How long until a black belt?

[djhallib]

I was just wondering how long (and how often) people in your clubs have to train to be able to test for a black belt?

In my club, its 4 years minimum, but most people get it after 5.

In other clubs here, people can test for black belts after 3 years.

[Chazz]

It look me right at 4 years to get mine. I was in a school that only took 3 years to get to BB.

[Kof_Andy]

Usually about 4-10 years depend how often they come, and how hard they try. There are some exceptions however. Took me only a year and a half back then. However I come in everyday 2-3 classes and train before i come to the school aswell. The more effort you put in, the sooner you'll be recognized.:Angel:

[flyingblackbelt]

it took me close to five years to get mine. The shortest amount of time i can remember anyone getting their blackbelt in is like 3 and a half years, but thats with training 5 days a week.

[sindo]

In Sindo it depends on the individual - how well they train and with what degree of dedication. We have specific tests for black belt which include being able to take blows to the solarplexus from a baseball bat for 5 times in 5 consecutive hits. The student must also be able to break 10 bricks hit to their stomach / solarplexus one after the other. If they can't do that then they fail. There are other tests too but these two are probably more more difficult. With good guidance a serious student can probably achieve this result in 4 to 5 years.

http://www.sindo.org

[Tosh]

3 1/2 years for me


Strated just before uni, passed 2 weeks before my finals (well my first set of finals ;) )

[Thomas]

At our school, a student who comes to nearly every class and works hard (usually 5 times a week for 1.5 hours/class... and double classes if you can) could qualify to test for a 1st dan in about 3 years. Most of our black belt candidates actually take a bit longer, around 4-5 years.

[Cain]

Been here about 2-3 years and gotten to purple belt (5th or 6th kyu), four browns and one black to go...

|Cain|

[stoppy]

What is all this time limit business,

I think you should look at a normal person's ability to learn, as the time yard stick to black belt completion.

example.

12 kup/gup system grading twice a year = 6 years

add in exemplory training record and achievements in class = double grades 1,2 or 3
brings the time down to 3/4 years.

If a student double graded (which I dont always believe is right (IMHO) ) every time it would be 3 years.

8 kup/gup system do the math ..

Students only get submitted in the BTMU when both the instructor and the MASTER (member of grading panel) has deemed them eligable. The goal of blackbelt should be first viewed as aspiration, and as it gets closer achievable, but never as guranteed.

Stoppy

[Thomas]

Not quite sure what you're getting at... but the way I understand it is you don't agree with mandatory time limits for testing. (?) I agree but it does seem like there is an "estimated" amount of time within most schools (it varies) to reach 1st dan.

I think many TKD schools do their testing a bit differently. At my school, we don't really have time limit to earn your black belt, but we usually do testing every 2 months. To go from white to advanced red, making every testing and doing well will usually take about 2 years. As an advanced red belt, they are appointed "black belt candidates" and areused as assistant instructors. They also do demos at tests and a lot of work. When the master is satifsfied they are ready for black belt, they are pre-tested (a test of everything they've learned in an intensive manner). Passing this, they do the formal black belt test and wait for the decision of the black belt board.

The period from advanced red to the pre-test is usually longer than 6 months. For most candidates, it's about a year. For some, it is a few years. It really depends when the student (and the master) feels they are ready.

There is no rigid time limit in place but in our school it works out to about 3 years on average for many students... for some longer.

Note: after 1st dan, under the WTF we do have mandatory time limits we have to wait before being 'eligible' to test. From 1st to 2nd, I think it is one year, 2nd to 3rd is two years and so on. (This info may vary by system). Again, it's up to the master when we test... we don't test just because we have the "time" in.

[ptcruiser]

Thomas, good post.
You sound lika a good teacher already.

[djhallib]

Its actually 2 years from 1. to 2. and three to 3. from 2. but it doesn't really matter.

Speaking of wtf time limits, doesnt the wtf say a mandatory 3 months between tests as minimum before red stripe blue, and 6 months after red stripe blue?
Irrelevant however.

I was not implying I felt I had to wait to long for my black belt. I actually feel getting a black belt should take many years of hard work, and I hate it when people pass the same tests as I do, only half-heartedly, perform sloppy techniques, with no power and can hardly do the pushups. In fact, I vastly disagree with the means of testing at my school, since officially, you have to be able to do a certain amount of push-ups for each belt. I at yellow can do many many more pushups then most people with green in my class, and I do mine on the toes, but they on their knees. That is also besides the point :) Just a little venting.

