Kids teaching adults?

[flyingblackbelt]

Well not really kids persay, I'm 18 and would lead not only the adult class but also the black belt class on average a couple of times a month. I enjoyed teaching both of these classes immensely and for the most part both classes, obviously especially my martial artist peers the black belt class, showed the upmost respect for me. However I noticed a few of the lower ranking, and i dont mean to insult any lower ranking members of this board by saying this, adults seemed to have a hard time taking instructions and, for lack of a better phrase, following orders from someone so much younger than them(especially my father but i think it might have been something entirely different in his case lol). I didnt really see this in the higher ranking adults, generally blue and up, nor did i notice this in any of the black belts, obviously a sign of gaining humility through the ranks. What these adults never seemed to grasp is while they are older than me i have been training for 5 to 10 times longer then them, about 8 years in my current dojang and 2 years before that in a different one, and have been an instructor for nearly 2 years, which is longer than a lot of them have been training. Has anyone else on this board been in any similar situations? Or better yet, do the lower rankings adults on this board, again not to insult anyone, have any insights or feelings on this subject? I am not currently an instructor because i am at my first year of college, although i would jump at the chance of being one for the college should they offer it to me because i really enjoy it, and any insights whatsoever will be greatly appreciated. I plan on opening up my on dojang some where down the line, probably well down the line since im only 18, and am trying to use this big span of time to collect theories and ideas on how to more effectively teach.

[Paratus]

Well I'm a lower ranking MAist and I've noticed this to a degree. I think its just that lower belts haven't yet come to understand and practice humility and modesty to such a degree as the higher belts have, and don't take the instructer as seriously, and haven't yet seen the expritese of the instructer. But this is just opinion so.......

[Seminosukei]

well im 18 as of a couple of months now and i have been teaching aldults scince i was around 14 mainly because master calls me a " freak of nature" but what i found works really well is to get the biggest or the best of the group thats giving you troble and ask him to show you what he has got....the only problem will be that you will have trained as you said for around 2-5 times as long as him and will be a much better sparer/fighter than he is and usually after being taught some humility they start to show respect...
hope i helped
(dont hurt them though only gentle action)
Seminosukei

[Kof_Andy]

I know exactly what your talking about. I been teaching for 6 years and now I'm 21, so that would make me a 15 year old instructor. I never have much problem with adult disrespecting me much when I was younger, but to understand them you have to think like them. Try putting yourself in there situation, would you trust someone that just recently finish puberity teaching you the art of fighting? I think not.
How ever since your instructor put you in teaching position, that proves your qualify to be at where you are at I hope:Alien: Just show them why you are qualify to teach. People dont just follow you and respect you automatically because your a black belt or instructor. Show them what your capable of. Kick/punch harder than anyone, kick/punch faster than any one ,or even do it old school style simply beat some sense in them in a sparring match.
Im 5'7 weight 135 pounds, and I have students that are 2x my size. And they deeply respect me because they know I am capable of improving them physcally and mentally. Hope this helps. PM me if you want more advice.:Angel:

[Jim]

what i found works really well is to get the biggest or the best of the group thats giving you troble and ask him to show you what he has got....the only problem will be that you will have trained as you said for around 2-5 times as long as him and will be a much better sparer/fighter than he is and usually after being taught some humility they start to show respect...
And try not to get too upset when you start losing students. ;)

I have been instructing for a little while now and most of my instructing (and even training) was with people older than me. At one time I was the youngest in the whole group and I was the instructor!

It's a fine line to walk knowing the difference in respect for an instructor and looking at someone as a 'pumped up little peacock'. Be careful in making sure you're after the right thing when you do what you do.

People train in MA's for any number of reasons. I'm pretty sure one of them isn't to be told how to conduct yourself or live your life by someone in a totally different age group than you. Being an instructor should teach you humility too.

