Advice needed on a style...

[Alpha_Lord]

Hello guys. I am new to martial arts, and I was wondering if you guys could help me out in choosing a style (or two).

I want a style that is more realistic as opposed to show. For example: my friend has been taking tae kwon doe for three years, but the other day we were just messing around, put some gloves and foot padding on, and I easily beat him. He's around my size and weight, too. I'm thinking that either those were three wasted years, or tae kwon doe doesn't translate well to real fighting.

I want a martial art that translates extremely well to real fighting.

I mean, what use is a martial art if you can't defend yourself with it?!

I did some research, and I found that Ju Jitsu is quite realistic, and you learn fighting tecniques at lower belt levels than in other styles. In the words of one website, "Beginner Ju Jutsu students were learning what Shadokan Karate students learn at Brown and Black belt levels."

I also thought I'd study Ninjitsu. I have no real idea what they teach, but I believe it focuses on tecnique rather than power. I thought perhaps learning two opposite styles (Ju Jitsu and Ninjitsu) would make me able to blend the best of them nicely. Ninjitsu also sounds a lot like "ninja"...is this the martial art of the ninjas? It would be awesome to learn to be a ninja...:p

Also, does anybody know what Bruce Lee's style was? I saw a biography on him, and it said he invented his own style, and wrote a book on it. Is this style actually taught? Again, as with the ninja style, it would be awesome to learn Bruce Lee's style.

There are my thoughts on schools, now let me tell you exactly what I'm kind of looking for. I want to punch and kick...throwing and grappling aren't as important, but they would be nice to learn, too. I also took Western sword fighting lessons, and learning how to fight with an Eastern sword style would also be great.


To recap: What school (or two schools) would translate very well to actual, REAL fights, would teach both punching and kicking in a primary role, with grappling and throwing secondary, and would teach sword fighting?

Thanks a ton for your time, both in reading this and responding. :)

[Aegis]

As far as I'm aware, modern Jujutsu and ninjutsu actually aren't that different in technique. The two arts both have quite a few offshoots anyway, so even one style of jujutsu isn't likely to be the same as another.

Bruce Lee invented a concept called Jeet Kune Do, which is taught in a few places.

Beginner Jujutsu students probably wouldn't be taught stuff that browns and blacks are taught in a style of karate, unless it's a karate style incorporating some grappling in at a higher level, in which case it's a bit of an unfair comparisson. There are some things that the karate student will always be better than the jujutsu student at (strikes), but the jujutsu student is generally well rounded and able to hold his own in striking and grappling situations.


Generally speaking, there is no "best art". The "best art" is the one that works best for you.

[Razor]

First off- Your friend the TKD student may not be studying martial arts for self-defense, maybe he wanted fitness and flexibility? Just exercise?

Anyhow, I am partial to Kempo/Kenpo because it is geared toward self-defense and the techniques, while basic, are designed around street effectiveness- It has both kicks and punches and most Kempo styles have some joint locks and throws also- Some have weapons but dunno about techniques with a Katana (Kenjutsu teaches that, and Kendo is a sporty version of the same-) There are MANY styles of Kempo but you should see what is in your area- and watch or try a class befoe signing up-

Oh yeah- Bruce Lee studied Wing Chun (Tsun) under the great Yip-Man when he was younger then developed Jeet-Kune-Do (Way of the Intercepting Fist-) after that...


Just find a good "root" art that teaches you the basics, then after you are reasonably competent supplement your main style with a grappling art (Brazilian Jujitsu), weapons art, throwing art (Judo, Jujitsu, Aikido) etc. and remember these arts come from different parts of the world so finding a Kempo Dojo that teaches the Katana, or a Soft style (Any Kung-Fu style) that teaches Nunchaku may not be feasible...

Keep us posted and good luck with school and training!

james

[teacher]

Hi there Alpha join in and enjoy.
There is a fairly standard answer to this type of question that runs a bit like this.....
Where are you and what classes/styles are available where you are?
Go in and try some of the classes. It is crucial that you enjoy the class.
We all have different opinions about "best style" what you enjoy and what you stick at will be your best style.
Many of us have tried different styles through the years and we are all posting here cos we love it.
Let us know what's in your area and you'll get a lot more advice.

