About systema

[Hector Smith]

Somebody included a link that took me to the home page of Systema. The master of this style is Vasiliev.I will definitely investigate this art, but I have my doubts.
Here what I could find on their site:


"If you're using strength, you're not doing Systema," Vasiliev admonishes a student"

Sorry I don't buy that! The reason why I'm better at fighting than a 5'6" girl is because I'm 60 pounds heavier in muscles.


"Techniques are usually practiced slowly. practice just has to be slow otherwise we can't see what's going on, we can't learn. "

Sorry again, you can train all the years you want in sprinting the 100 dash in 15 seconds that won't make you run it in 9'78. Train fast, be bad for months and eventually become good. Train slow remain bad for ever.

I'm not saying that this "Systema" is bogus, but the feeling I have from their site is just plainly bad and it looks like the latest magical bullet. Fluidity, blah, blah. WOuld it work in front of Ken Shamrock? Because if it doesn't why bother? In case you wouldn't know it's always 6'3" guys who want to mess with you, not dwarves.
Hector

[47Ronin]

send me the site I would like to see it.
regards,
Max

[RobP]

I think the best way to have your questions answered is to say "go along and try". That will give you a better idea than anything I say here.

My own experience was almost 20 years in Chinese martial arts. When I trained with Vladimir he controlled me easily - though I'm taller and heavier than him.

Slow training helps you learn - how fast did you go in your first driving lesson?

Magic bullet? Well it's just been announced by the Russian Minister of Justice that the top level government bodyguard groups are training in the System, so the Russian military seem to have no problem with it. The main teachers all have extensive backgrounds in that environment. A lot of experienced people train with Vladimir, so I guess they are doing something right.

Ken Shamrock? Oleg Taktarov did ok in UFC from what I remember.

But as I said - best way to get your questions answered is go along and see, you should find they will be happy to answer anything you want to know.

cheers

[Hector Smith]

What RobP says makes totally sense, of course all these people who train in the Systema and who are probably more experienced than I am can't all be wrong. So I'll have to check it myself.

47Ronin, here's the link: http://system-chicago.com/

Thanks again all of you for your input
Hector

[mild7]

systema actually seems quite ok.

personally i'd never do it though, but that's me. I just prefer the fullcontact sparring method, hence my involvement in BJJ, judo, muay thai(i also have a lot of time on my hands for crosstraining).

put it this way; I would'nt mind if someone I cared for trained in Systema, provided he/she understood the limitations of Martial art and did'nt run around trying to disarm gun-wielding attackers.


just something interesting to note, Royce Gracie, perhaps the most proven warrior of modern times, also generally practices moves quite slowly. You need to to this first to get the technique right. After a while it is no probs doing it fast, but don't force the pace or it becomes an athletic event.


Also, Taktarov did so well in the UFC not because of systema, but his sambo training. While I still maintain systema is a VERY useful tool, I seriously doubt it would be of much value in a UFC fight.

[Hector Smith]

Mild7 you make me want to check BJJ.
H.

[Hector Smith]

OK. I've checked BJJ. It's seems to be a fine art that involves a lot of grabbing and ground fight. Not really what I'd like for self defense. I'm 5'8" lean and in very good shape at 180 pounds, no fat, which makes me stronger than the average guy of my size, but I will NEVER fight on the ground with a guy built like me, same body shape and 6'"3 250 pounds. NO WAY. The muscle mass and the limb leverages are just too much at his advantage. I sincerely believe it's a waste of time to learn how to fight on the ground for somebody my size.

My Philosophy: if attacked I should manage to survive the attack and give my attacker a free knee operation as quickly as posible and then run. That's my only goal in self defense. At no time do I plan to be down with a 250 pounds guy on top of me, I don't know where you live but here in the Mid-west, they're common.
Hector

[hongkongfuey]

Train fast, be bad for months and eventually become good. Train slow remain bad for ever.


I think it better to practice proper technique slowly and then build up speed. Also start kicking low with proper technique, and then build up height as the strength in your legs builds up. I've seen too many beginners trying to kick high and kick fast with poor technique. All that they build up is fast 'bad technique' that is then difficult to correct.

Martial Arts is more akin to a technical track and field discipline than 100 meters running. Try throwing the javelin with 100% effort and poor technique and see how far it goes (I know).

[mild7]

yes, I subscribe to the 'practice slow first' method as well.


Hector,
with rgd to BJJ, I am 5'7 my friend. it is a small man's martial art. there is nothing more satisfying than to catch a much bigger guy in a chokehold/jointlock, particularly when you are sparring Vale-tudo(no rules).

[hongkongfuey]

with rgd to BJJ, I am 5'7 my friend. it is a small man's martial art. there is nothing more satisfying than to catch a much bigger guy in a chokehold/jointlock, particularly when you are sparring Vale-tudo(no rules).


There are some advantages in being bigger, but perhaps not as much as most people think (particularly as you move towards full contact fighting). Fighting a smaller fighter is all about keeping your distance - as soon as he/she is in close you could well be in trouble if you don't know some close in fighting techniques / grappling.

Strength also plays a factor, but a fast weaker fighter will beat a strong slower fighter in a most scenarios.

[47Ronin]

So far I agree with Hector.
It seems that it is basically Krav Maga but in a Russian sense.
I agree that maybe be shown what to do slow in detail but when you practice you should use speed and strength.
I still prefer Uechi Karate and would never consider taking that "SYSTEMA".

Regards-