Also, there are now double-gradings in my school, or any other school I've heard about in Iceland.

I had heard about some schools here of there on the forum who hand out black belts to students after 2 years, sometimes less, and was wondering how common this is. I also feel that when you do test for a black belt, you should be 130% ready to test. It is alot to learn in 2 years in my opinion.

[flyingblackbelt]

honestly, in my school the 'time limits' are class minimums, theres about 30 classes for everybelt up to brown then 60 classes for each of the three degrees of brown. This is less a requirement and more an easy way out. I mean its hard to keep telling children, and adults for that matter, that they are not ready to test, and for the most part these class minimums are a fairly good judge so that everyone is ready to test. It works too because no one has ever failed a test, if the instructor thinks they will they wont test its that simple, except for one black belt testing for his second dan but we dont like to talk about him, lol. Anyways, from first to second dan its 180 classes, about 2 years, and from second to third dan its 300 classes, about 3 years. My instructor usually likes to get his blackbelts instructing in some form before they move higher in the ranks as well, but like i said these are not strict requirements. I tested for my third dan in a year and a half for numerous reasons, i was basically the instructor right underneath the owner of the school, i was down at the school roughly 10-12 hours a week whereas most people are down there 2-3, i was going away to college so i kinda wanted to get it for my own personal reasons, i not only knew the forms but because we changed our order of black belt patterns i taught everyone else a couple of them that i learned on my own, but most importantly i was ready. Trust your head instructor and listen to what they have to say, if both you and them think that youre ready to test then you are.

[PsiCop]

At least 3 1/2 yrs here. But that's very rare. You would have to know exactly what youre doing, practice constantly, and be very dedicated. the mean is probably 4 1/2. It took me like 6 1/2, only because i went to a different school but that just made me that much better and made my black belt that much more special.

[stoppy]

I think we are both off the same song sheet Thomas. Respect what you have posted, just want to point out that students should not go into martial arts with the inclination that after a certain period they should be a black belt. We see more and more junior students coming throught he doors, who's parents automatically think that their child should be graded after 3 months. And do not understand when they are held back. Usually the student is recieving one to one tuition with assistent instructors to try and get the student ready, but if they are not then they do not grade. The result of this is unhappy parents, who think they know whats best for their child, when clearly they do not.

Sorry for the rant , but it gets to me sometimes to see students pulled from clubs because parents are blind to their own childs needs.

Im third Dan and have been training since 1984 so Im not into quick grades, but I have some fellow black belt 3rd dans who have graded much quicker than I because of ability. They may not teach as well but they train hard and have great technique and one day will make fine instructors. The trouble is that the more time you spend teaching the less time you have to train yourself, I find it only possible to train once a week with my master so I cant see me grading for a while. But its not important.

Stoppy

[Thomas]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by stoppy
[B]I think we are both off the same song sheet Thomas. Respect what you have posted, just want to point out that students should not go into martial arts with the inclination that after a certain period they should be a black belt. We see more and more junior students coming throught he doors, who's parents automatically think that their child should be graded after 3 months. And do not understand when they are held back. Usually the student is recieving one to one tuition with assistent instructors to try and get the student ready, but if they are not then they do not grade. The result of this is unhappy parents, who think they know whats best for their child, when clearly they do not. [B]

Yes we are on the same sheet of music. I have seen this before and probably will see it again. If a student isn't ready to test when his/her peers are, that one student should not test. Parents have a hard time understanding this and so do students. Nice post and nice to "meet" you!

[stoppy]

Yes,

The world is full of martial arts instructors/babysitters.

I think baby sitters get more $$ per hour :)

Stoppy

[YODA]

Originally posted by stoppy


I think baby sitters get more $$ per hour :)




.... and they earn every penny!

