Pride GP (SPOILER)

[neryo_tkd]

"Mirko Filipovic is regaining strength after the defeat in Pride Shockwave, on New Year ’s Eve. Nevertheless, he is sure that Pride open weight GP belt will be his. Even more when the big final is set to September 10th, his birthday.

Filipovic is right in the middle of his training program to fight Japanese Ikuhisa Minowa, at his opening combat in Pride GP. He refuses to talk about his injuries and says it only gives his opponents the map against him. He admits to have been watching Minowa's tapes and have chosen sparrings that look alike the Japanese.

He considers Pride GP his major goal and assures to give his best to conquer the belt. Filipovic is sorry to hear that heavyweight champion Fedor Emelyanenko will not be able to participate at the first round, held on May 5th. Emelyanenko is recovering from a surgery on the right hand. The Croatian considers the GP to be the hardest event of all, once you have to beat four top fighters to win, two of which in the same night. He also applauds the merging of weights, what he considers to be a challenge. Filipovic believes that each fighter have to give its best to overcome physical differences.

” I’m not old.", he says. But he knows he is running out of time and wants the GP title to crown his career. He thinks 35 (Filipovic is 32) is the age limit for a good performance. After that, he says, even if the body is still fit, the mind does not respond so well. So now is the time and Filipovic knows it. There will not be a better oportunity to conquer the title than this one, especially with the big final on the day of his birthday. The Croatian does not talk about the two failed attempts he had to the GP title (lost to Minotauro in 2003 and to Randelman in 2004). He says its part of the past and must be forgotten. Life goes on.

For the future, Filipovic wants to open a big fighting center. The best of Europe, as he says. The goal is to reveal new talents."


So guys what do you think? Will he make it? Who is your fav?

[brainuse]

He will almost certainly make it to round 2, as this is something of a gift first round matchup for him. Minowa has been fighting at 185, and even if he bulks up for this, shouldn't come any bigger than about 200. While there's a slim chance Minowa could drag it to the ground and catch a leglock or something, odds are, he's gonna get kicked and punched. A lot. In the head.

[neryo_tkd]

i agree, mirko should win this one, but if he finds himself again against fedor..... :confused:

[Sever]

From what I understand, Fedor being in this GP is a fairly large IF. He's still recovering from his hand surgery. Although he's been given a bye into the next round, the jury's still out as to whether he'll be fit to participate
I'm not overly sold on the idea of the OWGP, to be honest. I'm just not excited about it - the sport's at the point now where everyone at this level is skilled enough that size will make a difference. Silva and some of the bigger middleweights could make for some interesting matchups since they walk around at heavyweight anyway, but I really hope we don't see any serious size mismatches like Gomi fighting heavyweights

[Sever]

- Roman Zentsov defeats Gilbert Yvel in round 1 by KO

- Fabricio Werdum defeats Alistair Overeem in round 2 by armlock

- Mark Hunt defeats Tsuyoshi Kosaka (TK) in round 2 by KO

- Josh Barnett defeats Alexander Emelianenko in round 2 by armlock

- Kazuyuki Fujita defeats James Thompson in round 2 by KO

- Mirko Cro Cop defeats Ikuhisa Minowa in round 1 by TKO

- Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira defeats Zulu in round 1 by armbar

- Hidehiko Yoshida defeats Yousuke Nishijima in round 1 by triangle
Pretty good event, I thought. I wasn't overly sold on the whole open weight thing, but it seems to have come together pretty well. The Hunt/ TK fight was great

[Nightstrike]

Full of AWESOME matches
This has been one of the most awesome events I'v seen in awhile.

[BigRed389]

Agreed, I was a little wary of blowing my money on this event but it turned out to be worth it.

What's REALLY sick?

Look who's in the NEXT round. These are going to be some absolutely GREAT battles.

Much better matchups in terms of skill/experience than some...like Crocop v Minowa or Nog v Zulu.

[Nightstrike]

Oh I was happy for cro cop, he needed his feast of blood SOMETIME it's only fair to uplift him psychologically somehow.

[neryo_tkd]

what's Zulu doing in this event?

[Ikken Hisatsu]

dissapointed that silva isnt on the cards, but the fights were still great. I love watching Hunt fight

[Arvino_Logarta]

Any of u guys know why bas wasnt around? :confused:

[kmguy8]

i thought bas left pride as an announcer earlier this year over cash & "time" taken from his "acting" amitions.
trigg was to be his replacement and was on the pride fc cable show. however, he has been absent & sux in that role.
unless something changed & they decided to pay bas more....

[BigRed389]

dissapointed that silva isnt on the cards, but the fights were still great. I love watching Hunt fight

Oh definitely, and this time he HAD a great fight too...his opponent was BALLSY, you gotta give him that.

[Ryo452]

dissapointed that silva isnt on the cards, but the fights were still great. I love watching Hunt fight


Unfortunately money was the issue with Wandy. According to him Pride just wouldn't pay him as much as he wanted. Rumor has it that K-1 have offered him double what Pride has.

[neryo_tkd]

does anybody know when the next round of the GP will take place?

[Sever]

No official word yet, but I'd say probably July sometime after the next Bushido event which is June 4th

[neryo_tkd]

i'm really looking forward to the upcoming fights. i can hardly wait to see who'll fight fedor for the title. i'd love to see another crocop vs fedor fight.

[Nettey04]

Any of u guys know why bas wasnt around? :confused:


I dont know for sure though I heard that Bas is working on a team oriented event that will place team X & Y against each other, who ever wins the most matches well you know the rest.

[Bhattman]

Too bad, Fedors not going to be in this GP - his hand won't heal in time. So to replace him, Pride have brought in ..... the Axe Murderer - Wanderlei Silva!

[neryo_tkd]

has this been confirmed? any link?

[Apotheosis]

Yes, official announcement from Pride.

http://www.pridefc.com/pride2005/index.php?mainpage=news&news_id=712

Possible match-ups include Silva vs Mirko now that is a fight I would like to see.

[Sever]

Mirko would batter Wanderlei this time, I think. Crocop's takedown defence and ground game have improved a lot since the last time they fought, he wouldn't be so worried about the takedown. Current theory doing the forums is that Crocop will be facing Yoshida as he's the only one in the GP that won't be a rematch or someone he's trained with. As with all things Pride, this will probably change, but it's a good fight on paper. While I'd have liked to have seen Fedor in this GP, at least him still being out injured gives someone else a chance of winning it, thus setting up a good fight for a later date, possibly on Shockwave
As happy as I am that Silva's in it now, I still think it's going to be either Crocop or Nogueira that wins it (leaning towards Crocop), with Hunt as my dark horse

[callsignfuzzy]

Gonna go for Nog, just 'cause I prefer his style of fighting, but if he faces Mirko, I think the Croation will probably win. Like Sever said, Cro Cop's TD defense has improved, so without the ability to get him to the ground, Nog may not have any tools to defeat him.

I'd also love to see Silva win, but I think the weight difference will be the deciding factor in whoever he looses to. Though I'm still sure the guy will give us an incredible match.

Good call on Hunt being the dark horse, sounds logical. Dude's got a heck of a punch.

Can't wait for the next round!

[Apotheosis]

I'm gonna go with Nog winning, but Silva may have a chance(just cause I picked him).

I want to see someone knock Hunt out, preferably Silva since he lost to him.

[Nightstrike]

I don't think its even much of the takedown defense with mirko now, as his ground game is improving to the point where I doubt nog will armbar cro cop again if they meet.

[BigRed389]

Good call on Hunt being the dark horse, sounds logical. Dude's got a heck of a punch.


Not to mention impossible to knockout, and not even easy to submit.

Did you guys see TK ALMOST lock in the rear naked choke? But he couldn't wrap his leg hooks in past Hunt's gut so Hunt got out.

[neryo_tkd]

hmmm this is getting more and more interesting. even though i'm cheering for cro cop, i didn't think that he could have beaten fedor, but now when fedor is definitely not fighting, i think that mirko has very good chances and guys don't forget the final fight is on mirko's birthday. i think we all know what he wants this year for present.

[Apotheosis]

Not to mention impossible to knockout, and not even easy to submit.

Did you guys see TK ALMOST lock in the rear naked choke? But he couldn't wrap his leg hooks in past Hunt's gut so Hunt got out.


I want to see him get knocked out.

[Sever]

It's not something I'd EVER place money on - the guy's taken full Crocop death kicks and just smiled, not to mention dropping his hands and waving Ray Sefo in to take his best shots and didn't go down :eek: The only way Hunt loses in this tourney is from submission or decision, the way I see it

[Bhattman]

Yeah - to try and submit Hunt would be the smart way to fight him. I personally think that Barnett and Werdum could both be dark horses in this GP.

[Apotheosis]

I still want to see him get knocked out.

[neryo_tkd]

as you have already said.

