Kids got their black belts - what's next??

[Tuankaki]

My 2 boys got Jr. Black Belts in Ho Kuk Mu Sul (one got his 1st degree, the other got his 2nd degree) a couple of years ago. Now they don't seem to have an interest in persuing any martial art. They are currently 12 and 13.

Does anybody have experience with kids leaving the arts, and whether or to what extent they ever re-involve themselves with the arts? By the way, my wife has a black belt in Kenpo and I teach Silat, but at this point we don't push martial arts on the kids.... we always viewed it as primary physical education.

[Gi Ma Ja Se]

Ive taught kids for over 10 years now... and ive seen this sooo much, students with such natural ability when they get to black belt tend to just quit!!! Ive seen parents force there kids to keep going, but in the end the talent i once saw fades and becomes lazy and resentful cos there passion is gone.

Its up to them ultimately if they dont wanna go and you force them its not gonna work they have to do it on there own....!

[Ragnarok2005]

I only know one person who got her blackbelt at a young age and actually stuck at it and still does it.

I know a bunch of other kids [12-13 or something] who turn up once a week and think that now having got their blackbelt they're at the end.

I think it's just a childs mentality. The leap from belt to belt isn't all that difficult, but between blackbelt degrees takes years of effort and maybe they don't value the reward enough. I suppose you could try explaining how blackbelt is where the real learning starts or maybe they need a break for a while. Talk to them. :)

[psbn matt]

if they really want to do martial arts then they will come back to it of there own free will. just wait and let them make up there own mind.

[Unknown Entity]

You could try reverse pyschology on them. If you tell a kid to not jump in a puddle...what do they do? They jump in a puddle.

Tell them if they don't want to go then they don't have to but just drop things into conversations about your class/school that will make it sound like they are missing out on something. I've seen it work loads of times.

[coc716]

They're kids; in fact, they're teenagers. They're going to change, they're going to want to explore and try other things... things will come and go.

I wouldn't push it too hard, as that usually backfires with teenagers. ;) You instruct a martial art, your wife's involved. They'll continue to be surrounded by and exposed to martial arts, so it won't be totally off their radar. Let them grow and explore, and if they really want to come back to martial arts they will.

[JSun]

I did the same thing with music and MA. We all know it's a life long pursuit. It might take a few years for them to experiment and find their own identity, but I guarantee they'll be back.

[ember]

I don't think it's just a child's mentality. I think one factor is a Western mentality. How many adults have you seen get their black belts and then disappear? I know in the U.S., at least among non-martial artists, getting a black belt is commonly seen as an end goal. Most people don't realize that there's a lot more to learn afterwards.

I also think *some* of it comes from studying at schools run by a 1st or 2nd degree black belt. Certainly when I was studying Shotokan, with an about 2nd degree Sensei, I didn't have the opportunity to see any neat stuff that might come later. Even when I was studying TKD, at a chain of schools run by a Grandmaster, most of what I saw at my offshoot school was colored belt to 1st degree material.

Their age is the third factor. It's not an exact comparison, but I know that when I reached junior high, Girl Scouts was no longer "cool". Do they have friends their age at the dojang? Or are most of their friends outside the MA community?

I would echo what several other members here say, I strongly recommend you do not force them to practice the martial art. I'm witnessing a situation where that is happening with a couple of kids right now. While I agree that martial arts are good for them, the more their mother pushes, the more they hate being in class.

I only know one person who got her blackbelt at a young age and actually stuck at it and still does it.

I know a bunch of other kids [12-13 or something] who turn up once a week and think that now having got their blackbelt they're at the end.

I think it's just a childs mentality. The leap from belt to belt isn't all that difficult, but between blackbelt degrees takes years of effort and maybe they don't value the reward enough. I suppose you could try explaining how blackbelt is where the real learning starts or maybe they need a break for a while. Talk to them. :)

[Tuankaki]

but at this point we don't push martial arts on the kids.... we always viewed it as primary physical education. Thanks for the responses so far. They're into basketball now, and the older one is getting hooked on street skateboarding. I was just wondering to what extent they ever come back on their own, based on the aggregate experience of folks on this forum....

BTW, the instructor was an 8th degree Korean, and I watched him personally teach every class for over 5 years. He could really run a large class - kids and adults.

[coc716]

Thanks for the responses so far. They're into basketball now, and the older one is getting hooked on street skateboarding. I was just wondering to what extent they ever come back on their own, based on the aggregate experience of folks on this forum....

