Very Active, Can't Lose Fat

[adouglasmhor]

...I average 1900 to 2000 Kcal a day and live a very active lifestyle but still find it hard to kieep my body fat level down.

[Combatant]

Do you do weights?
Have you built any noticable muscle mass?
How many days a week do you train and what activities do you do?
What is your general diet like (do you eat a lot of refined foods, sugar etc)?
Do you eat breakfast?
Do you sleep well?
Are you content/happy with your life?
Whats you average weekly consumption of alcohol like?
How many feeds do oyu have a day?

There are quite literally a million questions i could ask you but the ones above are very relevent to fat loss and weight management in general. If you want to answer these for me as best you can I'll try and help you out.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

Just wondered becuase I average 1900 to 2000 Kcal a day and live a very active lifestyle but still find it hard to kieep my body fat level down.

one mans active lifestyle can be another mans pissant walk in the park- you probably need to be a bit more descriptive. i know guys who "think" they train pretty hard but in reality would probably die if they had to run more than 5km

[Ad McG]

I agree with Combatant here, if you could provide more information then maybe we could give you a bit more of the bigger picture and some directions to take. 2000cals a day is a tiny amount for the large majority of males.

[adouglasmhor]

I do 2 sessions of weights and machines (I know but weights at our local gym are very restricted and I have other valid personal reasons for going there) twice a week. I do 3 x 7 of squats at 450 lb, I do seated rows on a cable machine of 3 x 10 at 285 lb twice , I do overhead press 3 x 10 at 155 lb twice, lat pulldowns the same, Pullover at 240 lb 3 sets of 20, back lifts on a machine 240 lb 3 x 10, 2 x 20 minute sessions at level 4 on a stationary bike usualy forest ride for the first one and Alpine pass or fat burner for the last one. My HR goes to between 230 and 250 at the hardest bits.

I also do Taijutsu for 2 hours twice a week, usualy at just enough activity to make me and the rest of the class except a couple of very fit individuals break sweat.

My work involves porterage and at least once every week I Individualy move 80 x 13 kg boxes of paper by hand and probably spend an hour every day moving furniture or boxes of varying wieghts.

I do half an hour of rokushaku bo kata 3 times a week at lunchtime before I eat, again at enough speed to just break sweat and get my HR up a bit.

I walk about 3 miles a day most days walking my mums dog. I don't run but the lat time I did run I ran the 4 miles from the city centre in 31 minutes in the snow in dress shoes without stopping or getting puffed, I used to be a squaddie so I just treated it as a forced amrch, the buses had stopped because of a heavy snowfall.

heres a fairly typical days eating from my journal, sorry its come up a bit skewed the milk dessert was actualy soya as I have a dairy allergy but the list of foods does not have that, i laso eat fish at least 3 times a week. I do not have beer or chocolate or ice cream or crisps or short bread every day but it would be fair to say I have a small amount (2 squares chocolate, two beers a bag of crisps or two shortbreads, something like that0 one or more most days I also never eat white bread or rice and the cereals listed bellow are all wholegrain. I do eat breakfast usually porridge or sugar free cereal with rice milk or sometimes scrambled eggs with wholemeal toast, or honey or fruit spread (like jam but sweetened with grape or apple concentrate insteat of refined sugar) on wholemeal toast with peanut butter (unsweetened) , I usualy eat 4 or 5 times a day, sometimes less.

Food Name Servings Serving Size Cals Fat Carb Prot
Frankfurter or hot dog, meatless 420 21 17 42
Soyburger 140 6 6 15
Milk dessert, frozen, lowfat, flavors other than chocolate 261 1 56 8
Kashi, Puffed 42 0 9 2
Millet, puffed 37 0 7 1
Rice beverage 74 1 14 2
oatcake 150 3 30 6
Sandwich spread, meat substitute type 23 1 1 1
Pasta, corn, cooked 176 1 39 4
Vegetable stew without meat 135 2 23 6
Tea, leaf, unsweetened 5 0 1 0
Cereal beverage 10 0 2 0
Chocolate, sweet or dark 52 4 6 0
Beer 246 0 22 2
Totals 1770 41 235 88

I have got some bulk muscle build and over the last three years since I started training after going up to 22 stone following chemo I have got down to 17 st 8 lb I have put 3 inches on my chest (52" now and my man boobs have gone) and lost 6 inches of my waist (38") for some reason I have always had very muscly legs.