[Bhattman]

Apparently, Silva might be fighting Fujita in Round 2.

http://completevaletudoaccess.blogspot.com/

[Apotheosis]

as you have already said.

I wanted to reiterate it after Sever's post.

It would be like seeing Royce get submitted.

[Sever]

The next round is on July 1st

[neryo_tkd]

what about the match ups? fedor is not fighting, so have the fighters already been chosen?

[Sever]

The current card is:

Kazayuki Fujita vs Wanderlei Silva: A tough fight for Silva, especially if he's not been working his takedown defence. I'll pick Silva by decision, but it's going to be a rough night for him

Josh Barnett vs Mark Hunt: This one's got fight of the night written all over it. Both guys won the two best fights of the last event, for my money. I'm going with Hunt on this one, but this could go either way. Barnett seemed to want to stand up against Aleksander, if he does that with Hunt, he's getting served, where Hunt's takedown defence is looking very good as well. This one's going to be a war

Antonio Noguiera vs Fabricio Werdum: This is either going to be one of the most beautiful displays of technical ground fighting you'll ever see outside of ADCC, or one of those slightly boring fights where two guys with phenomenal jiu jitsu don't want to go to the mat so they rely on their average standup. Either way, I'm going to give this one to Noguiera. I suspect Werdum's got the better pure BJJ, but Noguiera's got too much experience and his standup's a bit cleaner

Hideohiko Yoshida vs Mirko Crocop: Yoshida's very game, always willing to brawl it out with a good striker and has great submissions, but I just don't see him making it past the first round without being put down

There'll probably be a couple of extra fights on there to pad the card out a bit, but there's the makings of a great event in the tournament matches

[neryo_tkd]

interesting card, i'm really looking forward to seeing the matches :)

[neryo_tkd]

The order of the fights for July 2nd's CRITICAL COUNTDOWN ABSOLUTE '06:


9th Yoshida vs. Crocop --- CRO COP won

8th Hunt vs. Barnett ---- BARNETT won

7th Fujita vs. Silva ---- SILVA won

6th Rodrigo Nogueira vs. Werdum --- NOGUEIRA won



5th Nakamura vs. Cyborg (Santos)

4th Rogerio Nogueira vs. Overeem

3rd Takahashi vs. Belfort

2nd Nakao vs. Eun-Su

1st Dorago vs. Natsula

[Sever]

My last minute picks:

Dorago vs. Natsula: I'd like to see Natsula take this, but I've got a feeling in my headbones about Dorago

Nakao vs. Eun-Su: Barring any kiss KO's like he got against Herring, Nakao should take this pretty handily

Takahashi vs. Belfort: Belfort HAS to win this. Pride have given him a tune up fight to get himself back to his winning ways since he's still a draw. If he loses this, he'll probably be done in the big leagues. Takahashi won't lay down for him, but I'm expecting him to be overwhelmed. WAR VITOR!

Rogerio Nogueira vs. Alastiar Overeem: Noguiera by submission

Nakamura vs. Cyborg: Cyborg is the scariest looking dude in MMA, rivalled only by Babalu's staredown. This will probably not affect the fight ;) Santos's big let down has always been his conditioning, with questions about his ground game. If he can keep it on the feet, Cyborg's got a chance to end it quickly and violently, if he gases early, Nakamura will sub him. I'd like to see Cyborg take this, but I'm not committing on a pick

Rodrigo Nogueira vs. Fabricio Werdum: I'm staying with Nog on this one, probably by decision

Hunt vs. Barnett: I still think Hunt will take this. He's got the gas to go the distance and his takedown defence is coming along nicely. Barnett's well rounded and has a lot of heart, but if he considers trading with Hunt the way he did Aleksander, he'll be dropped hard

Fujita vs. Silva: Silva by decision. He just needs to avoid the big Fujita hook and the takedowns. Fujita's cardio looked suspect in his last fight and this is something I see Silva exploiting. He won't KO Fujita

Yoshida vs. Crocop: Crocop, probably quickly

[neryo_tkd]

i think that Hunt's fans were a bit disappointed because Barnett won very quickly.

Cro Cop did a good job. he realised that he had success with his right low kick, so he kept using it till the damage was done.

silva was so funny at the beginning, he couldn't wait for the beginning of the fight.

so the final four are: cro cop, minotauro, barnett and silva.

i'd love to see cro cop and minotauro in the final fight. in the semi final we might expect to see cro cop - hunt and minotauro - barnett.

[Sever]

Just scored a few of the fights. DAMN Silva looked nasty today. He's looked a little lackluster in his last couple of fights, but he just did something Fedor couldn't do! :eek: Glad Vitor pulled it out

[neryo_tkd]

what do you think who'll win the final fight?

[Apotheosis]

Dorago vs. Natsula- No idea, so I will flip a coin. Dorago it is

Nakao vs. Eun-Su- Nakao

Takahashi vs. Belfort- I would like to see Belfort get back to his winning ways, so I will pick him.

Rogerio Nogueira vs. Alastiar Overeem- Overeem

Nakamura vs. Cyborg- Cyborg by KO

Rodrigo Nogueira vs. Fabricio Werdum- I was going to pick Werdum, then realized picking against both Nogs' would be stupid. So Rodrigo is gonna take this one.

Hunt vs. Barnett- Hunt is a beast, and I just don't see him getting beat by Barnett.
Is there anyone in MMA who could KO hunt without a baseball bat?

Fujita vs. Silva- Silva, the last fights I have seen of Silva he got beaten. So I hope I get to see him come out on top.

Yoshida vs. Crocop: I wanted to pick Yoshida for the upset, still do. But I just don't know if he could pull it off so I will go 50/50.

Edit- I won't be able to get this ppv, so let me know how things go and perhaps hook me up with some clips?

[neryo_tkd]

people, what's up with you? haven't you seen the results in blue in one of my posts above? i watched all the fights this morning around 11:30 CET.

[Sever]

I thought they were your picks! The event seems to have kicked off a lot earlier than usual. I normally watch the feed early Sunday morning GMT
As for who wins the finals; it pretty much depends entirely on the brackets - there are bad style matchups for everyone in those four. If it goes Silva/ Barnett and Nog/ Crocop we'll probably see Barnett vs Crocop again in the finals since I think Barnett's takedowns are too good for Silva and I don't see Nog subbing Crocop again. If it goes Silva/ Crocop, Barnett/ Nog, I'd still pick Crocop for a finalist, but Barnett/ Nog is a bit more up in the air. It'd probably still go to a Mirko/ Nog final

[neryo_tkd]

The event seems to have kicked off a lot earlier than usual. I normally watch the feed early Sunday morning GMT

i always watch these fights on saturdays at this time :confused:

[Sever]

Weird. Does it have a delay to Japan or something?

[neryo_tkd]

i really don't know. one of our tv stations always tunes in live when mirko fights, but sometimes, like today, when the fights are expected to be good, they broadcast the entire tournament. :)

[faster than you]

belfort looked extremely fast.
silva looked destructive.
barnett may win it all.

[Apotheosis]

So anyone have a play-by-(not asking you to do one, but if you already have or know someone who does) or any video clips?

Neryo- Like Sever I assumed they were picks, thought I had a couple more hours before it started.

[neryo_tkd]

barnett may win it all.
well, he might just win, it wouldn't be the first time that the least expected triumphs. but then again, when i consider who he is standing up against.....we're talking about 3 mean fighters.


So anyone have any video clips?
ask, and you shall receive :D

minotauro vs werdum
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6X38LX57

post fight interview with minotauro
http://www.sherdog.com/videos/videos.asp?v_id=785

silva
http://www.sendspace.com/file/wh3q5p

hunt
http://up-file.com/download/04c688127394/Pride-OW--nd-Round---Josh-Barnett-vs-Mark-Hunt---WF-Yassuo.wmv.html

cro cop
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=P83M83LH

Neryo- Like Sever I assumed they were picks, thought I had a couple more hours before it started.
no problem :)

[Apotheosis]

Thanks a bunch neryo, appreciate it.

[neryo_tkd]

no problem :)

[Apotheosis]

Thanks again Neryo, some good fights.

Non tournament fights- Apparently Belfort got a quick knockout, but I don't know how impressive it was.(Anyone who saw it care to comment?)

Cyborg got dominated from what I read, sad to hear.

As for the next round, I will go with a Silva vs Nog finale.

[neryo_tkd]

Cyborg got dominated from what I read, sad to hear.


you haven't seen the fights yet?

here they are:


1 - Edson Drago x Pawel Nastula
http://www.sendspace.com/file/ubmzxq

2 - Yoshihiro Nakao x Lee Eun Su
http://www.sendspace.com/file/dlkez3

3 - Vitor Belfort x Yoshiki Takahashi
http://rapidshare.de/files/24647905/Pride-OW--nd-Round---Vitor-Belfort-vs-Yoshiki-Takahashi---k-1France.wmv.html

4 - Alistair Overeem x Rogério Minotouro
http://up-file.com/download/2e0737819778/Pride-OW--nd-Round---Alistair-Overeem-vs-Rogerio-Minotouro---WF-Yassuo.wmv.html

5 - Evangelista Cyborg x Kazuhiro Nakamura
http://s3.quicksharing.com/v/547343/Pride_OW_2nd_Round_Evangelista_Cyborg_vs_Kazuhiro_ Nakamura_WF_Ya.wmv.html



i also agree about silva vs minotauro semifinal. then we'd have hunt vs cro cop as a revenge. and with these match ups, who do you see in the final fight?

