Realistically, could I learn much from instructional videos?

[Alex I]

I've recently taken an interest in Silat, but I'm having a hell of a time finding people in my area who teach it. I know that learning from videos alone is frowned upon, but I can't help but think I'd be able to pick up at least a decent amount of it given my background in various martial arts over the years. I wouldn't have a problem finding people to train with, so it wouldn't be just by myself. What does everyone think about this? Are there any videos in particular that are worth checking out?

[|MT|omar]

Yeah you can learn stuff, BUT there's no one there to comment on whether you're doing it right. A trainer can tell you that you exactly what you're doing wrong while punching or kicking or whatever.

If you learn using video's or dvd's then you might pick up bad habbits

[Steve Perry]

I've recently taken an interest in Silat, but I'm having a hell of a time finding people in my area who teach it. I know that learning from videos alone is frowned upon, but I can't help but think I'd be able to pick up at least a decent amount of it given my background in various martial arts over the years. I wouldn't have a problem finding people to train with, so it wouldn't be just by myself. What does everyone think about this? Are there any videos in particular that are worth checking out?

If you are starting from scratch? Honestly, I don't think you can learn much. If you have some hands-on training in the art, then, yes, vids are helpful. You get a different angle on something you have experienced.

So much of silat is feel and you can only get so much with your eyes and ears. I had a lot of MA experience when I came to silat -- and spent years unlearning a bunch of it -- and I couldn't get it from vids.

Not to say instructional videos aren't useful. I think silat videos for newbies are good for showing you how a teacher works and moves, and they allow you to shop for an instructor or style long-distance. You might decide that a trip for personalized training is worth your while.

There are several folks here who have been involved in such things: Brother Tristan has some nice DVDs on his site; Stevan Plinck has both a Bukti Negara tape and a couple of basic Sera tapes. Pendeker Sanders offers many videos that he couples with seminar training for long-distance instruction. Paul de Thouars had a series on Bukti, eight tapes, and Victor de Thouars has a bunch. The East-West guys have some, too.

Some are better than others, production or content-wise. I favor content over the look, but I have an idea of what I'm looking at. For a newbie, looking at different styles and teachers would be of some value.

There are others, some of whom are not legit, no point in mentioning their names. Plenty others to get you started.

[Gajah Silat]

So much of silat is feel and you can only get so much with your eyes and ears. I had a lot of MA experience when I came to silat -- and spent years unlearning a bunch of it -- and I couldn't get it from vids.

Spot on about the 'unlearning' :)

Completely agree about the vids.

I think for someone wanting to start Silat who is unsure about what style of Silat to go for, they could be useful to get a feel for different styles. It also helps to visualise how we move.

However, as insightful as the vids maybe, there is no substitute for a good instructor.

So, grab a couple of cheapie dvds off ebay have a look & then find yourself a good instructor.

[tellner]

Or cut to the chase and find a good instructor. You can use the money you saved on the videos for bruise medicine for yourself and a Christmas present for him.

[Gajah Silat]

Alex are you in the UK?

[Alex I]

Nope, I'm in the US. Santa Barbara area of California to be exact.

[Orang Jawa]

Spot on about the 'unlearning' :)

Completely agree about the vids.

I think for someone wanting to start Silat who is unsure about what style of Silat to go for, they could be useful to get a feel for different styles. It also helps to visualise how we move.

However, as insightful as the vids maybe, there is no substitute for a good instructor.

So, grab a couple of cheapie dvds off ebay have a look & then find yourself a good instructor.

I couldn't agree more!
A good video is good point or reference or guidence, its an excellence way to refresh your memory or to compare and contrast your own styles of silat and others. The positive things about watching a Martial Arts video, it gave the understanding that they were many ways of doing things. But only few that would be reasonably applicable in fights.

Many of us have been in silat for many years, but yet we are still being corrected by our teacher. My teacher is very stingy, if my hand or feet placement/positioning a quarter inch is off the target, he will let me know immeditely! Here we go again, fifty years of training one to one go down the drain :)

The negative things learning from a video, it gave you a bad habbit of watching the video and copy the movements but at the same time you are not paying attention to your hands, feets, hips movements and focus to the would be attacker, remember you are now starring at the screen.

