Martial arts myth/realities

[mmafiter]

What do you think of demonstrations of fantastic feats which are attributed to martial arts knowledge?

I find them frustrating and embarrassing to the martial arts community as a whole. When I see some guy laying on a bed of nails, getting kicked in the groin, or other such nonsense, I want to expose him for the phony he is.

Why? Because this type of circus act makes everyone who sweats, bleeds and works hard training look bad. It drives me crazy!:rolleyes:

[YODA]

A great big fat DITTO!

Grrrrr...........

[Freeform]

Depends on what you call martial ability. Anyone seen the Shaolin 'Wheel of Life'?
A lot of 'non' martial applications developed through the martial mindset and discipline.

Thanx

[Thomas Vince]

Oh boy!
Here we go, some people are not going to like me for this!

Let me start by saying that I actually broke a foundation brick after I tossed it into the air, I have on film because it took 5 months of training and focus to accomplish this feat.

I have seen so many "tricks" it makes me sick!
My favorite is the Monk who bends the spear in half while the point of the spear is carefully placed into the throat and as he braces slowly he demonstrates his "chi". How foolish are those who beleive in this type of crap!

Perfect example is just last week one of my Brown Belts was talking about a demo he saw where a Black Belt in Kenjutsu cut a watermelon in half while it was sitting on a students stomach.
I have several swords, more than one is very real, and one specifically is not 440 carbon steel it is real pounded peices of diamond shaped metal. I invited this Brown Belt and others to the studio on a Saturday night and placed the Brown belt suspended between two chairs with a watermelon on his bare skinned abdomen. I took the sword and cut the melon in half. Afterward in his amazement and seemingly "new found respect" for me I revealed his ignorance and naivete', by explaining that the blade will not cut when it hits a soft target and is not "pulled" or "pushed". Waya could prabably explain this in better terms or anyone who is into the discipline of the sword, it has been many years for me.

I believe that fakes should be exposed, we should just be ready to do it ourselves. The problem with this type of crap is that we should learn how to entertain as well as be real in the Martial arts if we want to be visually or monetarily successful.
Good Thread!

[YODA]

Originally posted by Thomas Vince
Oh boy!
Here we go, some people are not going to like me for this!




.............on the contrary, I think you are bang on the money.

Money grabbing attention seeking FAKES!

[LilBunnyRabbit]

I dunno, makes a good magic show. Everyone likes a little magic, its only when they start claiming to be able to do them for real you have a problem.

[Andy Murray]

I'm all for it really.

Most people here wouldn't be in MA if they hadn't been misled or caught up in some film, or mystical nonsense at one time or another.

Those that join MA because they are excited by the violence of UFC events etc, are of far more concern to me.

Of course most people realise Santa Claus doesn't exist at one point, but these showboating 'frauds' don't cause much real damage do they?

The spear bent in the throat is an interesting anotomical trick, anyone care to tell me how it's done?

(I do know, I just want to see who else does)

[SoKKlab]

The spear bent in the throat is an interesting anotomical trick, anyone care to tell me how it's done?
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They are not sharp for a start off. In Close Up they have a rounded point, hence won't puncture the skin. Also the 'Point' is placed so that it veers upwards when it is pressed against the skin, so that it pushes as the back of the flat blade against the throat and not a direct point.

Secondly the shaft is made of highly pliable Bamboo, for it to bend and make a show. Try doing that with a Red Oak staff attached!

[Andy Murray]

Good and no doubt accurate points, but not the real trick!

This could be the new 'One Spear Snapping' thread :D

[Zamfoo]

santa claus isn't real?

[kempocos]

good thread , let me start with I train in KYOSHO /PRESSURE POINTS and TUITE/ JOINT MANIPULATION.

The trick I like is the NO TOUCH KNOCKOUT. There is an large group that sells seminars that claim this as a vaild self defense.
They also sell kiai knockouts but that could be really bad breath.

[Tireces]

I'm all for it really.

Most people here wouldn't be in MA if they hadn't been misled or caught up in some film, or mystical nonsense at one time or another.

Not me.

These mystical tricks never got me interested in martial arts, just made it seem all the more intimidating and imposible to train in. It wasn't UFC either. What started my training was a simple little book I found it in a borders bookstore, and that started me looking all over the place for where I could train in jeet kune do. In my search, I happened to find an article Bruce Lee once wrote on these sorts of magic tricks, and apparently took quite a bit of flak over it in the feedback as well, but I believe he replied back to all of them. Thats why I always liked his approach and viewpoint on the martial arts, he was more practical. It made the idea of martial arts training so much less intimidating and seemed more real and attainable simply by good old fashioned hard work, rather than one requiring some sort of supernatural spirit energy to pull it off.

