Written Tests

[KSW_Martley]

Are there any written tests involved in the process of getting the higher belts, 1st dahn and upwards? I was also wondering if there are any instructors (of any school) who give written tests as a part of a grading? If I was an instructor and I gave out written tests as part of my students' grading, I would probably only do this to see how much they know about what they are supposed to know in the curriculum at that stage. I wouldn't fail them their next belt if they messed up the written part though.

A friend of mine who is soon going for his 2nd dahn in Tae Kwon Do has to do a written test, and if he fails that he doesn't get his dahn. So I was wondering if it ever happens in Kuk Sool?

[ember]

I don't know of any written tests, but all of our in-school tests include a mental drill portion. Most of the possible questions and answers are provided in the handbook when the student signs up, and are heard in class on a regular basis. Certainly anything we'd ask a white or yellow belt is in the handbook... but for red & brown belts, the questions can be more obscure.

Are there any written tests involved in the process of getting the higher belts, 1st dahn and upwards? I was also wondering if there are any instructors (of any school) who give written tests as a part of a grading? If I was an instructor and I gave out written tests as part of my students' grading, I would probably only do this to see how much they know about what they are supposed to know in the curriculum at that stage. I wouldn't fail them their next belt if they messed up the written part though.

A friend of mine who is soon going for his 2nd dahn in Tae Kwon Do has to do a written test, and if he fails that he doesn't get his dahn. So I was wondering if it ever happens in Kuk Sool?

[psbn matt]

there is no wirtten test as there is in tae kwon do, but i have just been informed that in my last bb testing when kuk sa nim comes over we my be asked to write kuk sool won and our names in korean. so i have been practicing and can know write kuk sool won and will start on my name next. but that is all i have ever heard of, and this is somthing quite new.

[Wolf]

that shouldn't be bad. Hangeul is a very easy written language. Now if he expects you to write in Hanja, that's another story! :eek:

[Choiyoungwoo]

that shouldn't be bad. Hangeul is a very easy written language. Now if he expects you to write in Hanja, that's another story! :eek:


I agree. But what does that have to do with someone being a qualified Black Belt??

[ember]

I think it's a good idea for a KSW black belt to recognize a KSW school if they happen to be visiting Korea.

My TKD master wrote the student's name on their dobok when he first saw a new student.

I seem to recall when I started being told that for 4th degree learning the language was required.

I agree. But what does that have to do with someone being a qualified Black Belt??

[Flipper]

Image removed - Freeform

[Choiyoungwoo]

I think it's a good idea for a KSW black belt to recognize a KSW school if they happen to be visiting Korea.

My TKD master wrote the student's name on their dobok when he first saw a new student.

I seem to recall when I started being told that for 4th degree learning the language was required.

1- the avg ksw student in the uk/us will never go to korea

2- As a new student I am not sure that I would feel all that good about having to be tagged in order to be id'd. Thats a very korean thing. An incomining student deserves more respect than that.

3- I have been told that, but I am only aware of a written test for 5th dan. Language requirement I am not aware of. I know many masters that do not speak, write, or read korean.

Although I can see how you can learn some peripheral things maybe a little better. I still don't understand why........Why would an westerner have to do learn korean to train in KMA properly, while a korean does not have to master english to conduct business in the us/uk properly. Seems like a double standard to me. How about requiring MA skills? Tech? Hyung? Fitness? Sparring? Weapons? Fighting? Principles of leverage, angles, force, etc..Why is the culture have any precedence at all? You can have discpline / ettiquette without culture.. look at the USMC they do it better than anyone. Who cares about han gul when it's time to fight, test, demo, compete, or train. I think it is just another way to keep people "under the spell"

[psbn matt]

i can see your point choi learning to speek or write korean will add nothing to you martial art trianing, but i like the fact that the korean language is included in our martial art, it makes it a bit more interesting and differant. and so far everyone of my students has shown a very keen will to learn the terminoligy and things like thank you, hello and goodbye. it can add another dimension to your classes. and ettiquette is a reflection on the instructor, if the class has good ettiquette then they respect the instructor.

ps. do you use any korean terminoligy in class, or is it all in english? my old instructors pretty much only ever used english, but my current instructor mostly uses korean.

[coc716]

do you use any korean terminoligy in class, or is it all in english?

I will agree that language doesn't necessarily have much impact on your training. Being able to say "hello" in Korean doesn't do much for my kicks or punches.

I do think it's good to use Korean terminology in class tho. It gives us a shared and agreed upon lingo to work from. Using this lingo, we can speak with any Kuk Sool practitioner anywhere in the world (and likely any Korean Martial Artist) and we know what we're talking about. We don't have to translate into someone's native tongue. It doesn't matter if it's Korean or what exactly we're speaking in, just the fact that there's a common set of terms that everyone shares. I'm a software engineer by day and if I say "singleton", other software engineers are going to know what I'm talking about. I don't have to explain it, I don't have to translate it, I can just say the term and everyone in the group will know what's meant and we can move along. Same thing.

