questions

[ajnin]

i have been doing much research lately on the topic of differnt martial arts. for starters this site is a wonderous plethora of information that i will continue to wade through. thank you. now i must admit as child i was first attracted to the art due to television and american backwash. part of me still is. but in doign my research i have found myself inquirign more into ninjitsu. i have been reading many many posts here and it seems many are loosing the thoughts and traditions of ninjitsu that i wish to learn more about. some of you are seemingly havign a "**** fight" so to say as to which form of ninjitsu is better or more useful. now one thing i was told by a very good friend of mine, "it is not the art which will shape you, it is the teacher." isnt it all in the ways that things are given and recieved? if one student doesnt get fullfillment from a teacher he should respectfully move on. i do not belive half of the attitudes i have seen from some that post here. if its not for you personally, do not disrespect it and ruin the chance for others. i have thought about this alot. i have found myself sitting in dojo/kwoons watchign and taking much in. honestly in the places i have been i have not found my teacher.
i live in the sacramento area of california, grass valley to be specific. i am seeking to learn more of this art, and the best way is by talking with those experianced. so i ask thsoe that care to spend a few moments to share their respectfull views of the differnt "styles" i would greatly appreicate it. my email is ajnin_krad@hotmail.com and my AIM is Ajnin Ten
thank you in advance and again thanks to martial arts planet for the great community

[Bouk Teef]

Originally posted by ajnin

now one thing i was told by a very good friend of mine, "it is not the art which will shape you, it is the teacher." isnt it all in the ways that things are given and recieved? if one student doesnt get fullfillment from a teacher he should respectfully move on. i do not belive half of the attitudes i have seen from some that post here. if its not for you personally, do not disrespect it and ruin the chance for others.

Obviously, the instructor / teacher has a great deal of influence on inexperience students as the student's point of contact with the MA is through their instructor. Instructors with a large amount of skill (not only in their technique but also in their ability to pass information to the students) generally install much of that dedication and ability into their students. In other words, if the instructor sets high standards for himself then those standards are passed onto the students (for their own benefit).
As the saying goes, "there are no bad martial arts; only bad teachers".
This is the reason why I disagree with "Home Black Belt Courses" so much. These courses dilute Ninjutsu with poor instructors who then go onto teach students. This harms the history and traditions of Ninpo IMO.

Edit - I have used Ninjitsu here as an example but my point could equally be applied to other MA's.

[judojedi]

maybe you should cross train with another martial art. ninjitsu afterall uses the techniques from ju jitsu but applies a different philosophy. you could research the ideals and philosophies of ninjitsu and learn the techniques from a judo or jujitsu teacher untill you find a ninjitsu teacher you can learn it all from.
in my humble opinion every martial artist should do judo, but i'm bias.

[Bouk Teef]

Originally posted by judojedi
maybe you should cross train with another martial art. ninjitsu afterall uses the techniques from ju jitsu but applies a different philosophy. you could research the ideals and philosophies of ninjitsu and learn the techniques from a judo or jujitsu teacher untill you find a ninjitsu teacher you can learn it all from.
in my humble opinion every martial artist should do judo, but i'm bias.

I certainly do not want to get into X vrs Y argument but from my understanding Ju jitsu (an excellent MA) actually derived from one of the schools of Ninjitsu (Tagaki Yoshin Ryu) as did Aikedo (sp?).

In my equally humble opinion every martial artist should do Ninjitsu, but i'm bias. :p
I have used Ninjitsu in the above post as an example but my point could equally be applied to other MA's.

[Duncan Mitchell]

Originally posted by Bouk Teef
I certainly do not want to get into X vrs Y argument but from my understanding Ju jitsu (an excellent MA) actually derived from one of the schools of Ninjitsu (Tagaki Yoshin Ryu) as did Aikedo (sp?).

Takagi Yoshin Ryu Jutaijutsu is not a ninjutsu school as such although it is one of the nine schools of which Masaaki Hatsumi (the founder of Bujinkan Dojo Budo Taijutsu) is grandmaster.

The Takagi Yoshin Ryu was one of many styles of jujutsu and it would be incorrect to say that all other styles were developed from it although there are many different branches of this school.

The only connection between the Bujinkan and Aikido was that it's founder was once a student of Takamatsu-sensei for a short time at the Kukishin Ryu Dojo.

[Bouk Teef]

Originally posted by Duncan Mitchell
Takagi Yoshin Ryu Jutaijutsu is not a ninjutsu school as such although it is one of the nine schools of which Masaaki Hatsumi (the founder of Bujinkan Dojo Budo Taijutsu) is grandmaster

The Takagi Yoshin Ryu was one of many styles of jujutsu and it would be incorrect to say that all other styles were developed from it although there are many different branches of this school.

The only connection between the Bujinkan and Aikido was that it's founder was once a student of Takamatsu-sensei for a short time at the Kukishin Ryu Dojo.

