Get your Hapkido Black Belt online!!

[MaxG]

What does everyone think of this?

http://www.thedigitalmaster.com/

If you look in the FAQ's...

"What other Black Belt Ranking is available?

You can earn World Recognized Black Belt ranking in the art of Taekwondo and coming soon, you will be able earn Black Belts in the arts of Hapkido, Shotokan, Kenpo, and many others. Plus, there will be specific Certification Courses in various skills, such as Escrima, Staff, Nunchuckus, etc. "

He has a little disclaimer about trying to find a local school but can you just imagine the breed of Black Belts that this will produce?

Another quote from the video you can download.

"Not enrolled yet?"
"Quite dreaming about being a Black Belt."
"And BECOME one"
"For a fraction of the cost of traditional training"
"Train at your own pace at your own place!"
"24/7"

In the FAQ's it even suggests you can learn without a partner.

Very very... I'm at a loss for words on how to describe this.

[Alexander]

I find it ironic that in the testimonials section someone has complimented this 'master' with the words "This is a NO BRAINER" - I think that phrase about sums it up for me.:D

[philp]

lol shocking, technically, those people that sign up to that are just as likely to buy a black belt and a gi from a martial arts store and pretend they're a bb anyway.

Hopefully they get their asses handed to them :)

[estranged13]

wow, guess i don't need Mr. Cather anymore lol

[Dr.Syn]

Hopefully they get their asses handed to them

Constantly....

[Vandaler]

In the intro longer video, he says that he answers his own phone :eek:

[armanox]

This online course was specifically designed for those that would otherwise never have a chance to learn REALISTIC and EFFECTIVE self-defense skills.

Says it all in the FAQ. They don't teach Realistic and effective selfdefense.

[Nomadwanders]

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

[Coges]

But guys, he has a photo with Pat Morita. It must be the real deal.

[Cosmo Kramer]

that's an outrage

[Tittan]

Ouch! The real difference lies in "Anybody can BUY a black belt, but not everybody ARE a black belt"

If you've only learnt from the internet, you will get your butt handed to you when you face an opponent - and we can only hope there are no deaths due to overconfidence. "I can take anything, cuz I'm a black belt!" - the worst thing you can think when facing a few thugs...

[lucas]

what no taxadermy or locksmith courses too :)

[Jointlock]

wow, guess i don't need Mr. Cather anymore lol

Sure, let me know how this works out for you. :rolleyes:

[estranged13]

Sure, let me know how this works out for you. :rolleyes:

i bet i won't get hurt as often

[Jointlock]

i bet i won't get hurt as often

You may get Carpal Tunnel from typing to your on-line instructor.

[estranged13]

You may get Carpal Tunnel from typing to your on-line instructor.

lol good one :D guess i'll go to class irl

[MasterBob]

The Master of this on-line program used to be a member of ICHF. In fact he was the Director for California when I first joined ICHF in 1993. Even though I am no longer affliated with ICHF, I think it would be wise to check this program out to see if he is offering ranking in Combat Hapkido. Especially since he is flying the ICHF logo at the bottom of his web site.

:bang:

Bob Ingersoll
Combative Arts Association

PS: Thanks to MaxG for bringing this to the attention of the forum!!

[Kwajman]

Wow, hapkido w/o a partner that would be interesting to see.

[Dr.Syn]

I think it would be wise to check this program out to see if he is offering ranking in Combat Hapkido. Especially since he is flying the ICHF logo at the bottom of his web site.



Bob Ingersoll
Combative Arts Association

PS: Thanks to MaxG for bringing this to the attention of the forum!!

The ICHF HQ was advised of this...

[dngrruss]

...and they wonder why I drink...
Seriously, this is no different from those schools that offered rank from video training. While I think that it's not nearly as productive as training with a live instructor, in some cases, it may be better than nothing. If it is your only training because HKD, or MA in general is not available in your area, then maybe this is your only option. Certainly you would want a training partner for live work and I know that there is no one there to correct your mistakes, but one can garner some small part of the training.

If you are using this as a suplement to your current training, then there might be more of a legitimacy to it. You are already in a school and have the fundamentals (like footwork) working for you and want to add to your arsenal. In that case, I can see using something like digital master.

Getting a black belt? I don't think so. It is obvious that he took a page from the McDojang marketing manuel and isn't selling MA as much as he is selling belts. That is the part that needs addressing as much as the digital training.

The ICHF HQ was advised of this...
What were the results?