[cal_JJJ]

This not an adult vs. youth specific problem flyingblackbelt. I have seen mid-rank youth students disregard the instructions of higher rank youth students. And I have seen the situation that you describe w/ low rank adult students disregarding instruction from youths that out rank them.
The problem is one of perception. Some students look at you and see your experience, and others look at you and see your age. Those students in your Dojo who look at you and see your age need to grow ( in character ), and it is your job to patiently help them on their way down that path.

[Holgate]

In my club we have a 17 year old and I believe a 15 year old teaching the adults...and as far as respect goes from the adults they have it 100% because they are good at what they do. They can relate to the adults because they have been through the grades themselves and know the difficulties and they relate well to the kids because they go to school with them. Everyone knows in class they are to be refered as Sir and Miss...simple as that.

I like the fact the younger ones are encouraged to teach, it isn't just for the art or anything, but getting them to teach people older than themselves does prepare someone for the life ahead, at some point we are all going to have to stand up in front of a group of people who will be older than us, this at least gives them the confidence to do it.

Also as far as I'm concerned, they may be younger than me in years but they are more senior than me in TKD years and therefore deserve some of my respect...

Plus they have real guts to do it because it's as sure as eggs is eggs I couldn't!

[Sub zero]

I got my instructors liscence at 15.I am now almost 18.I don't train in TKD any more but use to.I teach lau gar kung fu.
I have to say i haven't noticed this.........apart form once or twice.

I would advise against brown belts (or red belt black tags) form teaching in small clubs.Likeme.I am now a brown belt, but i should have been black belt say last year.I've been training for almost tenyears.

Getting my BB doesn't concern me to much but teaching has defintly slowed my progress.In a small club like my own (that use to be huge) there are few senior grades.So i teach to help.

[tl Eric]

I find that the best way to gain respect from fellow students is through humility and example. Sometimes when students are new they may not realise that you are capable of advancing their training. In most cases its a matter of earning their respect and friendship

[Kinjiro Tsukasa]

As a low-ranking adult (just went from white belt to 9th kyu green), I have been in this situation, and have no trouble taking instruction from someone younger than I (heck, just about everyone in the dojo is younger than I am!) In the martial arts environment, one should be humble enough to receive instruction from whoever is qualified to give it. We have had a young black belt student substitute for our Sensei on occasion, and I have utmost respect for his abilities (both in technique and teaching skill) and his gentlemanly behavior, so no problem there. There are some young people who are just a grade level or two ahead of me; I don't mind when they correct me, either, because they have gone before me, and I can learn from them.

[flyingblackbelt]

thanks to everyone for their opinion, and its not really that they dont respect me, its little things like when im showing them their forms they tend to not wait until i call out the move but rather move while im showing it to them, which they dont do while the head instructor is teaching. That and apparently some of them have gone up to my instructor and said that i went to hard in the class and i forgot that the adults might not be able to do everything physically that the kids can do, thats fair enough, my instructor told me this and i can take constructive criticism, so i slowed the class down a little. Then apparently the same people told my instructor that i was going to slow, even he said that its probabaly just that they dont like having someone so much younger than them teaching because hes watched while i teach, on a very few number of ocassions hes actually taken the class, because hes had office work to do and even he said that i wasnt doing anything really different than he was. Anyways, just wanted some input thanks again.

[morphus]

Flyingblackbelt - i would have no problem in take any instruction from you if you show the knowledge, which you obviously do as your instructor wouldn't let you instruct at all.
I have seen this type of attitude with a women instructor too.
Mr Beefy walks into the dojo & thinks how can a "little woman" teach him anything?
The answer is simply ignorance & anyone or most that have been in MA's for a decent amount of time learns to discard their ignorance (those that have it). You'll learn to look passed their ignorance just as they will!:cool:

[KickChick]

Originally posted by flyingblackbelt
I enjoyed teaching both of these classes immensely and for the most part both classes, obviously especially my martial artist peers the black belt class, showed the upmost respect for me.