[Sever]

Depending on how the brackets get set up, I'm predicting a Crocop/ Noguiera final, though Barnett could be in there depending how they get setup.
If it goes Silva/ Crocop, Nog/ Barnett, I'd go with a Crocop/ Nog final since I don't see Silva getting by Crocop this time (we're talking potential fight of the year though) and I just can't see Barnett beating Noguiera
If it goes Barnett/ Silva, Nog/ Crocop, I'm picking a Crocop/ Barnett final since although Silva's takedown defence has improved, I don't think it's improved enough to stop Barnett taking him down and GnP'ing a decision and I just have a feeling that Crocop would get past Nog this time, possibly by decision, but I wouldn't rule out a TKO since he's the only person to really drop Noguiera.
If it goes Nog/ Silva, Barnett/ Crocop, it's still the Nog/ Crocop final
I think I've covered them all (trying to work out all the possible matches made my head hurt :cry: )

[Apotheosis]

Could you reload the Cyborg file? (says the file isn't there).

As for the final match, I see Silva vs Barnett and hope it will be exciting.

[neryo_tkd]

try this link http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=BED4CA032CAFD252

you actually think that minotauro and cro cop will not make it to the final match? :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Apotheosis]

you actually think that minotauro and cro cop will not make it to the final match? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Thanks- Wow Cyborg got a beating.

Glad Belfort got a win, hope he can manage to regain some of his old form as he was a very exciting fighter to watch.

As to the tournament, I guess it depend son the match-ups.

If Silva vs Cro-Crop and Nog vs Barnett then I see Silva beating Cro-crop.

It may very well be wishful thinking, but Mirko seems to have some stamina problems and now that Fedor and Hunt have shown how to beat him via pressuring him constantly. His kick can't do as much damage if he is backing up constantly, and we all know Silva has an aggresive side.

I see Barnett taking Nog out via KO unless Nog gets it to the ground where it will be a different game.

If the matches are Silva vs Barnett then I see Silva winning and Nog taking down Cro Crop.

Barnett vs Cro-Crop I see Barnett winning, although I can't be sure.

Nog vs Silva would be a close one, but if Silva can keep it on his feet then he can take it.

[Sever]

I see Barnett taking Nog out via KO unless Nog gets it to the ground where it will be a different game.Have you seen the kind of punishment Nog can take? His chin is up to Mark Hunt standards - no WAY is Barnett going to KO him, he might take him down and GnP a decision (though I don't see it) but if these two fight, I see Nog taking him out

[Apotheosis]

I stand corrected, I had no idea Nog had that kind of chin. That sort of changes things, I will change my vote to Nog over Barnett.

Only real reason I am picking SIlva to win it all is he is such an underdog in this event, plus he is very exciting to watch.

The final match is going to have two very beat up fighters competing.

[neryo_tkd]

i agree with Sever, in the case of barnett and nog, nog would win.

as far as cro cop is concerned, hmmm, yes, his stamina, everyone has noticed that. i really don't know what's wrong with him. he has even changed the expert team and everything, but it might be the age or something, i don't know.

in any case, i'm definitely looking forward to watching silva because:

1. he doesn't avoid the fight.

2. he is the only middle weight fighter among the heavy weights.

so i'd love to see him in the final fight.

[Apotheosis]

Absolutely, it isn't that I think Silva is some sort of fighting God, he is just incredibly exciting to watch.

[neryo_tkd]

oh yeah, definitely

he was so funny to watch when the judge was explaining the rules to them, so silva was looking at his opponent but he was so anxious to start the fight, he couldn't stand still :D

[Sever]

The brackets are:

Silva vs Crocop
Noguiera vs Barnett
(from Pride's Official Site (http://www.prideofficial.com/))

I think whoever wins the Nog/ Barnett fight will take the final, purely because Crocop and Silva are both such physical fighters that there's no way whoever wins doesn't get really banged up in that fight. I'm really looking forwards to the next round

[Oversoul]

It's nice to see Nogueira is back in action. I hope he wins, but the others are all pretty tough too and any of them could win.

[neryo_tkd]

silva vs crocop? hmmm can cro cop beat this guy?!! :confused: that'll be definitely interesting to watch.

[Sever]

I think Crocop can now. Silva's a dangerous striker, but Crocop's just on a different level on the feet and his takedown defence is up to the kind of standard now where Silva won't be able to take him down. In their last fight (granted, it was under modified rules), Silva wanted very little to do with Crocop's standup and kept taking him down. If Crocop's cardio's up to scratch, I see him taking this by decision or possibly stoppage, but he's really got to bring his top game, because you know Silva will. If Silva pushes the pace, doesn't let Crocop put his feet down and stays in his face, he could well take the win, but I'm going to go with a Crocop/ Noguiera final match

[Apotheosis]

I am going with a Silva vs Nog final, all Brazil.

I think if Silva uses the all out aggressive strategy that Fedor and Hunt used then he ill be able to damage Cro-cop.

Of course I could easily be wrong, but that remains to be seen.

[callsignfuzzy]

Interesting brackets...

Nog over Barnett. Sorry, Josh. It's just not your day.

Tentatively, Silva over CroCop. Again, pretty much counting on a super-agressive strategy from him to keep Mirko from unleashing the "Decapitation Kick" (TM).

I like both Nog and Silva. I don't really want to see either of 'em loose. Not even gonna predict the final. Too close.

Although, for the purposes of Silva-Liddell, it would be awesome of Wandy won it all...

[Apotheosis]

No it wouldn't, then Silva would have to face Fedor.

No way will Silva finish the tournament without an injury, no way.

[neryo_tkd]

but he's really got to bring his top game, because you know Silva will.

exactly that's what i'm talking about. i hope he does bring his best, because silva definitely won't hesitate. if he sees a slight chance, he will go at it.

if cro cop loses this match, hmmm, do you see him fighting again?

and whoever wins the final match, i still see fedor going home with the belt.

[Apotheosis]

I see him fighting again, I just don't think he would retire on such a low note.

As to Fedor, yea I really don't see anyone beating him.

[Sever]

if cro cop loses this match, hmmm, do you see him fighting again?I see him fighting again, but I see him being smart enough to switch his training and his team up a bit. If something's not working for you, you don't quit, you just mix it up a bit.
Crocop knows that A) this tournament's his best route to a big cheque and B) his best route to avenging his losses to Noguiera and Fedor. I don't think there's any way he'll come into this event without putting his best effort into training

[neryo_tkd]

well that's what i'm talking about. not long time ago he did change his team, but everybody noticed his stamina problems. you remember when he used that new song? well, around that time he got new experts working for him. on the other side, he himself said that now it's all or nothing and that it might be his last chance.

[Sever]

I just read an interview with Crocop on another forum where he said he actually doesn't have any stamina problems. He's got a deviated septum in his nose which has come from it getting broken a bunch of times and breathing through it is hard, so he has to breathe through his mouth when exerting himself which makes him look like he's gassed. Apparently he's getting surgery after the next event. I'm still picking Crocop over Silva, but probably Noguiera for the belt since whoever wins that fight is coming in at much less than 100%

[neryo_tkd]

well, if that is the case..... i know when i'm stuck with sinusitis and you can't breathe through your nose, it's a huge problem. i guess cro cop ought to win then. hoping to see a good fight though.

[Sever]

Pride have just announced a reserve bout for the finals: Aleksander Emilanenko vs Sergey Kharitonov. That's going to be one hell of a fight that could go either way. I'm picking Kharitonov but if his shoulder's not fully healed up or he gets cocky and drops his hands, Aleks could well take it

[neryo_tkd]

yes, i agree. oh, i'm so looking forward to those fights.

i read an interview with cro cop. the journalist asked him what he thought about silva's ''threats'' that he would beat cro cop up. cro cop just laughed and said that a person with brains can get crazy sometimes, but a person without brains can never get smart :D :D :D

[neryo_tkd]

cro cop will not fight on sep. 10 in saitama against silva. he has not come to an agreement with the japanese. as always, it's about money. this weekend cro cop is resting in a little village where he comes from, and next week he is going to the seaside. he has got an offer from america and apparently he will accept it.

