originally posted by STASH
Amen to that.

But what about hiding your fear? I believe that hiding fear is essentially the same as controlling it. What do you guys think?


If you mean hiding fear from the enemy I would agree with that. Acting confident and aggressive could be enough to discourage an attacker.

In my experiences with fear I’ve found it difficult to think logically, your brain is often in a state of panic with the natural response to do something, either hit em or get the hell out of there. When it comes to the actual fight I’ve only used the more basic techniques. I don’t think you’re in the right frame of mind to use any complex techniques however well they worked in the gym. The thought of using a block to hurt them or knock them off balance just seemed ludicrous at the time, when I’ve desperately used a simple block or boxing type cover to stop a punch doing some damage. This is probably why any real fight gets so ugly.

[ladyhawk]

Does fear trigger your basic survival instinct to kick in or is it your
survival instinct that recognizes fear in the first place?

[pgm316]

Erm, thats like the chicken and the egg ;)

I think its fear that triggers your basic survival instinct to kick in, or could you argue there one and the same thing ?

[Freeform]

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=250&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

Sorry, i can't be bothered typing out my reply again, just check this thread that we 'oldie MAPers' did.

Col

[Thomas Vince]

Think about this one....

A few times I acted as I were even more afraid than I was, the attacker became more confident and not thinking I would strike, I did. Even the most cowardly of dogs will bite if you corner them and kick them enough! Fear should be used as YODA said as fuel. Fuel with intelligence! The problem with fear is people panic or they reveal what they are thinking with thier emotions or the eyes, masking our intentions should be paramount. Could point STASH!

[pgm316]

Thanks for the link freeform, some good posts on that thread which I hadn't seem being a white belt here ;)

Sounds a good tactic Thomas, pretending to be scared to create an opening for a pre-emptive attack. It would have to be done very carefully incase it backfired by encouraging them to strike earlier.

[ladyhawk]

A little over a year ago I had come home from the grocery store and was carrying bags into the house. I left my front door open to catch the breeze. I put my stuff away and was headed to the living room. As I reached the doorway to turn right an arm comes out with opened palm hand directly in front of my face. I let out a scream (which surprised me since I'm not a screaming female) anyway I snatched the person's wrist and pulled them forward in front of me and was coming up with an intended backfist to the face area. Right before contact as the face came into view I recognized it as my ex-husband and pulled my punch some while opening my hand to create more of a hard back hand slap. By now his balance was seriously disrupted and he stumbled forward crashing into a wall. He ended up with a dislocated shoulder and threatened to press charges for assult but didn't follow thru with his threat. He entered my house unannounced and univited and tried to scare the hell outta me and he should have been charged with stupidity.

That was one wicked adrenaline rush I had going on.

[pgm316]

Good one Ladyhawk, think you handled that very well! Can't believe he threatened to press charges, have you beat him up before :D

There really should be laws against stupidity, stupid people get away with all sorts. I think I'll plead stupidy if I find myself in court!

[ladyhawk]

The most I've ever done to him is to break away from a wrist grab,
pinched him on the inside of his leg to escape a controlling bear hug
from behind and took him to the floor with his finger for jabbing me in
the chest with his finger while he was trying to argue. I warned him
each time before I did anything. He is more of an annoyance then a
threat. I will attempt to regain control of a situation without causing
too much harm but I would not hesitate to defend myself if the situation
escalated.
For years his opinion of martial arts is it's nothing but violence and all
I've been doing was learning how to fight.

[morphus]

LOL - I like that, he really should be scared to death of you now!
:)

[Sean O]

You know, people say that everyone is afraid of something, but thats not necessarily true. I for one, can honestly say that I am not afraid of anything. I'm not at all trying to sound like some macho he man or nothing, me not being afraid of anything comes from me not being of death.

I thought about it, and I discovered that every fear you can think of roots at death. For example:

Arachnaphobia - Spiders, venom, death
Claustrophobia - Enclosed Spaces, lack of oxygen, suffocation, death
Xenophobia - Strangers, possible attackers, death

Some people throw the fear of public speaking in my face, but really, thats more emotional inscurity than fear.