I've enjoyed being taught by you ... and yes, I believe respect is mutual.
Not only have I enjoyed being taught by you... but I have learned so much.
Teaching takes certain key skills. It takes leadership (foremost), maturity (not equatable to age), originality and variety (just a dash, to establish your own teaching style and to keep the students interested), intuition (thinking outside the box), and an eye for what wrong technique looks like and how to fix it. A good black belt may be able to show you how a technique SHOULD be done, but will not necessarily be able to point out why you are doing it wrong.

I think that is also an important aspect of being a good instructor -- being able to definitively show a student that they are doing a technique wrong, and show them why. Confidence in your own technique is key, because if you are not confident with your own skill, why should your students be confident in you? (where my own personal problem lies... but we won't go into that)
You are confident!

Originally posted by flyingblackbelt
However I noticed a few of the lower ranking.... adults seemed to have a hard time taking instructions and, for lack of a better phrase, following orders from someone so much younger than them(especially my father but i think it might have been something entirely different in his case lol)..

I have alot to say about "those lower belts" that I choose not to say here. Suffice it to say that many of them have a hard time taking instruction .. period. As far as your dad.... well, I don't know how he managed through class ... (although he did manage a few comments under his breath)

Basically, I believe what you are asking is that does or can the adult student take instruction from a younger instructor?
I haven't had a problem with that in our school because I have had complete confidence in the instruction I was given. (although there was a year that I took off for reasons regarding my instruction that we won't go into here)

Originally posted by flyingblackbelt
I am not currently an instructor because i am at my first year of college,)..
WE MISS YOU!!!!!!

Originally posted by flyingblackbelt
I I plan on opening up my on dojang some where down the line, probably well down the line since im only 18, and am trying to use this big span of time to collect theories and ideas on how to more effectively teach.

Keep me in mind... I need a job!
By then I may be more confident in my abilities to teach TKD.... (and have all my forms remembered!! ;) )

[Andy Murray]

Apologies for butting in.

How necessary is the divide between Teacher and Student?

It's not the Army.

We're not in School.

We're not employee's.

We learn as much from our fellow students as we do from our Instructors?

Why the authority issue?

[Taeho]

I'm a 34 year old Sr blue belt. I must admit that checking your pride at the dojang door is the biggest lesson that can be taught to older new students.

I have been taught by 16-21 year old instuctors and find it exilerating. Just seeing the level of MA abilities at such early ages makes me wish my parents would have let me join when I was their age. ( they were anamately apposed to my learning how to "beat people up")

I joined TKD 1 year ago with my two sons ages 12 and 13. We are having the time of our lives, and really getting closer to one another I might add.

My only gripe is 9 (or so) year old 2 dan black belts that can't throw a descent side kick. Otherwise, I'm very proud of the younger blackbelts at my school. I see "cubs" starting at age 4 and wonder what degree of skill they will have attained by my age. You have to respect that.

TKDshane Ÿ

[flyingblackbelt]

thanks kickchick, i miss training there too, and i really need to train, and youknow i can understand my dad muttering things and hes even told me its very hard to be taught anything by your child, i can definately appreciate that(atleast hes being honest although addressing him is akward because when were in the dojang and im instructing it just feels wierd to call one of my students dad, lol). Oh and im glad you noticed this too, i though it might just have been in my head. And morphus, i love when those guys walk into the school and then get their butts kicked by the female blackbelts, by the way guys one things ive learned from my 2 years of teaching is that females have a tendency to be better at the art then males. Oh and kickchick, you need to be more confident in your abilities, i would have you teach at my dojang anyday.

[Thomas]

Originally posted by Andy Murray
Apologies for butting in.

How necessary is the divide between Teacher and Student?

It's not the Army.

We're not in School.

We're not employee's.

We learn as much from our fellow students as we do from our Instructors?

Why the authority issue?