I am not unhappy with my life, I have a great GF , I hate my job and am constantly looking for a better one, I sleep well. I drink plenty of water.

Anything else you need to know or any clarification needed let me know and i will answer as honestly as I can.

I also have an old rotator cuff injury in my right shoulder so I am careful of this.

edited to add my standing heart rate is 42 and i return to it within 1 minute of climbing three flights of stairs

[Combatant]

Thanks for the detailed post.

Your diet is pretty good but you might want to consider upping your lean protien intake and reducing your carbs. Also try cutting out the treats all together. I didn't read anywhere that you were a vegan so would it be possible for you to ditch most of the soy products in favour of fresh fish?

you are lifting some good poundages there but I can't tell whether they are free weights or machines for each movement. Obviously the machine movement is generally a lot easier. A starting heartrate of 42 is very low and would definatly be one of the lowest I have seen in my career so your fitness does not seem to be an issue here.

What weight were you in the army? And what weight were you before you went into chemo? The reason I ask is that fat stores work similar to the muscle memory phenomenon, in that once you get fat, its easier to get back there then it was origionaly like bushidoka said in his above post due to hormones etc. You have lost a lot of weight so is it possible that you are still losing it but albeit just a little slower?

[adouglasmhor]

I eat fresh or frozen fish 3 times a week, just was none on the day I selected, I eat a lot of soy or tvp stuff as my gf is vegan, I eat goat cheese and sheep cheese as well maybe 1 or 2 oz two or three times a week. Only Squats are free weights, not really a facility for anything else at the gym I use.

I was 12 stone when i joined up 17 when I lest. in between I went up to 19 when i was playing rugby but I was 19 stone, 32" waist 54" chest and massive thighs and arms, I was training an average of 4 hours a day on non match days. but that was a very long time ago. Before chemo i was about 20 stone haveing climbed up to that over a long illness.

[Combatant]

I was 12 stone when i joined up 17 when I lest. in between I went up to 19 when i was playing rugby but I was 19 stone, 32" waist 54" chest and massive thighs and arms, I was training an average of 4 hours a day on non match days.

I know what squadies and rugb players are like, be honest, was it the beer monster that did this to you? :D J/k. 19 stone with a 32 inch waist!...Sounds to me like you are a mesomorph that just put on fat through the layoff during illness. The 17 stone you are now mostly sounds like muscle to me.

[adouglasmhor]

theres a thick band of fat that lives round my gut now and causes me grief, but it is declining slowly. And i thrived on the high protien (steak eggs fish lamb chicken aren't you glad your taxes were being well spent) high Guinness and chips diet, but i was about 1/2 the age i am now and the work load I did was a lot more.

[Cuchulain82]

theres a thick band of fat that lives round my gut now and causes me grief, but it is declining slowly. And i thrived on the high protien (steak eggs fish lamb chicken aren't you glad your taxes were being well spent) high Guinness and chips diet, but i was about 1/2 the age i am now and the work load I did was a lot more.
I'm not the expert that others here are (BeWater, Combatant, McG, etc) but you sound like an ideal candidate for HIIT. If you can lift 2-3 times a week doing compund lifts that make you sweat, weight will fly off you. There's no end to the different permutations that you can try, but if you try doing something like a tabata squat, or a minute-on, minute-off kettlebell clean and press, I think you'll really see results. Could I also recommend a MA that is has training that is a little more intense, like boxing or thaiboxing? An hour of training in ring time burns literally thousands of calories and will get you in amazing shape.