[Zamfoo]

my advice would be to check out what's in your area and go take a look at the classes. I dunno about everyone else but i'd stay away if they didn't let me watch or pay to watch. Just look around and see what style appeals to you. The is no real "best" style.

[Alpha_Lord]

I live in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. I believe there's quite a few different styles being taught in my city. Looking in the yellow pages, there is: Ninjutsu, Bujutsu, Jujutsu, Kung-Fu, Arashi-do Karate, Hap Ki-do, Tae Kwon-do, Kum Sul-do, Budo-Ryo Kempo Karate, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Budo Taijutsu, Aikido, Muay Thai Kickboxing, Tai Chi and Wushu, Kempo, Shotokan Karate, Boxing, Wing Chun, Judo, Renbukai Karate, Jeet Kune do, Shao-Lin Kung-Fu, Qin-Na, Qi-Gong, Wu-Dang Tai-Chi, Bak Fu Pai, Shaolin Wushu, and Shoranji Kempo.

*Wipes sweat off brow* Well, that's what I have to choose from.

I believe I've settled on one: Martial Elements Dojo. It says it teaches Ninjutsu (Ninjas!), Jeet Kune do (Bruce Lee!), and Arnis/Kali (?). I don't know how good the master is though...in these other ads it says, "9th Dan" or "World Champion" or "Winner of 16 Gold Medals," etc. In this ad it says nothing of the sort...ah well. This'll be my secondary school...I want to learn two styles simultaneously.

Now to choose a primary style. Kempo sounds good, Razor. Did you mean Kempo Karate (another friend takes this, and I bet he could beat me like I beat the TKD student), or did you mean just Kempo? I've found advertisements for both.

Anybody have any ideas other than Kempo that is more focused on street effectiveness? All input is appreciated.

Also, can anyone confirm for me that Ninjutsu is the art of the ninjas? That just sounds way too cool...

[teacher]

Go into the class Alpha. A great instuctor is more important than a great style taught by a poor instructor.
I'm a big fan of Jeet Kune Do and Kali but I'm not in the class in Calgary could be rubbish for all I know.
We'll all pick our style out of that list and tell you it's great for us if you want us to.
Yes ninjutsu is the fighting art of the ninjas although even that is subject to some qualification. Ninjas used weapons to kill people how hardcore do you want it?

[WhiteWizard]

I think once you start out its more important to find a good teacher who you can learn from rather than a style of course you have to do something you enjoy but don't go in with the illusion that training in something will make you win every confrontation you are ever in

[Kof_Andy]

Any style can be effective in self defense situation. Is the teacher and student that really matters. Sounds to me like your friend wasnt taught well, or he didnt put enough effort in it to make it work. Or maybe he just wasnt a decent martial artist, you can have the world most gifted teacher to teach and have the most incordinated student, and if the student got beat badly it has nothing to do with the style/teacher. Dont doubt about styles you do not know.:mad:

[tai-gip]

Every style can be effective based on the student who applies the knowledge most styles have free introductorey classes why dont you try each style and find where you feel most comfortable ....you can always learn differant moves latter but you will learn best in a comfortable enviroment that matches or at least suits your attitude... essentialy just dive right in and start learning :D :D

[mild7]

TO give you a straight up, honest answer..... (no beating around the bush)


if all you want is to become an excellent, man to man fighter, and you are ok with training your guts out with fullcontact sparring. then....

I'd do MUAY THAI for the striking, and BRAZILIAN JIUJITSU( not traditional jujitsu) for the grappling.
Stick to this combination, and you'll be a great fighter in no time. The Brazilian no rules fighting team(brazilian top team) train in exactly this combination. They are at the top of the league for No Rules fighting(PRIDE FC JAPAN). Any one that would challenge them to a fight would be insane.