Andy... I understand what you are saying. In this case, please keep in mind that we do have an established heirarchy in Taekwondo and unless we own/run our own school, we cannot avoid this. Granted, some instructors take their rank way too seriously. (Yes, we do learn from other students as well, but most students look to the instructor FIRST as the proper way of doing something.)

However, as an instructor, I need the students to do what I tell them in class for several reasons, mainly to prevent injuries, to use time effectively and to help ensure that students are being trained with respect to theri levels and abilities. Without the discipline in a FORMAL class, especially a large one, it may result in a waste of time and potential injuries. In an informal class, you can be mnore relaxed.

On the original topic, I think in many schools, students need a bit of time to get to know the instructor... beginners have gotten used to one instructor (or the master) and only trust information form that one person. Some people have a problem with gender and/or age and need to see first that the person is competant.

It is not limited just to age... I left the school 4 years ago to train in Korea. When I came back, I joined the class (mostly unknown people) and later was appointed assistant instructor. I dealt with a lot of resistance because I did things "differently", because they didn't know me and becauise I look a bit old, fat and slow (of which I am not).

I taught them the best I could and tried to make training practical, exciting and fun at times. I worked with everyone one on one when I could. I led by example and now after a few months as "assistant instructor", they class trusts me and I have no resistance. I am not a stickler on protocol but I expect the students' attention when I instruct and work with them... not because I am the "teacher" but because I have a lesson to share and I want it to be effective. The respect and attention should be given to EVERYONE who is sharing, not just "black belts or instructors" by the way.

[Jim]

some of them have gone up to my instructor and said that i went to hard in the class
There's an issue right there. If I had people come up to me after a class to complain about another instructor (or just to give 'feedback') I'd ask them to take it up with that instructor first and see me only if that didn't work. Chain of command, people! There for a reason.

[Taeho]

That's the problem. With our societys obsession with lawsuits and litigation, most insrtuctors are affraid to be "hard" on a class for fear of being sued. I personally like the challenge. I hate it when new less experience instructor don't push me as hard as they know I can go. I feel "jipped". Make me sweat, hurt, cry darnit. I'm paying good money for this!

TKDshane Ÿ

[KickChick]

Funny you should say that TKDshane ! We had an exceptionally gruelling class this past week. Repetitive bag kicking (mega amount), tension kicks (holding for a minute), relay drills (kicking wavemasters the length of the dojo in team races), then ended with forms (after each form--down for 25 push ups) for black belts that was a total of some 250 pushups ... so everyone at end of class walked (no hobbled) to change muttering ....".......and we pay for this???"

[flyingblackbelt]

oh man, i cant believe i missed a class like that, i love those classes, oh well, better luck next time.

[Taeho]

Those are the best classes. Granted, during the clas you are saying to yourself, "what am I doing? This is killing me...". But then after class you get this euphoric pleasure in having survived it...heheh

TKDshane Ÿ

[ballistic]

I guess it may be an interesting point that Bruce Lee started teaching when he was 19. Some people listened to him
i think age only matters if your cheese!

[Taeho]

Unfortunately Bruce Lee died when he was 23, so the world will never know his full potential....Sorry for the off topic.

I just read a really good Bruce Lee Biography and its fresh in my mind.

TKDshane Ÿ

[LabanB]

>Unfortunately Bruce Lee died when he was 23, so the world will never know his full potential....Sorry for the off topic.<

23????? Try 33. I think the bio you read may have a few errors ;-)

Bill

[Taeho]

Sorry...that was a typo....I meant to post 33....Darn fingers.