[slipthejab]

yes, i agree. oh, i'm so looking forward to those fights.

i read an interview with cro cop. the journalist asked him what he thought about silva's ''threats'' that he would beat cro cop up. cro cop just laughed and said that a person with brains can get crazy sometimes, but a person without brains can never get smart :D :D :D

classic. absolutely classic. :D

[neryo_tkd]

damn, i was hoping to see the fight cro cop vs silva, but then again, who knows, maybe we'll see it after all. who knows what's behid all that.

[Sever]

The only source I've actually seen on this is a post on Sherdog that's been copy and pasted around a couple of other forums and links to a Croatian article - at the moment I'm not putting too much faith in this since if it were true, most likely all the major news sites would have it up.
The "American promotion" is apparently the WFA - they've got fairly deep pockets, but I'm still not buying it. If they did somehow sign Crocop, the UFC would have dropped the ball yet again by not signing top talent when they're on the market
EDIT: Sherdog have since put the highlights of a sucky translation on their news page. DSE are apparently in contact with Crocop but declined further comment. Still smells like fish to me

[Apotheosis]

Doesn't make any sense to me

[neryo_tkd]

i read the croatian article and cro cop said that he has been trying to solve the situation with PRIDE for a while but the japanese would not give him any answer. he was fed up with everything so he is on vacation as of this weekend.

[Sever]

At worst, I think this is a negotiating ploy, at best (and most likely) this is something that's been blown out of all proportion the way things tend to when they get out on the internet. Crocop has very little to gain from joining the WFA - sure he'd maybe get the bigger cheques for the actual fights but over in Japan he's a huge star with more endorsements than you can shake a stick at. He stops fighting in Japan, that all goes away and he's fighting in a country where hardly anyone's heard of him. He'd be a big MMA star very fast in the US, but the market's just not there for him to make that kind of mainstream crossover. The only advantage he'd find in America, the WFA in particular, is that there's no heavyweight that would even last a round with him, let alone beat him
DSE are allegedly in contact with him, so I see this being resolved pretty quickly

[neryo_tkd]

i also see this solved very soon. i don't see him back off now. the belt is what he has always wanted.

[Apotheosis]

Apparently this is quite serious, his teammates say this is for real.

[Sever]

Stands to reason - if your boy's angling for some more money and/or a better contract (Mirko is on a fight-by-fight agreement rather than a long-term contract) the last thing you're going to do is tell everyone that's what he's doing
EDIT: Oh, lookie what I found. Love it when I'm right :D http://www.vecernji-list.hr/newsroom/sports/more/605988/index.do
Here's a sucky translation:

Zagreb - After the news of crocop not participating in the pride grand prix finals the japanese reacted fast. They accepted every term that Mirko Filipovic has set and the Croat will participate on the 10th vs Vanderlei Silva.

- I'm happy because I reached an agreement. I will have a chance to make my sports dream come true after all, to be the undisputed champion in competition with silva barnett and minotauro- sayd crocop.

- With this move the pride people have showed how much mirko means to them. If he reaches the final his second fight will be payed, and if he was to win the tournament he will get a 150.000 dollar bonus.

[Apotheosis]

Awsome, glad I was wrong

[neryo_tkd]

hahahaha money talks :D

[Sever]

A couple more matches have been added to the card:
Kazuhiro Nakamura vs Yoshihiro “KISS” Nakao (he of the infamous Heath Herring KO incident) and Yousuke Nishijima will fight Evangelista Cyborg. Nishijima was the guy who had a great standup fight with Mark Hunt recently (before TK) and brings very good boxing and tons of heart. Cyborg is the scariest looking dude in MMA, bar none, and has the Chute Boxe style of striking, but doesn't really have the cardio or ground game to back it up the way the more famous members of that team do.
I'm picking Nishijima by TKO and Nakamura by submission.
They should both be pretty good fights
Source (http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=2521&zoneid=13)

[Sever]

Two more fights have been added now: Mauricio "Shogun" Rua vs Cyrille Diabate and Ricardo Arona vs Allistair Overeem (Source: Pride FC (http://www.prideofficial.com/free/news/details.php?id=1156751931)) making the full card

OWGP Championship Final
Mirko Cro Cop vs Wanderlei Silva
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira vs Josh Barnett
Sergei Kharitonov vs Aleksander Emelianenko
Ricardo Arona vs Allistair Overeem
Kazuhiro Nakamura vs Yoshihiro Nakao
Yousuke Nishijima vs Evangelista "Cyborg" Santos
Mauricio Shogun vs Cyrille Diabate

How much does this card rock?! :D

[Apotheosis]

It is good enough that I will be ordering it, recording it, and likely dreaming of it.

[Sever]

My final picks:

-Mirko Cro Cop vs Wanderlei Silva: Probably the toughest call of the night. Either man can win this one, but I'm going to go with Crocop. He'll know he's been in a fight though

-Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira vs Josh Barnett: Nogueira by decision. Barnett will bring the fight to him, probably take him down and try to GnP him, but Pride judges like fighters with active guard games and will probably give him the decision if it goes to the ground. If it stays on the feet, it's still a competitive fight; Barnett won't knock be able Nog out, but Nog probably won't KO Barnett either so it'll be all about scoring often rather than who gets the first big shot. Nogueira's boxing's that little bit crisper and he's shown many times that he's got the cardio to keep it up for the whole fight. Either way, I think it's most likely that the winner of this one takes the belt home - unless Crocop or Silva catch a win quickly, the winner of that fight comes out very banged up

-Sergei Kharitonov vs Aleksander Emelianenko: If Silva/ Crocop wasn't on the card, this'd be the fight of the night. Kharitonov's one of my favourite fighters, but I rank Aleks too and there are a lot of variables here; namely how has Sergei's shoulder healed up and how has Aleks' conditioning improved? I'm picking Kharitonov by TKO

-Ricardo Arona vs Allistair Overeem: We may actually see Arona finish a fight here :eek: Overeem's a good striker with a big reach advantage, but Arona's takedowns and ground control are enough to decision most fighters. The difference in this fight is that Overeem always has crap cardio and has very long, submission-friendly limbs which together greatly increases the likelihood that the ADCC champ will catch ahold of one when Overeem gases out. That said, Arona's chin is pretty much always on display when he's striking so if it stays on the feet for a length of time, Overeem SHOULD be able to catch it. Still, I'm picking Arona by armbar

-Kazuhiro Nakamura vs Yoshihiro Nakao: Still going with Nakamura by sub. I just really hope Nakao doesn't try to kiss him if he's in Nakamura's guard :eek:

-Yousuke Nishijima vs Evangelista "Cyborg" Santos: Nishijima by TKO, I reckon, but Santos can make any fight interesting if they try to brawl it out with him

-Mauricio Shogun vs Cyrille Diabate: Important fight for Shogun as we'll get to see how well he's healed up from his arm injury. My pick? Shogun by repeated facial stompage after putting the hurt on the Frenchy in a big way :D

Roll on early Sunday morning

[Apotheosis]

Mirko vs Wanderlei : Your right it is very tough to pick, but I will go with Silva via KO.

Nogueira vs Barnett: Nog via submission or decision.

Sergei vs Aleksander: I know squat about Sergei and I don't know much more about Emelianenko but what I do know is he has the same genes as Fedor. So that means I pick Aleksander via KO due to his genetics.

Yea I know it is a bit silly, but when in doubt go with the guy related to the champ.

Arona vs Overeem: I dislike Arona and as such I will pick Overeem mainly because I don't want to watch Arona lay on Overeem for the entire match.

-Kazuhiro Nakamura vs Yoshihiro Nakao: I also see Nakamura beating "Kiss Kiss" via sub early on

Yousuke Nishijima vs Evangelista "Cyborg" Santo: Nish is a tremendous boxer and should be able to pick Cyborg apart on his feet and Cyborg rarely brings it to the ground. Going to go with Nish via TKO unless Cyborg lives up to his image(he looks like a physco killer, but doesn't fight like a guy to be feared like Fedor or Silva)

Shogun vs Diabate: Shogun will win via TKO or submisison(verbal tapout) if he loses I will be shocked beyond belief.

So I see the final match being Silva vs Nog with Silva taking the win(mostly because I like him, which I know will help him get the win) and then going up against Fedor...then what we will see is goign to be a bigger version of throwing a tomato at a brick wall...the brick wall is going to win.

[Blevunly]

Silva vs Cro Cop: I say Silva by (T)KO

Nog vs Barnett: Barnett will pound out a decision

Sergie vs Aleks: Aleks by decision assuming Aleks doesn't gas like his last fight I see him outboxing but not knocking out Sergie.

Arona vs Overeem: Arona by sub late in round 2 or early in tound 3 I see overeem doing good in stand up and arona getting some takedowns in the first then Overeem will most likely gas and Arona's superior ground game will get him the sub.

Silva vs Barnett: Barnett by decision Silva had trouble with Arona and Barnett is about 40 to 50lbs heavier than arona and will control him on the ground.

In the end I see Barnett taking it the whole thing.