Oh and of course, what I said up there is just for true fear. I mean, you can still be scared/startled by something, but not truly afraid.

But what about hiding your fear? I believe that hiding fear is essentially the same as controlling it. What do you guys think?

Hiding you fear won't do you any good, especially in a life/death situation. Lets say you're attacked by some punk on the street. You're scared as hell, but you don't want it to show, so you stand your ground, and tell him to bring it. He advances on you, and once hes close enough for you to fight back, you try, but your fear that you were "controlling" before now has control over you. Bad stuff eh?

Sean O

[pgm316]

Originally posted by Sean O
You know, people say that everyone is afraid of something, but thats not necessarily true. I for one, can honestly say that I am not afraid of anything. I'm not at all trying to sound like some macho he man or nothing, me not being afraid of anything comes from me not being of death.


You must be a very brave man! Aren't you even afraid of snakes? Or at night led in bed and wardrobe door is open slightly? :eek:


Hiding you fear won't do you any good, especially in a life/death situation. Lets say you're attacked by some punk on the street. You're scared as hell, but you don't want it to show, so you stand your ground, and tell him to bring it. He advances on you, and once hes close enough for you to fight back, you try, but your fear that you were "controlling" before now has control over you. Bad stuff eh?

Sean O

In a life/death situations you'd be.... well I'd be a pretty afraid, probably, I'd imagine! And would I want my attacker to know this and apear even more of a victim, or should I put on an act, hide my fear and pretend to be confident and in control of the situation. This has worked for me in various situations numerous times.

[YODA]

Lack of fear is usually a sign of a lack of life experiences.

Fear is a good thing - it's how we deal with fear that shapes us.

[pgm316]

Assuming you'd be afraid in a life/death situation Yoda, what are you thoughts on hiding it?

I've found putting on an act / acting hard / confident whatever you class it as, has helped me in tricky situations, it seems more effective than trying to deal with your fear head on.

[YODA]

I don't mean that yiou should "act scared" just because you are. That's my whole point - feeling fear is natural - dealing with it can involve not showing it - but you still feel it.

What is important is what we do in spite of the fear, or even because of the fear.

This goes much deeper than physical martial arts.

[Tosh]

I remember a T.V./video spot with Geoff Thomson.

These would be hardmen/doormen were given the task of speaking camly while he absolutely bawled them out as an aggressor.

It's funny he didn'y make any threatening body moves just stood about 5 feet away and gave them an absolute tounge lashing.

Its quite amazing some of the "hard mens" reaction.

I'm not sure though. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between nervous excitment and fear.

All those chemicals whoosing around your body as your heart rate zips up. "Fight or flight" instinct takes over without experience.

[johndoch]

Speaking of Mr Geoff Thompson I like his account of the duck syndrome. Its a good thought when writing about fear. Basically when a duck is swimming gracefully along looking real calm and still, but what we cant see is the frantic paddling that the duck is doing under the water. When face with an attacker as Yoda says we all fear and all we need to know is how to use it. So be like a duck look calm and still on the surface while your heart beats like a demented sprinter on steroids.

[pgm316]

Sorry I didn't mean to imply you'd act scared. Just wondered if you had any theories on covering up the fear.

I agree, to deal with fear goes much deeper than physical martial arts.

I think a useful exercise, is to practise techniques in a "angry" way, realistic in a way it might be done by an attacker but much different from the realistic UFC style attack. I know I’m not saying anything you won’t already know, but it always surprises me when you put a weak punch into someone in an aggressive way they often go to pieces. I think the learning to act aggressive helps you look beyond aggressive behaviour and hopefully deal with it better.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

I thought about it, and I discovered that every fear you can think of roots at death. For example:

Such as the fear of the number thirteen, fear of wedding rings, fear of the colour blue, fear of feathers? There are thousands of the things.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Nope, its not fear of their own wedding rings, but wedding rings in general.