Traditionally Tagaki Yoshin Ryu was one of the Samuri Schools (Kukishinden Ryu and Gikan Ryu being the others). I do not know when or who brought the schools of Ninjitsu together into what we have today.

Thank you for providing the info above. I didn't realise there were more than one sytle of Jujutsu.

[cloudgodd]

Actually JUJITSU and AKIDO were around before NINJITSU and the proof is the fact that NINJITSU incorporates AKIDO, JUTITSU, and ancient STREET fighting into a survival philosophy.....but have your opinion, that what it's there for...

[xplasma]

What?!

Akido is only about 100 years old. Ninjutsu can be trace back to fedual japan. And jujustu is a section of the Taijutsu and came around the same time.

For more information

Traditional Samurai Jujutsu -> Aikijutsu -> Aikido ( in the late 1800s)

Ninjutsu at the begining came from a collction of Chinese and Japanese Arts and evoloved since.
This was in the year 1049AD

So if an art that started in 1049 takes after an art that wasn't created till 800 years later, how did they do it....ancient Japanese Time Machine or maybe Ninja magic?

[SilentNightfall]

Not much more to say here. Plasma is right about everything he stated above. Aikido was founded by Morihei Ueshiba in the late 1800's. Because of such, Ninjutsu cannot be said to be derived from Aikido. Also, to say it derived from jujutsu is just misinformed. The samurai caste studied jujutsu, but let us recall that the Ninja were seperated from the rest of society. They developed their own arts to survive. Nowadays, we have schools like the Bujinkan that include both Ninjutsu and jujutsu within the 9 schools. That's the real deal on things. Hope this helps.

[cloudgodd]

TRY AGAIN....

The Kumiuchi is the first known art of Aikido which took place between the 4th and 12th century A.D., please stop read Steven K Hayes, and looking up everything on the internet, and go to class.....

[xplasma]

The offical Aikido history: If you don't believe me post on the Aikido forum.

Aikido's founder, Morihei Ueshiba, was born in Japan on December 14, 1883. As a boy, he often saw local thugs beat up his father for political reasons.He set out to make himself strong so that he could take revenge. He devoted himself to hard physical conditioning and eventually to the practice of martial arts, receiving certificates of mastery in several styles of jujitsu, fencing, and spear fighting. In spite of his impressive physical and martial capabilities, however, he felt very dissatisfied. He began delving into religions in hopes of finding a deeper significance to life, all the while continuing to pursue his studies of budo, or the martial arts. By combining his martial training with his religious and political ideologies, he created the modern martial art of Aikido. Ueshiba decided on the name "Aikido" in 1942 (before that he called his martial art "aikibudo" and "aikinomichi").

On the technical side, Aikido is rooted in several styles ofjujitsu (from which modern judo is also derived), in particular daitoryu-(aiki)jujitsu, as well as sword and spear fighting arts. Oversimplifying somewhat, we may say that Aikido takes the joint locks and throws from jujitsu and combines them with the body movements of sword and spear fighting. However, we must also realize that many Aikido techniques are the result of Master Ueshiba's own innovation.

[cloudgodd]

xplasma
I have seen your post around the board, you have insulted me, you have insulted my Jonin, you have insulted my art, tell you what the next time you and your little computer geek friends decide to take a vacation to south Folrida you let me know, and I will be more that happy to school you in traditional Ninjitsu....

[xplasma]

Fine, whatever, you win. My follwing views I have realized are wrong, and corrected by cloudgodd.

My Corrected Views
1. Aikido is 1600 years old and was the ancient art of the samurai

2. Stephan K Hayes is some sort a ninjutsu
god.

3.Actually JUJITSU and AKIDO were around before NINJITSU

4. Also threatening people digitially somehow is scary.


You're right, I quit responding to you

[Bouk Teef]

At the end of the day it doesn't matter which came first (chicken and egg stuff). Most MA's borrow / steal / incorperate many techniques from other MA's and then call them their own. The human body has worked the same way for over hundreds and thousands of years so a straight arm lock won't have changed over that period. Does anyone know of any fighting systems from 100 000 years ago? If not, then don't worry who came up with what first, because I am sure it will have been discovered long before Ninjuitsu, Akido or Jujuitsu came into recognised forms!

As for threatning somebody over the net Cloudgodd - grow up mate; don't let your ego type for you!!:p

[havoc123]

dude i hate to insult people but cloudgodd ur an idiot. aikido has been around since the 1800's and everything that plasma said is true. i read the exact passage on another offical martial arts site.

USADOJO.com i suggest u check it out and if not then type in Aikido on any search engine and see what it comes up with.

And as for threatening people people online, well again i hate to insult people but ur a loser.

Now do the world a favor and grow up.

[Zamfoo]

remember ninjutsu is not a static art it will incorporate anything that will help those practicing it defend themselves. I wonder why anyone would post a rubbish message like i'm gonna kick your @$$ or anything like that does that have anything to do with the thread??? NOOO