TKDshane Ÿ

[eudobex]

Well I am an 'asst.instructor' but I only really have problems with kids between about 9 and 14. I am 15 and being a girl, makes it worse. but I find that the little kids look up at me like some kind of hero, and the adults just treat me like a fellow student, I think thins is the best way to be. Even if I have to take a whole class, its best to be on the same level as the people you are teaching and have a laugh with them. If you start taking it too seriously and trying to teach like its an army drill, one you take the fun out of it, (people are doing it because they enjoy it) two, they wont take you seriously, and three, you just look stupid and up yourself. So just play it cool, they know that you are their senior, and if they don't like it tough, they don't have to come, it willl be no lose of yours. If i have a problem with some one, I just leave them to get it all wrong then when the instructor comes back they are the one who looks stupid when every one else knows it.

1st Dan

[Jiraiya]

How necessary is the divide between Teacher and Student? It's not the Army. We're not in School. We're not employee's.
We learn as much from our fellow students as we do from our Instructors?
Why the authority issue? If I interpret what you said as questioning how formal or informal a class should be, I would say this: The school where I train is semi-formal, except during belt tests or (from what I hear) if a grandmaster is visiting. The level of formality also otherwise varies by instructor.

I think it is more conducive to learning when a balance can be struck between rigid formality and a less formal relaxed atmosphere. But I think that the instructors want to maintain a certain level of order and respect among the ranks. If they feel this respect is lapsing or someone is screwing around, they let us know.

Now, as far as kids teaching adults. I am 28. I don't care if a 10-year old is correcting my technique. I look at pretty much everyone in my class as a "teacher", regardless of rank.

[ipscshooter]

I didn't start TKD until I was 40+, with my sons, who were then 6 and 13. There were a lot of younger students in the class who outranked me. I never had any problem with learning from them. To me, it was a matter of mutual respect. The high ranking youngsters (we had a 2nd dan who was about 15, and several 1st dans who were in the 15-18 age range) were always very respectful to older students, and always had a lot to offer us. As a result, it was always quite easy for us to treat them with the respect due to a black belt (regardless of age). They were black belts because they earned it, and they respected the obligations that the rank placed on them.

Maybe if they had been cocky, and demanded respect, it would have been more difficult to learn from them.

Instead of being cocky, they were self-assured, confident. And instead of demanding respect, they earned it through their abilities, their actions in the dojang, and their treatment of fellow students. I never looked at any of those guys as "kids" trying to teach "grown-ups". They were higher ranking fellow students who could help me learn and grow while advancing in the art.

My sons and I have all reached 1st Dan now, and I find myself relying on the youngest, now 11, a lot. He's the most physically capable of the three of us at performing the more advanced kicking techniques, and he learns hyungs much faster than I do. So, when I end up stuck on a move half way through Gae-Bek... he gets to be my teacher. :)

[Nyghtewynd]

Edited quote:


How necessary is the divide between Teacher and Student?

We learn as much from our fellow students as we do from our Instructors?

Why the authority issue?

I think that there's going to be authority levels whether we want them or not, so you might as well set them up and work with them. :) Even when people say "everyone's equal in this group", they're not really. Some people work harder, some people's opinions count more, etc.

And it's not only to honor higher belts, but also to protect other people from bad opinions. In "RL", I have a title, I talk to people, I teach, etc. If one of the people from school came into TKD class, my white belt is a clear sign that it would be better to ask questions of someone else. :)

Just my opinion, of course....

[Deep6]

I asked this question to a few colleagues, all of whom have been practicing a martial art significantly longer than I have.

What would they think of taking instruction from higher ranking child?

The answers, from both male and female practitioners, had remarkably recuring themes.

All have not and would not be willing to pay for instruction from a minor.
Being an excellent technician is not the same as being an effective teacher. Most people teaching the martial arts have no formal trainning in education and rely on the methods that ther instructor uses. This is ok, when tempered with experience. A 15 year old 3rd degree black belt really knows his way around a dojo and probably a tournament ring. His technique is no doubt exceptional. Regardless of all of that he probably has no idea of physical or mental or psychological disabilities and how to present concepts to those that are outside the bell shaped curve. He doesn't realize that I was self conscious about taking this class to begin with because I am old and fat, and arthritic and bald and sweat profusely etc, etc. When the requirement is 20 push-ups and I can only do 5 what is he going to say/do.
When everyone else is ready to move on with a new sequence in kata and I haven't grasped the previous sequence, How is he going to encourage me. Will he use platitudes, tell me how hard he had it when he was young.