Fear of the colour blue, there are people who fear particular colours, and will start to hyperventilate and undergo panic attacks when they see them. The same applies to feathers. Others fear computers (actively fear, not just dislike), small children, phones, pens. Trying to attribute every fear to one cause is the big mistake of psychologists. Nothing ever has just one cause.

[Sean O]

First of all, sorry that I deleted my post earlier on, it posted before I was done typing for some reason.

Nope, its not fear of their own wedding rings, but wedding rings in general.

Fear of the colour blue, there are people who fear particular colours, and will start to hyperventilate and undergo panic attacks when they see them. The same applies to feathers. Others fear computers (actively fear, not just dislike), small children, phones, pens. Trying to attribute every fear to one cause is the big mistake of psychologists. Nothing ever has just one cause.

Whatever, but I can still honestly say that I haven't found something that I am truly afraid of.

Lack of fear is usually a sign of a lack of life experiences.

That may be why, but for a 14 year old I've had quite a few scary experiences.

In a life/death situations you'd be.... well I'd be a pretty afraid, probably, I'd imagine! And would I want my attacker to know this and apear even more of a victim, or should I put on an act, hide my fear and pretend to be confident and in control of the situation. This has worked for me in various situations numerous times.

Well in your situation there showing your fear or not depends on whether you want to fight back or not. I mean if it was just some idiot saying "Give me your wallet!" Then don't show any fear and fight back if you want, but if it was a gun-wielding maniac, then trying to act tough will do you no good. I'm just saying all this because I know some people who have SO MUCH PRIDE that they would probably, in a gunpoint situation, act against their fear and fight back, but these people are also pretty stupid, so they would probably end up dead.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Whatever, but I can still honestly say that I haven't found something that I am truly afraid of.

I'm not commenting on that, you I'm sure you will. Depends on your definition of fear I guess. Anyway, I'm just trying to point out that not all fears are linked to death.

[Sean O]

Point taken :).

[LilBunnyRabbit]

And if you want some really strange stuff...

Phobiaphobia (http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/monsters/33354)

[Mike Flanagan]

Originally posted by Sean O
Hiding you fear won't do you any good, especially in a life/death situation.


On the contrary, I find that giving the impression that you are calm and confident really un-nerves an aggressor. It is not the reaction they expect.


Lets say you're attacked by some punk on the street. You're scared as hell, but you don't want it to show, so you stand your ground, and tell him to bring it.


You don't have to tell him to bring it on. I find that a calm, confident attitude, reassuring the aggressor that you're not looking for trouble and doing your best to verbally calm things down can prevent most confrontations from becoming physical. This, of course, when coupled with appropriate body language. Basically, negotiate from a position of strength.

Not only does it un-nerve and worry the aggressor, it gives him a way of backing down without losing face.


He advances on you, and once hes close enough for you to fight back, you try, but your fear that you were "controlling" before now has control over you. Bad stuff eh?


Can't say that's ever happened to me.

Mike

[pgm316]

Originally posted by Sean O

Well in your situation there showing your fear or not depends on whether you want to fight back or not. I mean if it was just some idiot saying "Give me your wallet!" Then don't show any fear and fight back if you want, but if it was a gun-wielding maniac, then trying to act tough will do you no good. I'm just saying all this because I know some people who have SO MUCH PRIDE that they would probably, in a gunpoint situation, act against their fear and fight back, but these people are also pretty stupid, so they would probably end up dead.

I agree, acting tough against a gun wielding maniac would be stupid. Acting confident is a different thing though. Its all about trying to act the best way to fit the situation. The gun one really gives you little options, like its been said already, just do what they tell you to :woo:

[Sean O]

On the contrary, I find that giving the impression that you are calm and confident really un-nerves an aggressor. It is not the reaction they expect.