[kmguy8]

the ICHF was advised of this????
what because he tried to muscle in on their own crappy online BB program...lol

***anyone hear a pot calling.......?*****

http://www.ichf.com/videos/Videos.htm#BB
scroll to the bottom of the tape
learn by DVD
test by video

[Thomas]

the ICHF was advised of this????
what because he tried to muscle in on their own crappy online BB program...lol

***anyone hear a pot calling.......?*****

Oooops, I think you made a reading error. The ICHF actually doesn't have an "online BB program", let alone a "crappy" one, so you're a bit "off" in your reply. As you mention below:

http://www.ichf.com/videos/Videos.htm#BB
scroll to the bottom of the tape
learn by DVD
test by video
The ICHF does have provisions for learning the material and testing at a Charter School under a Certified Combat Hapkido instructor or at a seminar. (You left this part out)

There is also the option of mailing in a video of you performing the techniques and being graded based on this. This choice obviously isn't the "best" way and was most likely used in the early days of setting up the ICHF when it was growing quickly and was hard to find any charter schools or seminars.

For what it's worth, I don't think I've ever met anyone who earned their rank through video testing in the ICHF and for the most part have met a great group of people and martial artists through the ICHF.

As for the video library, in my opinion as someone who watches a lot of martial arts videos, they are a great set of resources which are well made, clearly designed, and easy to use as references (best used at a charter school under a qualified instructor). In my opinion it is one of the best video libraries out there and useful for people in the ICHF and in other styles.

Anyway, if you want to check out an ICHF school, the doors are always open and there's probably something for anyone to learn. If you'd like to visit our school, let me know. Otherwise the ICHF site has a whole list of schools that would open their doors and offer you something new to experience and possibly learn.

[kmguy8]

i have tried 2 ICHF in FL thomas (one for three months.. admittedly short time.. but long enough for me to make up my mind)
the owner instructor was a really nice guy where I "gave it a shot"
so i'd rather leave his name out than call attention to him
but his techniques were awful IMHO
very unrealistic knife, poor ground game, etc...
i have also taught a ground seminar at a place in WI as an assistant
i submitted the whole class (of 12) in series with very little effort during the practice session along with my instructor
they had little abilty on the ground and over half had a shodan or better
it is not lack of experience.. rather my experience that prompts my opinions sir
along with my lack of respect for kurt's business model

oh.. and a video BB being offered is silly and ridiculous (same as online in my book).. no matter how you try to excuse it.....

I know you have a vested interest in this system.. so I'll leave it at that.. i highly doubt I'll get you to agree or conceed the org is dodgy... it might have some good independant members who are fleeing more restrictive orgs... I'd buy that.. but I'd be surprised if the org itself gave rise to many talanted practitioners....
oh, also, any org connected with canemasters....lol

[Dr.Syn]

the ICHF was advised of this????
what because he tried to muscle in on their own crappy online BB program...lol

***anyone hear a pot calling.......?*****

http://www.ichf.com/videos/Videos.htm#BB
scroll to the bottom of the tape
learn by DVD
test by video

I believe it says you can test by video..They DO NOT have an on-line program...

[kmguy8]

is there really much of a differnce now a days whether the video is learned and watched online or by shipping tapes?
either way.. you are learning in the absence of actual instruction
i see little difference.. but you are right
you can get an ICHF BB by buying and learning from DVD and get tested by sending in your tape....
is that your point...
really.. what's the differnece.. they both (internet and DVD) suck as a method to learn a MA in exactly the same way...
only the technology differs
but your right....
the technology does indeed differ....
so you have my retraction that indeed ICHF offers not Internet BB's but "send in your tape" ones..
my apologies

[Thomas]

i have also taught a ground seminar at a place in WI as an assistant
i submitted the whole class (of 12) in series with very little effort during the practice session along with my instructor
they had little abilty on the ground and over half had a shodan or better
it is not lack of experience.. rather my experience that prompts my opinions sir
As an assistant instructor at a seminar you submitted all of the students there? How is that impressive? I would hope that as a “specialist” brought in to do a seminar that you would be able to? I hope you didn’t use the introduction of new material as a competitive atmosphere just to see if you could submit them before they learned it and practiced it for a while. And, did you allow them to use the full spectrum of their art or just your specialty? :D :D

Something to keep in mind is that the ground survival program in Combat Hapkido is just that “ground survival” and probably not something that is going to win in sports MMA matches. In sports MMA, students have the luxury of training and preparing for a fairly rigidly determined set of conditions. For Combat Hapkido, we spend more time covering a wider variety of material to deal with a wider set of conditions. The downside of this of course is that we aren’t going to be specialists in certain areas and will need to use the other skills we learn to negate someone’s ground advantage, whether it is by evading, running away, using a stick or knife (or gun), element of surprise, etc. Comparing a sport based grappling program to a self defense based curriculum doesn’t quite fit exactly. We are more interested in preventing a takedown and getting out of one if we do go down, getting back to our feet and ending it or getting out of there. You aren’t going see a vast depth of submissions and ground game in the ICHF… more just escaping, getting to our feet, and getting out of there. Hopefully the chances of meeting a well trained ground specialist in a street fight should be very slim and something we aren’t going to play the same game with. Meeting someone with a few skills or a bit of background is the most we hope to face and hope to be able to get away from.