There just isn't enough experience with a diverse cross section of people to make adult students feel confident with a young instructor.

What about legal ramifications. To new students sparring, and one gets hurt. Who was in charge? a 15,16,17 year old. That will close down a dojo.

One common question that was also posed by practitioners was in what art are these minor instructors teaching. I certainly don't want to insult anyone, or question their training or dedication, but are these primarily sport/tournament based arts? People that I have looked to for advice have never heard of an 18 year old 3rd Dan. Shodan at 18 yes, but to them the point of having a qualified instructor under 18 is moot because no one of 15,16,17 years could be 2,3,4 dan.

I hope to have not insulted or offended. Forums like this have been instrumental in my growth as practioner. I just want to point out that some adults will take rational exception to child who is an instructor. And it has nothing to do with ego.

C

[JohnG]

There just isn't enough experience with a diverse cross section of people to make adult students feel confident with a young instructor.

I think that just about sums it up!

I have been in volved with teaching MA since passing my first Dan aged 21 (albeit as an assistant with small groups to start with). I knew all the forms, techniques etc, but I couldn't command the respect of more mature students. Whether this was down to my ability as an Instructor or my personality, I don't know. But now aged 30, I find no problem in gaining the respect and confidence of my students.

I think the major part of this is because of the confidence that 9-10 years of experience gives me.

[CodeRunner]

I know what you mean, I am 18 and have been training since I was 6 and have been teaching since I was 14. I really don't have any problems with adults not listening to me there was one instance where some parents of a 13 year old kid did not like it so they ended up leaving but other than that most people realize that I have been training most of life and respect me.

[JohnG]

I know what you mean, I am 18 and have been training since I was 6 and have been teaching since I was 14. I really don't have any problems with adults not listening to me there was one instance where some parents of a 13 year old kid did not like it so they ended up leaving but other than that most people realize that I have been training most of life and respect me.

It's just one of those things you've got to deal with CodeRunner.

If people are too arrogant to learn from someone with 4 years teaching(regardless of age) and 12 years of MA, then they are a bit silly.

[Thomas]

I know what you mean, I am 18 and have been training since I was 6 and have been teaching since I was 14. I really don't have any problems with adults not listening to me there was one instance where some parents of a 13 year old kid did not like it so they ended up leaving but other than that most people realize that I have been training most of life and respect me.

I didn't realize you were so young... your posts are very mature and well thought out (meant as a compliment, not an insult to other teenagers). You have earned your 4th dan by age 18, which is quite a feat (I think the bare minimum age for WTF 4th dans who began with a poom rank is 18).

Anyway, how do older new students tend to react to you when they first meet you? As a 14 year old instructor, did you teach kids or adults, and how did that go? Do you get many new students "testing" you?

[CodeRunner]

Thanks, I earned my 4th a little bit before I turned 18 so technically I was a poom I was glad to turn 18 so it will be a DAN,
When I was 14 I tought mostly younger but some older. Most people don't seem to have a problem with it or if they do they don't express it. As far as trying to test me, it just takes patience to get them to realize. There was a time where my master spoke to the entire class and kinda bragged on me and it helped people realize that I have earned it. A big problem with young instructers is they let their ego get in the way.

[Jang Bong]

As a first-time MA student starting at 40, I have always been the oldest and least experienced in the class. Never had any problem with respect for anyone who can instruct me (down the 11-years-old), but then again I start from a basis of respect for everyone until they do something to lose that respect.