I don't know, I think you and me are thinking of different types of aggressors. See, I live in Canada, and although I have seen people attack other people, it was never just some random mugging or anything, these guys started off cool, but then got pissed and advanced. In situations like these, they don't care whether you're calm or frightened, they just want to mess you up.

It's all about reacting in the same way you're feeling at the moment. If you're feeling scared, then be scared. If you're feeling confident, then be confident, it doesn't matter. I've seen people go against this and it froze em up.

Of course if it was a random mugging, then showing confidence will definately make the guy think before doing anything. We were just talking about different things.

Yeah, I know that as martial artists, we can avoid this stuff before it happens, but I've also seen people getting jumped for trying this. The attacker got pissed at the fact that the guy wasn't giving in to what he was saying, and then BAM came the punch in the head.

Acually, the tactic I've seen work every single time was to argue back, but rather than throwing insults back, just prove your point. For example, me and some friends were at the movies, and we were just chilling out in front of the ticket booth. Then a security guard comes up to us and tells us to leave. One of my friend argues that he shouldn't just pick on us, and that these two other guys, who were also chilling, had been here longer than us. Basically, the guys left for a bit, but then came back in and rushed my friend. Once we pulled them off of him, he said that he was just proving his point to the guard. They stopped right there.

You don't have to tell him to bring it on. I find that a calm, confident attitude, reassuring the aggressor that you're not looking for trouble and doing your best to verbally calm things down can prevent most confrontations from becoming physical. This, of course, when coupled with appropriate body language. Basically, negotiate from a position of strength.

Bring it on was just my way of demonstrating hiding your fear. Most people I know would probably say that.

Yeah, if you can calm him down before anything happens, then you can avoid a fight. But as pgm said, it's about acting the right way to fit a situation.

[Mike Flanagan]

Originally posted by Sean O


I don't know, I think you and me are thinking of different types of aggressors. See, I live in Canada, and although I have seen people attack other people, it was never just some random mugging or anything, these guys started off cool, but then got pissed and advanced. In situations like these, they don't care whether you're calm or frightened, they just want to mess you up.


I have to respectfully disagree. I was talking about the vast majority of assaultive situations, irrespective of whether they are premeditated or not. As you said "these guys started off cool, but then got pissed and advanced". This to me indicates that actually the intended 'victim' could have done something to avoid the situation coming to blows. The appropriate combination of a calm and polite demeanor, coupled with confident and non-aggressive but definitely assertive body language can calm most of these situations down. The assailant sees that actually you are going to be a difficult customer, but you still offer him a way out without him feeling he has to be seen to back down.

its all about failing the 'victim selection interview'. The best way to fail this interview is at the very beginning of the process. Being alert and aware will put off most potential aggressors at the outset - they'll just find a more suitable victim instead. In the un-premeditated scenario I think you're on about the same strategy still works. You're awareness and self-confidence make it obvious that this is going to be no easy gig. In most circumstances the aggressor will decide that its not worth the trouble. This isn't conjecture on my part, its a strategy I've made work many, many times.


It's all about reacting in the same way you're feeling at the moment. If you're feeling scared, then be scared. If you're feeling confident, then be confident, it doesn't matter. I've seen people go against this and it froze em up.


What's the advantage of 'being scared'? If that is evident to the aggressor then you've just made their job a lot easier. I have to say I've encountered situations in which I was very scared. I feigned total confidence. I didn't freeze up, quite the opposite. I've never 'frozen' in a violent confrontation. What's more, feigning confidence can actually make you feel more confident. So not only do you communicate this sense of confidence to the aggressor, you con yourself into believing it too - which in turn reinforces the message you give to the aggressor.


Of course if it was a random mugging, then showing confidence will definately make the guy think before doing anything. We were just talking about different things.


I don't think we were talking about different things. The strategy I've described can be successfully applied to the vast majority of potential assaults.


Yeah, I know that as martial artists, we can avoid this stuff before it happens, but I've also seen people getting jumped for trying this. The attacker got pissed at the fact that the guy wasn't giving in to what he was saying, and then BAM came the punch in the head.


