Shaolin Monks & Meditation

[prospero]

I know there are a lot of adherents to Shaolin Kempo here, as well as USSD, what with the China Trip and whatnot, so I felt this would be the best place to ask this. I've heard a lot about how meditation helps the Shaolin monks manage pain and improve their accuracy and martial arts skill. What type of meditation do they practice?

[Shotowarrior]

They practice sitting meditation, or insight meditation.

[fightingninja2]

I know there are a lot of adherents to Shaolin Kempo here, as well as USSD, what with the China Trip and whatnot, so I felt this would be the best place to ask this. I've heard a lot about how meditation helps the Shaolin monks manage pain and improve their accuracy and martial arts skill. What type of meditation do they practice?

Dont tell me you are going with ussd to the temple?
If you test with them its in the parking lot of the hotel.
My buddy was so pi$#@$ off when droped $350 for black belt and was told he would test at the shaolin temple.
For $4,500 you can go to china first class and train at the shaolin temple and have 2000 left over.

[DAnjo]

I know there are a lot of adherents to Shaolin Kempo here, as well as USSD, what with the China Trip and whatnot, so I felt this would be the best place to ask this. I've heard a lot about how meditation helps the Shaolin monks manage pain and improve their accuracy and martial arts skill. What type of meditation do they practice?


First off "Shaolin Kempo" has nearly nothing to do with the Shaolin Monks (except commercially). Secondly, the current actors playing Shaolin Monks, have nearly nothing to do with the originals. Thirdly, ther is much dispute as to how much martial arts influence the original Shaolin monks had,

"The Chinese brought Kung-fu to the Shaolin temple and, before that, it had already been practiced throughout China for hundreds of years. I want to make it clear that I'm not saying kung-fu did not exist at the Shaolin Temple. I believe kung-fu was practiced there. In the evolution of Kung-fu, however, Shaolin Kung-fu holds little importance. Shaolin didn't even develop its own style. What is really ridiculous though, is to pretend that Sholin is the birthplace of Kung-fu. It is time to stop calling what may be a grandchild the grandfather."---Adam Hsu "The Myth of Shaolin Kung-Fu"

[Colin Linz]

I think there is one thing that the Shaolin Temple was responsible for, it may not have developed the concept originally, but it did play a significant role in its development in China and Japan. Prior to the Shaolin Temple adopting martial arts training as an adjunct to their meditation it was practiced only for its fighting abilities. The Shaolin Temple developed the significance of training as a form of Budo. Practitioners were not only fighters, but were also on a path of self-development. This is the concept that legitimised martial arts training in the eyes of society in general. Before the concept of Budo martial artist were generally street thugs or just military personnel. With the advent of Budo martial arts training took on a higher purpose and society recognised this development, this is when society started respecting and valuing martial arts training instead of fearing it.

[KenpoDavid]

I know there are a lot of adherents to Shaolin Kempo here, as well as USSD, what with the China Trip and whatnot, so I felt this would be the best place to ask this. I've heard a lot about how meditation helps the Shaolin monks manage pain and improve their accuracy and martial arts skill. What type of meditation do they practice?

You can find DVDs demonstrating the "Muscle Tendon Change classic" (yi Jin Jing) and I believe Yang Jwing-min (YMAA) has books about that and the Marrow Washing classic, both forms were taught by Da Mo at Shaolin (according to Yang).

[prospero]

Wow! Thanks for all the responses.

I am aware of the parking lot thing, I'm going for the experience of going to China, and to the Shaolin Temple (where we actually do go). Plus, we DO actually test with the monks, albeit at the hotel.

Last, is it zazen?

[onyomi]

Try doing the "Lying Arhat" exercises of the Yijin-jing to increase your tolerance for pain!

[prospero]

That sounds interesting, where can I find some information on that?

[airweaver]

Secondly, the current actors playing Shaolin Monks, have nearly nothing to do with the originals.

lol they must be good actors to fake smashing metal bars on there head, and leaning on a staff with there throat hmmm.

[Colin Linz]

lol they must be good actors to fake smashing metal bars on there head, and leaning on a staff with there throat hmmm.

They are just Circus tricks like Fire Walking, anyone can do them. One of my son’s friends learnt how to break arrows with someone pushing the pointed end into his throat at a one day self image seminar. I do respect their athleticism and gymnastic abilities though.

[DAnjo]

lol they must be good actors to fake smashing metal bars on there head, and leaning on a staff with there throat hmmm.


I agree with Colin on this one. Their acrobatics are the same thing that you see with the Chinese Opera, i.e., Jackie Chan and Sammo Hung etc. The tricks are just like the circus tricks. Hey, I was taught how to break bricks when I was 11 years old. It has nothing to do with real martial arts. In fact, it's an old con. In Ancient China, those roving martial artists that went around to impress the locals with their brick and board breaking and other "Chi Gung" demos were know as "Village Boxers" by the legitimate martial artists.