[neryo_tkd]

At the club where I started training tkd you can get a black belt after let's say 4 years. The entire group trains 3 evenings per week, but competitors train 5/6 evenings (per week) + 2 times jogging (usu in the morning) + 2 times training at the gym (in the morning). If you don't attend the classes, you can't take the belt exam. the exams for black belts can't be taken at the club you train. a korean master comes several times in a year, holds these exams in several cities, so you choose the date and the city which suits you best. that's the way tkd is trained where i live. now i teach others. and not long time ago an american girl came to my club and asked whether or not she could join. she is a black belt but not in WTA (that we do) but in TTA style. she got the black belt after 2 years of training and without a single fight, and that my friends is stupid. don't you think??? my blue belts and some of my green belts are better that her!!!

[Kwajman]

Hmmmmm, I know a 19 yo who is a 4th degree black belt, certificates and all, can you say MC MC MC MCdojo?

[neryo_tkd]

someone starts training at the age of 6 and someone at the age of 16. so we all have different belts at different points of time. but in my country kids under a certain age don't get the black belt. they take the exam but are not allowed to wear a black belt. their belt is red-black.

[neryo_tkd]

19 years old and 4th degree black belt???? what style is that guy, kwajman????
in my country there are rules that you have to take into consideration when it comes to black belts, of course also the time that has to pass between one degree black belt and another.

[YODA]

4th degree bb at 19? Wow!

Using a MINIMUM training time formula for a gifted dedicated individual I'd put the youngest 4th degree at 25 years old. This would be exeptional.

1st 16 years old
2 years to 2nd Degree
3 years to 3rd Degree
4 years to 4th Degree

A broader more realistic scale would put a Degree per decade starting at 20 for 2nd e.g.

3rd = 30
4th = 40
5th = 50 etc etc

Yeah I know, I've seen a 23 year old who was 6th Degree black belt in some obscure blend of Korean MA. I saw him get his ass handed to him by a 17 year old with 2 years Muay Thai.

[Freeform]

Yeah I know, I've seen a 23 year old who was 6th Degree black belt in some obscure blend of Korean MA. I saw him get his ass handed to him by a 17 year old with 2 years Muay Thai.


Ah, but I bet they didn't allow PPKO's, wristlocks and chi-balls though!

Took me about 10yrs to earn my BB in Tai Jitsu and I'm on the brink of earning my Judo BB after about 4yrs. I think its seriously wrong that anybody under the age of 16 (perhaps even 18) should be considered for a BB.

Col

[neryo_tkd]

come on people. YODA mentioned a guy who was a holder of the 6th degree black belt at the age of 23. think abt all those years of training. it's not easy to be at that level. on the other side there is a guy with only two years of trainings.....what does this say about these two persons????

[DOUBLEDOUBLE]

It took me 4 years to reach 1st dan

[Kwajman]

3 to five years. One young lady held on for 7 years till she got her black belt. I have some limitations and it may take me from 5-7 years.

[Kwajman]

Originally posted by Kwajman
3 to five years. One young lady held on for 7 years till she got her black belt. I have some limitations and it may take me from 5-7 years. That 19 year old is at a TKD McDojo...He spars like a wimp...

[neryo_tkd]

oh God, i really hate when people get black belts as gifts. they are really spoiling this martial art.

and when i think about it, i am even prouder of my students when i see how hard they train and prepare for belt examinations.

someone mentioned unhappy parents bla bla bla. parents are not the ones who can say what i should or shouldn't do in my class. if someone doesn't come to the training sessions, s/he can't be tested. there is a girl in my class who came 4 times in the past 4 months. she wanted to test for higher green belt. yeah right!

there are probably instructors who allow everyone to take the belt examinations because of the money. i am not interested in the money. and if i say that someone can't be tested, s/he won't be tested and that's it!

[Poop-Loops]

We take rank tests every 2 months or so at my school.

White - Yellow - orange - purple - green jr. - green sr. - blue jr. - blue sr. - brown jr. - brwn sr. - red 1 - red 2 - red 3 - red 4 - black

But, I think you have to wait longer at red belt, since my friend said he has to wait 3 months for his (and it's been a month since his last test), and another friend has been taking TKD for 4 years, and he just got his 4th stripe. Or maybe he's just on/off. I dunno.

The 19yo 4th dan does seem fishy though. The black belt at our school (it's a SMALL school) is like 23/24 and he can test for his 4th dan (doesn't want to for some reason), but he started TKD when he was 7.