No strategy works 100% of the time. Sometimes violence will occur, that's inevitable. What the martial artist in this situation should have done though was to have taken up a posture that would communicate the appropriate body language but also give them the ability to defend themselves. Obviously in this case the defence failed. I have to say as well that it depends what 'giving in' involves. If someone points a gun at me and demands my wallet, then I give them my wallet, simple as that. I don't think that's giving in, its just being sensible. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valour. But even when you act with discretion I think its best to do so with a confident attitude.


Acually, the tactic I've seen work every single time was to argue back, but rather than throwing insults back, just prove your point.


We may not disagree that much then. I don't like your wording though, if you changed 'argue back' to 'assert yourself' then I would agree pretty much with this statement. Sadly, it doesn't work all of the time, just most of the time.

Mike

[Sean O]

I've never 'frozen' in a violent confrontation.

Neither have I, but I've seen it happen to people. When I asked them afterwards what happened, they just said I got scared, and I froze. I suppose I was wrong in saying hiding your fear won't do any good, but I think we can agree that fear can't be controlled, no matter how well you cover it up. Thats kind of what I was saying when I said, "If you're scared, then be scared."

Also when I said that I was getting back to my examples. Like I said, once the violence starts, it doesn't matter how you're feeling. You may even make a wise choice if you're scared, by running. I think was sun-tse (spelling?) who said it's best to win without fighting. In this case, you get away without any bruises, which can count as a win.

No strategy works 100% of the time.

Never said there was a perfect strategy man. I also know that you can often talk your way out of trouble like that, or even if he does take a swing at you, maybe dodge it and go behind him, just to show that you know what you're doing and that he should back off. Blah blah blah I'll just get to my point.

If you want to avoid being a victim, then covering up your fear is the way to go, but once that fails, it doesn't matter how you're feeling, as long as you make it back in one piece.

Sean O

[Mike Flanagan]

Originally posted by Sean O

If you want to avoid being a victim, then covering up your fear is the way to go, but once that fails, it doesn't matter how you're feeling, as long as you make it back in one piece.


I'll agree with that. Once the fists start flying I find I don't have time to be scared anyway.

Mike

[pgm316]

You probably will feel scared, so its likely you'll only be acting confident, but as Mike said, acting confident often makes you feel more confident.

And if you are in that interview stage how you act will help. And acting confident will make you look less like the victim there looking for. Sometimes acting very aggressive back will help, especially if there looking for an easy target, because someone ready to fight back in an very aggressive way is the last thing they want, and they’ll soon more on to an easy target. Although you have to be careful acting aggressive, do it against the wrong person and it’ll be like throwing petrol on a fire ;)

[Cain]

It sure is better giving fear rather than recieving it :D

You create the fear in others.

If you fear someone then just laugh at them :D

|Cain|

[Mike Flanagan]

Originally posted by pgm316
Although you have to be careful acting aggressive, do it against the wrong person and it’ll be like throwing petrol on a fire ;)

Generally I prefer to be calmly assertive (which still can give the impression that I'm dominating the situation) rather than aggressive. But I have used raw aggression at times as well, when the aggressor clearly hasn't got the bottle to actually assault someone who is obviously standing up for themselves. Its riskier but it can work very quickly, whereas my preferred strategy can take minutes to accomplish its goals.

I find it can be difficult to judge when aggression will actually dampen things down or when, as pgm says, it will simply fan the flames. In most situations I think it will have the latter effect.

Mike

[pgm316]

Originally posted by Mike Flanagan


Generally I prefer to be calmly assertive (which still can give the impression that I'm dominating the situation) rather than aggressive. But I have used raw aggression at times as well, when the aggressor clearly hasn't got the bottle to actually assault someone who is obviously standing up for themselves. Its riskier but it can work very quickly, whereas my preferred strategy can take minutes to accomplish its goals.

