Recommend some GOOD Aikido DVDs?

[Tomiki Ryu]

Just started Aikido a few months ago and was wondering if anyone could recommend some DVDs on the subject. I think it would help alot to watch moves over and over as technique is everything in this style. Thanks a bunch for any input.

[Freeform]

PM Tintin, he's a Shodokan (Tomiki) Aikido Instructor, he should be able to help you!

Colin

[aikiMac]

Haven't seen any Tomiki/Shodokan videos. Haven't seen a great many aikido videos at all. The general aikido tapes that I like a lot are Robert MacEwen's "Dynamic Aikido" series and videos of O-Sensei.

MacEwen's aikido is rough. The dude is trying to hurt people. I might even call it aiki-jujitsu, not aikido. But his moves are very believable. He does everything slow, then at real speed. And his "fast" is a realistic fight speed. You'll come away believing that MacEwen can actually make his stuff work against anybody. Black Belt Magazine endorses one of his tapes with the statement to the effect that, "These are the best weapon disarms that we've seen on tape." His disarms were pretty cool when he does them full speed.

[David]

Nobody mentioned Aikido Babes from Mars!

Sorry, it's a time of the day thing...

Rgds,
David

[Zeezu98]

I am also interested on picking up some good Aikido tapes or DVDs, the problem is that there are so many and I am really affraid to spend money on something that is not good quality or good technique. The other problem is that these are expensive, I would appreciate if anyone knows where I can get them cheap
thanks

[nonono90]

I would suggest checking out George Ledyards dvds and computer manuels. He's a 5th dan, very good at teaching. I have not actually seen the videos but have taken classes from him. I am sure they are top notch. He has a powerpoint containing slides with technical descriptions, videos, and diagrams. As well as a self defense oriented video they shows aikido techiniques applicable to low level force defensive tactics. The sites www.aikieast.com.

[Zeezu98]

thanks nonono90, I looked through the site, I could not locate information on how to order the videos and the powerpoint files, I am interested on them as well. I will see if I can send them an Email...thanks

[Aiki_Ninja]

Of course there are the tapes done by Tomiki, Obha and Nariyama found on Aikidojournal.com here -

http://63.90.120.212/catalog/productdetails.php?code=t34

One can also order tournament and training videos from the JAA/USA here

http://www.tomiki.org/videos.html

Hope it helps.

[Peter Brown]

I would like to recommend visiting thewww. kyushinkan.com web site to watch the trailer oF the Taisabaki DVD.

[aikiscotsman]

I prefer videos with lots of KOKYU and extension.
[cut]

[nickh]

MacEwen's aikido is rough. The dude is trying to hurt people. I might even call it aiki-jujitsu, not aikido.

Hi,
which aspects of it would make you call it aiki jujutsu?

[philipsmith]

We have a couple of basic Aikido DVD's available. "Basic Aikido" by Philip Smith 6th Dan Aikikai and "Taisebaki" by peter Brown 5th Dan Aikikai.

For the first go to www.renshinkan.co.uk and for the second to the kyushinkan aikido dojo website (I dont know the address). They can both be ordered over the net (I think) and cost £10.00 & £15.00 respectively.

[aikiMac]

Hi,
which aspects of it would make you call it aiki jujutsu?
That he was there to fight. His tapes are well made and his moves are believable and an aikido person can identify the individual techniques, but, he was there to fight and to hurt people. That was plain from the tapes. He's aggressive and rough (and very skilled). It's that combative edge that I associate far more with aiki-jj and JJ than with aikido.

[kiaiki]

Fighting and causing pain are part of some styles of aikido and may be very close to aikijujutsu - but are still aikido as taught by O Sensei. I haven't seen MacEwen's aikido video but the title is the same as Shioda Sensei's classic on Yoshinkan aikido so maybe it is this style? If so, expect full on hard style techniques with a ready appplication to the streets. What style does he use?

[aikiMac]

What style does he use?
Nihon Goshin Aikido. (http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10766)

[SmilingBear]

aikiMac,

Thanks for posting the link to the other thread, I really didn't want to re-hash it here. Whether NGA style is Aikido or Aikijujutsu is pointless he said, she said discussion. Let's just agree it's not O'Sensei's Aikido.