Granted, I think the ICHF sees the advantage and necessity of a ground program and is going to draw from some of the best around, especially BJJ. Our original ground program was developed by Pedro Rodriguez and was a pretty good collection of submissions and defenses in the mount, guard, side mount and defending against takedowns. Later Carlson Gracie helped revise the program a bit (and do seminars) and now David Rivas is doing so and has produced a new set of reference DVDs (which I haven’t seen yet) and will be doing seminars (I’m looking at the July one).

Long story short – put me in a UFC cage and ask me to fight by those rules against a MMA guy and I will probably lose. Put me on the street with full access to what I do and hopefully I’ll get away with minimal injury as quickly as I can. Different mindsets and tools…



along with my lack of respect for kurt's business model
Who is “Kurt”?

oh.. and a video BB being offered is silly and ridiculous (same as online in my book).. no matter how you try to excuse it.....
A video black belt program can serve a purpose, but I am not really a big fan of it. Like I said, I don’t recall every meeting any ICHF guys who earned their rank through the video program although I know guys who went to a lot of seminars to learn, used the tapes as references and eventually tested under GM P or at a school for rank.

I know you have a vested interest in this system.. so I'll leave it at that.. i highly doubt I'll get you to agree or conceed the org is dodgy... it might have some good independant members who are fleeing more restrictive orgs... I'd buy that.. but I'd be surprised if the org itself gave rise to many talanted practitioners....
I do have a vested interest. I like the system and like my instructors (and the GM) a lot. I like the resources and like the support that I get. I find it is a very good system that fits my needs, which are very different than yours.

One of the things I like in the ICHF is that there is always some development going on. I remember seeing some of the original knife defenses (from 1994 or so) and I didn’t care for some of them. A lot of that has been filtered out and replaced by material developed by people like Julius Melegrito (FMA). A lot of the earlier ICHF material has been altered based on experience and practice as well. My interest is in keeping the development going to make the art better.

As for “talented practitioners”, I’d like to think we have a good school and good people. If you are ever in our neck of the woods, drop me a line and check us out. No testosterone duels – just some time on the floor and mat and some learning and sharing.


oh, also, any org connected with canemasters....lol
Different strokes – different folks. I like Canemasters’ resources (books, videos, seminars, canes), and I really like GM Shuey (Black Belt magazines Hall of Fame Weapons Instructor of the Year 2003) a lot. He teaches well and can do what he says he can (Yup, I’ve been a throwing dummy for him as well!)

Again though, something that probably wouldn’t cut it for certain purposes, like sports MMA for example.

[kmguy8]

MMA is one of my pursuits
Krav Maga another
so not everything is through the sport lens with me
it is through the pressure-test lens
which is ideally randori and at worst total exhaustion training

I will indeed stop by if ever nearby...
in the assistant teaching situation... many of them thought they could hang
and it was after instruction during free grappling my teacher & I took them in series (you know the drill if you've ever done BJJ)

kurt, my bad.. i forgot Pelligrino's (god I hope that's right his website does not open on an intel mac running safari) first name...... sorry for the confusion

perhaps the knife I did was old then.. it looked like aikido.. ands was complete rubbish....

we'll have to disagree about the video training... and canemasters.. (btw, blackbelt hall of fame is really an advertising reward.. i would not reference it again)

all the best, boy.. you are soo damn polite.... :)

[JimH]

Black Belt by Video courses,as said,are not bad,but do not replace the human aspect.
I can find any number of styles and systems that will give a Black Belt by video,the truth is near zero ever do it and they do not pay the cost of video taping and shipping costs for each belt,to be critiqued and redone.

The video series or to Black Belt series are for,as said,those who cannot get to a certain style of training and have a partner or for those who want to use the videos to supplemnet ,keep a mental review of their techniques when not in class.
.................................................. .................................................. ...
KMguy,
Let me explain the way the Black Belt by video was used and in some cases is used by the ICHF.

In the early days to get the word out,Instructors in various styles were told if they wanted the program to supplement what they currently Taught they could apply for the video series,attend seminars and then get tested,most times by the Grand Master at or before a seminar.
These people were already teaching.
They had a student base who they could teach the series to.

Not unlike Krav Maga instructors teaching to a level below their rank,you know that right?? They attend a 3 day to one week course and are authorized to teach to phase one or two or what ever level,then advance the students as they progress.
But with krav you do not need a school or to be an instructor in anything to attend.

So this was how the ICHF began,with fully qualified Black Belts in Other System allowed to attend training,use the videos and test before the Grand Master.

Today it can be done the same way if an instructor has a school and is unable to find nearby /doable training,they get the series,attend seminars and then test as they go.

So we have shown that the ICHF uses a form of Video training coupled with hands on and a test before the GM.

Now Bong Soo Han,also had a Black Belt by video series,not for current Instructors and not coupled with seminars and not tested before him ,in person.