I find it can be difficult to judge when aggression will actually dampen things down or when, as pgm says, it will simply fan the flames. In most situations I think it will have the latter effect.

Mike

Its very hard to say in situation A act calm and assertive and in situation B be aggressive. And I wouldn't like to attempt to teach it. Its more down to a persons ability to read the situation, more about their "street smarts" & understanding of psychology than martial arts ability.

As Mike said, being calmly assertive is likely to be you're safe bet!

[LilBunnyRabbit]

I generally go for either calm assertive or just calm aggressive or just downright scary. Met very few people I can't back down or disturb so far.

[zen_tiger_claw]

define fear: fear is the absense of truth.
i want whoever is reading to grab a piece of paper and draw...
a demon. just do it. draw a demon.

...done?
what did you draw? a big animal monster with huge wings, maybee horns and a pitchfork, huge teeth and scary eyes. lets look at that.

what is it? is it a real demon? no. it is a picture your vivid imagination came up with. maybee you saw it in tv or read its description in a book? this is not a real demon. this is a drawing on a piece of paper.

"so what, now, is a demon?"

a demon is the unknown.
"if it is the unknown, what do we fear?"

we fear the unknown.

"why do we far the unknown if it's exactly that. the unknown?"

look at this logically. when you fear something, you don't really fear "it". you don't truly "fear" anything.
you fear what your immagination is telling you will or is happening...

get my piont?

[TkdWarrior]

illusion or image?? or is it not just a perception of mind?
:)
-TkdWarrior-

[Mike O'Leary]

Here is my slant on fear and how to deal with it.

First... yes.. understand it...
second... dont use it as fuel....

In a combat situation you need to stay calm. If you use your fear as fuel it tends to still be an emotion out front.. in combat put your emotions in your pocket.. you defend best when operation from the head not the heart.
We teach and train focus remember... focus on the job at hand and leave your emotions, be they anger, fear or what ever.. leave them behind for the moment. This is probably the hardest thing for people to learn and understand. Put the ego away as well... people out there working in the trade have no use for ego..... ask them if you know any... the last person I want as a partner is somone who is not aware of himself and who has some inflated concept of who and what he really is. This by the way is one of the reasons for Psychological testing for law enforcement agencies... you dont want nor need "cowboys" out there.

Having said that I also realize it takes alot of training and time to stay calm in the midst of a serious attack. This is exactly why the military go through the amount of training they do. This is exactly why we do as much sparring as we do... so that we can beleive that even if we get hit.. its not the end of the world.

I think that there is a distinct difference in using fear as fuel and realizing that "If I dont get down and finish this he will finish me" to me one involves emotion and the other is factual reality. I work in a business that has the potential for daily violence. After 20 years I advise other staff that if you have fear that you cant put in your pocket and deal with you should leave.... if not the job will kill you. Fear grows.. it needs to be contained in such a way that it does not affect decisions and actions when the preverbial "SH&*" hits the fan.

For an example when I have someone who is extremly aggitated and yelling I need to look at this carefully as to when to shut up.. and when I can talk. Talkin at the wrong time will enrage him and possibly put others at risk. The point of the job is to minimize risk...... in all confrontations the point is to minimize risk... and I have to be aware of his emotions and where they are on the rollercoaster in order to deal appropriatly. Hopefully each interaction ends peacefully but if not.. well then we still need a clear head to move to the next level and still keep risk to the minimum.


There is no doubt that sometimes minimizing risk entails force.. now we are into "excessive use of force" issues which still means we must maintain cool heads during the conflict.

My humble opinion.

Mike

[zen_tiger_claw]

it's all three.

[Mike O'Leary]

HMMMMM its all three you say.........


you mind expanding on that a little?


Mike

[zen_tiger_claw]

talki'n to TKD warrior. fear is perception. and facts are chains that bind it.

[TkdWarrior]

<fear is perception. and facts are chains that bind it>

fear is perception of illusion/image generated by mind. facts ?wat facts?
-TkdWarrior-

[zen_tiger_claw]

do you not like me or something?