PL

[Kwan Jang]

-I honestly think it is good for both the students and (if the student is a child) their parents to have some guidelines to go by and expectations to help them set goals. Just like they should expect someone beginning studies at a university to graduate with their bach. degree in approx. 4 years IF their performance and effort warrant it. It also helps to quell accusations of favoritism. (the old "well, Susan is getting to test, but my Johnny isn't?"-syndrome. This gives you the ammo to show that Susan was in class training, while little Johnny was sitting at home excersizing his thumbs on his X-BOX, and cutting class.)
-I don't believe that time or class attendance alone should EVER guarantee promotion. The students must be required to demonstrate the required minimum standards of competency (at the very least; hopefully far above this) and a required level of personal improvement over their previous level. I am infamous for holding back those who try to coast into higher belt levels off of either natural ability or the work they had put in previously, but I am not seeing now.

[neryo_tkd]

Originally posted by Kwan Jang
-I don't believe that time or class attendance alone should EVER guarantee promotion.

class attendance alone no, of course not. i have mentioned it, but i didn't say that it is the only criterium. what i wanted to stress with my example, i.e. the girl who came only 4 times in the last 4 months is that she can't be prepared for the belt testing when she hasn't trained for the past 4 months (well, except for those 4 times, and even then she had problems with her breathing, she wasn't fit, she didn't have a clue about the techniques that were covered during that period etc). i don't think that such a person can be tested. it was just one of the examples.


------------------------------------------------------------------
Poop-Loops:
''We take rank tests every 2 months or so at my school.

White - Yellow - orange - purple - green jr. - green sr. - blue jr. - blue sr. - brown jr. - brwn sr. - red 1 - red 2 - red 3 - red 4 - black

But, I think you have to wait longer at red belt,''
-----------------------------------------------------------------

so, up to the red belt u test every 2 months???? that's really weird i have to say. i don't think that all techniques can be covered within those 2 months, or the curricula at our schools are different. here u can take the belt exam every 3 months up to the higher green belt, but after that it's always more and more months. during the first year u can get 3 belts but after that 2 and then only 1 per year.

and one more thing....since u r training this martial art, wouldn't it be logical to know what the rules are concerning testing???

[incubus]

I just got my black belt, it takes around 7years. Happy it takes so long since one really feels good with what he has learned.
After getting the black belt another journey starts.

[HitNRun]

It took me just short of 4 years to get my Black Belt. This is slightly longer than most students in my school, if they attend class at least 3 times/week at 1.5 hours/class.

It would have taken me even longer then it did if had I not attended classes 4/5 times per week. There is nothing in TKD that comes natural to me.

It is possible to fail a test at my school. If someone gives up during the test or displays a nagative attitude, then they will not advance. During my BB test, there was one point, during the grappling portion that I had stray thoughts about giving up. I didn't and I'm glad I kept going. This was a point in the test where I had almost nothing left to defend myself with. So, what did I do? I grabbed a few fingers and did the twist! :)

Tom

[Poop-Loops]

Originally posted by neryo_tkd
------------------------------------------------------------------
Poop-Loops:
''We take rank tests every 2 months or so at my school.

White - Yellow - orange - purple - green jr. - green sr. - blue jr. - blue sr. - brown jr. - brwn sr. - red 1 - red 2 - red 3 - red 4 - black

But, I think you have to wait longer at red belt,''
-----------------------------------------------------------------

so, up to the red belt u test every 2 months???? that's really weird i have to say. i don't think that all techniques can be covered within those 2 months, or the curricula at our schools are different. here u can take the belt exam every 3 months up to the higher green belt, but after that it's always more and more months. during the first year u can get 3 belts but after that 2 and then only 1 per year.

and one more thing....since u r training this martial art, wouldn't it be logical to know what the rules are concerning testing???

It would seem that way, but it's really not that hard. For yellow belt, I needed to know Kibon Il, Yi, 1 step sparring 1-4, and self defence 1-3 (I also knew 4 though). Then, you only learn like 2-4 self defence and 1 step sparring moves per belt, and 2 forms. Also, you don't learn anything new from green jr. to green sr., just review to see if you are still practicing.

When I pass the test, and get my belt, the instructor says when I can test next.

I guess it depends on the classes. Standard classes are 3 times a week, but you can take more if you have the time, and they are 1.5hrs long.