As long as they've got some sort of healthy and positive activity to keep them busy, to keep them physically active, that's really all that matters.

I don't think there's any sort of blanket statistic on the likelihood of their return to martial arts. It'll just all depend on the individual and their experiences over their coming years.

Meantime, just enjoy your children as they grow. :)

[KickChick]

Hi Tuankaki :) ;)

I can offer my own experience.

My youngest dropped out as a blue belt to concentrate on football ... truly the love of his life (& his fathers' ;) ) although I would have loved him to do both it would have been difficult and would have stressed him out (although I see it happen in our school--kids missing TKD because of a soccer game etc)

My daughter got her black belt at 13. She began at 5 straight from quitting ballet (like her mom ;) )

She never returned :(

She is now at college and decided to check out the Tae Kwon Do club. She tried to get in but unfortunately it was filled. So she obviously still has the interest there. I made her take her certificate up to hamg on her wall as well as her belt :D ... unfortunately the belt is rather small now :o

Give it time .... with both you and your wife involved in the martial arts, it is inevitable that they may find their way back to again train one day! ;)

[shuaichiao]

I know this is off track a little bit, and has probebly been discussed often but, how much talent can sombody have in martial arts at the age of 12-13. I dont see how these kids are given black belts.

Maybe I am wrong and Im not trying to put anyone down but it just doesnt make a lot of sense to me.

I am new to this site, and I have asked questions like this that have pissed people off. I am not trying to do that here. Just want some info because, my school doesnt rank kids that young unless they can truely fight at a balck belt standard.

[psbn matt]

traditional martial arts are about more than just being able to fight, there is a whole cultural and artistic aspect to them as well, open your mind to the fact that not every thing in martial arts revovles around the ring/octagon.
also what is a black belt standard? belts just mark the time you have spent and the knowledge you have gained, not how good you are or weather or not you can apply what you have learnt.

[KickChick]

Your opening up a whole new can of worms.

You can Search thru this site to find threads regarding young black belts

There are arguments for and against.... and a variety of opinions.

The black belt grade is realy no different than green, blue, purple or whatever, it's a measure (to me) of how long you have practiced and how much you know - not always a mark of fighting ability.

[cavallin]

well alternatively some schools offer "junior" black belts. i mean if a kid has been training with dedication the same time as an adult, it's gona be hard for him to stay at black tag till he's 15-16 no?
i agree with junior BBs, but possibly not full ones. i think that you just have to judge the fact that it is a child, so they have more limitations than adults and i think sometimes examiners tend to take that into account.
although saying that, i think children are just as capable as adults at martial arts to be honest. it all depends on the school!

[KickChick]

... maybe we should get back to helping Tuankaki with his original question

[Tuankaki]

FWIW, in this school/system, the local guy can promote to 2nd degree for kids 12 and under. There was one kid who had to test in Korea for 3rd degree, as he was under 12 at the time. BIG system, so the practice was pretty widespread.

In at least one silat lineage I'm aware of, there are 2 tracks of progression, 1) fighter and 2) teacher. Both are valued by the lineage because you need the guys/gals who can throw down, but you also need people to do a great job of bringing up the next generation. But to get to 1st degree, EVERYONE had to show some proficiency and time in grade with the teaching function.

This idea translated very well to my kids' class, as the Master teacher periodically put them in charge of the class for warm ups, and assigned them to instruct the younger ones. My older boy spent his last 2 years getting his 2nd degree in the adult class (13 and up) even though he was 10-12 at the time. And he often led the adult class and instructed adults. And he was treated with deference and respect too. I found this to be a very positive formative experience.

As I said, we saw it as very good primary education for them - and it was never about fighting for us. I've had some 20 adult black belts come to me from other systems. I always show them respect for their achieved rank whether or not they could fight -- and many weren't too good. Yet they met some black belt criteria as adult students/teachers from somewhere. So I imagine everyone sets the "fighter" bar differently, and I don't worry about that too much.

Come to think of it, if I had wanted to train them to fight, I would have done it myself, or asked my wife to do it (much better to have moms teach the boys).

I know this is a slight derail, but I thought I'd share the view from our little corner of the world as it relates to the boys and their training.

[Tuankaki]

Hi Tuankaki :) ;)

I can offer my own experience.