Krav Maga has a similar approach as the ICHF had/has,but with the exceptions mentioned above.

Students of Ed Parker Offer a series done by video only,but your black Belt is tested and given in person in front of them.

There are others in TKD and also GM Beasley and his style of JKD,who offer Vidoe Black Belt training.

So it is not bad,depending upon the need,but ,as said,the truth is not many follow through and pay for the follow ups by mail.

As an MMA person have you ever gone to an ICHF school in which the instructor is Ground based and supplements his ground with Combat Hapkido?
(Royce Gracie supplements his GBJJ with Hapkido,at Nino's Gym in California,look it up)

Just curious if you base all your opinions on what you did to people outside their chosen art,or if you have tested others in the ICHF who do ground like you and if so what were the results?
(did you submit them?)

When in Florida,did you check out Pedro Rodriquez fromerly ICHF Ground,stick and knife instructor to test his people?

Just curious.

[kmguy8]

your facts about the KM US program are off
you need a school and a BB in at least one art to attend instructor training
you go to LA and train 3 times one week each 8-10 hours a day
at the end of each week you are tested to be able to teach one of three phases.. 30% or so BBs fail this test another 15% wsh out do to injury
if you pass all three.. basic full instructor
then there is advanced training
oh, and I am not a KMWW fan...
were it up to me we'd go back to the straight 21 day training
(too hard for most school owners to be away at once)

your facts are way off there mate... way off

make excuses for the vids all you want.. no skin off my back

send me your guys info.. I'll check him out.. is it south FL?


edit - royce might but I KNOW he was at fairtex where I used to fight in SF training for thrt hughes fight... plus.. none of us should be holding royces game in anything but gi grappling up as a point of pride ;)

[JimH]

KMguy,
I called and inquired from Mr Levines organization and was told that having a school woud be best,but WAS NOT a requirement to attend the training as long as one was able to open a school and quickly form a student base.

I was also told Haganah was the same ,that you needed to have a school inplace but when I called to find out specifics I was told ,there as well ,that having a school with a preexisting base of students was good ,but you can attend training training without it as long as you develop a school and sell the videos.

I have a guy near me who got his phase one level by holding a seminar with Darren and Bas.
He has a school which has a woman teaching kids judo and a Boxer who Teaches Boxing,all this guy does is teach level one or phase one KM.
So apparently rank is not an issue.

So I am not wrong,we will just agree that what they say for marketing purposes is not what they say when you call.
They want students to attend the instruction,go out and sell the videos and materials and pay the yearly instructor fees.

[kmguy8]

. I was certified in 2001 from KM. it ran about 5K and was as desribed in my last post in LA. they really do not care about video sales.. haganah does, KM not so much.
in regards to your friend.. i can not speak to it without knowing the specifics...you can pay to ge teh tlevel one trainnig for you and your instructors at your site... it is pricey.. very pricey

in regards to school ownership... if you do not have one already.. they will let you start one.. provided you are certified to teach.... this means you have at least a BB in another art and pass level 1.. you then have to return and finish levels one and two in a years time I believe....

additionally, when you call... they might let you come to level one training.... there is no assuarnace you'll pass... i watched people fail first hand

admittedly, I have fallen away from regular contact with htis side of the program as MMA has become my main focus these days... but from what I understand.. you greatly overstate you point about their program

[kmguy8]

btw, good job on changing the topic to the cetification to teach one of my systems from the topic at ahnd.. ICHF's own dodgy policies
bravo...
still does not change the facts at ahnd...
try to go to KMWW and find a video system to earn rank
nice try....

[Thomas]

btw, good job on changing the topic to the cetification to teach one of my systems from the topic at ahnd.. ICHF's own dodgy policies
bravo...
still does not change the facts at ahnd...
try to go to KMWW and find a video system to earn rank
nice try....
Heh heh heh.... actually I think we are all off-topic considering the orginal thread was about http://www.thedigitalmaster.com/ and their online program, which niether the ICHF or KM offers.The thread http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16727 is a monster Combat Hapkido thread that gets into the good, the bad, the ugly as well as mudslinging, well thought out replies and so forth. Perhaps that might be a better spot to discuss this stuff if we'd like (and I am by no means trying to moderate, just suggesting).

Along the lines of KM though, I have had similar experiences. I met up with an instructor at a trade show (The Mega-Martial Arts Weekend in Atlantic City) and had a nice chat which ended up with me getting a nice free teeshirt and a demo DVD of knife defences. The teeshirt was nice and the knife defences were pretty good (not much different in concept than Combat Hapkido). The instructor tried to recruit me to join and offered a quick 3 day seminar to get certified as an instructor and then promised I'd be on my way to expanding my school and making lots of money. I got a few follow up letters in the mail offering information on training and on some business seminars. Techniques-wise, everything looked pretty good but business-model wise I just wasn't into the rapid learning and focus on making money and a big program. This might appeal to large schools but not really to us.