[stump]

When it's done as entertainment it;s fine. I really enjoyed the Wheel of Life. It's a great show....but it's bugger all to do with martial arts. It's acrobatics

[Jim]

Of course most people realise Santa Claus doesn't exist at one point
Wha.... I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU! :o

[YODA]

Originally posted by stump
When it's done as entertainment it;s fine. I really enjoyed the Wheel of Life. It's a great show....but it's bugger all to do with martial arts. It's acrobatics


***** Applause *****

:D

[ajacxxion]

What about disciplines such as iron shirt Qi Gong, or even t'ai chi chuan, where there are impressive stories such as teachers not being moved by entire classes of students

[47Ronin]

i agreee with tireces also.
i first started because i was getting beat up all the time but i wasnt into it then.
then a year or so later i find this book just titled karate, it was all about shotokan then i looked for traditional karate schools and now i am set.

[SoKKlab]

Try looking at:

http://ofinterest.net/

For rationale explainations of feats such as the Unbendable Arm, Tai Chi's Four Ounces deflects one thousand pounds etc.

Great for skeptics.

[AsSaSiN]

I used to love stuf flike that when i was younger. Its great for kids, but as you grow older, you begin to realise how its done etc. (Rick Flair isnt really a pro-wrestler!?). TBH it does attract people to MA. My mate stareted doing shaolin Kung Fu after watching the monks. He realises now that half the stuff they do is either so horribly easy/misleading its silly, or so insanely hard it takes millions of years of practice. But now, we have one more person ion the world studying MA, which is good. In this sense it is ok, but i the money making, self praise sense( i am amster blah blah and i can do blah blah) its a load of rubbish.

[Maineblue]

If the circus acts and stunts inspires people to take up MA then I see little wrong with it.

I wasn't introduced to MA by some guy performing the same move 300 times while standing in the same spot or breaking a 2" thick piece fo wood

Monkey magic, the water margin and early kung-fu flicks inspired me and although I know the majority of it is fantasy and in no way relates to the reality of the day to day grind of training.

Take it for what it is, entertainment, wooo a bloke can bend a spear with his throat well that is a feat for sure, useless in any real-life sitiuation but it's an acheivement none the less.

[DeLamar.J]

I went on kazaa and endlessly searched for MA vid's. I came across some demonstrations that were very imbarassing to MA IMO. Ones like who can do the most fancy kick. Theese guys are throwing these wild uncontrolled un focused kicks that they could not hit **** with. Doing flips and gymnastics. Since when is gymnastics and doing flips part of MA. They should be doing the floor exercise in the olimpics, not MA. I bet if you put a focus pad in front of those guys doing thier 3 kicks in mid air they could not hit it clean once. They waste all that energy into something that dont even work in a fight. It's just an ego thing, they sit up there with there competitors and stroke off each others egos with back flips and crap like that. Since when is MA becoming about ego. They strut around like they are the shiznit, they should be put in the ring for 5 rounds of full contact afterward so the crowd can see how good there kicks really work. Crap like that pollutes peoples minds. Now the board breaking I somewhat like because at least they can hit something clean.

[Adam]

Delamar J: Who the hell cares? It's supa-cool :D

Seriously, why do so many people care about all the "non street effective" stuff and constantly moan and complain about "that wouldn't work on the street!"

So what? These people are in the arts to have fun, not to be come super-asskicking war machines who "train in a street effective art" Live and let live man.

What does bother me though, is that people get the impression that they actually CAN street fight by doing these things. It should be stressed by the sensei that there are more effective techs to use in a fight than 720 backflip aerial side kicks.

[DeLamar.J]

I see your view. But I guess part of me is still seeing the traditional values of MA and not seeing it a looking cool. Alot of people may see it as cool. I see it as a joke and kinda immature.

[KenpoDavid]

I've seen those clips too... what a waste of bandwidth! It's too funy the way the audience ooos and ahhs over every jump LOL

maybe MAP could host a repository for video clips that don't suck?

[wuchang79]

Depending on the appropiate demonstrations. If its Breaking than that can be attributted to strength training and conditioning. . .the other mystical magic stuff that isn't apart of everyday training should be left to the vegas stage shows. . .

[hongkongfuey]

Try looking at:

http://ofinterest.net/


Nice site SoKKlab. I was also been taught the 'unbendable arm' technique, and worked out the body mechanics of this. I think much of the mysticism (chi in particular) in MA can be explained rationally by looking at how we use the muscles in our body effectivly.

You have to ask though if there is anything wrong with these mystical explinations historically. We live in a science based society - it was not always the same. Perhaps in the past the best explination of an unbendable arm was 'mystic energy' - anything else would not have been understandable to the student. I think however that MA's should 'move with the times' and to try and explain techniques in a modern context.