Did Bruce Lee ever grade??

[Ross G]

Just a thought seeing as he's rated the greatest Martial Artist (or Kung Fu practitioner) of our time.

Did Bruce Lee ever grade and if so, what grade was he?

[Cain]

Actually I read somewhere that because of race or something yip man was frowned upon to teach Bruce,so he had unofficially put him under the instruction of one of his own students...I think it was Ted Wong...

Either way what does the grade matter? All I care about is how hard he could kick a$$ :p

|Cain|

[Greg-VT]

No, there were no gradings.

Your sorta right there Cain... In the fact Yip Man did not train Bruce completely himself. One of Yip Man's students did -under Yip Man, as you mentioned. It was primarily by Wong Shun Leung, and a little by William Cheung.

[Mad-about-Bagua]

Bruce Lee completed:
1. Siu Lum tau
2. Biu Ji
3. Chum Kew
4. Chi Sao

However, he didn't complete Mook Yan Jong ( Dummy forms)
He had become a movie star by then and was arrogant and cocky, and upon returning to Hong Kong offered Yip Man an apartment if he would teach himMook Yan Jong. Bad mistake, that was taken as an insult (bribe ?) and Yip Man refused to teach him anymore.
My source ?
My Sifu Derek Fung , was Bruce Lee's classmate, who was best friends with Wong Shun Leong . He lives in Sydney nowadays.

Wong Shun Leong and William Cheung lived in Melbourne Australia. Wong passed awaysome5 years ago.


http://www.wing-chunkungfu.com.au/
If you are in Sydney and interested in learning Wing Chun please have a look. Steven Tadic trained under Derek Fung for 10 + and is an excellent instructor and a real dte nice guy.

[SoKKlab]

Only in Chachacha

[Andy Murray]

Hi Ross.

Grading, i.e. Belts etc is uncommon in Chinese Martial Arts.

According to Ozebob, the whole 'Belt thingy' was introduced this century.

If Yip Man ranked you highly, I think you got to buy the guy dinner, but seeing as 'Till Receipts' weren't common in those day's, especially in China, it's kind of hard to verify if Bruce ever did. ;)

[Cain]

ROFL!!! Your comments never fail to rock my chair!!! :D

|Cian|

[Tireces]

Originally posted by Cain
Actually I read somewhere that because of race or something yip man was frowned upon to teach Bruce,so he had unofficially put him under the instruction of one of his own students...I think it was Ted Wong...
|Cain|

Yip was forced to stop teaching bruce, because his senior students who paid for his well-being and took care of his financial matters were threatened by him. They didnt want to be embarrassed because this young kid was learning so fast and training so devotedly that he was already beyond them, and so they demanded he be expelled from the school. Yip Man told William Cheung to keep teaching Bruce. This is all from Cheung's own accounting, if what I've read is to be believed at all. Ted Wong was a student of Bruce's, not the other way around. Ted had absolutely zip martial arts experience before coming to bruce, and I think to this day has absolutely no real formal training in Wing Chun. And if Ted Wong passed away 5 years ago, why did I attend a seminar given by him at my school a year or two ago? Have I been learning JKD from a ghost? He sure could land some damned solid punches for an ethereal being...perhaps he was some sort of super-strong zombie.

[Cain]

Sorry, I did'nt know much about who taught Bruce Lee and the like, it's like me to make mistakes, hard to remember names like "Ted Wong" and "william Cheung" y'know ;)

And if Ted Wong passed away 5 years ago, why did I attend a seminar given by him at my school a year or two ago? Have I been learning JKD from a ghost? He sure could land some damned solid punches for an ethereal being...perhaps he was some sort of super-strong zombie.

Whoa! A big cat out of the bag! :D

This could be interesting...;)

|Cain|

[Andy Murray]

Please take all 'Cheungs' accounts with a pinch of salt!

Ted had no former MA tuteladge until he met Bruce, but he's very much still alive/active within JKD concepts groups worldwide.

[Tireces]

Well, I dont know much about cheung, or his trustworthiness. But I did point out it was simply his verbal accounting, so as to not let anyone think that it was proven fact. Bruce has acknowledged himself that during that time he was an arrogant kid. But I do know Bruce was already sort of a "movie star" before he even started training, and in fact it was part of the reason he wanted to train, because people kept targetting him since he was given roles akin to those of James Dean, thus making him something for the "tough guys" to shoot for to keep up their image. This is widely accepted as what sparked his initial interest in martial arts. I havent seen a biographical account on him that didnt tell it that way, so Im guessing that at least is mostly true.