PL

[TigerAnsTKDLove]

my school it takes 4 to 6 years but also it depends on you! and your attitude and how much you attend your classes like me for example i attend 3 days a week.

[neryo_tkd]

Originally posted by Poop-Loops
It would seem that way, but it's really not that hard. For yellow belt, I needed to know Kibon Il, Yi, 1 step sparring 1-4, and self defence 1-3 (I also knew 4 though). Then, you only learn like 2-4 self defence and 1 step sparring moves per belt, and 2 forms. Also, you don't learn anything new from green jr. to green sr., just review to see if you are still practicing.

When I pass the test, and get my belt, the instructor says when I can test next.

I guess it depends on the classes. Standard classes are 3 times a week, but you can take more if you have the time, and they are 1.5hrs long. PL

you don't learn anything new from green jr. to green sr. ???? i am sorry but that's really funny and weird at the same time.

so what happens between the green and black belt??? (I am not sure if I really want to hear it? :D)

[hocsr]

My school, belt testing every two months, black belt testing every 4 months. Black Belt in 1.5 to 2yrs of training (3 days a week, more intense as a bo black). Can you say Walmart Blackbelt.

[Brad Ellin]

Took me 21 years to get Shodan. I think I set some kind of record :)

Seriously, I have seen people get it after 3 and myself at 21 and every thing in between. It dpends n the person and the instructor. Some of our dojos have a strict curriculum they follow and some have more or less a set of guidelines that are adpated to the individual. Have I seen some that did not deserve it? Yes. And plenty at 3rd to 1 kyu that did, but for some reason or another have not gotten it yet.

[Sun Hwang]

In my school, it's three years if you test everytime. I think that's good because any shorter than that is too little time to properly train your body to be able to do the techniques well. I think by the time your a black belt your moves should be almost unconscious, like you don't have to think about what you're going to do next, you just react correctly to whatever the person throws at you. Like Wu-shin (no-Mindedness)

[special43543]

At my school, if you go 5 days a week, they said you could earn a black belt in as little as a year. Is this strange? Why such a short period of time?

[JohnnyX]

At my school, if you go 5 days a week, they said you could earn a black belt in as little as a year. Is this strange? Why such a short period of time?

Yep, its strange. :eek:

[carlos]

It depnds if there are some golden arches above your dojang entrance? (McDojang anyone?)

You could probably learn it all in a year - but learing and understanding are different things!

[bigd]

I was just wondering how long (and how often) people in your clubs have to train to be able to test for a black belt?

In my club, its 4 years minimum, but most people get it after 5.

In other clubs here, people can test for black belts after 3 years.

In my style a student could get a blakbelt within 9 months to 2 years,it all depends. :cool:

[special43543]

It depnds if there are some golden arches above your dojang entrance? (McDojang anyone?)

I have seen this term before, what does it mean? is it like McCarthyism?

[Bigfoot]

We too set minimum time requirements for our students to meet. They are there, however, to slow down the advancement of "natural talents" (We have found that those that do not have to work hard to advance fall short of their own potential and eventually leave the school). If a student was able to graduate at exactly the minimum amount of training required it would take 540 hours to reach first Dan. I have yet to have a student ready to test for BB before 700 hours. We offer testing every 6 weeks or so. Our testings are open to those that are deemed ready to test and have satisfied all of the criteria to be allowed to test (which varies from style, level and age). For advanced students the time minimums are 300 hours to 2nd Dan, 450 hours to 3rd Dan, 600 hours to 4th Dan... I am actively involved at least 1200 hours per year in teaching and training. This does not mean that I test every 6 months or so, but rather when I and my instructors feel I am ready. We are, however, not always in agreement on when this is. They normally want me to test sooner than I feel I am ready to.

[Infesticon #1]

you can get a black belt at the Iwama Dojo* in Japan in a year, would you like to go over there and call them a Mc Dojo? I certainly wouldn't.




* might be wrong about this, I think there is a 1 year course that they send the tokyo riot police on and other people can do it too, it's from that "Angry White Pyjamas" Book.