Then again, depends on exactly what you want. All martial arts have benefits. But you asked a question, and here is my honest to god answer!!! good luck

[mild7]

Also,

since you are fight oriented, I'd avoid styles that don't do fullcontact sparring. Not that they are bad but they won't fit into your way of thinking.

Kempo, Ninjutsu, are all good too. But they don't spar full contact. You wont necesarily be a good fighter by doing these styles, but you will learn to take care of yourself. There is a difference between that!!

[saikyou]

Muay Thai. It also has some grappling techniques but most schools focuses on striking. Jeet Kune Do is also good.

[KenpoDavid]

"Kempo Karate" is just a marketing slogan. it's prolly just Kempo of some variety.

Visit a few schools and ask questions. Ask where the instructors were trained and by who, then go to google.com and search on those names. You never know what you will find...

[Sphyerion]

Few things to start with: JKD is not a style. It's more of a philosophy i believe... go look for the original Bruce Lee's documentation on it. It'll explain everything you need to know.

Also, applying martial arts to real combat can often be the task of the student. Many martial artists spend day and night following their instructor's everyword, but they don't truly understand why they are doing waht they do. If you do this, I assure you, no matter how many countless techniques you learn, you won't be very effective in real combat. What will make you combat worthy, is if you understand the underlying principle and reasonings for the techniques that you do. This way, once you know the fundamentals, you can change and modify any move to an infinite number of varying moves. Learning to do an excellent punch is pointless, but if you understand why your punch is excellent, you can achieve the same thing with your foot, your shoulder, a stick, or for that matter, your head. =) Good luck!

Personally speaking though: I am self-taught. I never had to deal with this whole choice thing, my style is my own...

[hedgehogey]

Getting in on the full contact nutriding here:

Go do something that spars full contact. That will generally mean Muay Thai, boxing, brazilian jiu jitsu or judo. The proof is in the pudding and the performance of these styles in anything goes matches speaks for itself.

[TigerAnsTKDLove]

alpha, i do tkd and it is effective. all m/a are effective. but go ahead and do jiu jitsu. all im saying is i do tkd and i get mad when people make comments about tkd like that so i aint saying much here........

[guran]

To recap: What school (or two schools) would translate very well to actual, REAL fights, would teach both punching and kicking in a primary role, with grappling and throwing secondary, and would teach sword fighting?

I think the best thing to do is to go to every school in your area and ask if you can watch a few classes. Watch beginners, intermediate and advanced if you are allowed. Don't worry about what the style is called, worry about what they are teaching. It is important to find a place where you are comfortable, and where you are getting the training that you were looking for, especially to start. As you gain experience, you may choose to switch later on.

Good Luck and enjoy!

[chenstyle44]

hi dragon,
come and check out our club Saturdays at Varsity community center from 3-430.
The first class is free and we are always looking for new members.
Gordon :D

[Banpen Fugyo]

Also,

Kempo, Ninjutsu, are all good too. But they don't spar full contact. You wont necesarily be a good fighter by doing these styles, but you will learn to take care of yourself. There is a difference between that!!

Oh, i guess since Im taking ninjutsu and we spar I must not be learning real ninjutsu. Thanks for telling me how my style works.

I'd do MUAY THAI for the striking, and BRAZILIAN JIUJITSU( not traditional jujitsu) for the grappling.
Stick to this combination, and you'll be a great fighter in no time. The Brazilian no rules fighting team(brazilian top team) train in exactly this combination. They are at the top of the league for No Rules fighting(PRIDE FC JAPAN). Any one that would challenge them to a fight would be insane.

Hm yes, warning brainwashing in effect. Way to press your ideals of a "perfect" system onto a newbie. I'd be happy fighting one of your elite bjj top team champions. I'll bring my knife and my sword, and my friends, and he can bring his gloves. Spreading statements like this, esp onto new guys is really aggrivating. My suggestion is to learn something you enjoy, from a GOOD INSTRUCTOR, and learn more about yourself and your body, after a few years if you decide its not for you, train in something else.