[Mad-about-Bagua]

Originally posted by Tireces
......... And if Ted Wong passed away 5 years ago, why did I attend a seminar given by him at my school a year or two ago? Have I been learning JKD from a ghost?


No ghost lessons. It was WONG Shun Leong who passed away 5 years ago. Wong Shun Leong was also Bruce Lee's classmate and being more senior, also instructed Bruce. Wong was Melbourne based and passsed away 5 years ago. Sorry for the confusion

[Greg-VT]

Shun Leung was based in Melbourne?

Your not confusing him with Cheung are you? William was/is based in Melbourne....

To my knowledge Wong was always based in Hong Kong...

[Tireces]

Originally posted by Mad-about-Bagua
No ghost lessons. It was WONG Shun Leong who passed away 5 years ago. Wong Shun Leong was also Bruce Lee's classmate and being more senior, also instructed Bruce. Wong was Melbourne based and passsed away 5 years ago. Sorry for the confusion

Ah, you should've been more specific.

[Mad-about-Bagua]

Originally posted by Ving Tsun
Shun Leung was based in Melbourne?

Your not confusing him with Cheung are you? William was/is based in Melbourne....

To my knowledge Wong was always based in Hong Kong...

Wong Shun Leong spent a lot of time in Melbourne. Pehpas he was shuttling back and forth between hong Kong and Melbourne.

William Cheung is definitely in Melbourne

Derek Fung is defineitely in Sydney

[Greg-VT]

Yea I knew Cheung was in Melbourne, and Fung in Sydney.

Wong is news to me though... anyways, tah.

[Smee]

I think Bruce Lee would have died laughing (rather than from aspirin/triads/drugs/whatever) to hear people ask what grade he was.

Grades don't mean anything outside your own club/organisation.

To quote Bruce in Enter the Dragon " Boards don't hit back". Same goes for grades - you can't win a fight by showing someone your faded black belt with 9 gold stripes.

I hold grades in my own art and club and will only ever be a "black sash" in my own little church hall and with my own little group of training partners. As soon as I step out the door I am back to being Joe Bloggs with a thin leather belt round my jeans.

Bruce Lee was the same.

[cappo]

roffle, your avatar is making laugh to death.

[Bil Gee]

Bruce Lee completed:
1. Siu Lum tau
2. Biu Ji
3. Chum Kew
4. Chi Sao


1) He never learned Biu ji, one of the reasons that the third form got the silly reputation of being a "secret" form.

2) Chi Sao isn't a form it's a training exercise.

[Gong_Sau_Rick]

WSL was never based in Melbourne, although because of his ties with David Peterson he was often in Melbourne conducting seminars.

William Cheung is definately in Melbourne, I often walk past his school. Even if I wanted to train there I wouldn't have the cash, it's extremely expensive. William Cheung did teach Bruce Lee, but in a classmate-to-classmate fashion, not a sifu-to-student fashion. Bruce Lee was primarily taught by Wong Shun Leung, and then a little by Yip Man. We know this because that's what Bruce said.

I have no idea who Derek Fung is, I do know there is a Jimmy Fung in NSW.

As for did Bruce Lee ever grade? I don't think they even had grades in Wing Chun at the time, and grades are virtually meaningless anyway.

[CFT]

Derek Fung Ping Bor (NSW).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branches_of_Wing_Chun

[Bil Gee]

As for did Bruce Lee ever grade? I don't think they even had grades in Wing Chun at the time, and grades are virtually meaningless anyway.

There is a very structured syllabus though, that pre-dates Yip Man, possibly by centuries. It's based on advancement through the forms, and modern grading systems tend to be based around that syllabus. I'm not sure that all lineages are the same, but anyone who does wing chun under a lineage descended from Yip Man would understand what was meant when a student says they are at "chum kiu" level (as Bruce Lee was), so in this respect grades have been around in Wing Chun for a long time.

For those that don't know about the wing chun forms this would put him by most modern grading systems at less than two thirds of the way to black sash. (assuming black sash begins at the wooden dummy form)

[Taff]

Some astonishing thread necromancy just for this comment:

roffle, your avatar is making laugh to death.