[bigd]

Why is it that when something seems out the ordinary for someone there quick to assume"mcdojo"lol
no.1answer-age
2-how long it took to get a black belt
3-learning multiple styles
4.doing a technique,different then someone else

what im getting at,people are different,because you coulden't get a bb in a year dosen't mean someone else couldn't,and it dosen't mean there "mcdojo" i hate that word if i had a dictionary this is what it would mean to me

MCDOJO-a downgrade of someone,of what they achieved,acomplished,and there hard work.a judgemental value of someone that has different beliefs,because of age,style,technique,training,instructor,or how long it took you to achieve something.2-basically saying every thing you worked for,and acomplished,doesent mean crap,cause it aint crap.well i think this word is crap.sorry ,i hate downgrading any martial artist .

age dosent matter,style,or how long it took you to get a blackbelt.
if every one,or every thing is the same,the world would be a boring place. :rolleyes:

[Kwondo]

Black belt is a sacred thing. And I think that too many people that I've seen who own a black belt can't show anything for it in terms of standards. It took me 7 years to achieve my first Poom; keeping in mind that everyone has different rates of improvment. But I would say a minimum of 5 years practicing about 5-7 hours a week would be benificial.

showing no disrespect,

[special43543]

I understand what you mean. Last time I was in class, there were 7 black belts, and at least 2 or 3 of them didn't deserve them in the least bit. I have very high standards set for black belts, and when I see them not being able to even preform the kicks, I think, "this is truly pathetic". They are doing the kicks okay with their right foot, but horribly with their left foot. To me, this is unacceptable for a black belt.

[Gekido03]

At my studio you can get a BB after 2 years if you don't fail any testings.

[Kwondo]

I totally agree, and the amount of young black belts that have no attention span is unbelievable! I truely think that standards should be met no matter what, and if someone slacks off and can't properly do their techniques, the Black Belt should be temporarily removed ( with no disrespect of course ) until that person can meet the standards. But thats just how my mind works :)

Showing no disrespect,

[Topher]

How long does it take to get a black belt

How longs a piece of string?

[NRees]

Took me about 5 years to reach 1st Degree, and thats without missing or failing a single grading. The reason it took me so long is that my club switched organisations so I ended up waiting 2 years between 1st gup and 1st degree.

Here's a breakdown of the times :

10th gup to 9th gup - 3 months (white to yellow ends)
9th gup to 8th gup - 3 months (yellow ends to yellow)
8th gup to 7th gup - 3 months (yellow to green ends)
7th gup to 6th gup - 3 months (green ends to green)
6th gup to 5th gup - 3 months (green to blue ends)
5th gup to 4th gup - 6 months (blue ends to blue)
4th gup to 3rd gup - 6 months (blue to red ends)
3rd gup to 2nd gup - 6 months (red ends to red)
2nd gup to 1st gup - 6 months (red to black ends)
1st gup to 1st dan - 12 months (black ends to black)

[oni_sensei]

I totally agree, and the amount of young black belts that have no attention span is unbelievable! I truely think that standards should be met no matter what, and if someone slacks off and can't properly do their techniques, the Black Belt should be temporarily removed ( with no disrespect of course ) until that person can meet the standards. But thats just how my mind works :)

Showing no disrespect,

I understand completely. In my dojang, my examiner seems to give out belts here, there and everywhere, it's only when someone doesn't even have the faintest idea of what they're supposed to do that he fails them. I've seen students who can't even deliver a middle side-kick (solarplexus height), yet still walk away with 1st kups, 1st dans and what have you. It's sickening. Of course, there are exceptions, namely people with physical disabilities and some of the elderly students, but for the most part I agree, if you don't know it, don't bother going for grading.

[blue-sash]

In the style I practice there is no minimum or maximum time between grades, until you reach 1st degree black sash.

I've been told that it could take me anything from about 5-10 years to achieve 1st degree.

My own Sifu took just under 11 years to get there, and his Sifu before him about 9-10 years.

I have no problem with this time length, as I had previously been involved with a group that gives out instructor/sifu status after attending a few seminars, and paying lots of money!

Whats it really worth if you don't have to work for it?

It's taken me 18 months to get to where I am: nearly ready for my third grading.

I've been told that the first couple of grades are the most important, as this is where I learn correct stance, rooting and a few of the basic techniques from the system.

Once I have good solid basics, the more advanced stuff will be much easier to learn.

I understand that this is not a good method for getting loads of students, or keeping them for that matter. But when I see the quality of technique of my seniors, I realise what I am trying to achieve.