Btw, i didnt mean to single you out mild, or insult you or anything, but I dont think you should preach about how great your combination of systems in, when they are flawed from alot of other peoples perspectives. Just advise him to train in what he likes and enjoys, not what you like and enjoy.

[Banpen Fugyo]

heres another tip that will help him FIND THE STYLE HE LIKES. Talk to the instructors, and if you can, talk to the students without the instructor around. See what they like and what they get out of it and then move on to a different school. Ask the other instructors/students of a diff school the same thing. What exactly do you want to learn? Do you want a combat system? Do you want weapons training? Do you want a sport system? A lot of people preach to be an all encompassing art, or a REALISTIC MA, but try not to believe all of that, just look closer at how they are doing things and figure it out for yourself.

BTW, about your TKD friend, sometimes the hardest person to fight is the person with no style.

[David Field]

i Have a simple system of detering good from bad, i asked question to instructors about other systems, if they say you should try them and see what you like, then i respect them, if they slag off all other styles then i do not respect them and donot train.

[Banpen Fugyo]

Yeah, that def works, but not ALWAYS true. Sometimes SOMETIMES instructors truely believe their art to be the superior art in the whole world, which could lead you into a very good passionate learning experience, IF he can back it up. Just because your instructor thinks a certain way, doesnt mean you have to. I mean, all your really doing is using your instructor for the knowledge of the art. He's just a medium. If hes good hes good, even if he puts down other styles.

[Trinity]

I believe you need to ask yourself the question do i want to learn to fight or do i want to learn self defence. They are two different things fighting a person in a punch for punch kick for kick fight is fighting and self defence in defending your life as mild said before if you want to be a good one one one fighter muay thai and BJJ are awsome and for self defence i think japanese jujitzu or Kempo (kenpo). Have a look in the military at what they teach they have to fight for there lives. there is also a great style from Israel called Krav maga not sure of the spelling hope this is right.

[submittingU2]

like everyone else here says... pick a style that complements you and your needs. also... if you are going to take two styles, i would recomend you take totally different styles. take a striking style and a grappeling style. for me the choise was easy.... kick boxing and bjj. this gave me a great knowledge of striking and a great base for ground work. i feel at home in either situation! good luck on your choise.

any knowledge is better than none!

[Jumper53]

Yeah, that def works, but not ALWAYS true. Sometimes SOMETIMES instructors truely believe their art to be the superior art in the whole world, which could lead you into a very good passionate learning experience, IF he can back it up. Just because your instructor thinks a certain way, doesnt mean you have to. I mean, all your really doing is using your instructor for the knowledge of the art. He's just a medium. If hes good hes good, even if he puts down other styles.


Not only is the instructor a medium, so is the art, and the teaching style.

The more I train in my art and investigate others, the more similarities I find than differences. At the higher levels above black belt most arts seem to converge. Many linear arts start showing circular movements after black belt, and many circular arts show linear movements after black belt. Striking arts start teaching a little grappling and vice versa. Soft arts teach hard attacks and hard arts teach the value of softness. I think they all get you to the same place over time.

Some teachers throw a new student in and teach them the same things as senior students, others will take you through years of basics before showing senior techniques. But if you keep training long enough you will eventually master any art and be as good as any other Martial Artist out there.

The most important thing is finding a school where the personalities match yours. You want your decision to be a long term one so you must like, and trust your instructor. By visiting several schools your gut will tell you the best place to train.

[Jumper53]

By the way, you can come check out where I train. It is a little different school from the others represented in this thread since I mostly see BJJ and Tai. I highly recommend Grand Master Park's Korean Martial Arts (Hapkido). It is great for me, and it may be for you too.

[lowblows]

I think Gucci and Kenneth Cole are two good style choices. Of course, well tailored, form fitting clothes and you will need to take some highly technical, top secret martial art skills to keep the women off you. I know what you're thinking, but you're wrong. You can barely satisfy one women if you are lucky, more is not merrier.

However, I would suggest ground fighting in order to keep things under control with the first woman to attack you because of your style. Also, a good striking art can come in handy as well.