[Colucci]

...I started training after going up to 22 stone following chemo...
First, above all else, congratulations on getting through chemo.

I do 2 sessions of weights and machines (I know but weights at our local gym are very restricted and I have other valid personal reasons for going there) twice a week.
Am I correct in reading that you train twice a day, 2 days a week?

I do 3 x 7 of squats at 450 lb, I do seated rows on a cable machine of 3 x 10 at 285 lb twice , I do overhead press 3 x 10 at 155 lb twice, lat pulldowns the same, Pullover at 240 lb 3 sets of 20, back lifts on a machine 240 lb 3 x 10, 2 x 20 minute sessions at level 4 on a stationary bike usualy forest ride for the first one and Alpine pass or fat burner for the last one. My HR goes to between 230 and 250 at the hardest bits.
Squatting 450 for reps? Sweet. That sounds like a wicked intense bike ride as well. Possibly too intense.

I also do Taijutsu for 2 hours twice a week...at least once every week I Individualy move 80 x 13 kg boxes of paper by hand and probably spend an hour every day moving furniture or boxes of varying wieghts...I do half an hour of rokushaku bo kata 3 times a week...I walk about 3 miles a day most days...
That's quite a bit of work. There is a chance that you're simply overtraining, and could do well with a reduced volume workout for a while. Remember The Unofficial BeWater Guide to Awesomeness (Patent Pending): Move a little more. Eat a little less. Do neither to an extreme. While I'm sure the pooch enjoys the walk, maybe you could consider chopping that down to just a 15-20 minute stroll?

I also have an old rotator cuff injury in my right shoulder so I am careful of this.
How much of a problem is this? Meaning, does it still prevent you from doing any particular exercises?

I eat a lot of soy or tvp stuff as my gf is vegan
Women...ain't that always the way. Soy is very much less-than-ideal for guys. There have been a bunch of articles at T-Nation regarding it (a search around here would probably bring some of them up.) If you want to go vegan, Mike Mahler is a crazy stong, and knowledgable, vegan. Here's one good article. (http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/mahler_big_strong.htm) Or, just sneak a burger or two when she isn't looking, but don't tell her I said that. ;)

[ItalianStallion]

My HR goes to between 230 and 250 at the hardest bits.


What the hell :eek: are you sure man...seems ...a bit too high... :confused:

[iamraisen]

: Move a little more. Eat a little less.


he is only eating 1900-2000ks at the moment! to lose fat i would recomend changing the way you train (and possibly eat) rather than actually cut food out of your diet.

lean meats, lots of veggies.

start the day with a good breakfast made up of carbs and proteins e.g. bowl of oats, scrambled egg and a banana

after breakfast try to limit carbs to post workout snacks and fruit.

no matter what weight you are, i think as an active male you should be eating closer to 3000 calories.

check out interval training as someone else mentioned.

[Colucci]

he is only eating 1900-2000ks at the moment!

Do neither to an extreme.
You left out the most important part. I do agree though, that he could probably do with a higher calorie intake. (Douglas, I know that may sound counter-intuitive). The combination of a whole bunch of activity plus not a whole bunch of food is a great way to make your body say "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!", freak out, panic, and shut down (meaning your metabolism becomes slower than a snail carrying a turtle crawling through a field of molasses.)

An easy way to remedy this would be to increase calories a bit, decrease activity a bit, or some combination of both. If, after that, you notice the bodyfat not disappearing, or increasing, adjust accordingly. Taking one small step at a time.