[DAnjo]

I think there is one thing that the Shaolin Temple was responsible for, it may not have developed the concept originally, but it did play a significant role in its development in China and Japan. Prior to the Shaolin Temple adopting martial arts training as an adjunct to their meditation it was practiced only for its fighting abilities. The Shaolin Temple developed the significance of training as a form of Budo. Practitioners were not only fighters, but were also on a path of self-development. This is the concept that legitimised martial arts training in the eyes of society in general. Before the concept of Budo martial artist were generally street thugs or just military personnel. With the advent of Budo martial arts training took on a higher purpose and society recognised this development, this is when society started respecting and valuing martial arts training instead of fearing it.

Colin,

Very good point here. I think that you're right about that part of it as far as it goes. Da Mo well could have brought the fighting arts of India to China which was evolved into some of the Chinese Boxing we know today. How true this actually is, I don't know. But if so, the Indians hold their Kalari Payatu practice as a religious excercise also and this influence was probably infused into the Shaolin through him.

[dianhsuhe]

Breaking bricks is an old con eh? How big is the stack of "con" bricks? 2 or 3? 7-8? Is it a trick that only goes so far?

If breaking bricks is a "con" there are a LOT of people who cannot pull it off well at all-

Have you broken bricks Danjo?

[John Bishop]

Breaking bricks is an old con eh? How big is the stack of "con" bricks? 2 or 3? 7-8? Is it a trick that only goes so far?

If breaking bricks is a "con" there are a LOT of people who cannot pull it off well at all-

Have you broken bricks Danjo?

There are trick breaks, and some legit breaks. But a lot of people take the short cut and learn the trick breaks. Bricks are not that strong. If you drop one on pavement, it will break. Now how strong is that? If you use spacers, you only have to break the first one and then you get a hammer effect going on the next ones. Or, you hold one end of a single brick and rest the other end on a concrete slab like your porch or patio. Now just before you strike it you turn the hand that is holding the brick so the end resting on the concrete raises off the concrete. This is done quickly as the striking hand moves up and then down, so nobody looks at the hand holding the brick. So when the brick is struck, it slams into the concrete floor, and is basically broken by the concrete floor, not the hand.
And then there are the guys who bake boards so they are more brittle, or actually pre-cut them a little. Or the guys who buy "seconds" at the brick yard. The cinder blocks that are the last ones poured and have a heavy sand content, because the sand has settled to the bottom of the container holding the mixture. They're pretty easy to spot, since those breaks usually generate a pretty good dust cloud from all the sand in the blocks.
And then there's ice breaks. Some people saw the ice, and then let it freeze over. They have to be really careful, because sometimes just the weight of the ice itself will cause it to break before they can go thru the whole "meditation, screaming, and striking" show.
But, like I said there are some legit breaks that require a lot of skill and training. But those people are not in the majority.

[DAnjo]

Breaking bricks is an old con eh? How big is the stack of "con" bricks? 2 or 3? 7-8? Is it a trick that only goes so far?

If breaking bricks is a "con" there are a LOT of people who cannot pull it off well at all-

Have you broken bricks Danjo?

Yes I can break bricks. I can also bend a 60d nail in half with my hands into a horseshoe. I've also bent horseshoes in fact. The thing is is that there is a technique for all of it. It doesn't make it easy to do, per se, but it doesn't make you full of "Chi Power" either. It certainly doesn't make you a Kung Fu expert and a great fighter to be able to do this sort of thing. That's how I meant it when I said it was a "con". You'd have guys traveling around breaking boards etc. and performing other circus like feats and say that they were proof of expertise. The fact that these traveling Shaolin use this stuff in their show (along with a whole pantomime re-enactment of their betrayal by an emperor) makes them performers/'actors. If that's somehow offenseive to those that have bought into the whole modern Shaolin thing, then I'm sorry but that's how I see it.

[Doublejab]

They probably meditated as I understand thats part of a budist monk's religious duties. They used their kung fu to fight people with. Practicing forms, doin press ups and sparring make you good at kung fu, meditating does not.

[prospero]

Lying Arhat? Anyone?

[kickingfist]

Wow! Thanks for all the responses.

I am aware of the parking lot thing, I'm going for the experience of going to China, and to the Shaolin Temple (where we actually do go). Plus, we DO actually test with the monks, albeit at the hotel.

Last, is it zazen?

Prospero, their is a 9th degree grand master from villaris in california master armen heroian he charges $150 for groups and a private lession once a week and he will teach your private lession himself.818-957-7544
www.villarisonline.com