As for MacEwan being there to fight and hurt people, Goshin translates as self-defense, and that's what the tapes are designed to show. NGA practitioners can do the flowing graceful stuff too, but feel that's just a means to the practical application (self-defense) ends. Anyone who is interested in NGA can PM me (I'm probably the most regular NGA contributor here) or start a new thread that doesn't merely rehash the old one. The Association's official website is www.aikidoinc.com, but it's being updated as we speak so I'm not sure what you'll find there, or how long it will be valid.

--Bear

[kiaiki]

Checked out the website and it leaves me cold. Looks like a guy decided to invent his own stuff. No problem with that - anyone can do it and it doesn't mean it is either good or bad. You can't judge an art from the website.

I could invent a bastardised composite of different martial arts or SD fighting arts tomorrow. If it works, nobody can complain and I will expect to ee it flourish. However, if I use the reputation of past masters to establish my credibility instead of relying only on my practical success, then I deserve to have that thoroughly investigated. Why would I need to quote a lineage if what I did was so good that it would gain in reputation anyway?

What makes me sceptical is the text referring to the founder and his links with 'Daito ryu Aikijitsu'. Just what is this? I've never heard of it, so please enlighten me as I am open to new info. The only similar art I recognise is Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu. If he wants to use 'lineage' to estabilsh credibility then this makes me naturally sceptical.

[SmilingBear]

kiaiki,

Honestly the website leaves me cold too. It provides minimal information, but is a valuable forum site for NGA practitioners. Making a judgement of lineage based on how something is spelled is sort of flimsy. There are multiple spellings (most probably errors) when Americans try to translate kanji characters, particularly if one is a visiting serviceman interested primarily in the jutsu, not an emigrant seeking the DO.

Kitaro is a well known student/assistant of Takeda so the lineage clearly goes back to the art you are familiar with. You're entitled to be skeptical if you like, but at least make a reasonable attempt at investigation before making inflamatory statements.

My personal opinions follow (I don't speak for the NGAA):

No one in the NGAA claims that NGA is O'sensei's Aikido. In fact there is little to suggest Morita ever trained in Mainline Aikido. More than likely NGA is a Daito Ryu derivative that took on a DO extension as well. Morita was a (younger) contemporary of O'sensei so the name was not nearly as entrenched and associated with the Ueshibas as it is now.

I don't know what motivations or politics might have been involved in the selection of a name. The reality is that Ueshiba's version has proven more popular and has now become synonymous with Aikido, much like Vaseline is synonymous with Petroleum Jelly or Kleenex with tissues (at least in the USA). But NGA practitioners consider the art we train in to be a valid expression of Aikido, just not the most popular version.

NGA, as taught today, has probably drifted somewhat from what Morita taught, and even further from any Daito-Ryu based similarities with Mainline Aikido. Shihan Bowe's time under direct NGA instruction was limited, and he has extensive experience in other MAs and western Boxing which clearly influenced his interpretation and transmission of NGA. But the drift in the art is probably no greater than that in Mainline Aikido, as evidenced by the obvious differences between Ki-centric, and jutsu-centric styles.

It's unfortunate that semantics continue to drive a wedge between what should be sibling or at least cousin arts. But the wedge is on the Mainline side only, every NGA practitioner I've ever met has had nothing but respect and admiration for the Mainline styles.

--Bear

[nickh]

kiaiki,

Making a judgement of lineage based on how something is spelled is sort of flimsy. There are multiple spellings (most probably errors) when Americans try to translate kanji characters,



I believe Kiaiki's concern is not about the "jitsu" vs. "jutsu" spelling, but rather the word aikijutsu as opposed to aikijujutsu.

I'm not saying that this is the case here at all, but it has been my experience that people attempting to reverse engineer a classical martial art do the following two things:

1) They perform the techniques (judo, aikido etc.) harder and more combatively.
2) They change the -do suffix to -jutsu (or -jitsu).

Step 2 usually works (e.g. kendo ---> kenjutsu; judo ---> jujutsu; kyudo --->kyujutsu), but aikido is the one instance where the algorithm falls down. The parent art was aikijujutsu, not aikijutsu. Semantics? Perhaps! :)

I know nothing about this particular martial art and like I said, I have no reason to imply that there is anything wrong going on. In fact, if you can trace his lineage back to Takeda as you say then that seems fine.

But hopefully this helps explain why some people are suspicious when they hear of an art called aikijutsu.

The "jutsu" vs "jitsu" thing is a different matter and worthy of its own thread.