[iamraisen]

You left out the most important part.

i did it for emphasis :D



adouglashmor, is your girlfriend a moral vegan or is there another reason? if so, and there is no way you are getting meat into your diet, then check this article (http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/mahler_big_strong.htm) out

[adouglasmhor]

Be water Re your first answer I meant I train in the gym twice a week, not twice on the same day twice a week. Rotator cuff injury means I cant do pull ups but can do chin ups, and can only do heaves to the beam on one side

My GF does 2 x 20 mins at level one on the bikes min resistance and 2 x 20 minutes on the rowing machine low to med resistance and ab crunches at the same time, she is a size 8/10 though so she is working out fine for her.

My GF is a moral vegan and i am an ex veggie, I do eat fish now but will not eat meat.

The patties/suasages etc are usualy wheat rather than soy protien or home made from lentils/beans/etc.
thanks for the link BWMF interesting article.

[iamraisen]

ive no idea what BWMF or whatever means, but there are planty more (see what i did there you freaking veg warriors) on www.mikemahler.com

[Colucci]

...then check this article (http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/mahler_big_strong.htm) out

Hmm, yeah. That is a good article. ::looking 4 posts above::

If you want to go vegan, Mike Mahler is a crazy stong, and knowledgable, vegan. Here's one good article. (http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/mahler_big_strong.htm)
:D :D :D
Great minds do what? :)

[iamraisen]

Great minds do what? :)

:p

bad raisen. bad raisen. that will teach me :o

[tcgohan]

Just a thought, you might want to up your intake of lean foods, get your calories up above 2000cal., I know eating too little can increase the fat you carry by putting your body into "survival mode" where it stores fat against future needs. I will say this though, from your descriptions you sound like your all muscle.

[adouglasmhor]

no I have a large lump of fat on front of my gut, its either lose it or see how I look in a corset :)

[TheMachine]

what's your diet like?

[Herberto]

It could be water retaining. See if you actually are, by pulling on your skin and let it go and if it kinda ripples like water then you are most likely water retaining.

Here are a few things you can do.

1. Drink more water
2. Eat less sodium. Don't eat to little because your body still needs some. An average body needs 2000-2500 mg to do its activities. Sodium holds in water.
3. Eat more fiber
4. Sweat a lot. Try this, after a work out go into a sauna to let your body continuosly sweat. At first your sweat will taste kinda salty and eventually it'll taste more closely to water. There is a risk to this though. Too much sweating, if your'e dripping in sweat you should get out and let your body cool down since if you don't, you are risking heat illnesses (muscle fatigue, naseau, and vomitting).
5. Make sure you drink a multivitamin since drinking so much water and sweating it out may cause you to lose some vital vitamins and minerals.
6. Posing. Try flexing one muscle throughout your whole body a couple times.

Don't expect fast results because everything in this world takes certain time some longer then others.

[adouglasmhor]

what's your diet like?

It's very like the daetailed example I posted on Page one of this thread.

[Gajah Silat]

Mate, I don't know if you are aware but certain drugs can cause a change in the way your body distributes fat. Just a thought considering you've endured chemo.

Otherwise, I have the same problem. I'm in excellent shape everywhere, except that immovable gut :) I've even tried hundreds of sit ups, only to get a six pack, concealed by that layer of fat :D

As a male, fat will get stored around the midriff more as you get older. It just takes longer to shift.

After, a couple of months of my 'must get rid of gut' sit up fixation. Things are slowly improving.

Just takes longer as you get older mate. That's the way it is.

[TheCount]

My HR goes to between 230 and 250 at the hardest bits.


That is FAR too high. Your 100% heart rate typically is 220 - Age. for someone like me, thats 202/203 ... I know it differs from person to person, but you should be rather concerned about 250



I walk about 3 miles a day most days walking my mums dog. I don't run but the lat time I did run I ran the 4 miles from the city centre in 31 minutes in the snow in dress shoes without stopping or getting puffed, I used to be a squaddie so I just treated it as a forced amrch, the buses had stopped because of a heavy snowfall.


Basically, as far as I can tell you are in exceptional physical condition. Your heart rate seems a bit high but thats to be expected if your carrying excess weight. If while your doing this you are still holding weight then I think your diet may be the key, or genetically you hold more weight. If its water retention with all the stuff your doing you should have noticed a difference before now.