[Apotheosis]

Official Weigh Ins for the event

Source (http://www.mmanews.com/article/159840042.php)

Tried to find it on Pride's official site but could't. it was also on Sherdog and other sites.


Vanderlei Silva (225.1 lbs.) vs. Mirko CroCop (220.9 lbs.)
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (242 lbs.) vs. Josh Barnett (255.2 lbs.)
Sergei Kharitonov (244.2 lbs.) vs. Aleksander Emelianenko (259.6 lbs.)
Ricardo Arona (204.4 lbs.) vs. Alistair Overeem (208.9 lbs.)
Mauricio "Shogun" Rua (203.9 lbs.) vs. Cyrille Diabate (201.7 lbs.)
Kazuhiro Nakamura (223.3 lbs.) vs. Yoshihiro Nakao (224.4 lbs.)
Yosuke Nishijima (202 lbs.) vs. Evangelista "Cyborg" Santos (203.5 lbs.)
Ricardo Morais (277.2 lbs.) vs. Lee Tae Hyun (294.8 lbs.)

Biggest news is that Silva is heavier than Mirko!!!

[neryo_tkd]

cro cop just KOed silva.
silva didn't have a chance at all. cro cop was aggressive from the very beginning, and that's the cro cop we haven't seen in a while. he KOed silva with a left high kick, but even before that moment, the fight was stopped because silva was bleeding.

[neryo_tkd]

barnett won against monitauro by decision 2:1 (i didn't underestimate barnett but i'm disappointed :eek: )

it wasn't an explosive fight like the 1st semifinal fight but barnett was good in escaping from minotauro's locks. they did 2 rounds and barnett is exhausted, and it seems that cro cop's dream to win the GP might just come true.

[neryo_tkd]

alexander emelianenko won against kharitonov.
the ref stopped the fight. the fight was a bit boring till that last moment.



Ricardo Morais won against Lee Tae Hyun.
the ref stopped the fight. the fight was a disgrace. both fighters didn't have any stamina and their techniques were sloppy all the time. the korean is a new kid on the block and the brazilian is a veteran who has fought rarely in the past few years. i expected a little bit more of the brazilian guy because the korean didn't have any guard and it would have been easy to finish him, but as i said it was a torture to watch that fight. the audience was so not pleased.

[Sever]

Do we not use spoiler tags now, Neryo? :D
Crocop is SO taking this :D Quite surprised that Barnett won the decision, I thought it was close enough that it could've gone either way.

[neryo_tkd]

Do we not use spoiler tags now, Neryo? :D

:o :o :o
cro cop won, so don't blame me, it IS the GP after all, who's thinking about spoiler tags?! everyone knows that the thread is a spoiler. :D :Angel: :D




HAPPY NOW???? :D

[Sever]

NO! I want a case of beer and/ or a couple of Pride ring girls delivered to my place by way of apology! :Angel: :D :Angel:

[neryo_tkd]

and/ or

MEN!!! can't you make up your mind? :D

[Sever]

Well I'd prefer the ring girls, but it could cause domestic problems with the girlfriend. Imagine the situation:
*Doorbell*
Her: "Babe, there are a couple of cute Japanese girls at the door for you
Me: "WHOOHOO! Go shoe shopping or something, honey, I'm gonna be busy for a while!"
Her: "OK, but I'm taking your credit card"
Me: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" :cry: :cry:
I believe Shogun vs French Can is the next fight

[neryo_tkd]

Mauricio "Shogun" Rua KOed Cyrille Diabate
Shogun dominated the fight



so, your money is more important??? :D

[Sever]

Shogun looked pretty good in there. Little more cautious than I'm used to seeing him, but that's natural after an injury like that I suppose. The Frenchy had some good striking, but Shogun stomping his face in has made my morning!
My money is very important when it comes to the girly spending it on shoes, yes. I'm afraid of that :D
Arona/ Overeem's up now. I'm gonna get a coffee, I think. Could be a yawnfest

[neryo_tkd]

oh yeah, the stumping was hilarious. the french guy didn't have a chance with that shiny butt hahahaha

[neryo_tkd]

Ricardo Arona won against Alistair Overeem

Arona was better. Overeem gave up, eye injury or something.


and now the final fight :)

[Sever]

Holy crap! Arona finished a fight! :eek: I think Overeem's neck problems came into play here - Arona was hitting him in the back of the neck repeatedly (poor reffing letting that go) and he tapped out from it. Think Arona caught him in the eye a couple of times too. He's walking pretty funny right now, I hope he's OK
OW! Barnett looks like he's been in a train wreck. Still looking a little tired too. Crocop looks pretty fresh. Someone REALLY needs to talk to Crocop about his music taste. One of the top fighters in the world should not advertise that they like Duran Duran

[neryo_tkd]

cro cop wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn againt barnett

[Sever]

Absolutely RUINED Barnett there. Barnett tapped after a strike on the ground. Not quite sure what happened yet, but he's still down. Heard him yell "OW POOPIES (well, not exactly)" after that hit. Watching the replay, I think Barnett may have a busted orbital bone after that shot
WHOOO!!!! GO CROCOP!!!
Damn, Barnett's face is wrecked! Silva's not there to accept his 3rd place award because he's injured after the Crocop fight
Awesome event beginning to end. I've been up since 6am watching it and now I'm going back to bed for a bit :D
I want those ring girls here ASAP, Neryo :D

[Journeyman]

Journeyman's Guide to Life Tip #142-- Never get kicked in the head by Cro Cop.

http://up.nm78.com/data/up106125.jpg

[neryo_tkd]

Sever, didn't you say you want a case of beer instead? :D

[Sever]

The beer's probably the safer option, yeah :D

[neryo_tkd]

hehehe well, then you'll have to make do with this...

http://www.pridefc.com/pride2005/imgs/top/pridegirl/pridegirl.jpg

[MaxG]

So does anyone know if Cro Cop broke something? That hit looked pretty normal but Josh cried out and tapped pretty quickly. I'm guessing Cro Cop broke something. Just wondering what exactly happened.

And I'm wondering why we have to use spoiler tags if the topic is marked spoiler?

[Sever]

So does anyone know if Cro Cop broke something? That hit looked pretty normal but Josh cried out and tapped pretty quickly. I'm guessing Cro Cop broke something. Just wondering what exactly happened.Word is that Crocop's last strike broke his orbital bone (that bone around the eye socket). The way it swelled up, it certainly looked that way
And I'm wondering why we have to use spoiler tags if the topic is marked spoiler?Because this event doesn't air everywhere at the same time and this has been a long running, popular thread with many people subscribed to it. You don't use spoiler tags, any results get sent by email to anyone who's subscribed to the thread. It's just standard practise really, it prevents any spoilage due to accidental clicks etc

[Oversoul]

I thought Nog won against Barnett, but it was close enough that I wasn't too terribly surprised to see it go the other way...

[neryo_tkd]

Sever, and not a single word about the pride girls? tsk tsk tsk :confused:


guys, have you see cro cop crying when he received the belt? it must have been a very sensitive moment for him. i don't know if you got the entire translation, but when he spoke croatian, he said that it was the happiest day of his life, but he regrets only for one fact, that his father is not alive, he died 12 years ago, so he dedicated the belt to him.

[bujingodai]

I am very glad I used that PPV it was a good bunch of fights.
I am looking forward to seeing Coleman get stomped by Fedor in Vegas as well

[Apotheosis]

Mirko vs Wanderlei : This fight really opened my eyes, I admit I have allowed sentiment to cloud my judgement of Wandy. I like the guy, but his style of fighting is going to get him wrecked against a technical striker with power like Mirko. He leaves himself wide open and this is the result. I hope Pride has him fight for the title soon so Shogun can take it as he is the better fighter. Unless Pride feeds Wandy cans I see him really struggling in the future vs anyone who can counterpunch, including Lidell.

As to Mirko, he was an animal tonight. He ate Wandy for breakfeast and looked anxious for more. Never seen him better.

Nogueira vs Barnett: Was a good fight, could have gone either way but Barnett did more to end the fight. This fight really wore him out, and Mirko lucked out with the easier fight. Of course he had something to do with ending it so soon as well.

Sergei vs Aleksander: My first pick I got right, and it was due to Alexs genes' as opposed to his skill. A bit odd but I will tkae a win anyway I can get it. Was a bit dissapointing fight, the guys just danced around most of it except the 30 seconds where Sergi knocked him down and then the end of the fight when Alexs destroyed him...Late ref stoppage.

Arona vs Overeem: Arona dominated, looked great and actually ended the fight. Look out for him, he is looking scary now.

-Kazuhiro Nakamura vs Yoshihiro Nakao: Boring fight, thats all I have to say.

Yousuke Nishijima vs Evangelista "Cyborg" Santo: Cyborg dominated this fight, from the stand-up till when he took it down and got the quick RNC. Very shocked how he dominated the striking,



Shogun vs Diabate: Shogun got a good win but I was more impressed with the Snake. Great striking, some good ground escapes. If he develops a better sprawl and a good ground game he could be a good mma fighter.