:D

[dragonclaw]

1) He never learned Biu ji, one of the reasons that the third form got the silly reputation of being a "secret" form.

2) Chi Sao isn't a form it's a training exercise.

Actually your both right. Bruce did attempt to bribe Yip Man, but it was for the completion of the system. He didn't know Anything past Chun Kiu, and his chi sau was only mediocre at best. My info comes from Duncan Leung, Bruce's classmate and best friend whom they fought together on the HK rooftops.

[Gong_Sau_Rick]

Yeah I've heard that Bruce was not the best WC guy at his school.

I thought he got half-way through the dummy form.

[Hannibal]

Some astonishing thread necromancy just for this comment:

:D

I was thinking the same thing!

[Emil]

Bruce learnt most of his wing chun by observing the advanced students. this is why he did not perfect a lot of things, such as the fa Jing. He was not taught a lot of them. He simply observed them.

[dragonclaw]

And since his death they have bastardized his theroies(which as I've said in the past is where all kung fu fighters should find themselves). Like saying JKD is composed of 24 different styles!!!! LMAO! All Bruce did was try out his Wing Chun against other styles and tried to keep the theroies that worked and refine the ones that didn't. But his frame work was and is still WING CHUN!!! The only other styles he really trained in were Boxing and a couple of TKD kicks with Joon Rhee. He learned the Kali sticks from Dan Innosanto, and that's basically it. Learning a form here and there is just that...learning a form. When he fought he used WC with boxing dance to become more mobile. I don't really see the fencing in it as they say due to the back foot partially planted. But I'll give them that one. He fought soputhpaw cause he felt his first punch should eb a power shot. But still it's WC.
Now that he's dead there's JKD schools all over the place all claiming different style that Bruce learned and they all know they're LYING!!! :bang:

[Hannibal]

And you have been and spoken to them all have you? :rolleyes:

[Gong_Sau_Rick]

And since his death they have bastardized his theroies(which as I've said in the past is where all kung fu fighters should find themselves). Like saying JKD is composed of 24 different styles!!!! LMAO! All Bruce did was try out his Wing Chun against other styles and tried to keep the theroies that worked and refine the ones that didn't. But his frame work was and is still WING CHUN!!! The only other styles he really trained in were Boxing and a couple of TKD kicks with Joon Rhee. He learned the Kali sticks from Dan Innosanto, and that's basically it. Learning a form here and there is just that...learning a form. When he fought he used WC with boxing dance to become more mobile. I don't really see the fencing in it as they say due to the back foot partially planted. But I'll give them that one. He fought soputhpaw cause he felt his first punch should eb a power shot. But still it's WC.
Now that he's dead there's JKD schools all over the place all claiming different style that Bruce learned and they all know they're LYING!!! :bang:

Hmmm... I've heard 26 styles is the official count now. My whole take on the whole JKD thing is this:

Jeet Kune Do is just one of the concepts of Wing Chun Puglisim.
(Not everyone will understand what I'm talking about with that comment, just remember JKD means 'way of the intercepting fist'.)

Also I think I need to mentioned that he did not throw away his WC footwork in favor of Boxing footwork. What happened was that he was 'inspired' by the western boxing footwork and modified the basic WC stance so that at a longer range he could remain more mobile to avoid contact reflexes, or the chi sao range. This was because as I've mentioned before he was afraid of coming up against a larger opponent with equal contact reflex skill, or a more skilled opponent at contact reflexes.

Peace.

[dragonclaw]

Exactly my point. He just took a concept of WC(and almost every Hakka Style for that matter) and sought to describe it in more scientific detail, as he felt this was the essence of all Chinese mMartial Arts. But this whole 26 style thing is the masses' attempt to claim Bruce's name and lineage. I mean, it's a great marketing tool1 Ask Burton Richardson.
Now don't get me wrong, some of these guys can fight, but doing MMA and adding some chi sau to it doesn't make you a JKD fighter.......well then again! LMAO!!

[El Tejon]

According to my sigung, Siu Luk Men, a classmate of Bruce Lee's, Lee learned SLT, CK and half of the mook form. I have no idea what type of student he was or what is chi sau was "like."

I have no Bruce Lee tales, but I shall request them when I see my sigung next spring. :)

(My sigung usually talks about how much I need to improve). :D :cry:

[dragonclaw]

Cool let us know. We like good stories...