[aikiMac]

It's unfortunate that semantics continue to drive a wedge between what should be sibling or at least cousin arts. But the wedge is on the Mainline side only, every NGA practitioner I've ever met has had nothing but respect and admiration for the Mainline styles.
And I anticipate that the wedge will always be there so long as the NGA side remains unsympathetic to the complaint that the Ueshiba side is making. We're "cousin arts," so to speak, in that we both descended from Daito-ryu. Ueshiba created something new and different by adding his own things to Daito-ryu. Everyone knows this. He gave the new thing a name: aikido. Everyone knows this. The NGA person created something new and different by adding his own things to Daito-ryu. No problem there. And he gave his new thing a new name too: aikido.

Oops. The same name. He picked the same name that Ueshiba picked earlier in time. That is the problem. That is the only problem so far as I can discern. That's the only problem that I have, I assure you. But it's a huge problem. Until the leadership of NGA appreciates that this is a huge problem, and makes a change, I expect that at the group level there will always be a wedge between us cousins.

[SmilingBear]

Originally posted by Nickh:

Step 2 usually works (e.g. kendo ---> kenjutsu; judo ---> jujutsu; kyudo --->kyujutsu), but aikido is the one instance where the algorithm falls down. The parent art was aikijujutsu, not aikijutsu. Semantics? Perhaps!

I'd say it's still semantics and typos, but I can see the point you're making. Of course there are those that argue that DR aikijujutsu was an arbitrary name change to DR jujutsu and that the latter is what should really be considered the parent art (also semantics in my opinion).

Unfortunately, ours is a small (numerically) arts with limited exposure internationally. Master Nara retired in 1975 (I believe he is now deceased), the association contacted his daughter several years ago and, to the best of her knowledge, NGA was no longer being taught in Japan.

--Bear

[kiaiki]

In case I'm thought to be being too pedantic here, remember who is making the claims.

(I have primarily studied Shudokan Aikido ( hard style with Yoshinkan roots) and have been lucky enough to experience DR Aikijujutsu with Okabayashi Sensei. (His website: http://www.izzy.net/~dsharp/Okabayashi.htm)

I'm certainly no expert but will obviously be sceptical of claims which raise questions in my mind.

If you claim a powerful lineage I don't see how you can come up with such a weird name for the art which, by definition, you know well. As I said, it doesn't mean I should think anything less about the quality of the modern art being offered, but it rings alarm bells which might make me look elsewhere for a teacher if I was seeking a style to learn and starting my search on the web before visiting clubs.

There are three root methods within Daitoryu I am have heard of :

DR Aikijutsu (with a focus on strong atemi)
DR Aikijujutsu (a softer and less 'martial' development of the former, useful for older students, blending atemi with aiki timing)
DR Aikinojutsu (relying primarily on aiki timing).

Source: Shiro Omiya in 'THE HIDDEN ROOTS OF AIKIDO'. He is very precise in his desciptions and I don't buy the idea that such an ancient art would use names sloppily. When it comes to modern Aikido I agree it's anyone's guess what you will find at club level under a given name.

There is, as far as I know, no such art as DR Aikijitsi - I'm happy to be corrected.

If this is the case I can't see that any student would be so careless with an art they studied in sufficient depth to claim it as an influence - especially as this may be deemed pretty insulting to the Takeda clan. Any website aimed at the MA community can't afford to make such mistakes as it is bound to raise the kind of response I had.

Sorry if it unintentionally offends, but the website message gets obscured when such things arise. Maybe a good idea to get back to the website authors and ask them to clarify it? :)

[nickh]

Of course there are those that argue that DR aikijujutsu was an arbitrary name change to DR jujutsu and that the latter is what should really be considered the parent art
--Bear

I'd have to agree with you. The change from Daito-ryu jujutsu to aikijujutsu seems to have happened as recently as 1922. The reason is still uncertain although some say that Sokaku Takeda did it on the advice of Morihei Ueshiba and Onisaburo Deguchi.

I'm often accused of being too pedantic when it comes to differences in spelling. I blame it all on my chemistry profession, where a single letter makes a huge difference :)

[Dave Humm]

Just to be purely flippant and contribute nothing to the thread in gneral but...


I've decided to teach "Mickey Mouse Ryu-ha-ha Aikijujujitsudo" And my teacher was a cartoon mouse.

Here's my Soke-shihan-kancho-doshu-Sensei to prove it !

http://www.usja-judo.org/users/judo.stamps/PZ-MA331.jpg

[kiaiki]

nickh - If Shiro Omiya is correct in his book (and he seems to have the experience etc to back it up) I don't think the name changed in the way you describe, but perhaps there was an evolution in styles which meant that new names had to be created to identify the differences. All three names (see my last posting) seem to have been used for different methods within Daitoryu, rather than being interchangeable or being derived from each other: aikijutsu, aikijujutsu and aikinojutsu would therefore be similar to the differences in yoshinkan, traditional and ki based aikido.

