Litttle bit about terminology,wording,etc.

[hottdogg]

Beforehand, I don't have any intention whatsoever to insult/offend.
But, Moderator, if you found this thread is offending or insulting you may delete this thread and warn me.
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You guys talk about complicated matters that I don't understand :confused:
Allow me to post boring little details.
I hope in the end you don't get confused. heheheh. ;)

Sorry for pretending to be know-it-all.
I just want talk a little about indonesian-english translation to make us(especially me after browsing some of the silat threads and some newbie) more understand clearly. This is trivial. Doesn't affect your silat training. :)

Ok, here's the meat:

Perguruan = school
(More formal vocab for school in indonesian is sekolah. But it's out-of-context for silat)

Cabang/ranting/kelompok latihan/unit = branch, training unit,training
group,unit
(Btw, based on my limited knowledge, silat doesn't have formal word for cabang. Japanese MA have. Dojo!)

Aliran = style
(In the context of silat/MA, aliran=style. But, homonym exist in bahasa indonesia as well as in english. Yes, aliran can means flow or -ism' too.)

That's it.

Now, the explanation. What you guys called "style" for all this time is actually a school. One school can incorporate or contain more than one style.As a matter of fact, many silat schools are like this. Took style over here, took style over there, modified a bit or a lot , made their own techniqus a bit or a lot, gathered eager students. Voila! A new silat school has been raised. Well, is not that simpe, but you know what I mean.
There are some oldskools though that contain only one style. For example, cimande school. They proud to be one-style only school. Among many cimande-based schools, I think they have more similliarities than difference. They derived from the same root,man. Maybe very slight difference, as I hadn't observed and compared between two one-style school yet. Hey, I'm not a 'silat observer' :).
FYI, some famous styles are cimande,cikalong, minangkabau, java, madura. School??!
don't talk to me about silat school. There are more than 400 silat schools exist. You guys, pesilat, train in one of those.

To make us more (not) confused, for example if a silat school named abc have their own technique quite dominant and a new silat school named xyz took some abc's original technique, that abc's technique can be called 'abc style'.So, xyz school has part of abc style. Sort of. Do you know what I mean?

Regardless, it's not a sin if you want to refer school as style and vice versa like you guys have done in this forum. Maybe it was confusing me at for the first time in MAP silat forum (english isn't my mother tongue) but I get used to it, afterall.

That's all. Just my opinion. CMIWW.

[Orang Jawa]

Perguruan = school
(More formal vocab for school in indonesian is sekolah. But it's out-of-context for silat)

If I remember correctly, usually Perguruan referred to religous school/University. ie: Perguruan Muhammadyah, etc. Many moons ago, I have not heard silat perguruan. Remember, my teacher only have 5 students in the 7 decades of teaching, and strictly in the family. So I probably not up to date about silat perguruan. I knew a lots of silat club, in Kramat Sentiong, Salemba, Menteng, and tanjung periok. etc.

Cabang/ranting/kelompok latihan/unit = branch, training unit,training
group,unit
(Btw, based on my limited knowledge, silat doesn't have formal word for cabang. Japanese MA have. Dojo!)

The used the word of cabang, I have not heard this till Victor introduce me to his system on the phone conversation. IMHO, cabang means branches, no more and no less. The word cabang can be associate with another word and the meaning would be totally different. :)
Dojo is a place to train. Cabang is not dojo, and vise versa.

Aliran = style
(In the context of silat/MA, aliran=style. But, homonym exist in bahasa indonesia as well as in english. Yes, aliran can means flow or -ism' too.)

You are correct. The problem is about the used of bahasa is different than the use of word in English. Many our Western friend, look in dictionary and put one word and choose another word, they put it together and they came to their own interpretation, some of the Indonesian word they use, have no meaning at all or raise my eyebrow. While Indonesian word alone have different meaning and when you put the two word together or added another word in it, have totally different meaning.

Now, the explanation. What you guys called "style" for all this time is actually a school. One school can incorporate or contain more than one style.As a matter of fact, many silat schools are like this. Took style over here, took style over there, modified a bit or a lot , made their own techniqus a bit or a lot, gathered eager students. Voila! A new silat school has been raised. Well, is not that simpe, but you know what I mean.

That's about right! :rolleyes:

There are some oldskools though that contain only one style. For example, cimande school. They proud to be one-style only school. Among many cimande-based schools, I think they have more similliarities than difference. They derived from the same root,man. Maybe very slight difference, as I hadn't observed and compared between two one-style school yet. Hey, I'm not a 'silat observer' :).

I'm not part of the school or system you had mention, but I'm proud to say that I learned something precious and have not been changes or add or disrupt in the hundred or maybe thousand years.

FYI, some famous styles are cimande,cikalong, minangkabau, java, madura. School??!

Really?

don't talk to me about silat school. There are more than 400 silat schools exist. You guys, pesilat, train in one of those.

To make us more (not) confused, for example if a silat school named abc have their own technique quite dominant and a new silat school named xyz took some abc's original technique, that abc's technique can be called 'abc style'.So, xyz school has part of abc style. Sort of. Do you know what I mean?

Are you talking a campur aduk here?
Basically, when person unable to apply the correct technique with less power due to lack of knowledge or lack of practice, some students added force to that application, or I called patching to make the old techniques work and then claimed that he discover a new technque.
Bottom lines is that a human body only can move a certain way. So all the the techniques or movement would be somewhat similar, different tasks and maybe the same or different objectives. Just "different"
And I could be wrong too,
Tristan