Deep6 seemed to go off on a slight tangent from 'taking instruction from a minor' to 'having a minor run the class'. Sorry if I read that wrong, but the instruction I got from the 11-year-old was when our teacher said "Mark, take these two through xxx form" - I can't see any reasonable minded adult finding fault with that.

One young man (I choose words carefully) who was 17 when I met him, had the air and behaviour of someone 5 years older - without any arrogance or need to prove anything. I thank him for all I learned from him those first few months as a white belt tried to fit into a class that had not had a new member in some time, and all the adults were at or approaching black belt.

It is true that I could teach young Mark a couple of things about 'teaching', but as the adult I adapted to his lack of worldliness and 'learned' from him anyway.

CodeRunner - we are from different arts, but I would be honoured to learn from you judging by your posts.

Tang Soo!!

[Topher]

I have found a few 'higher ranking' teenages (around 12 yrs old) tend to get a bit cocky when teaching other students/adults. Although, there still kids dispite there rank so its no real suprise. This generally only occurs to the students they know the students they teach.

[CodeRunner]

Ya I went went through a little bit of a cocky attitude stage when I was 16 but part of that was brought on my me getting motorcycle which is another story. But like they say "power corrupts"

[ClumsyFoot]

CodeRunner, I've enjoyed the thread.

Question: What did you do/experience that helped you out of that cocky stage? Also, did you notice any difference in how well you were received as an instructor depending on your attitude?

The reason I ask, the degree of cockiness displayed by the younger instructor seems to make a difference to most of the adult MMAs that I know. And I'll admit it impacts me as well, regardless of the instructor's age. You know, the confident vs. cocky distinction.

But there's always something to be learned from others.

[megk]

I am a 30 year old soon to be red belt. My master never would have allowed any disrespect at any level in the dojang. If he sees us disrespecting eachother in any way we will either get talked to or we'll have to do several push-ups. He usually does this to the whole class so one person is'nt singled out the first time. Also I must admit my Master is an excellent teacher and there is no way any one is getting a black belt that does'nt deserve it. I was at a tournament a while back and there was such lack of skill it was incredible...and we're talkin red belts up to black belts.

[dfilson]

I had a quite long and extensive reply typed once, but after reading it thought it wouldn't come off the way I wanted it too so I'll shoot for something simplier. For all the younger BBs out there forced to deal with us older lower ranks.......have patience, be humble, and always remember that respect is something that has to be earned no matter what your rank is. And for all the lower ranks out there like myself forced to deal with much younger instructors........have patience, look past the age to what they are trying to teach, and don't forget every great instructor has to start somewhere!

[Kwajman]

Well, even if you don't necessarily respect the teacher, you should respect the rank. See what the teen has to offer, use it or throw it out if it doesn't size up, and then move on to another instructor if possible. If you eventually get the same student instructor all the time, then theres a problem.

[imawimp]

I had to go back to the original thread to see what exactly was going on here. This thread is actually pretty old, but Im going to throw in my two cents anyway.

I thought this part stood out from the rest.

What these adults never seemed to grasp is while they are older than me i have been training for 5 to 10 times longer then them, about 8 years in my current dojang and 2 years before that in a different one, and have been an instructor for nearly 2 years, which is longer than a lot of them have been training.

I think I may see part of the problem.

While our young instructor friend isnt wrong to say he deserves respect from the students he is instructing. He needs to see the other view point before he can understand the issue.

In order to help, I will demonstrate by pretending to be a student faced with a cocky 16 yr old instructor:

"What this kid doesnt seem to grasp is that while he has spent the last 10 years learning Tae Kwon Do, I have been supporting myself and a family, making house payments, spending at least 40 hours a week at a job that has ruined my back and knees, feeding kids, mowing yards and cleaning dog poop off the floor. Now Im spending a signifigant amount of money and time to take martial arts classes and this kid is crapping all over me in class. Why am I paying for this?"

Thats a little extreme - but I think its close to the mark.