We need someone to watch us doing this thing and explain why. Every humand body have different way of doing things. With silat, we learn how to understand the technique, adjust the movement with our body capability to achieve the same objective, even though, everyone doing it slightly different. A good teacher knows this differences.

Copying the movement without understanding why we move that way, is like a blindman believe that he can walk straight line without any assistance.
Can he? Can you learn silat from video?
I could be wrong too,
Tristan

[Kwajman]

As a reference tool and an assist to your training yes, as your primary source of instruction, no.

[Steve Perry]

Nope, I'm in the US. Santa Barbara area of California to be exact.

You are within driving distance of L.A. and a bunch of silat is available in SoCal. (One of our students drives six hours to class one day a week. If this is too far for you to commute to class every week, certainly it is not so far as to go for intensives once every month or two. With hands-on teaching and videos, you are much more apt to get it right.)

If you are serious about learning, goggle "Silat California" and check out the schools down that way. There are probably more within a couple hours drive of where you are than anywhere else in the country.

[Bobster]

goggle "Silat California" and check out the schools down that way.
For those of you who aren't tech-savvy, "Goggle" is the new web browser that allows you to not only search for a topic online, but view it's contents in the same manner as you would a train wreck, or a porn movie: By goggling.

[Fireshadow]

Alex I,
Silat is in the details. You won't get these details off of a DVD. Don't get me wrong, DVD's are great for reference and videotape is great for reminding you of stuff, but the quality of your silat will be in the quality of your training. I spent many years long-distance learning Bukti Negara, and accomplished a decent level of skill. Now my original instructor has moved back to my area after 10 years with "the man". My abilities are accelerating. I would choose person to person instruction any day. I agree with what others have said about looking at video as a tool to finding a good instructor. Some videos are very hard to find....... Good luck. I hope you come across my instructors while you are searching in the LA area.
Bart

[manofleisure]

If you have zero options close to home then yes...DVD's will aide you ni the selection my a style that you might want to train in.

If you have never studied a silat system and wish to learn only in this fashion,good luck...so much of silat is the feel,flow,and exact angle or positioning that is very hard to catch on video.

You always stand to learn a trick or two though since every instructor is unique in himself.

Since we ar on this topic,I just would like to mention stay away from the old William Sanders Panther Productions series.I was able to see one of these and well,it was pure garbage.

Not a very good introduction into what pencak silat has to offer.A very good introduction as to how "not" to make a martial arts video production,this series is.

[Steve Perry]

I
Since we ar on this topic,I just would like to mention stay away from the old William Sanders Panther Productions series.I was able to see one of these and well,it was pure garbage.

Not a very good introduction into what pencak silat has to offer.A very good introduction as to how "not" to make a martial arts video production,this series is.

Probably be better to offer up some videos you thought were useful, rather than ones you didn't like. Not much point in opening up this old can of worms.

[fire cobra]

hi guys,can anyone honestly say that they have never tried a techniqe/pricipal in their gym that they may of seen in a video/dvd or even in a book or magazine article?,personally i feel that if you are already a experienced free thinking martial artist then you can learn a great deal from dvds etc,especially IF the dvds are well produced,good explinations etc etc, i mean how were martial arts concieved in the first place? :)

[Orang Jawa]

fire cobra hi guys,can anyone honestly say that they have never tried a techniqe/pricipal in their gym that they may of seen in a video/dvd or even in a book or magazine article?,

Honestly, I have not, it is hard enough learning one to one let alone doing it alone without anybody correcting you. We have a tendency to believe that we can do exactly what the video or magazine article said. The honest truth is probably NOT, have you ever video yourself doing it than compare it to what you are suppose to do?
But if you can learn from the magazine or video, than its more power to you :)

personally i feel that if you are already a experienced free thinking martial artist then you can learn a great deal from dvds etc,especially IF the dvds are well produced,good explinations etc etc,

