I need your help re: Pressure Points

[jaredsmith]

Hey guys, I need your help. I'm trying to discuss the possibility of how the usage of pressure points could work in instances of MMA but the guys on this site have all piled on and laughed at this notion. There've been well over a hundred posts most of them mocking PPs.

I'd appreciate that some of you more knowledgeable folks could possibly try to rationalize with them to make them aware of PP's effectiveness at certain scenarios. Please don't turn it into a flame war, just polite discussion.

If you want to discuss, simply create an account there, its really easy and contribute to the thread, "Time to allow pressure points in the UFC" on the underground forum. Just scroll down until you see this thread it is still active.

The website is mma.tv.

much appreciate it,
Jared.

[Andrew Green]

Funny, UFC.tv doesn't list no Pressure point strikes as a foul...

Of course that would rule out hitting the chin, the jaw, leg kicks and all sorts of other tactics that could be considered PP strikes...

The reason they aren't used, must be something different... Perhaps they don't work as advertised...?

There is a big difference between a seminar show move and something that works in a high adrenaline fight against a non-co-operative opponent that isn't expecting to be knocked out.

No rules against levitation, I'm sure it would be of use and I've seen magicians do it. So why don't fighters learn this valuable skill? Hyponitism would be good, make the other guy tap through hypontising him into it, why not hypontists in the UFC?

[Hakko-Ryu]

[i] Hyponitism would be good, make the other guy tap through hypontising him into it, why not hypontists in the UFC? [/B]

I WILL START THAT NEW BREED OF HYPNOSIS FIGHTING..HEHEHE...it will be a phenomenon called HYPNO-FUJITSU. I'm Serious...

but i do believe PP point do work...to a certain extent. for ex. in a street confrontation you can take down an off guard opponent by striking vital PP. (throat, temple, jaw.) I agree with Andrew on the adrenaline deal though. and yes pressure points are used to a certain level in MMA. pp under chin, temple, shins..etc etc. And I remember there has been a number of fighters hit on the temple who went straight into convulsions... But when adrenaline is involved and you're fighting on the ground, hitting a pressure point for example on your forearm would probably not do you any good.

[Andrew Green]

Originally posted by Hakko-Ryu
I WILL START THAT NEW BREED OF HYPNOSIS FIGHTING..HEHEHE...it will be a phenomenon called HYPNO-FUJITSU. I'm Serious...


With the right marketing it would probably sell... actually I'd bet there are instructors already doing this to some extent.

Just find some ancient reference and sell it as a "lost secret". It's no more silly then a lot of what is fairly "mainstream"... IMO

[David]

I've signed up for the forum, it says I have to wait 24hrs... Bit of a lol at the .tv domain having an underground forum. Underground like the Wombles, maybe. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Hakko-Ryu
...but i do believe PP point do work...to a certain extent....

I think it's only worth talking about pp effectiveness beyond "a certain extent". Jo Average is not going to become effective at the so called arcane point spotting because it requires a helluva lot of boring work to get it. For arcane, read complex and boring. The argument that ppl can't do it is fair enough in the same way that most ppl couldn't become fighter pilots: they just ain't smart enough and tuned in enough to handle the situation.:woo:

Pressure points and dimmak are serious stuff, true hardcore for the few, chosen partly because they're not going to go on tv and masturbate with it, I expect.

Rgds,
David

[Bigfoot]

Anyone can use pressure points. Anyone can resist pressure points. The trick is to know how to use them. When someone expects to get hit, their body is already prepared to resist the pain from the attack. An interesting little fact is that the human brain can only register pain from one place at a time. It is a natural self defense mechanism to prevent death by shock. The opposite is also true, most people can only resist pain one place at a time. If your arm hurts and someone stops on your foot, you don't feel the pain in your arm. Knowing this, if someone resists one attack and is not prepared for a second one, they will feel the pain.

In a MMA fight, it would be futile to attack someone where they train to receive pain (like the legs, arms, abdomen). Instead, you should attack where you can't train, like the knee, throat, eyes, ears, temple, groin, fingers and toes.

