I need your advice before my friend joins this local TKD school and I need your help!

[AIKIDO_WORKS!]

I know nothing about TKD and I don't want my friend to go to a mcdojo (God bless whoever coined that phrase, it's a classic!), so I basically need the TKD TEN COMMANDMENTS!

THAT'S RIGHT FOLKS! I NEED 10 WAYS TO KNOW IF YOU'RE ABOUT TO SIGN UP IN A TKD MCDOJO!

I expect the replies to have a little humor, yet give vital information at the same time! Come on my fellow TKD posters! 10 ways to know if the dojo, teacher, or TKD style being taught is inferior! This is important, because the lessons costs $100 a month! Thanks in advance!

[teacher]

Aikido there is a red button called search at the top.
Type in mcdojo there was a thread recently "what is a mcdojo" I think.
very funny stuff in there.
Perhaps TKD people can add specific TKD warnings.

[Kof_Andy]

-If they start talking how good they are, and putting other school/styles down.
-If they offer no free introductory class
-If they own multiple branchs, is a big sign of mcdojo. One head master cannot manage so many different school
-If they have a 9th degree master for advertising, and you never even see them much
-If they got awful blackbelt with no skill/discipline
-If they over charge for promotion test
-If they force you to buy too much equipment at the beginning. It is usually provided till your ready for your own set
-If the instructor is under qualify. Find out what degree and union his in
-If they do too much forms. For example 80% of time on form is too much.
-If they try to make huge curriculum, to make it look like they teach a lot of stuff
-If have a lot of belt system. For example yellow strips, red strips, and ended up with like 16 belts. And they charge you for every test. haha
-If the instructor are knowledgeable in TKD fighting system, I know a lot of TKD mcdojo claim they teach TKD, and use TKD form as cover up, but teach something else.
-And lastly check what kinda of car he drives. haha If he try a nice car better start waving. I myself drive a rolling trash can, along with some other teachers.:( We dont make squat. Students pay to maintain the school, we dont get pay much.:P:Angel:

[AIKIDO_WORKS!]

Thanks you guys! Knowledge is power! Also, I'm gonna search for mcdojo now! I chuckle every time I think about that name!

[flyingblackbelt]

the best way to be sure is to find out how long it takes, on average, for people to get their blackbelts. if it takes 4-5 years then you dont really have to worry, if on average it takes less than 3 years though, it is definately an mcdojo, and remember, use average, not specific examples because there can be many different and special individual cases.

[Kof_Andy]

Thats not entirely true flyingblackbelt. You can't really tell if is a mcdojo just by asking how long it takes to get black belts. Some mcdojo drag the promotion longer so you stay longer, especially if they know some people have there black belt as goal. Or some school let you get black belt sooner, since they charge like 1000+ for black belt test. Anyway back to the question, some people maybe just a gifted martial artist thats works hard and try hard, so test time will be a lot shorter. In Korea military, people are graduated as black belt after half a year of training.

[AIKIDO_WORKS!]

I found the mc dojo thread and I couldn't stop laughing! Wow, somebody in that thread actually typed "would like like fries with that black belt!!!" LOL!!! Do you think that their is a way to crack down on mcdojos?!

[Artikon]

Nope, not unless governments pass legislations about proper certifications. Right now anyone could go to a local martial arts store and buy a black belt and open a school, just cause they feel like it and they think they have the background after watching all the Bruce Lee, Jean Claude God Damn, and Steven Segal movies

[Chazz]

I would agree with most of Kof_Andy's post except for:
"-If they do too much forms. For example 80% of time on form is too much."

some traditional school do work mostly on forms. I dont know what the % is but there are a lot of true TKD school that do more forms than fighting.


"-If have a lot of belt system. For example yellow strips, red strips, and ended up with like 16 belts. And they charge you for every test. haha"

I dont know about all TKD schools but 90% of all the TKD school ive been to use the stipe system. (yellow belt, yellow belt w/stripe, green belt and so on) but if they have a HIGH number of belts then i would be worried. Such as white, yellow, orange, green, blue, purple, brown, red, black with stripes in between, then ide say that was a lot of belts.

[KickChick]

Choosing a Tae kwon do school or any ma school for that matter is no diff than any other business. Some are good, some are bad and others are middle of the road.
But as a consumer and prospective student you need to beware, as most States (as Artikon pointed out) don't regulate martial arts schools so you won't know who is reputable and who isn't.

You need to do your research. Prepare a list of questions to ask. Make sure that the school you choose can help you to meet your goals.... (whatever they are)
You need to "drop-in" unexpectedlyand view a class in session. If you are not allowed to observe any classes--walk out!.
Don't judge the school by the rank of the instructor.... or their nationality.. (ie. Korean) He/she may be a fantastic practitioner but have no talent for teaching.
Look at the students to determine if the instructor is able to pass on the knowledge. If the higher-ranking students look sloppy, cross this school off your list!!

[Thomas]

When you go and observe the class (or better yet, try it out for a few classes), here are some things to look for:

(1) What is the ratio of student:instructor? Lower is better. How much time do you see instructors or senior students working with lower ranked ones?

(2) Watching students' techniques... do they look crisp and effective or sloppy and weak?