So yes, a 3 day seminar to become an instructor is different than training on your own and testing by video (or at a charter school) and is different than doing it online, but personally I don't think I'd feel good about any of the choices personally.

All the best to those that do though. :)

[kmguy8]

3 days... ********
KMWW is th sanctioned body in th US
you want to see what it takes?

www.kravmaga.com
request the info
then we'll talk
you guys and your stories.. pathetic really

[kmguy8]

hmmm... perhaps the above post could be better stated
KM has it's problems yes
it has a few orgs
the official one that is established here
mine
does NOT meet any of the descriptions I have heard here
nor does any I am aware of
and again.. the issue I raised was that online BBs and vidoe BBs are sad
and orgs that have them pathetic
if you want to change the topic and discuss KM's approach to certification
come with some data.. so far.. i have heard and seen tings I can not speak to
they sound made up
KM is not the greatest.. but it is good
i have yet to see any org do it better
honestly, MMA is the future for me
although I really enjoy KM's gun, knife and advanced work
please.. start to make sense

[Thomas]

3 days... ********
KMWW is th sanctioned body in th US
ther is an international crew trying to move into the US market
they are in court now I believe
thomas.... I am surprised to see you straight up lie
like I said.. show me a link, an ad, anything
not BS stories
you want to see what it takes?
think you could pass?
www.kravmaga.com
request the info
then we'll talk
you guys and your stories.. pathetic really
Hey, that's not called for.

You rant on about the ICHF's "dodgy policies" based on a few experiences you've had with a few schools and it's alright but when you get replies along the same lines about a system you study, it's suddenly "lies" and "BS". You sure can dish it out...

As I wrote, I met a guy at the Mega-Martial Arts Weekend and got info. I ended up throwing away the literature because I wasn't interested it along the business side and feel pretty good with the program I am with as far as technqiues go. He asked me my background and rank and about my school and told me that with a 3 day course I could become a certified instructor (I don't remember any mention of level or whatnot). If there was any lie or bs, it was from him... and I never followed up.

I do notice that on the websites, there is no mention about the length of time of the programs at all, whether it's three days or what. I couldn't find it. As far as the quality and toughness of the course, I don't know and as I said, I never followed up on it.

I am not doubting the efficiency of KM, I've heard a lot of good things. My only experience though has been very short and to the point and I felt it came off more like a business proposal to "make lots of money" instead of focuing n training (which is my interest).

Anyway, if you want to discuss, let's do so. If you want to get mad and name call and insult, play by yourself. :rolleyes:

[kmguy8]

see edited post (cross-edited I guess you'd say)
and cross-post

[Thomas]

I'll take a look and see if I have anything left from them at home and see. I don't think I do but I might be able to see which group at least.

I think the sad thing is that wherever you look, if there's money or ego involved, you can find sad things.

I like to look across my school's floor and make sure all is right there. Beyond that I take what I can get. :)

All the best.

[JimH]

KMguy,
you came on here to have a run at the video series put out by the ICHF and how it is the pot calling the kettle black.
I explained the policy of the ICHF as it is now and as it was.

I included others who have a similar approach, to allowing Black Belts to teach and promote as they go and grow,one of which was KM.

You spoke of how you went around and defeated Hapkido people and submitted them at a school,which again had nothing to do with the original post of video learning,yet you say I changed the subject,lol.

Here is a subject Chnage.

Krav Maga under Darren:

Darren ,a lawyer, went to Israel,not to serve in the military but to train under Imi.
Darren stayed in Israel 6-8 weeks and returned saying Imi tapped him to lead and carry on Krav Maga,lol.
(the Krav Darren learned from Imi was the watered down civilian Version Imi taught after he left the Military,not even the military form of KM)

Darren set out to use the Israeli Military and their combat abilities and tie that to Krav Maga and sell it.

Meanwhile Former Israeli soldiers had already been using Krav Maga in their literature and Darren felt they were taking business from him,so he sought and won the right to Own the name Krav Maga.
(even though the Israeli Courts had already passed judgement,before Darren ever went to Israel,that Krav Maga was ANY Martial Art,not just military,thus we now have Krav maga,Commando Krav,Kapap,Lotar,Haganah,Hisarduk on and on)

There were former Israeli soldiers in the US teaching years before Darren went to Israel,Instructors such as a friend of mine Rhon in New York who served in the israeli army and is Ranked as one of the Highest in Krav Maga by Imi and the wingate institute.
Yet now thanks to Darren,these men are not allowed to use the name of the art they helped to develop while serving in the military,the must change or be under Darrens control)

Darren then tried to go into Canada and applied to their courts to own the name Krav Maga in Canada,he was shot down.

Darren is trying to own the name world wide,he wants to manage the teachings of men who developed military krav maga,and he didn't spend day one in the military.