[TheMachine]

Can you give us a detailed outline of your training?

[Gary]

Can you give us a detailed outline of your training?
Did you even skim the first page?

[adouglasmhor]

I went in a belt notch today first time for a while. When I was at my heaviest I had that distended belly 5 years pregnant look.

The 250 HR was when I was really pushing it on the bike and being monitored at the same time. As I said my resting HR is 42 and if I do breathing exercises and meditation I can get it down to about 36.

[TheMachine]

You might wanna try some interval training and Tabata. It has worked for a lot of guys in our gym.

Another thing that may also help boost your fat loss is by cleaning up your diet

[reel deel]

I do 2 sessions of weights and machines (I know but weights at our local gym are very restricted and I have other valid personal reasons for going there) twice a week. I do 3 x 7 of squats at 450 lb, I do seated rows on a cable machine of 3 x 10 at 285 lb twice , I do overhead press 3 x 10 at 155 lb twice, lat pulldowns the same, Pullover at 240 lb 3 sets of 20, back lifts on a machine 240 lb 3 x 10, 2 x 20 minute sessions at level 4 on a stationary bike usualy forest ride for the first one and Alpine pass or fat burner for the last one. My HR goes to between 230 and 250 at the hardest bits.

I also do Taijutsu for 2 hours twice a week, usualy at just enough activity to make me and the rest of the class except a couple of very fit individuals break sweat.

My work involves porterage and at least once every week I Individualy move 80 x 13 kg boxes of paper by hand and probably spend an hour every day moving furniture or boxes of varying wieghts.

I do half an hour of rokushaku bo kata 3 times a week at lunchtime before I eat, again at enough speed to just break sweat and get my HR up a bit.

I walk about 3 miles a day most days walking my mums dog. I don't run but the lat time I did run I ran the 4 miles from the city centre in 31 minutes in the snow in dress shoes without stopping or getting puffed, I used to be a squaddie so I just treated it as a forced amrch, the buses had stopped because of a heavy snowfall.

heres a fairly typical days eating from my journal, sorry its come up a bit skewed the milk dessert was actualy soya as I have a dairy allergy but the list of foods does not have that, i laso eat fish at least 3 times a week. I do not have beer or chocolate or ice cream or crisps or short bread every day but it would be fair to say I have a small amount (2 squares chocolate, two beers a bag of crisps or two shortbreads, something like that0 one or more most days I also never eat white bread or rice and the cereals listed bellow are all wholegrain. I do eat breakfast usually porridge or sugar free cereal with rice milk or sometimes scrambled eggs with wholemeal toast, or honey or fruit spread (like jam but sweetened with grape or apple concentrate insteat of refined sugar) on wholemeal toast with peanut butter (unsweetened) , I usualy eat 4 or 5 times a day, sometimes less.

Food Name Servings Serving Size Cals Fat Carb Prot
Frankfurter or hot dog, meatless 420 21 17 42
Soyburger 140 6 6 15
Milk dessert, frozen, lowfat, flavors other than chocolate 261 1 56 8
Kashi, Puffed 42 0 9 2
Millet, puffed 37 0 7 1
Rice beverage 74 1 14 2
oatcake 150 3 30 6
Sandwich spread, meat substitute type 23 1 1 1
Pasta, corn, cooked 176 1 39 4
Vegetable stew without meat 135 2 23 6
Tea, leaf, unsweetened 5 0 1 0
Cereal beverage 10 0 2 0
Chocolate, sweet or dark 52 4 6 0
Beer 246 0 22 2
Totals 1770 41 235 88

I have got some bulk muscle build and over the last three years since I started training after going up to 22 stone following chemo I have got down to 17 st 8 lb I have put 3 inches on my chest (52" now and my man boobs have gone) and lost 6 inches of my waist (38") for some reason I have always had very muscly legs.