[TkdWarrior]

<do you not like me or something?>

it's not about liking or disliking but if u notice i always do this...because i m trying to understand...
is it that bad?
-TkdWarrior-

[zen_tiger_claw]

it's fine...sorry.
you probably know i'm talking about perception. you are not truely afraid of 'it', you are afraid of what you THINK is it. understand?

[TkdWarrior]

ZTGC<it's fine...sorry.>
it's ok...

<you probably know i'm talking about perception.>
Yup i do understand wat u r talking about.

<you are not truely afraid of 'it', you are afraid of what you THINK is it. understand?>
yea i think i m getting it... thnx :)
-TkdWarrior-

[kevin]

Anyone interested in a unique method for handling fears should check out the russian martial arts. ROSS instructor, Scott Sonnon has some excellent writing and video at amerross.com on what he calls "fear reactivity". Also Vladimir Vasiliev, a former instructor and operative for the Russian Special Ops, has a wide body of video and a handbook that deal heavily with this topic.

The basic idea is that every touch or hit in training has the capacity to either add fear to a partner, or else take it away. The Russian arts, like Systema, work systematically through an approach designed to help students "listen" to their partner's bodies, looking for twitching and tension and other manifestations. Through drills that involve grabbing or striking slowly and lightly, then gradually escalating to harder and harder hits, these arts build the confidence of its practitioners quickly, by guiding them past their limits. The whole idea of storing fear in our bodies is a very interesting one. Its also the basis of many negative reflexes and exaggerated reactions. For example, a knee injury can make a martialist particularly paranoid about getting hit in the leg. Alone, that instinct can be good, but it can begin to sacrifice correct body form and movement. From a Chinese medical view, you could term this a "chi blockage" of sorts. The Russian arts prioritize identifying these fears in each student, working with the instincts in a nurturing manner, while eliminating the bad at the same time. Some of the video clips at systemauk.com show punching drills and energy restorations, but this is just the tip of the iceberg.

[Candito]

"Fear is the result of common sense"

If somthing is significant enough to make you fear for your
safety in anyway, then its safe to assume that your past experiances dont add up to the opposer,
if this wasent so the sensation of fear would not be apparent in the first place.


"Fear is simply a mindstate caused by lack of control and emotions"

Only apply fearless methods if your fear is apparent when it shouldent be.

[TheBorderer]

Fair point Candito, but I'd also say fear can stem from the things you don't understand, say for example when you were a kid and saw something at night, got scared by thinking it was a monster when all it was, just shaddows from something!(Of course that goes to what TkdWarrior was saying about perception etc) You could end up quoting Yoda from Star Wars, saying that "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to ... suffereing", granted that's from a film work of fiction, but still a fair comment to make, seeing as the way I see it, sometimes fear has caused probably caused figihtin/conflict and no doubt wars. While fear is healthy as Yoda (MAP Yoda, in oeder to avoid :confused:!), I suppose it's the point where you have fear taking over your life which causes you to act badly,strangely or ends up making your health worse is what you have to look out for.

Originally posted by Yoda

Fear is a good thing - it's how we deal with fear that shapes us.

Yep, true, as do many other experiences in life... while I can't think of any nice little 'fear' related storeis to tell, I have been afarid and scared at points in my life, everyone has, even to things which others (or yourself later on...) may consider rather trivial, but as with every experience, it's what you learn from it that makes you what you are today.

[mcintyre_craig]

Fear truly is something that has to be experienced. Despite years of training in dojo's in a variety of styles with plenty of pretty coloured belts and certificates to tell me that I could fight it was not until I started working on nightclub doors and experiencing a few very real confrontations that I learned that I could control fear. It is not only natural to feel fear but completely necessary.

[flutterfists]

Natural fear, in certain situations, can save a person's life.

Phobic fear, on the other hand, can destroy a person's life.

Don't mix 'em up, guys.

[LongShot]

Fear is misunderstanding or not knowing!