Mirko vs Barnett : Mirko dominated but I feel that was mainly due to his opponent being worn out. I can't remember Barnett go for 1 takedown, and when he wa son his back he didn't make any effort to escape whcih we know he can do as he was able to escape from Nog multiple times. I liked his leg kicks, perhaps that is Mirko's weakenss on the feet?

I don't see Silva getting cleared for the Real Deal, or Barnett.

Mirko will get a shot at Fedor, but I feel as good as Mirko is right now Fedor will come in better.(Isn't Fedor training with Ernesto Hoost lately?) Fedor will take the rematch again.

[Sever]

Sever, and not a single word about the pride girls? tsk tsk tsk :confused:I'm still examining the picture :D

[neryo_tkd]

hahahaha ok, i can wait :D

concerning Mirko and Fedor, i agree with A.
I also think that fedor will win the fight. i don't know how Fedor is recovering from the surgeries but at the moment I don't see anyone beat him. but I'm really glad mirko won the GP.

[Sever]

All I have to say about the Pride girls is

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/LabRat429/giggity.jpg

:D


I won't be too surprised if Silva fights at the US event - he wasn't KO'd on American soil in an NSAC-sanctioned event. I don't know whether they'll care, plus he was allowed to go back to Brazil, so no serious head injuries. I see Silva seriously RUINING whoever he fights next. He's a very proud guy, and I'd hate to be his next opponent after this (hell, I'd hate to be his opponent at any time). I seriously think he bulked up too much for this event
Barnett, if he's got a broken orbital bone, may or may not be on the card for the US show. I don't know how long they take to heal up, but if he's 80% and fighting a can, he'll probably agree to do it

[Apotheosis]

I honestly do not see Silva fighting in October at all, the NSAC is likely going to be cautious with Pride's debut and both them and Pride do not want to see him get hurt badly.

Just one look at that video and the NSAC will say "Not a chance". His eye as seriously messed up, head split open, likely a concussion of some sorts and speculation of a few broken ribs.

I don't see Silva wrecking whoever he fights, depending on who he fights. If he gets fed a can which is likely then he will obviously be the same old Silva. If he gets serious competition then I see him having some problems.

If he fights a good striker I see him going down again, good thing I can't think of a A class striker in his division.

Anyone think Mirko should cut a little weight to get to 205 if Fedor beats him again? If he drops weight, I see him demolishing Silva again and taking that division by storm.

As to him bulking up too much, I have to disagree. I don't think that had anything to do with it. His style of fighting was his problem, he leaves himself wide open and Mirko had both the ability and power necessary to make him pay. Same thing will happen if they fight again, unless Silva changes his style of striking which I don't see happening.

[Sever]

I honestly do not see Silva fighting in October at all, the NSAC is likely going to be cautious with Pride's debut and both them and Pride do not want to see him get hurt badly.

Just one look at that video and the NSAC will say "Not a chance". His eye as seriously messed up, head split open, likely a concussion of some sorts and speculation of a few broken ribs.I don't know that they WILL watch the video to be honest. It's not their turf, not even their country, and it's a month clear after the event. They've sanctioned people after being dropped like that in a short time afterwards. Hell, they've sanctioned boxers to fight twice in the same month after getting KO'd two weeks before. I think it'll mostly depend on who's on the board (and whether they understand the concept of "can opening") and how his pre-fight medicals show up. If the ribs ARE broken, he's out, they don't heal that quick, but a swollen eye and a concussion will most likely be cleared up by October

I don't see Silva wrecking whoever he fights, depending on who he fights. If he gets fed a can which is likely then he will obviously be the same old Silva. If he gets serious competition then I see him having some problems.You just disagree for the sake of it sometimes, don't you ;) Silva's never been beaten like this since Belfort and every time he's lost before he's worked harder and come back better. He'll be an ANGRY Silva this time, that's not something you wanna be in the ring with. I doubt he'll face a serious competitor before Shockwave though - probably Little Nog. Should be a good match if it happens

If he fights a good striker I see him going down again, good thing I can't think of a A class striker in his division.He's fought good strikers before. The difference is that Crocop's beyond a "good striker," he's a former K-1 GP finalist that caught him with arguably the hardest single strike in MMA. Hell, that kick practically had flames on it - I doubt anyone else he'll ever face can do that. He's fought good strikers and will do again, it's just that Crocop's on another level on the feet
Anyone think Mirko should cut a little weight to get to 205 if Fedor beats him again? If he drops weight, I see him demolishing Silva again and taking that division by storm.I'm not sure it'd be a good move. He's always been around the weight he is now, dropping down at this point in his career may not be the best move for him. Unlike guys like Couture, Crocop hasn't wrestled so he's not used to cutting weight, the drop may affect his game the way it did Vovchenchyn's when he dropped down
As to him bulking up too much, I have to disagree. I don't think that had anything to do with it. His style of fighting was his problem, he leaves himself wide open and Mirko had both the ability and power necessary to make him pay. Same thing will happen if they fight again, unless Silva changes his style of striking which I don't see happeningHe seriously seemed uncomfortable at that kind of weight to me. Yeah, he came in wild like always and that's always gonna be a problem against someone who throws nasty straight punches like Crocop does, but he didn't look like he felt right moving at that size. There was a bit much on his 5'11 frame (considering he's normally between 200-210), I think. Tactics were his main problem, as was Crocop being at his absolute best that night, but I genuinely believe it was a contributing factor

[Apotheosis]

I don't know that they WILL watch the video to be honest. It's not their turf, not even their country, and it's a month clear after the event. They've sanctioned people after being dropped like that in a short time afterwards. Hell, they've sanctioned boxers to fight twice in the same month after getting KO'd two weeks before. I think it'll mostly depend on who's on the board (and whether they understand the concept of "can opening") and how his pre-fight medicals show up. If the ribs ARE broken, he's out, they don't heal that quick, but a swollen eye and a concussion will most likely be cleared up by October

Your right, they may not watch it. But all it would take is for one overly concerned doctor or one mma fan among them to "ruin" it.

"Puts on tinfoil hat" Not to mention it would be smart of the UFC who has ties to the NSAC to show them the video discreetly.

They have allowed other fights soon after a knockout, but Silva was demolished and the finishing shot was a brutal leg to the head which is something I have never seen a boxer go through. I can't say for sure how extensive his injuries are, but after seeing some close up pics of his ribs during the fight it looked liek a few were broken.


You just disagree for the sake of it sometimes, don't you Silva's never been beaten like this since Belfort and every time he's lost before he's worked harder and come back better. He'll be an ANGRY Silva this time, that's not something you wanna be in the ring with. I doubt he'll face a serious competitor before Shockwave though - probably Little Nog. Should be a good match if it happens

I do sometimes, but not now. He has only been beaten like this twice, but when was the last time he fought a real quality striker?

Rampage has good strikes, but he is wild like Silva....


He's fought good strikers before. The difference is that Crocop's beyond a "good striker," he's a former K-1 GP finalist that caught him with arguably the hardest single strike in MMA. Hell, that kick practically had flames on it - I doubt anyone else he'll ever face can do that. He's fought good strikers and will do again, it's just that Crocop's on another level on the feet


Who? Last one I can think of is Rampage and he isn't a great technical striker. You are correct that Mirko has great stand-up and I'm not saying that kick wouldn't have knocked anyone else out.

He was picked apart by Mirko, I remember a friend asking me if this guy had ever fought before and he was astounded to find out he was MW champ.


I'm not sure it'd be a good move. He's always been around the weight he is now, dropping down at this point in his career may not be the best move for him. Unlike guys like Couture, Crocop hasn't wrestled so he's not used to cutting weight, the drop may affect his game the way it did Vovchenchyn's when he dropped down

I also am not sure, but he wouldn't be cutting a ton of weight(5-10 lbs max which he could regain in water weight quick) plus if he loses to Fedor where else does he have to go? I would say down to MW or to the UFC to become a champ there.


He seriously seemed uncomfortable at that kind of weight to me. Yeah, he came in wild like always and that's always gonna be a problem against someone who throws nasty straight punches like Crocop does, but he didn't look like he felt right moving at that size. There was a bit much on his 5'11 frame (considering he's normally between 200-210), I think. Tactics were his main problem, as was Crocop being at his absolute best that night, but I genuinely believe it was a contributing factor




He didn't seem uncomfortable to me at that weight, obviously without asking him I can't be sure. Plus that is closer to his natural weight, as he usually cuts 10 lbs to make weight. If anything he should have been faster, smoother etc.. since he didn't have to cut weight. Either way I don't see Silva beating Mirko ever no matter his weight(unles she tricks Mirko into dropping down to a stupid weight like 185)

Anyway's I think Silva is on his way out in Pride, Shogun should take the belt soon and if Silva fights another good striker(technical, not another wild swinger like himself) I see it going the same way.