My favorite move has been, and will always be, plant foot...
...pivot...
...run like hell...

For more info, please read:
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19925

[lowblows]

alpha, i do tkd and it is effective. all m/a are effective. but go ahead and do jiu jitsu. all im saying is i do tkd and i get mad when people make comments about tkd like that so i aint saying much here........

Isn't TKD just for girls?


I am sooo kidding. But I had you for a moment!!

[Nomadwanders]

I want a style that is more realistic as opposed to show. For example: my friend has been taking tae kwon doe for three years, but the other day we were just messing around, put some gloves and foot padding on, and I easily beat him. He's around my size and weight, too. I'm thinking that either those were three wasted years, or tae kwon doe doesn't translate well to real fighting.

Did you fight with your friend before he started training? Even though you beat him, he may have improved tenfold over what he was...


"Beginner Ju Jutsu students were learning what Shadokan Karate students learn at Brown and Black belt levels."

This statement is an obvious marketing ploy and is full of crap. Beginner students (and advanced students too) of different styles learn different things at different times. 'nuff said.

In looking for schools nearby, I would suggest trying a few different schools. Most will not mind you attending a class or two to "try it out", and you will likely get to talk to the instructor. Let them know what your goals are, and see how their system/instruction/attitude fits with these.

Although there are plenty of good schools just starting out, you might prefer a well-established school with an experienced instructor.

Anyplace that promises you a black belt in two years - leave. Anywhere that has a "black belt club" where you pay a big upfront fee and waive membership fees for life - run. Anyplace more interested in talking about the money involved than the training you'll be doing - leave.

Hope this helps.

[niclans]

[QUOTE=Alpha_Lord]Hello guys. I am new to martial arts, and I was wondering if you guys could help me out in choosing a style (or two).

(I want a style that is more realistic as opposed to show. For example: my friend has been taking tae kwon doe for three years, but the other day we were just messing around, put some gloves and foot padding on, and I easily beat him. He's around my size and weight, too. I'm thinking that either those were three wasted years, or tae kwon doe doesn't translate well to real fighting.)

What the hell, your friend sucks. How the hell he learned TKD, what a waste of time. I learned TKD for 4 yrs now i'm BB. On most occassions, my skills and techniques are good enough to disposed challenge from a guy who knows nothing or little about MA.

But of course i will always train and improved my skills. Right now, other than TKD, i also train in shorinji kempo to increased my defense skills.

[ap Oweyn]

[QUOTE=Alpha_Lord]Hello guys. I am new to martial arts, and I was wondering if you guys could help me out in choosing a style (or two).

(I want a style that is more realistic as opposed to show. For example: my friend has been taking tae kwon doe for three years, but the other day we were just messing around, put some gloves and foot padding on, and I easily beat him. He's around my size and weight, too. I'm thinking that either those were three wasted years, or tae kwon doe doesn't translate well to real fighting.)

What the hell, your friend sucks. How the hell he learned TKD, what a waste of time. I learned TKD for 4 yrs now i'm BB. On most occassions, my skills and techniques are good enough to disposed challenge from a guy who knows nothing or little about MA.

But of course i will always train and improved my skills. Right now, other than TKD, i also train in shorinji kempo to increased my defense skills.

Dude, this guy hasn't been here in about three years.

[shootodog]

What the hell, your friend sucks. How the hell he learned TKD, what a waste of time. I learned TKD for 4 yrs now i'm BB. On most occassions, my skills and techniques are good enough to disposed challenge from a guy who knows nothing or little about MA.

But of course i will always train and improved my skills. Right now, other than TKD, i also train in shorinji kempo to increased my defense skills.

there are many people who are "gifted" in that way. there are those who are kinesthetically gifted that they can overcome physical challenges (like fighting) and there are those who are just "sanay sa away" (used to fighting) or "gamay sa away" (have a natural knack for it). some people, like myself, have to work very hard at it. so generalising that you could dispatch anyone without prior training is a bit far fetched. training improves your chances of doing just that, just not everyone.

to quote one of my teachers: anybody can kill anybody