The Krav Darren teaches and markets as Israel combat proven is not even a miliatry variation,it is pure civilian usage version.

I have studied krav Maga with Rhon,a person Darrens people call a relic in the krav Community,lol.
I have studied Commando krav,Kapap and Lotar,I have the Fight/Haganah materials and none of these Military Kravs are anything like the modified version Darren sells(I have Darrens Materials as well).

Yet you come on here and blow off Combat hapkido because they did not do well against your MMA/Ground grappling.

How do the members of Darrens KM do against your ground grappling?
Then how do the members of Moni's combat Krav do?
(Big difference in what is taught as Moni's people have a ground game)

Combat hapkido is similar in scope and technique to what the former Military men of Krav teach,which is more stand up jujitsu based,which is where hapkidos base is from, and is where the foundations of WWII combatives is from which is also similar to Hapkido and true Military krav.

You didn't just come on here to speak of Combat hapkido and the black Belt series,as I expalined ,you came on to blow off the people who study it.

Sorry on the street no one wants to go to ground and submit the attacker,play on the ground stay on the ground.

[kmguy8]

i too have trained with rhon....
your story of darren is one sided and hotly contested by LA's version of events
having studied with both camps (blickstiens here in miami & Rhon)
I can tell you LA has their house in order
franchised schools I will conceed can indeed suck
mostly the ATA program schools from what I have seen
they had a joint program launched years ago and still have not weeded the weaker ones who do not update or continue training with LA out as of yet....

I did blast ICHF because someone said they were reporting internet mcdojo man in the post to them.. this tickeld my funny bone since they themselves have a vidoe BB program

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree....
I can vouch for KM (both camps dispite what they say about eachother)
I have tried Combat Hapkido in a couple locals.,,,, it sucked (not just the ground game as I mentioned earlier.. read)
perhaps they too have good training to be had... I simply have not seen it.. maybe thats like visiting two poor KM franchises and making an opinion about KM from it...
perhaps...
my comment however about the idea of an online BB program as somehting to be embarrassed by is still true
your "on the ground" saying.. sucks btw...
you need both games.. anyone who doesnt have them.... has huge wholes in their game.
(FYI, KM LA has a BJJ black belt teaching ground,, and Bas working with program development.. they are ok on the ground... better than most styles I'd say. til not great admittedly w/o cross-training)

i think you & thomas are mcdojo runners myself, I have no proof.. but you sure sound like it..... I could be wrong... but that's my conclusion so far...

edit - i missed the stament about darren calling rhon a relic... I have spoken to darren about rhon, dave, moni and rick on several occasions... he has never once uttered an ill word.. not once.. you sir.. are quoting hersey I am certian is untrue publicly... either that.. or you are simply a liar (which I would not find surprising)

[JimH]

quote KMguy,
i missed the stament about darren calling rhon a relic... I have spoken to darren about rhon, dave, moni and rick on several occasions... he has never once uttered an ill word.. not once.. you sir.. are quoting hersey I am certian is untrue publicly... either that.. or you are simply a liar (which I would not find surprising)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well KM,I have posted my views on Darren and his role in KM on about 5 other web sites and when I mention Rhon,all of Darrens people say the same that Rhon is a Relic in KM and does not fit Darrens vision,they say it in the US,Canada and Europe.
Now if it is not said by Darren or top people in his org,who tells people in different countries about a guy in NY??

Yes sir I must be a liar.
.................................

quote KMguy
your story of darren is one sided and hotly contested by LA's version of events.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gee I wonder why it would be contested by LA,Darrens HQ,lol

Here is an interview with Darren from USA dojo
(they must be biased as well)

http://www.usadojo.com/take-action/petitions/darren-levine-interview.htm

.................................................. ......
quote KMguy
i think you & thomas are mcdojo runners myself
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
well here is a definition of a Mcdojo:

McWords applied to martial arts and a pejorative term used by some Western martial artists to describe a martial arts school where image or profit is of a higher importance than technical standards
..................................
Now to me,Thomas and I train in a CH school,we have both put in near a decade with the ICHF and we are still students and assistant instructors.
(thomas came to the ICHF with Black Belts in various aspects of Hapkido,i came in with Black Belts in TKD and Hapkido and various experience and we are still at assistant instructor level)

You have told us you did 21 days to become an instructor in KM and that some do three day schools and advance by phases till an instructor.

Which of the two sounds like a Mc Dojo to you??/lol,lol,lol.

How do you advance to an Instructor in MMA???
Please tell us,lol,lol,lol.
(NAMB MMA certified instructors is what a 6 day,8 hours a day course??,lol.)

Yes Thomas and I are Mcdojo runners,lol,lo,lol.

You paid $5,000 to take the instructorship in KM,how much is your payment to the org per year to stay on the role as a legit instructor??

When you speak of McDojos and handing out instructorships for the money look no further than the orgs you are in or the mirror.