I like having beginner classes have a mix of Korean and English, but only to help them learn the words and their meanings. I do like them to learn the actual word meanings and not just regurgitating terms/sounds back at me... learn that "ap" means "front" so ap cha ki, ap nak bup, ap yup nak bup, they'll know if they hear "ap" that means "front". In more advanced classes, I think people ought to know and so I prefer it to be in as much Korean as we all know and/or can figure out. Again, it's working towards that shared lingo. It's about communication, which if there's better communication between teacher, student, and everyone in the dojang, hopefully will lead towards us all being better martial artists.

[KSW_123]

I think coc716 put it very well. I don't think it has anything to do with putting us under a spell.

I personally find the Korean language fascinating. If I ever get the time, I would like to learn a bit of it, more than just hello and goodbye. No-one is pushing me to do this but myself.

[AirNick]

Yeah I definitely think it is useful. I have taught in Spain where nobody spoke a word of English and it really helped me with things.

Oh and I have a fellow computer nerd in coc716, that's good to know!

[Choiyoungwoo]

We don't have to translate into someone's native tongue. It doesn't matter if it's Korean or what exactly we're speaking in, just the fact that there's a common set of terms that everyone shares. I'm a software engineer by day and if I say "singleton", other software engineers are going to know what I'm talking about. I don't have to explain it, I don't have to translate it, I can just say the term and everyone in the group will know what's meant and we can move along. Same thing. Use of the language is only a matter of consistency. I don't care if it is swahili. Just be consistent and make a standard that is known to all. in ksw it is used, but it is inconsistently applied. The other software engineers are your peers, not your students. your comparison is slightly flawed. Use of Korean adds to the fantasy of the training, hence the "spell"( maybe I should use a different term). The other flaw is that there i sense an incorrect assumption that industry standard is korean. it is not. I am sure asians want it to be, as that would lend them a favorable position in terms of percieved knowledge of thier respective system. They would look like they know more just because they speak the lingo. Students buy into that because it fits thier model of the fantasy of training MA. Unfortunately this is sometimes used to garner loyality/faith/dedication of the student, when it otherwise wouldn't occur.

. There is a lot lost in translation that knowing korean can really help, but is it the burden of the teacher or the student to translate. who is more qualified. I think the burden is the teachers, initially. Only at the higher levels should the student/apprentice deal with this. Consider going to china to teach hairdressing as a job. you wouldn't get nearly as many students(if any) if you insisted on teaching in english only. you would have to spend years teaching in chinese before you would expect your apprentices to comply to a near english only format.

[ember]

I think that makes 4 of us, since KSW_123 is a sparky like me. Although I'm not sure I know what "singleton" refers to in a software context.

Oh and I have a fellow computer nerd in coc716, that's good to know!

[AirNick]

I think that makes 4 of us, since KSW_123 is a sparky like me. Although I'm not sure I know what "singleton" refers to in a software context.
What's a sparky? Here in the UK, a sparky is an electrician.

A singleton is programming term for a class that can only be instantiated once, yaaaaawn!

[ember]

1) Agreed.

2) It was kinda cool. But then, my name is easy to write in Hangul.

3) There seems to be a little more of an emphasis on the Korean recently. KSN_Matt is testing for 3rd degree, I assume. Knowing how to write "Kuk Sool Won" and his name sounds like a very minimal requirement for that level.

As you explain later, I think it does make sense to start a white belt in mostly English.

One of my mental drill questions once, was what the calligraphy next to the flags meant. Unfortunately for me, they'd picked the "Jung shin" one instead of the "Kuk Sool Won".

1- the avg ksw student in the uk/us will never go to korea

2- As a new student I am not sure that I would feel all that good about having to be tagged in order to be id'd. Thats a very korean thing. An incomining student deserves more respect than that.

3- I have been told that, but I am only aware of a written test for 5th dan. Language requirement I am not aware of. I know many masters that do not speak, write, or read korean.

[ember]

My former Army coworker uses it to refer to an electrical engineer.

What's a sparky? Here in the UK, a sparky is an electrician.

A singleton is programming term for a class that can only be instantiated once, yaaaaawn!

[KSW_123]

I've never been called a "sparky" before. I kinda like it.


back on topic. I have never experienced this spell that Choi is refering too. I study under a Korean and I just don't feel it. Maybe I've been brainwashed by the man.

[Nettey04]

In my Judo class we have a written portion for every test.

[Silentmonk]

I've never been called a "sparky" before. I kinda like it.


back on topic. I have never experienced this spell that Choi is refering too. I study under a Korean and I just don't feel it. Maybe I've been brainwashed by the man.