(3) Does the instructor capture your attention and explain things so you can understand them? (GOOD)

(4) Does class begin and end on time? (GOOD)

(5) Is there a lot of unneccessary noise such as laughing, talking, and playing during class? (BAD)

(6) Do the instructors and/or students work on techniques or try to fix things even during break times and after class... are they constantly trying to get the most out of the time? (GOOD)

(7) Look at the students... are they well kept (clean uniforms/clothes with no rips, trimmed hair, etc.)... this is a sign of morale and pride.

(8) How does the instructor answer your questions about the school? More specific is better. Do the fees and training costs
seem fair?

Those are just a few things I look at when I go into a dojang...

[KickChick]

Originally posted by Thomas
When you go and observe the class (or better yet, try it out for a few classes)

... and you shouldn't have to pay for a trial!

[Xia]

Observe the class yourself, first you have to know Bruces' ways.

[Thomas]

Originally posted by KickChick
... and you shouldn't have to pay for a trial!

Good point... in my personal opinion, good schools tend to be pretty confident that they are good and tend to allow people in for free looks.

Also, take a look at some of the training costs threads here (just do a search) and also check around the area (call if possible) to find what the average training costs are. That'll give you an idea how the cost rates.


Side note to Xia: Are you refering to Bruce's ways as in Bruce Lee? I would be curious to know which "ways" you mean in helping choose a good school.

[Xia]

Thomas would you like me to start a Thread, or tell you in a reply?

[Thomas]

Originally posted by Xia
Observe the class yourself, first you have to know Bruces' ways.

This is just a pretty vague thread. You could probably clarify it with a reply.

How would you decide whether to join a particular school or not?

[Xia]

First and foremost you would have to read "his" original 18 pages, of JKD.

Then you could decifer, whether it follows his teachings, and like we said make sure you try it out first.

Second, make sure you have a "box" as explained in his writings and allow youself to break it, thus JKD is not good in circles of people. You must teach yourself with some guidence.

I don't feel like saying anymore...etc.

[Thomas]

Originally posted by Xia
First and foremost you would have to read "his" original 18 pages, of JKD.

Then you could decifer, whether it follows his teachings, and like we said make sure you try it out first.

Second, make sure you have a "box" as explained in his writings and allow youself to break it, thus JKD is not good in circles of people. You must teach yourself with some guidence.

I don't feel like saying anymore...etc.

It's pretty fascinating that you post a lot of replies, and most of them very short and cryptic... usually opting for replies that don't answer any sort of question or ones that are intended to start an argument or trivialize someone's bad situation.

And yet, when someone asks you to clarify a vague remark you made to an honest person's question, you have the gall to spew out some condescending remarks and then say "I don't feel like saying anymore..."

Here is a piece of advice for you: if you really come to this site to share your knowledge and share other posters' knowledge, you may wish to try to contribute truly or at least read without offending. I say this honestly because i think that if you continue in this style, then many posters will just ignore EVERYTHING you post... that is sad because then there will be one less voice that is heard.

[imawimp]

if your free uniform comes with a black belt......

it might be a mcdojo.

[AIKIDO_WORKS!]

Originally posted by imawimp
if your free uniform comes with a black belt......

it might be a mcdojo. LMAO!

[Thomas]

It's been a bit since you posted the first one on this... what has happened since then? Did your friend check out the school and if so, what did s/he think?

[dojangwarrior]

aikido-always, always, read that fine print if there's a contract. Some martial arts studios are shying away from the contract...my instructor lets me pay by the month because he says that if you don't want to be there then he doesn't want you there. He has a pretty large school though and can afford to do that. Some smaller schools need to rely on some sort of income and have you sign a contract. If your friend does visit a school and have a trial period just make sure to have them look over the contract very carefully. Ask questions like, what if I get injured and have to be out for a month? Does my contract get extended? (just one of my personal favorites because I was locked into a year contract and I busted up my knee and was out for about 2 months and my contract was extended for 2 months into the new year).
Just something to consider...hope it helps!

[Andy Cap]

For some martial artists, their school is their income so they depend on your tuition. With that said - what DWarrior said is so true. Contracts are a way of locking people into a situation. Heck my old instructor had people paying for class that hadn't been at the school for over a year. He went one further and had students thathad been with him for over 20 years, signing contracts!! As you could imagine those students were helping with the instruction of the school as well. Just be careful about what you agree to. People go into a martial arts school very excited and ready to sign their lives away, but many find very quickly it is not for them.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

I would agree with most of Kof_Andy's post except for:
"-If they do too much forms. For example 80% of time on form is too much."

some traditional school do work mostly on forms. I dont know what the % is but there are a lot of true TKD school that do more forms than fighting.


yeah, they are called mcdojos

[estranged13]

yeah, they are called mcdojos


no i agree with Chazz, in the right setting, they aren't McDojang's.

the other thing that you have to be aware of is some people label places McDojo's if the intructor has a style that THAT person can't handle. Or use it as an excuse to drop out if they are lazy themselves.

[booksie_girl]

yeah, they are called mcdojos
It's not necessarily a McDojo, just because it's not the type of training you are looking for.

[Taliar]

GO AND HAVE A LOOK FIRST.

You'd never buy a house or car without having a look first, so why start something that will hopefully become a big part of your life without doing some research. If they don't like you looking then it's probably not a good school. Ask why you can't watch though.