[kmguy8]

thats not an interview with darren...
he never gave that interview
those are questions
not answered ones...
look carefully..
ask rhon - he'll admit darren never gave that interview
it is quite well known...
in terms of other websites.. i can not speak to that.. or exlplain their views

knowing both parties... there are hard feelings about business matters between people who uesed to stay with oneanother when in town.. friends once
rhon's camp (due to superior legal manuvuering of darren's camp) is the more bitter.. understandably... it is a shame really

I sir have been a student of MA for over 25 years myself..
KM is not my only gig.. but it is a good one
I do not have a MMA instrcutors license - I have an MT one and a D1 wrestling background

over the years I have done judo, karate, I was a collegiate wrestler D1, I have MT bouts, MMA bouts, and BJJ comps under my belt.... I do not need to prove myself to some loser running a kids program teaching an art with a online BB program

an org is an org.. KM has a good program.. i teach it
I train and fight MMA.... I do not hide behind stripes onmy belt (although I have a few) because of a KM cert... I'd wipe my behind with it
I put myself and my skills to the test in a ring or cage
I have no doubts about what I do....
if I were you.. i would


and.. since this has turned into a personal thing in a thread where it need not be... I will not reply.. so.... you "sir" may have the last words if you wish....

[JimH]

Quote KMguy
your "on the ground" saying.. sucks btw...
you need both games.. anyone who doesnt have them.... has huge wholes in their game.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I Train in Hapkido and reality based Self defense which includes BJJ and MMA aspects.

I train so as not to be taken to the floor.
If I were to end up on the ground I train to get up and carry on,not stay down and try to submit a person on the ground in the street.

I train for Self defense and enjoyment of the art,no trainer of true Self Defense advocates going to the ground in the street and or staying there to submit.

I do not train to fight a UFC guy,or an MMA guy,I train for the street attacker who does not spend his money to train at Gracie Jujitsu or Matt Thorntons Straight blast,I train for the junkie,the gang banger the people who assault people on the street.

My ground game is do what ever I have to do to get back to my feet as fast as possible.

My fight game is to end the confrontation in seconds not minutes,not pin and hold for 20 minutes till the clock runs out or exchange kicks and move out ,punch and move out giving the opponent a chance to exchange and engage me,as no ref is gonna lift my hand in the street award me a title a belt , points or a trophy,my reward is going home.

To you my Ground saying sucks,to me it is why and how I train,not to go to the ground.

[JimH]

quote KMGuy
i have tried 2 ICHF in FL thomas (one for three months.. admittedly short time.. but long enough for me to make up my mind)
the owner instructor was a really nice guy where I "gave it a shot"
so i'd rather leave his name out than call attention to him
but his techniques were awful IMHO
very unrealistic knife, poor ground game, etc...
i have also taught a ground seminar at a place in WI as an assistant
i submitted the whole class (of 12) in series with very little effort during the practice session along with my instructor
they had little abilty on the ground and over half had a shodan or better
it is not lack of experience.. rather my experience that prompts my opinions sir
along with my lack of respect for kurt's business model
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes Sir you are right this was never personal it was just a reply to topic,right???

Thank You for the Last word.
(Feel like I am on O'Reilly,lol.)

[MasterBob]

When I posted the infomation regading the digitalmaster web site, I never ment to start a mugslinging contest towards ICHF, Krav Maga, or any other system. Since I no longer have any affliation with ICHF, I felt that since Master Johnson's web site was flying the ICHF logo, an ICHF member should step up to the plate and investigate as to whether or not ICHF is aware of the what was being advertised.

Since running a school full-time doesn't allow me the opportunity to check in with Martial Arts Planet on a regular basis, I was both suprised and disappointed with what I have been reading. Time to move on folks.

Bob Ingersoll
Combative Arts Association
Defensive Arts Academy
Seaside, CA

[Thomas]

For the sake of honesty I do have to retract my statements about Krav Maga, everything I said was true except that the organization is not Krav Maga, instead it is a group called "F.I.G.H.T. Haganah", another Israeli defensive art which I believe is similar and/or has similar roots as KM. I finally dug out some of the material they gave me. In the time since I looked at it (a couple years ago) and then responded here I got them confused over the name (especialy with everything else going on at the Mega-Martial Arts Weekend) and for that I humbly apologize and retract what I said.

My apologies to all involved as well as my resolution to look twice before I comment.

i think you & thomas are mcdojo runners myself, I have no proof.. but you sure sound like it..... I could be wrong... but that's my conclusion so far...

Heh heh heh... think what you will.
You are more than welcome to come check out my school any time and train for as long as you'd like, we can even make accomodations for the weekends. If you'd like to, take a long read through my journal and a look through my photo album to see what I do.