MMA is evolving to the point where you can't leave yourself open the way he does without getting beaten and unless he evolves with it I see up and comers beating him.

[Sever]

Your right, they may not watch it. But all it would take is for one overly concerned doctor or one mma fan among them to "ruin" it.

"Puts on tinfoil hat" Not to mention it would be smart of the UFC who has ties to the NSAC to show them the video discreetly.Possible, but like I say, it can go either way. Boxers have been allowed to go a couple of weeks afterwards after some brutal stoppages. No, they may not have taken head kicks, but they get punched in the head a lot more than most MMA fighters due to the format and rounds.

I do sometimes, but not now. He has only been beaten like this twice, but when was the last time he fought a real quality striker?

Rampage has good strikes, but he is wild like Silva....Rampage's striking is nowhere near "wild like Silva's" most of the time - he's usually straight down the middle and working the crazy monkey defence like a master - how did he outstrike Liddell? Straight punches. Sure, sometimes he gets wild when he smells blood, but so do most fighters

Who? Last one I can think of is Rampage and he isn't a great technical striker. You are correct that Mirko has great stand-up and I'm not saying that kick wouldn't have knocked anyone else out.Oh, I dunno. Mark Hunt (political loss)? Yvel? Mezger's wasn't bad in his day and Rampage's striking's way better than you seem to think. We'll see how his striking's evolved if/ when he gets in there with Noguiera, he's got very good technical boxing and enough power to make it interesting
He was picked apart by Mirko, I remember a friend asking me if this guy had ever fought before and he was astounded to find out he was MW champ.Who's disputing that Crocop picked him apart? He tried the same game that Fedor and Hunt used to keep the pressure on and Crocop was ready for it. It happens. Everyone loses, it doesn't mean they're no good
I also am not sure, but he wouldn't be cutting a ton of weight(5-10 lbs max which he could regain in water weight quick) plus if he loses to Fedor where else does he have to go? I would say down to MW or to the UFC to become a champ there.Crocop weighs 220-225. That's 15-20lbs he's got to drop to make weight. Have you ever cut weight? That kind of drop would take most people way out of their game (I cut eight last time I had a grappling match and I felt like hell), especially if they weren't used to it. He'd have to fully lose some weight to be able to cut comfortably and some people don't perform as well after a large weight drop. Some do, it's all speculation anyway, Crocop probably won't drop down and I'll buy an emo CD before he fights in the UFC
He didn't seem uncomfortable to me at that weight, obviously without asking him I can't be sure. Plus that is closer to his natural weight, as he usually cuts 10 lbs to make weight. If anything he should have been faster, smoother etc.. since he didn't have to cut weight. Either way I don't see Silva beating Mirko ever no matter his weight(unles she tricks Mirko into dropping down to a stupid weight like 185)You're missing the point - this wasn't Silva who hadn't had to cut any weight, this was Silva who'd put on LOADS. Look at how he looked as recently as the Fujita match compared to the weigh ins, he looked enormous. To me, his fighting style just didn't look as explosive as normal and I think the extra weight was detrimental. He still got beaten, and I'm taking nothing away from Crocop

Anyway's I think Silva is on his way out in Pride, Shogun should take the belt soon and if Silva fights another good striker(technical, not another wild swinger like himself) I see it going the same way.

MMA is evolving to the point where you can't leave yourself open the way he does without getting beaten and unless he evolves with it I see up and comers beating him.This really annoys me everytime you do this man. This isn't Sherdog and a fighter is not only as good as his last fight. You seem to think that whenever someone loses, they're done. This isn't the case. How many times has Silva lost in his weight class in the last seven years? Once, a decision in a two round GP match. He's a long way from being done. Sure, he'll lose again, everyone does, but getting KO'd by Crocop doesn't mean he's on the way out. At all. Shogun is his natural successor, but he's a while away from being there, Silva's just 30, he's got a while left in him
We can dispense with the spoiler tags now it's aired everywhere

[Apotheosis]

Possible, but like I say, it can go either way. Boxers have been allowed to go a couple of weeks afterwards after some brutal stoppages. No, they may not have taken head kicks, but they get punched in the head a lot more than most MMA fighters due to the format and rounds.

It's true they get punched in the head more often, but most boxing "experts" which is what the NSAC is really made up of don't really know/care that getting peppered in the head is worse than getting knocked out with one punch.


Rampage's striking is nowhere near "wild like Silva's" most of the time - he's usually straight down the middle and working the crazy monkey defence like a master - how did he outstrike Liddell? Straight punches. Sure, sometimes he gets wild when he smells blood, but so do most fighters


Too bad he didn't use those straights more often against Silva, would likely have worked just as well as against Liddel.


Oh, I dunno. Mark Hunt (political loss)? Yvel? Mezger's wasn't bad in his day and Rampage's striking's way better than you seem to think. We'll see how his striking's evolved if/ when he gets in there with Noguiera, he's got very good technical boxing and enough power to make it interesting

From what I remember Mark beat Silva during the stand-up, knocking him down several times. Only reason it was a close decision is because Hunt has little ground game and Silva was able to take advantage of that.


Who's disputing that Crocop picked him apart? He tried the same game that Fedor and Hunt used to keep the pressure on and Crocop was ready for it. It happens. Everyone loses, it doesn't mean they're no good


Not saying he isn't good, just that he isn't as good as a lot of people think(including myself in the past).


Crocop weighs 220-225. That's 15-20lbs he's got to drop to make weight. Have you ever cut weight? That kind of drop would take most people way out of their game (I cut eight last time I had a grappling match and I felt like hell), especially if they weren't used to it. He'd have to fully lose some weight to be able to cut comfortably and some people don't perform as well after a large weight drop. Some do, it's all speculation anyway, Crocop probably won't drop down and I'll buy an emo CD before he fights in the UFC

Yea I have cut weight, not that much but I'm not claiming to be an expert. Pretty well known that many of the best fighters regularily cut weight in that range, Hughes, Franklin, Silva, Shogun, Liddel etc... Again not saying he will or even should drop down, it was just a thought.


You're missing the point - this wasn't Silva who hadn't had to cut any weight, this was Silva who'd put on LOADS. Look at how he looked as recently as the Fujita match compared to the weigh ins, he looked enormous. To me, his fighting style just didn't look as explosive as normal and I think the extra weight was detrimental. He still got beaten, and I'm taking nothing away from Crocop

I disagree, I don't think he put on loads... Lets say he usually cuts 10 lbs or so before a fight... That means he only gained 5-10 lbs of muscle and that shouldn't really have effected him a lot. He looked good agaisnt Fujita and he seemed normal against Mirko.


This really annoys me everytime you do this man. This isn't Sherdog and a fighter is not only as good as his last fight. You seem to think that whenever someone loses, they're done. This isn't the case. How many times has Silva lost in his weight class in the last seven years? Once, a decision in a two round GP match.

No, I don't think he is done...But look at his recent fights.

Loss to Arona, then beat him via decision(very close), beats Fujita(good win) and then is demolished against Mirko. Now again, I am not saying he is done simply that I don't see him coming back and dominating any longer. I don't rate him in the top 3 in his weight division and when I look at him compared to up and coming fighters I think he is in for some trouble.. Judging simply from the UFC crop of young fighters(know squat about Prides) the fighters are coming in with great ground game, and great technical striking. I think we will see more and more great boxers/kickboxers getting into the sport and Silva's style doesn't match up with good technical striking.

I give him at the most 1 more year of having the belt but after that he will slope off unless he adapts(very possible, he has the speed/power plus cardio for days. Not to mention he has the heart of a champ and if he sets his mind to it I wouldn't put it past him to develop great technical striking. Not saying he shouldn't be aggresive but he throws non-stop hooks and a few jabs/uppercuts would aid him greatly)


He's a long way from being done. Sure, he'll lose again, everyone does, but getting KO'd by Crocop doesn't mean he's on the way out. At all. Shogun is his natural successor, but he's a while away from being there, Silva's just 30, he's got a while left in him
We can dispense with the spoiler tags now it's aired everywhere


Again, he isn't done nor am I claiming he is. But unless he adapts he won't last more than a year as champ.

[Sever]

It's the same thing as always with you - someone you pick to win loses, then you're all "They're not that good really, they're on the way out" then proceeding to tell us how they should have fought, trained etc. It's ridiculous and it belongs on Sherdog with the rest of the fairweather fans. I mean come on, he gets picked apart by a K-1 GP finalist striker fighting outside his weight class and now suddenly you're not ranking Wanderlei Silva at top 3 at 205lbs?!
Everything else you've said is just disagreement for disagreement's sake. You know it and I'm sick of seeing it

[Apotheosis]

It's the same thing as always with you - someone you pick to win loses, then you're all "They're not that good really, they're on the way out" then proceeding to tell us how they should have fought, trained etc.

I have only said that twice from what I can remember, the two being Babalu and Silva.