It could be or may be....I'm with the rest of folks who believe that the video is a good refference or a good reminder for something that you all ready knows but not an expert on it. FYI, If I come home today to Indonesia and I can assure you that Pak Lek still can find some thing wrong or something that he can corrected.....and I've been learning only one system of silat in the past five decades. :confused:

i mean how were martial arts concieved in the first place? :)

Not through video for sure :)
And I could be wrong too,
Tristan

[fire cobra]

i understand and respect your views orang jawa,i have learnt many things from the spoken word,written word,and the moving pictures,i know if they are correct(for me)when they dont get me hurt in training! i have had many great teachers(and still do) and i include my students and my opponents,oh and that great teacher PAIN! he he,respect :)

[prowla]

Personally I believe that you can learn from books, videos, and even posting on MA Planet!
But not in isolation - you do need to be an active MA-ist, otherwise you won't understand how it all fits together.
If you've ever walked out of a class trying to remember what the 12.5th move in a kata was, then it is obvious that some kind of supplementary materials can help.
I've got Adrian Trimble sparring hints things, Bill Wallace stretching, some Kyukoshin kata videos, a number of other vids, Demura bo and nunchaku books, and a few bits more. They are useful.
OTOH, I've got a couple of Bruce Tegner books, and they are utter crap! They are so totally misguided in what they say that they are probably dangerous! They even recommend setting up your own club and awarding your own belts! I keep them as a reality check.
The key point I'm making is that they can work as supplemantary materials to your regular training, but are of little or no value standalone.
The good thing is that it's pretty easy to spot what is worthwhile and what is just bilge.
(I've always kept my eye open for a "Karate for Dummies" book - the title is just so daft, it's gotta be a must-buy!")

[Orang Jawa]

Harro Paul,
Congrats on your third degree brown belt. Soon you will be in Yudansha class or a Shodan. Only then you begin to learn....
On the other hand, I have seen many Shodan open a dojo with a new style and then he/she join the Martial Arts Organization and get promoted to Godan in lightning speed. Before you know it, he/she walking aroung with Kyoshi belt. :)
With respect,
Tristan

[Rebo Paing]

Hopefully we are always learning. However insight is always personal and difficult to share. The quality will be different person to person I think.

Presumably (here I go making an ass of myself again :D ) belts are a way to measure level of insight ... I have old leather belt only :cry: .

Salam

P.S. No disrespect intended ... just joking only!

[Steve Perry]

(I've always kept my eye open for a "Karate for Dummies" book - the title is just so daft, it's gotta be a must-buy!")

There is one called "Martial Arts for Dummies." Here's a link to the publisher's page: http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesTitle/productCd-0764553585.html

Funny.

As for learning from books or vids, yes, you can learn things, but it's rather like learning how to swim or ride a bicycle from a book or vid. There is a difference between knowing something with your mind and knowing it with your body. The only way to do the latter is to do it; the problem is, how do you know if you are doing it correctly?

If you learn the wrong way of fingering a guitar chord, it's no big deal, save that it makes it harder to switch to another chord down the road. If you learn the wrong way of dealing with a knife, it might get you killed ...

In a system such as silat, the principles that govern the overall way of moving are all connected. Learning a technique -- a certain block or punch -- is fine, but it isn't the same as understanding how the techniques all work together. I don't think you can get that without a teacher who knows it. Not all teachers do know it, and even some of those who can do it, can't teach it very well.

[manofleisure]

Probably be better to offer up some videos you thought were useful, rather than ones you didn't like. Not much point in opening up this old can of worms.


Sorry, I was just very upset with my purchase of one of these titles.

I do not chat online much so I did not know of this series of videos being discussed on MAP before.

Your statement does confirm that others out there agree as well.

I think it can help very much to know what titles to maybe not buy-just as witch one you might want to buy.

[salami]

...So much of silat is feel...
VERY TRUE, even if you get a technique demonstrated in front of you, once you try it you immediatly realize there's more to it than you observed


best of luck in finding a teacher