I don't hide anything and I am pretty sure that what I do is pretty far beyond "mcdojo". That's a pretty easy word to sling around, but I doubt if your use of it will make anyone respect you any more than most people already do here. :rolleyes:

You did say:
and.. since this has turned into a personal thing in a thread where it need not be...
and I really wish you didn't feel the need to make it personal against me. Honestly, I think I've been pretty polite and cordial and tried to keep the discussion going without bashing you. Perhaps you'll do the same?



When I posted the infomation regading the digitalmaster web site, I never ment to start a mugslinging contest towards ICHF, Krav Maga, or any other system. Since I no longer have any affliation with ICHF, I felt that since Master Johnson's web site was flying the ICHF logo, an ICHF member should step up to the plate and investigate as to whether or not ICHF is aware of the what was being advertised.
Thank you, MasterBob,
I did pass on the info to the ICHF but haven't heard anything back. Personally I really don't care who this person is and what he is doing. He has a whole lot of "federation badges" at the bottom of his page and who knows if he is still a member of them or what, if any, connection there is. So he is an ICHF black belt... I don't care. He's not offering online ICHF belts... he's offering his own style.

[kmguy8]

For the sake of honesty I do have to retract my statements about Krav Maga, everything I said was true except that the organization is not Krav Maga, instead it is a group called "F.I.G.H.T. Haganah", another Israeli defensive art which I believe is similar and/or has similar roots as KM..

thanks for the retraction. I know Mike (he is just 45 minutes north of me) and he is agreat MAist... and a not so great businessman. His DVDs are OK.. the knife one is excellent. He has been trying to knock off the KM model for some time. I know he used to use Blackbelt ads primarily for exposure... haven't picked one up in ages.. so I am not sure if that is still his main vehicle... anyway.. thanks fo rthe retraction


You are more than welcome to come check out my school any time and train for as long as you'd like, as I have said before, When I am in the area next I will be happy to do so. Thanks for the invite.

That's a pretty easy word to sling around, but I doubt if your use of it will make anyone respect you any more than most people already do here. :rolleyes: hmmm. this stung. First, unless ther is some popularity poll someplace I am unaware of in some hidden thread... you sir presume to have our finger on a pulse that is vvery difficult to measure. I can see whay this would be true of you.. or any other in the ICHF org... but.. really... that's a presumtion of a sizable proportion on your part


and I really wish you didn't feel the need to make it personal against me. Honestly, I think I've been pretty polite and cordial and tried to keep the discussion going without bashing you. Perhaps you'll do the same?


well, ok. I'll even offer my retraction. I have no idea if you run a McDojo. And I'll go a step further: Thomas, I offer my apologies for assuming that because I have low opinions of your ORG that you suffer all the faults I have seen in them thus far. I am sorry for that.

and as I had no intention of returning to this thread... this time ... I mean it... I'm gone

[Thomas]

thanks for the retraction. I know Mike (he is just 45 minutes north of me) and he is agreat MAist... and a not so great businessman. His DVDs are OK.. the knife one is excellent. He has been trying to knock off the KM model for some time. I know he used to use Blackbelt ads primarily for exposure... haven't picked one up in ages.. so I am not sure if that is still his main vehicle... anyway.. thanks fo rthe retraction
You're welcome.
Like I said, I thought the material was pretty good, I just didn't like the business model, there seemed to be some potential for abuse (as in unscrupulous people getting quick certification just to make quick money ala "McDojo" ). I didn't look at any schools though so I can't make any evaluation of the system or schools. The guy I spoke to though was very nice and we had a great chat. I'm just a bit red-faced about mixing up the systems though!

well, ok. I'll even offer my retraction. I have no idea if you run a McDojo. And I'll go a step further: Thomas, I offer my apologies for assuming that because I have low opinions of your ORG that you suffer all the faults I have seen in them thus far. I am sorry for that.

and as I had no intention of returning to this thread... this time ... I mean it... I'm gone
Thank you very much. By the way, if you are reading still, I offer my apologies for any offences given.

All the best!

[JTMS]

[QUOTE=kmguy8]MMA is one of my pursuits
Krav Maga another


Thats kind of funny! I have several professional trade mags that advertise Krav Maga instuctor certification courses (for big bucks) that are done in JUST ONE WEEKEND!! In short stop pointing fingers.

[hapk1do]

I think that the best that Video/DVD oriented instructional courses do is give you a mental picture of what good, or bad, techniques look like in practice. However, I don't see how Hosinsul could be practiced without a partner and at the same time warrant an actual ranking in HKD. It sounds pretty far-fetched to say the least. There are allot of good GMs and Instructors that have put their stuff out there in Video/DVD format, but online HKD courses, aside from the other arts available?... Well that just sounds ridiculous to me. :confused:

However... It's not surprising at all. There's people out there that make up their own martial art and claim to be the supreme grand master of the Universe just to mesmerize people and get into their pockets. There's also guys out there that claim to the be the founder of martial arts that they are in no way even rightfully ranked in as an effort to make money. pffft.. humorous, but its true. :D