My youngest dropped out as a blue belt to concentrate on football ... truly the love of his life (& his fathers' ;) ) although I would have loved him to do both it would have been difficult and would have stressed him out (although I see it happen in our school--kids missing TKD because of a soccer game etc)

My daughter got her black belt at 13. She began at 5 straight from quitting ballet (like her mom ;) )

She never returned :(

She is now at college and decided to check out the Tae Kwon Do club. She tried to get in but unfortunately it was filled. So she obviously still has the interest there. I made her take her certificate up to hamg on her wall as well as her belt :D ... unfortunately the belt is rather small now :o

Give it time .... with both you and your wife involved in the martial arts, it is inevitable that they may find their way back to again train one day! ;)That's a great story - exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for. Thanks.

[rex00]

Or of course just make them watch a cool martial arts film (matrix for example) and as kids are infulenced a lot by what they see in films they will want to be like Neo/Morhpious and learn to kick ass, then they will come crawling back.

[JSun]

They're into basketball now, and the older one is getting hooked on street skateboarding.

I'm sure practicing MA at young age has *definitely* helped their hand eye coordination, which should help in their basketball game. I bet your oldest kid is going to pick up skating pretty quick, too, as it's all in balance and footwork. Sounds like their staying physical, thats what's important.

[TXKukSoolBB]

Sounds like their staying physical, thats what's important.

I agree JSun some kids today are not active enough. However I wanted to add that in spending the last 15 years of my life earning a living in the secondary public schools (mosty as a teacher/coach and later Principal) that the most important, IMO, is the character building and work ethic development that takes place with kids being involved with activities. Whether it is athletics, martial arts, band, your name it. The lessons they learn through success and yes...failures...are critical for them to maximize their potential in life. There has been a lot of great advice in this thread. I have seen too many parents damage, if not ruin their kids desire for sports because the parents are trying to play out some type of athletic fantasy through their children. I've has the pleasure of coaching some high school kids who later competed at the division 1 college level...but the ones who stick out the most in my mind, where the average kids who worked and trained their butts off because loved to play the game. As has been stated before...expose your kids to many different things...let them find what fuels their heart (as long as it's legal :) )...then support them, encourage them, and then sit back, smile, enjoy and let nature takes it course.

[taescharnhorst]

This is :woo: so true, wow what a great observation. I have seen in our Dojang, not just kicks but adults alike lose passion for the Art. Why is this? well my only conclusion is that their motives were only to achieve the Black Belt. They probably did not make the health benefits their number one reason. Also regarding children I think they grow out of it just like they do dolls and play trucks and want to explore different things in life.

We have a 2nd degree black belt in our Dojang who is only 14 and she use to kick high, throw powerful punches, I mean really do so amazing things and now, Zero.

She don't smile anymore and sighs at the thought of even being there. She rarely performs in any activities and exercises. She even told me that she hates being there. I can understand her position because she wants to explore other ventures in life. I mean kids go from one exreme to another, they always have. One minute they like this and the next they don't. It's like a little girl growing out of Barbie Dolls or something.

So bottom line they grow out of it. Now this is just my honest opinion so I hope nobody takes offense to my statements. Thanks for reading...

[shendu]

I'v seen it so many times since iv started. There was a group of around 5 blackbelts a few years back in my club, all over 20 now none are left, its true than a couple left due to persolnal problems but others just saw it as thte end and stopped.

Again when i got my blackbelt 2 years ago (i had just turned 15) there was me and another guy doing our grading together. About 2 months later he stopped coming to training. Its a pure shame when this hapens as i have seen lots of really amazing talent just dissapear and also lost some very good friends due to them stopping.

[Kwajman]

Too many people view a black belt as an end. Those kids will be 40 years old and still claiming to be black belts, which I guess technically, they will be. But with virtually no kept skills. Its a shame. Its seen way too often.

[ember]

Is it really a shame?

Even our mixed classes split up the young kids and adults. Different ages have different needs. I think most kids are put in MA by their parents, sometimes because the kid asked, other times for an after-school activity, exercise, or after some incident with bullying.

I think the work they put in to complete a black belt as a kid is considerable and to be respected. Hopefully they have learned discipline, persistence, a level of patience, and something about confidence. But I think the prospect of a lifetime of study and repetitive practice can be pretty daunting to a child.

Most adults are there because they want to be there. I do think it's a shame that adults so often see getting their 1st dan as an end, I would hope that adults can see this as an opportunity for a lifetime of study, and have come to enjoy learning and practicing.

Too many people view a black belt as an end. Those kids will be 40 years old and still claiming to be black belts, which I guess technically, they will be. But with virtually no kept skills. Its a shame. Its seen way too often.