What names have you been called??? :D

you list yours and I'll PM mine they'll never let mine stay on a public forum :D :D

See the spell is strong in your class :D :D :D a spell is no good if you feel it :D

[You Won Hwa]

a spell is no good if you feel it :Dor maybe a spell is only good if you DO feel it! Maybe spells, like some medicines, take a while for the victim I mean patient to feel the effects, and by then, the effect feels normal. Maybe if the spell wore off we would realize the difference.

[Choiyoungwoo]

or maybe a spell is only good if you DO feel it! Maybe spells, like some medicines, take a while for the victim I mean patient to feel the effects, and by then, the effect feels normal. Maybe if the spell wore off we would realize the difference.

It seems that when the patient is eager for an effect, they will accept even the wrong medicine.

[Silentmonk]

It seems that when the patient is eager for an effect, they will accept even the wrong medicine.

Are we talking about your homebrew again?? ;) :D

[You Won Hwa]

It seems that when the patient is eager for an effect, they will accept even the wrong medicine.We can't learn everything, no matter how much we try. We have to accept someone's authority, about something. We often get to pick our authorities, we get to decide how much we rely upon their opinions. Hopefully the authority isn't too eager for an effect. Hopefully, the patient won't be TOO injured by the authority before the right medicine is found.

[KSW_123]

What names have you been called??? :D

you list yours and I'll PM mine they'll never let mine stay on a public forum :D :D

See the spell is strong in your class :D :D :D a spell is no good if you feel it :D
I don't think my list would be allowed here either :D Except for maybe, drone and blind follower.

[Silentmonk]

I don't think my list would be allowed here either :D Except for maybe, drone and blind follower.

See now comes the relevance of learning Korean (damn it!!!). We might get away with the lists in a different language :)

[ember]

Generally, casting a spell on someone without their permission is considered to be highly unethical.

And a "mind control" spell such as has been suggested would be even more unethical.

or maybe a spell is only good if you DO feel it! Maybe spells, like some medicines, take a while for the victim I mean patient to feel the effects, and by then, the effect feels normal. Maybe if the spell wore off we would realize the difference.

[You Won Hwa]

...without their permission...unethical.It isn't my spell, nor my medicine. But I'm glad to not be in the "unknowing" category, at least with regards to the licence agreement.

[coc716]

Use of the language is only a matter of consistency. I don't care if it is swahili. Just be consistent and make a standard that is known to all.

This is my main point. And at least through KSW there appears to be an attempt at it. But....

in ksw it is used, but it is inconsistently applied.

.... you're right about this. It seems if it's a term on an official terminology sheet or in the books, it seems to be consistently applied. But if it's not, then things break down. As an example, take the exercise where we do a jab, a cross, then pivot/turn 360 degrees and sudo. What is that called? I don't recall textbook's label, but at our school it gets called "ap dee sudo", I read in another thread that emberKSW called it something like "jeong gwan hana dool sudo" or something like that. We're all in a similar ballpark and can probably figure it out, but it is inconsistent at times.

So to that end, I'd be curious about AirNick's experience. He said that when he was teaching in Spain it was very useful. Were there any points of breakdowns? For instance, where there wasn't a specific term/label already applied? I'm trying to find arguments for the "inconsistency" issue that Choi's alluding to.

The other software engineers are your peers, not your students. your comparison is slightly flawed. Use of Korean adds to the fantasy of the training, hence the "spell"( maybe I should use a different term). The other flaw is that there i sense an incorrect assumption that industry standard is korean. it is not. I am sure asians want it to be, as that would lend them a favorable position in terms of percieved knowledge of thier respective system. They would look like they know more just because they speak the lingo. Students buy into that because it fits thier model of the fantasy of training MA. Unfortunately this is sometimes used to garner loyality/faith/dedication of the student, when it otherwise wouldn't occur.

I don't know if the comparison is flawed... certainly terms like "singleton" get used by my teachers. :) But this isn't the point of the discussion, so let's move along... it served a point to make an illustration.

I will agree that the terminology may fuel some people's fantasies. And if it does, so what? Is that a bad thing? If it draws them in, if it keeps them there, eventually they'll see reality and either leave because their fantasy is shattered or stick around because the reality is better than the dream. Eh. To me it doesn't matter... being half-Korean I grew up hearing Korean spoken all the time, so to hear it and speak it is just normal to me.

[coc716]

Oh and I have a fellow computer nerd in coc716, that's good to know!

Whoo! See, this demonstrates my point.... singleton. It's like our secret software engineer codeword and handshake. ;)

[Silentmonk]

Whoo! See, this demonstrates my point.... singleton. It's like our secret software engineer codeword and handshake. ;)

I've heard AirNick called a simpleton before :D or maybe i misheard :D