The reason I change my opinion of them, is because the original opinion was wrong....If Fedor comes out and loses in a devestating fashion then I will change my opinion of him as well....

I change my opinion due to the way they lost...

Babalu got embarrased and while I never said he is done, I did say I thought he was done in the UFC or in for a long battle to get another title shot assuming Chuck doesn;t give up his belt anytime soon... He was hyped up almost solely based on his 10 fight win streak, and then crash his win streak was over and now how can he be hyped? Ortiz hasn't "earned" a shot but he can be hyped...

Wandy was destroyed, and yes it was to a AWESOME striker but he was still destroyed.

Mirko is in a class of his own as far as striking goes, but there are other great strikers that Silva will see and unless he changes his style he will lose to them..

As to my opinion on how they should train and how they should fight, it's my opinion and I never said otherwise... Silva got picked apart with straight lefts so it is common sense to say he should have trained with someone to better prepare against Mirko's favorite punch...

If you see someone run into a fight with their hands down, is it "stupid" to say they should put their hands up?


It's ridiculous and it belongs on Sherdog with the rest of the fairweather fans. I mean come on, he gets picked apart by a K-1 GP finalist striker fighting outside his weight class and now suddenly you're not ranking Wanderlei Silva at top 3 at 205lbs?!

His weight has nothing to do with his loss, he was heavier than Mirko and if you say it is because he bulked up too much then that is his fault...Are you "telling us how he should have trained?"

Fighters are constantly re-evaluated after each fight, which is what I did after I saw him lose I looked at what I saw from it followed with what I saw by Arona.

If your curious I rank them

1.Shogun
2.Arona
3.Liddel
4.Silva


Everything else you've said is just disagreement for disagreement's sake. You know it and I'm sick of seeing it

No, it really isn't.

If your sick of seeing it, to be honest I don't really care. I am simply posting my opinion and it is not simply for the sake of disagreeing.

[Sever]

I have only said that twice from what I can remember, the two being Babalu and Silva.

The reason I change my opinion of them, is because the original opinion was wrong....If Fedor comes out and loses in a devestating fashion then I will change my opinion of him as well....

I change my opinion due to the way they lost...Firstly, you'll have to excuse me for coming off as harsh. It's been a rotten day and I lashed out unnecessarily for which I apologise
Your first point - this is something I dislike about fans in many sports. Fairweather fans really do suck. Changing opinions due to losing in one match kinda grates on me - anyone can get beaten soundly, pretty much everyone has been and like I said earlier: a fighter is not only as good as their last fight. I like to look at their career as a whole before proclaiming that they were never really that good or that they're on their way out
Babalu got embarrased and while I never said he is done, I did say I thought he was done in the UFC or in for a long battle to get another title shot assuming Chuck doesn;t give up his belt anytime soon... He was hyped up almost solely based on his 10 fight win streak, and then crash his win streak was over and now how can he be hyped? Ortiz hasn't "earned" a shot but he can be hyped...Babalu can be hyped simply because he's a good, exciting fighter that people like to watch (something the UFC's crap division dearly needs). So he's not in an instant rematch with Liddell, it doesn't mean he's done with the UFC
As to my opinion on how they should train and how they should fight, it's my opinion and I never said otherwise... Silva got picked apart with straight lefts so it is common sense to say he should have trained with someone to better prepare against Mirko's favorite punch...

If you see someone run into a fight with their hands down, is it "stupid" to say they should put their hands up?

His weight has nothing to do with his loss, he was heavier than Mirko and if you say it is because he bulked up too much then that is his fault...Are you "telling us how he should have trained?"You've missed my point. At no point have I claimed that he "should've known better than to put on the weight" or that it was to blame for him losing to a superior fighter. I've said I thought his extra size was most likely a contributing factor
The difference between the way we do it is, again, part of the whole. You give it the "He fought like a moron, got embarrassed, you need to do XYZ to be a champion" whereas I've looked at the match as a whole and tried to avoid any "fighter bashing" as I always do. Frankly, the way you do it rankles me slightly and in my cranky mood, I called you on it because win, lose or draw, these people get in a ring or cage and put their health on the line for our entertainment and I feel they deserve the utmost respect for that

Fighters are constantly re-evaluated after each fight, which is what I did after I saw him lose I looked at what I saw from it followed with what I saw by Arona.Arona is a very different fighter though, and is a difficult fight for anyone who's not a seriously high-calibur wrestler which Silva isn't

If your curious I rank them

1.Shogun
2.Arona
3.Liddel
4.SilvaI don't think you can rank someone he's beaten recently as two places above Silva. One, yeah, I'd consider (though disagree with), but in no way is Arona the number two LHW in the world. Ranking Liddell above Silva would be controversial, but plausable
No, it really isn't.

If your sick of seeing it, to be honest I don't really care. I am simply posting my opinion and it is not simply for the sake of disagreeing.You've openly admitted that you do disagree for the sake of it. That's something which really doesn't fly on MAP as it tends to make threads degenerate into circular affairs which ruin other members enjoyment of the forum. You may not be doing it this time, but I'm going to have to ask that you not do it anymore, OK?

[Apotheosis]

Firstly, you'll have to excuse me for coming off as harsh. It's been a rotten day and I lashed out unnecessarily for which I apologise

Understandable, we all have bad days.


Your first point - this is something I dislike about fans in many sports. Fairweather fans really do suck. Changing opinions due to losing in one match kinda grates on me - anyone can get beaten soundly, pretty much everyone has been and like I said earlier: a fighter is not only as good as their last fight.

Your right, they arn't as good as their last fight. Everyone can have a poor performance, or be sick, or just unlucky.

I look at it differently though, each fight effects my opinion of a fighter just as each drawing effects my opinion of my artist.

I'm not so much jumping off of his bandwagon of Silva's(I still love how he fights, acts, talks etc..) as I am hitting the brakes on it. I still think he is a great fighter, just that he is not as great as I thought. Kinda like if Fedor ever loses, it will make him "mortal" but currently he seems untouchable.


I like to look at their career as a whole before proclaiming that they were never really that good or that they're on their way out
Babalu can be hyped simply because he's a good, exciting fighter that people like to watch (something the UFC's crap division dearly needs). So he's not in an instant rematch with Liddell, it doesn't mean he's done with the UFC

If I said he was never good, then I am a moron. Same goes for Babalu. They are both good, Silva more so than Babalu, I simply overrated them which is my fault.


You've missed my point. At no point have I claimed that he "should've known better than to put on the weight" or that it was to blame for him losing to a superior fighter. I've said I thought his extra size was most likely a contributing factor

Fair enough, just like I think his lack of jab defense and predictable attack(hooks, hooks, more hooks) was a contributing factor.


The difference between the way we do it is, again, part of the whole. You give it the "He fought like a moron, got embarrassed, you need to do XYZ to be a champion" whereas I've looked at the match as a whole and tried to avoid any "fighter bashing" as I always do. Frankly, the way you do it rankles me slightly and in my cranky mood, I called you on it because win, lose or draw, these people get in a ring or cage and put their health on the line for our entertainment and I feel they deserve the utmost respect for that

Yea, I'll be honest and admit I am pretty blunt in my descriptions/critique. I don't look at it as fighter bashing, as I totally respect anyone who steps into a ring/octagon.

What you see as fighter bashing I simply see as blunt critique. I hate dancing around subjects, and prefer to give my blunt but honest opinion.


Arona is a very different fighter though, and is a difficult fight for anyone who's not a seriously high-calibur wrestler which Silva isn't

Yes he is, world class ground game and from what we saw in his recent fight he actually was aggresive and tried to finish it.


I don't think you can rank someone he's beaten recently as two places above Silva. One, yeah, I'd consider (though disagree with), but in no way is Arona the number two LHW in the world. Ranking Liddell above Silva would be controversial, but plausable

That's the thing, their record is equal, both have a loss and a win against the other but I see Arona's loss as much, much closer than the first. If he actually becomes aggressive and tries to finish fights he will end up finishing them. He had Silva on the ground both fights, but instead of aggressively looking to finish it he was very conservative. Just my opinion, but I think if Arona learns some aggression and develops a style that actually finishes fights then I see him doing very well.

I think in a rematch Arona would beat Silva, presuming the aggression we saw against Overreem wasn't a fluke. I place him ahead of Chuck because I think he could take Chuck down and keep him there. Of course thats just a guess since we likely won't ever see that fight.




You've openly admitted that you do disagree for the sake of it. That's something which really doesn't fly on MAP as it tends to make threads degenerate into circular affairs which ruin other members enjoyment of the forum. You may not be doing it this time, but I'm going to have to ask that you not do it anymore, OK?


I do disagree sometimes for the sake of it, but I keep that in the off-topic section where it is more loose and less "serious".

I don't argue for the sake of it when discussing MMA, because I actually enjoy it as opposed to Catholics R Evil and "The government is lying to you, M&M's really do melt in your hand"