I know the 'i' and the 'u' are next to each other on the keyboard, but I would still have been extra careful on the website not to mix up terms which are at the very essence of what I claim to offer.

Dave - nice style, could catch on - is it good to duck when doggie style is on offer? :)

[Dave Humm]

...is it good to duck when doggie style is on offer? :)

Soke-shihan-kancho-doshu-Sensei says that it isn't a good idea unless your willing to accept ushiro irimi waza :eek:

Dave

[kiaiki]

Now, I've seen something about the hidden lives of the Samurai which included this one. No videos to recomment though! Isn't that a tanto technique? :)

[Shinkei]

For the Tomiki/Shodokan stylist I can recommend the three video's by KOA video featuring Dr Lee Ah Loi.

Video 1 features Breakfall, Unsoku, Tandoku Undo, Randori No Kat, Randori No Kat Ura Waza, Randori applications, Shichihon.

Video 2 features Koryu Dai Ich, Koryu Dai NI, Koryu Dai Yon, Koryu Dai Go. All these various koryu no kata do not feature weapons

Video 3 features the 50 techniques of the Koryu Dai San thes include Tanto Dori, Tachi Dori, Jo Dori Jo Nage, Kumi Tachi.

We are awaiting video 4 that will feature the Koryu Dai Roku.

[SmilingBear]

Kiaiki,

I'm only responding because I see our messages passed each other out of order and I don't wan't you to feel I'm ignoring you. The weekends are for my kids, so now my post is even later.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but messages that start with any form of perhaps you don't know who I am... and then lead into a lineage and training history are a little annoying. Pedantic isn't the word I'd choose, condescending is. On the other hand, you raise a valid point about the sloppiness of the website. Shihan Bowe has no interest in it, and the students who maintain it aren't professional web administrators and sometimes it shows.

Anyway, I have no problem with skeptics, and if you feel the naem is that big an issue so be it. What I find interesting is that the only one's who seem to care are relatively low ranking Westerners. Neither of us were there when these names were being chosen, and neither of us know how Ueshiba and Morita fealt about it. What is true is that the Aikikai is a large multinational corporation that has as yet not seen fit to raise the issue with the NGAA, despite contact between the two groups (initiated by NGAA members) seeking to clarify the lineage question. If the Associations want to argue it out then fine, until then I see no reason why lowly practitioners (such as myself) should squabble about it. Most of this has been said in the other thread, and I don't want to hijack a thread about videos any further.

I should also say that I don't see a wedge between all practitioners of the arts, just a vocal minority who seem to want to apply their Western interpretation of Japanese honor and obligation to the situation. NGAA members have interacted with various Aikikai Shihan (not me personally so I won't name names) and they have been nothing but respectful of our art. Many indicating that they knew of Morita, or had trained with him, and thought well of him as a martial artist.

This whole issue reminds me of an argument I saw at my kids daycare. The first kid had an apple, was enjoying it and showing it off to people. Everything was fine until the second child produced an apple. Suddenly the first child didn't feel his apple was so special anymore, and started to cry. Funny how 3 year olds and 30 year olds can be so similar. Maybe the first kid would have been happier if the second called his apple a pear. :)

--Bear

[Dave Humm]

...This whole issue reminds me of an argument I saw at my kids daycare. The first kid had an apple, was enjoying it and showing it off to people. Everything was fine until the second child produced an apple. Suddenly the first child didn't feel his apple was so special anymore, and started to cry. Funny how 3 year olds and 30 year olds can be so similar. Maybe the first kid would have been happier if the second called his apple a pear. :)

--BearI think it's important to always remember that we don't actually 'argue' here but essentially debate our opinions (unless of course there's some form of physical or definitive proof of what we say)

The aspect of 'names' of our chosen discipline is of course a passionate issue with many of us, much the same I suppose as the name of our local football team and who and what that represents to us. And no I don't wish to debate which football team invented "football" despite the word "football" appearing in almost every team's name.

Dave

[SmilingBear]

Didn't say anyone here was arguing,

The kids at the daycare center were though. All I'm saying is that there are parallels in the logic and level of discourse that the issues engender, which is why I'm done talking about it.

--Bear