[ManabiMashoMan]

OMG are you guys actualy still watching the UFC?

It's so much BS now. I would assume that only boxers, kickboxers, and some Karate would watch it after all the baby rules they set up in it. The only good U.F.C. was the first 6 and after that it was rules on top of rules on top of rules. Of course kickboxing is going to come out on top everytime in a padded ring with 500 rules! Go to the streets and I want to see some real fights or to the underground no rule Fights in Japan and around Newyork.



Pressure points do work, and just like anything else in M.A. that does work it all depends who does them and how you are trained. If you just try to walk up to a person and do it while they are ready to fight then you deserve to be beaten severly. You do Pressure points like you do any other attack, timing, and waiting for that right millasecond. It is not something you force on a person, you wait for the other guy to set thierself up.


I see so many martial artists who Force Jointlocks and Pressurepoints, That is not how your suppose to do it. But you have my full 110% support on Pressurepoints, if I had to pick my favorite way to fight out of the below Pressure points would be #2.

Joint Locking/ fingerlock/wristlock/shoulderlock ext...
Kicking
Punching
Knees
Elbows
Pressure Points
Grappling
Chockes
Headbutts
Bone Breaks


Joint Locks would be my #1 and Punches #3 probably.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

and yet, pressure points are still legal despite their deadliness....

[ManabiMashoMan]

Yeah some of the students at our school have always laughed at how in the UFC first 6 there were masters and students that probably knew PP's and instead of hitting them they took thier sweet time doing something that had 5-8 steps in a RL fight. So I just assumed that either those that claimed to know bonebreaking and pp's techniques either didn't do them because of some respect issues or they didn't know how to do them properly.


I could have honour and respect to anyone but once im in the ring or any situation where there are not suppose to be rules its on. I see that too many times people who lose had that right hit and you ask why didn't you hit harder or more, and the loser says "Because i didnt want to hurt the guy" I can't even express my attitude towards people like that. other then...giving them a T-Shirt that says "im stupid hit me"

If one of the ufc fighters told me before hand hey don't hit my face to much I don't want to look ugly and messed up I seriously would have to restrain myself from beating them to death in the locker rooms for thier ignorance. UFC was intended to orginaly be the closest thing to a fight, now with K-1 rules and the new UFC stuff and all the padds and wraps its a joke now.

Oh and by the way the only time i ever lose almost is to anyone outside of my system or a Kung fu master in a sparring match is when there are rules or gloves because it defeats the entire purpose of alot of pp's where you need bare hands and knuckles instead of huge gloves. I am not trying to brag but when a black belt in our system loses in a sparring match alot of people seriously freak out and we show alot of respect to those that win. Alot of Kung Fu has been the only real competition for us lately and I don't consider sparring to be on points a real simulation although I do them for training and fun. I couldn't tell you how many fights and sparrs I have won but I could show you the scars and I have two missing teeth to prove it but you get to the point when fighting becomes addictive and winning becomes everything especialy in my case and so when you lose I pay alot of respect and honour those who beat me but at the same time I learn how and what they did to beat me and incorperate it so I know next time what to not do.

Im against padding other then maybe a mouthguard and groin cup. I think if someone created a fighting championship like K-1 or UFC they should have a rule that there are no gloves, wraps, or braces allowed. Then the fights would be much more fun and bloody and real

[ManabiMashoMan]

Im against padding other then maybe a mouthguard and groin cup. I think if someone created a fighting championship like K-1 or UFC they should have a rule that there are no gloves, wraps, or braces allowed. Then the fights would be much more fun and bloody and real


Hmmmm actualy I'm going to go out on a limb and say I would like to see a championship where there are NO RULES none at all......i mean other then they can't have a weapon. Then Each contestant would be paid like 50,000 dollars for fighting and have to sign contracts saying if they die ...then they waive rights to sue.


After that happened alot of fighters would see that you only live so long because it would be hard to do that more then 3-5 times with so many broken bones and the threat of dying. Id like to see a guy literaly out to kill.