I am not unhappy with my life, I have a great GF , I hate my job and am constantly looking for a better one, I sleep well. I drink plenty of water.

Anything else you need to know or any clarification needed let me know and i will answer as honestly as I can.

I also have an old rotator cuff injury in my right shoulder so I am careful of this.

edited to add my standing heart rate is 42 and i return to it within 1 minute of climbing three flights of stairs

Hi Doug
I can only tell you what works for me, I have a body shape that is prone to gaining wieght (short and stocky) I have found that the more carbs that I intake the more a fat I put on, so veggys I keep to a minimum, and I tend to eat a lot of protein, mostly white meat and fish but occasionally I have red meat (steak) as a treat. I laso supplement this with lts of vitamin supplements and I also use Whey protein as well.
I have other factors that cause me to gain fat, the medication that I take also causes weight gain, to keep this at bay I have to train doubly hard. the other thing is due to a permenat leg injury running is out of the question, so I walk everywhere, the only time I take buses and trains is if I cannot walk to were I'm going due to time restirctions. I never use lifts or escalators preferring to walk up the stairs as often and as quickly as i can manage.
Two other things that help keep the fat off, sex and dancing are great!
There is other stuff like cutting down on alcohol intake (Which was my biggest bugbear) and also have a day when you can eat anything that you want, say once a month.
The thing is we are all individuals and our body make ups all differ so what works for me may not work for you. Stress is another factor this can cause you to lose or gain wieght no matter how well you exercise or eat, so relaxation, and meditation are a must for me! It is hard work mate and it may just be you might need to vary your training or do something different in order to shock your body into reacting, (I hate swimming so I make sure that I do a few laps of the pool just to shock the system.) That's all I can tell you really as I say we're all different and it may take a long time for you to discover your own way, but don't let it get you down.

[adouglasmhor]

guys I am on holibags in the big bad Amsterdam with my GF so I will be dipping in and out, thanks for the help but i will not be training again till thursday, I did a session on saturday though.

[Ad McG]

This is definitely a dietary problem. From the region of your fat distribution and your diet, I suspect that you don't tolerate carbs too well and your insulin sensitivity isn't that great. Drop some of the carbs for a while and get more calories from healthy fats, you could even cycle carbs as that seems to work out for some people pretty well. Add in some more lean protein as has been suggested and you will be able to up the calories, as it seems you eat fairly clean anyway. Also, have you had your hormonal levels checked? You could have low testosterone.

[adouglasmhor]

This is definitely a dietary problem. From the region of your fat distribution and your diet, I suspect that you don't tolerate carbs too well and your insulin sensitivity isn't that great. Drop some of the carbs for a while and get more calories from healthy fats, you could even cycle carbs as that seems to work out for some people pretty well. Add in some more lean protein as has been suggested and you will be able to up the calories, as it seems you eat fairly clean anyway. Also, have you had your hormonal levels checked? You could have low testosterone.
You are probably very right, white bread or a sugary drink will make me sleepy after a lttle while but I run fine on brown rice or oats. I will get my tesosterone levels checked though.

[Ad McG]

Come back and tell us if you get any info/results :)

Just a note - fat distribution localised around certain regions on the body tend to indicate poor carb tolerance. The midsection is particularly common, as is a high skinfold at the scapula.

[Xav]

I think to lose fat the best is running and NOT eating snacks between meals and no fast food

[adouglasmhor]

Slight update, have a hospital apointment next week and am having blood hormone levels checked, I have dropped the 1/2 hour of bo kata 3 times a week at lunch time and replaced it with 1/2 hour of skipping and bodyweight exercises done at intensity and 4 times a week. And I have cut right back on booze dropped chocolate (except chocolate soyamilk after weights) and slightly upped my consumption of fish. Havn't weighed myself for a while but my gut is protruding a bit less than it was.