what do you think about judo using as self defense

[cryo]

I think Judo must be combined with an other stile to be of any use if someone attacks you.

[saikyou]

I disagree. But out out of curiosity, why do you think that judo can't be effective for self-defense purposes?

[Aegis]

Depends on the Judo. Some Judo is very self-defence based, and it is a good style to learn. The competition style on its own isn't the most useful self-defence art, but as you say can be good when combined with something else.

[Adam]

I agree with both Aegis and cryo. The judo I take would get me butchered if I tried to fight an attacker like in the dojo as it is heavily competition and groundfighting based. From what I've seen of judo, there aren't many people my age in the art whom I'd be truly intimidated to take on.

[cryo]

I think you can't use ownly Judo when you're defending your selfe becous most of the time you can't get a good grip on someone so you have to know a nother style to hold of your opponent till you can throw him in a way of wich you're sure he will fall and you'll be able to hold him down or to get away

[judojedi]

well its already been covered, some judo styles can be used for self-defence, indeed the nage-no-kata is very self defence orientated apart from the last two sets. competition style could still be used for defence but would greatly enhanced by the introduction of a striking art such as kickboxing or kung-fu. i think kick-boxing would suit a judoka better than karate, kung-fu or TKD.

[cryo]

why do you think kick boxing suits judoka better then karate, kung-fu or TKD. I stardet with judo and know a whole lod of other styles to and they work find by me.

[judojedi]

well i find that with judo, you get taught the technique, then modify it to your own preference(freedom). i tried karate and found it to restrictive and repetative and "you must do it like this!" attitude from the instructors. same in the other arts i mentioned. it may be the case that this is down to the individual club/style or that this method is a better way of teaching, it just don't suit me or other judoka's in the clubs i go to. kick boxing also has freedom to do the technique how you (the practioner) want. kick boxers motto : dont dance, just get the job done!

not to say those other styles wouldn't mix with judo, they almost certainly do, but if you only know judo and are looking to cross train, then kick boxing would probably be easier to incorporate. whereas if your comming from another martial art into judo, you'd have no real problem.

[hkphooey]

One of the best aspects of Judo for Self Defense is that you are applying pressure to a resistant person. You are learning aggression and are becoming accustomed to feeling another persons aggression. When contact is added into your training it makes a big difference and Judo has major contact.




Ken

[saikyou]

Originally posted by hkphooey
One of the best aspects of Judo for Self Defense is that you are applying pressure to a resistant person. You are learning aggression and are becoming accustomed to feeling another persons aggression. When contact is added into your training it makes a big difference and Judo has major contact.




Ken

yeah. also, if you can apply your technique fast enough, the attacker will not have a chance to retaliate.

[cryo]

I'm not saying Jodu isn't good for self defence (actually I think it's really good for self defence). But ownly Judo isn't enough when someone is trying to hit you between the eyes.

[Aegis]

In its original form it would be. The original Judo syllabus contained blocking, striking and the throws/locks still present in competetive Judo, as well as the ones now banned.

[Em-em]

Why would the Japanese Police force tap it as their official martial arts if they can't use it to protect themselves and to pin down 'bad people'? Judo was taught to stop your opponent at the least time as possible, not hurt your opponent. If you add kickng and punching then the real essence of modern judo will be gone.

[saikyou]

Originally posted by Em-em
Why would the Japanese Police force tap it as their official martial arts if they can't use it to protect themselves and to pin down 'bad people'?
Yes. I agree with that. The cops here in the Philippines are also using Judo as their MA. Em-em, are you familiar with the NBI Judo Club?(judo club of the cops here in the Philippines)

There are Judo Techniques against an armed attacker. check this out:
http://www.judoinfo.com/katakime.htm
and this one:
http://www.judoinfo.com/katagosh.htm

try to look for the part(on the scond link) where a judoka beats an opponent with a gun.

[Em-em]

Hmmm, must be new. Never heard, but I know that a police training academy (i dunno if it was in Laguna or Santolan) practice Karate. My dad is going to retire in the PNP force sometime soon and he was never trained in Judo.

I think the PNP should practice FMA instead. I mean just like the Jap Police Force, they used their own art.

Judo is applicable in Japan because guns and ammo is illegal in their country. Looking for a gun in japan is like looking for a pin in a haystack. . .

[TheMachine]

some technques in judo can be used for a streetfight yet of course, there are limitations. IMO, the best arts to be cross trained with judo would be boxing, muay thai, kickboxing and yaw-yan

[cryo]

I don't know how thinks are in Japan, but if you get is trubble in my courty and you ownly know Judo you don't stand a chance.

[hkphooey]

Cryo
You are are correct in some ways and you are definitely doing the right thing by questioning a system. Judo does have strikes in it, and they can be effective, though adding a striking art can make a big difference. If you don't have time to cross train, then when you have time of your own work on hand strikes, knees, elbows and low-line kicks. I always practice my striking on my own time no matter what training I'm into.

With a good Judo instructor, one not solely competition teaching, they can show you how to apply your skills to the street.

If you add kickng and punching then the real essence of modern judo will be gone.
Modern Judo? Is that the same thing as modern TKD. Used to be a combat system then converted to a sport. Kano tought Judo in its purest form and he also integrated it into self defense. Anyone can correct me on that if I'm wrong.