That would end the debate of what does and doesn't work in a RL fight once and for all. Seriously It may sound insaine, but for 50,000 they would have alot of people signed up and alot of entertainment and profits from the show.


Never judge a killer by his looks. for proof look below

[Wolf]

Yes pressure points work. That being said. Certain people are more suceptible than others to attacks on them. Also, not all pressure points are as effective as others. They shouldn't be used a means of ending a fight. It takes too much precision to cause that kind of effect, and even if you do connect with that precision, there's no gaurantee it will work on that person.

Now as for those who would argue that they don't work ever, when people speak of boxers having a "glass jaw" this is generally referring to a pressure point. When a boxer lands a blow on the jaw in the right place they are actually hitting an extremely sensitive nerve that runs along the jaw. In some people, a hard strike to this can cause unconsciousness. Boxer's with "glass jaws" are examples of people very susceptible to a certain pressure point.

Pressure point knowledge is a large part of my style (kuk sool won). We are not taught to depend on them, just to understand how manipulating them could be beneficial. In case people were wondering, that's where my education in the effectiveness of them comes from.

[baubin2]

Some pressure points are definitely better than others too. For example, there's a couple blue belt sets in KSW that consist entirely of pressure point strikes. Some of them, like the one where you hit someone's arm where there's supposed to be a pressure point, I would never use in a real fight. It hurts if you get it right, true, but it's not debilitating by any means. But the ones where you kick out their ankle, kick out their knee, chop their neck, punch their throats, etc. are pretty easy to aim for (at least you can see where to hit) and will probably affect most everybody pretty bad when done right, so PP's definitely have some validity.

[rubberband]

I think the problem many full contact fighters have with the usability of pressure points is that their exposure to fighting is very dynamic and fast with an emphasis on stances that naturally protect sensitive body targets. So from their perception it is impossible to pull off a precisely targeted pressure point attack. yet all strikers know the value of body targets such as the jaw, neck, ribs, common peronial nerve, sternum, groin, top of foot, spine, kidney, liver, knee, shin...

As for grapplers... Grappling emphasises leverage and control of balance and weight. so even a body target that might cause someones knees to buckle while standing up is not going to do much when both parties are on the ground. of course body cavity pressing is still an option but it is illegal in every grappling match I know of. also, many grapplers are aware of the use of sensitive body areas that with the application of an elbow rubbing across can get a reaction, but they don't bet their ability to win on it. its just a control tool that may or may not work.

So understanding where your audience is coming from might help you better relate to their perception.

Also I think you should consider defining what you mean by pressure points. do you mean body cavity (i.e. nerve center and muscle belly) pressing or striking targets? you know the legit stuff... or do you mean the end all be all super secret deadly to just talk about dim mak energy plexus of death techniques? Which is what most people think of when you say pressure points because of the way pressure points are marketed. It is also this image of pressure points that has been tested and refuted time and time again to be relagated to a type of martial arts cult. and of course if you are in this cult you have been brain washed and nothing an outsider sayes will save you so all that is left to do is make fun of you... :D

take care, steve

[Hannibal]

People will take pressure point seriously when they are proven to work in a high-pressure, non-compliant environment.

There was a link posted on the forums about the "human stun gun" who could use his magnificent PP powers on hapless mortals...until the news crew took him to a BJJ school who just weren't that impressed and his sucess rate dropped from 100% in his class to around 0%.

Certainly pressure points can have valid application - shuto style strikes to the neck/ST9 spring to mind as do knuckles in the temple - but these are hardly trade secrets unique to PP fighting. Even boxing with it's huge gloves has PP's. If you hit the jaw, you pass out.

I remain unconvinced about most PP's though. In fact I am as good as immune to the one's taught on the Police syllabus (brachial plexus, mandibular angle) so I would rather put my faith in a system that doesn't only work sometimes.

Only an idiot would jump from a plane with a parachute that only had a 1 in 3 chance of opening.