Just to let you know, I'm not even a Judo player. I've only had one private lesson, and continueing, and the reason I am now doing Judo is because I have stated it was a good skill to acquire many times and I finally took my own advice.

You definitely have to look at the difference between and the mat and the street, and train both ways or just one. Its all about what you want.


Ken

[saikyou]

Originally posted by Em-em
Hmmm, must be new. Never heard,
A friend told me that by the time of President Marcos(both of us where not born yet) cops are already learning judo. Maybe the club was established recently. well, im not sure about that.
Originally posted by Em-em
I think the PNP should practice FMA instead. I mean just like the Jap Police Force, they used their own art.
agree. but if you remember the thread in the FMA (the one that you started) Juramentado said that we Filipinos prefer foreign MA than our own MA.

Ok back to Judo. Here's the problem:
The majority of people only sees the sport form of judo.

[Em-em]

I thought Kano developed Judo because he saw karate and others as [very] violent sports? Sorry about that, actually I don't play Judo. I just joined one orientation and I didn't continued.

[hkphooey]

Originally posted by Em-em
I thought Kano developed Judo because he saw karate and others as [very] violent sports? Sorry about that, actually I don't play Judo. I just joined one orientation and I didn't continued.
No reason to be sorry about anything, we are all here to talk, ask questions and to sometimes disagree. You're almost there. Kano made his way through the ranks of several styles of Jujitsu, and at that time the training was hard-core no pulling punches, locks or throws, so everyone was always geting hurt. He didn't see the sense in constantly huring your training partner, because you can't train if either one of you are broke. Kano wanted a style that you could train in while still maintaining your health, as well as a system that did not rely on total strength to defeat your opponent. He wasn't a big man himself and wanted a way for smaller, and people not as strong, to be able to defend themself. He didn't create Judo to just be a sport. That is actually how they tested themsleves, by going out and challenging others.


Ken

[cryo]

I think that's happening to most of the martial arts. People are trained more and more on tournament and less onn the perpous of the art (like defending your self).

[Em-em]

what's wrong with that? :)

[Aegis]

Originally posted by Em-em
what's wrong with that? :)

Nothing if that's what you want out of the art. Everything if what you want is self defence and what you're being taught is tournament stuff.

I thought Kano developed Judo because he saw karate and others as [very] violent sports?

Just though I'd mention that when Kano founded Judo he wouldn't even have known about karate.

As has already been mentioned, Judo was modified Jujutsu (originally Kano Jujutsu) which used similar techniques, but with emphasis on throwing the opponent onto his back during training, rather than, say, face first into the floor. Essentially he created an art that could be practised at full speed by anyone, with little risk of serious injury.

[saikyou]

Originally posted by hkphooey That is actually how they tested themsleves, by going out and challenging others. And they were succesful! In 1886, a huge public match was held. The Kodokan faced other Jujitsu schools and won.

I would like to say something about atemi. Kano wanted to devise a free-fighting method in w/c atemi and throws are legal but he never came up w/ anything satisfactory. I guess it's really hard to mix throws w/ striking the way that Kano wanted it. A competition w/ a huge emphasis on throws.

[cryo]

I gues you're right about the tournaments but I still think you shoulnd traine ownly on tournaments but still keep in mind what the art was ment fore.

[Freeform]

As regards to Kano incorparating atemi into his Judo thats the route that Tomiki, a Judo Dan grade/aikido Dan grade and friend of Kano took with his Aikido system of randori in the Shodokan system.

You should watch a bout sometime.

Col

[jonsku]

Many people consider judo techniques "safe" and "non-violent", because of lack of striking/kicking etc. but I think that judo being a safe art does not make it ineffective. Of course, in dojo, when you throw your buddy to the relatively :D soft tatami, he knows how to perform an ukemi so he won't get hurt. Now imagine throwing someone who doesn't know an ukemi to a concrete.. ouch.. :D Not to mention that you, as a skilled judoka, can modify your throw so the opponent falls to his head, which may just kill him. But you can also modify the throw to be more humane, eg. koshi-guruma, where you can protect his head, but he is still going to get the wind knocked out of his lungs. In many striking arts you cannot control the power and effect your techniques like this.

just my 2 cents...
jonsku

[saikyou]

I agree with jonsku. I guess that the best throws for a street fight are hip throws(koshi guruma, uki goshi, O goshi) they are very easy to do.

Yeah, you could do some serious damage with an opponent who will land on a concrete floor and does not know ukemi.

[Freeform]

I've had great success with O soto gari and harai goshi.

Col

[Aegis]

I think the easiest and probably one of the queickest street throws is actually Ko Soto Gari. It's not a hugely popular throw in competition, I know, but on the street you can use all sorts of nasty tricks to break the opponent's balance, like grapping round the head with your fingers in the opponent's windpipe, eye socket or under the nose. Very difficuly to resist a balance break like that, anf one you have the balance the foot sweep is pretty much redundant. Just makes them hit the ground harder.

[saikyou]

yeah. a lot of guys doesnt know how to stop a reap. try not to let go of uke's arm. finish with an armlock.(only applicable if there are no other attackers)