Expecting respect for your rank and accomplishments is not unreasonable. But it may help things a bit if you remember that you are not the only person in the room that has accomplishments to be proud of.

Simply put, respect your students first - see what happens next.






:)

[CodeRunner]

I don't think their is anything wrong with a little arogance but don't think you are at the top. There is always someone better than you.
Clumsy-Foot - the cocky stage that i went through had partly too do with me getting a sportbike and I would go out and ride with my friends and do wheelies and stunts till 3am. I have done more stupid things on that bike than with anything else, I mean me and one of my good friends ran the cops, and you know they say you can't out run the radio, well you can but anyways i got real cocky with that bike and though i was untouchable well this not only affected me on my bike I got an attitude at TKD and with my parents instead of taking problems to my parents I tried to be independent and do it all myself. It took me wrecking that bike and the pain from it and the financial expenses to realize I just wasn't on top of the world.

[animefreak88]

seeing as how i just recently got my black belt, i'll admit i might be going through some slight cockiness. but seeing as how i my black belt test can teach a person a GREAT deal of humility, i don't think its that bad. but i don't think it affects my teaching any. once i get to teaching somebody something, i practically forget about rank. the only part rank plays in my mind is the standard i hold a student to. i become focused on trying to make sure the person can do the technique properly. basically, my sense of responsibility kicks in before my sense of ego, and takes precedence over my ego aswell. i've noticed sometimes its hard to get that full attention from a full grown adult that the adult black belts can, but its not usually a problem.

[Mark_Campbell]

I think that a youngster taking a class of adults has two options

1. act like a child
2. act like an adult

now you cant be an instructor and be a child to your students, they`ll walk all over you out of human nature,no person, no matter how accomidating they are, will continue to support a teacher who doesnt have the confidence or the authority to take a class, if you want someone to follow your orders you have to be the authority, you need to be confident, now a young student trying out this role to take a class is different from his normal behaviour (unless he is naturally an arrogent person)

its not the fact that them student becomes arrogent whilst taking a class out of some feeling of superiority, its that your seeing an unconventional adult confidence from your former child student, responding to a pressure situation, before in your class he acted with total humility, now he`s acting with total authority

p.s make sure your student has the ability to back up the authority!!!

[oddTKD]

I've run into that, too - I started asst. teaching when I got my blackbelt at 15. It's not often, but occasionally you get (especailly beginners) who just don't want to act like adults. Being female doesn't ever help in that situation, and I thinnk someone else said that.

For now, though, I'm finding myself in the opposite position (at least until I can find a TKD school here). Just started shotokan karate at college, and I'm suddenly NOT a black belt, NOT an asst. instructor, and NOT anywhere near being one of the most highest-ranking students. A lot of the techniques are similar or the exact same, though, so I need to hold myself back from acting like an asst. instructor.

[JohnnyX]

In my Karate Association, you cannot be an Instructor until you are 18, (no matter what rank you are.)

I think it fits quite well because here in the UK, there are a few other things that you can't do until you are 18.

The Chief Instructor has over 40 Years MA experience, and I think he's weighed it all up and come up with a fairly sensible 'rule of thumb'.

Cheers. :)

[megk]

Again the key word here is respect. If you do not respect eachother in all aspects of your life then you are not training the TKD that I know. RESPECT is the key on both sides of the fence. CodeRunner...Arrogance is unattractive and harmful to you and others. Confidence is good, arrogance is bad. Don't be proud of being arrogant, be proud of being confident.

[Maratimer]

I think why most adults have a problem with kids teaching them is maturity. In my past experience seeing kids teach adults was not a good idea. First off responding to the post above "a 14 year old challenging a 200 pound adult to a fight I don't care how long the kid has been training this isn't Hollywood 99 times out of 100 the kid is going to get hurt (reality check). Hopefully the adult is mature enough to bow out. Second a 14 year old only has to worry about getting to school on time before the recess bell rings. Most adults have family's to support and to provide for (kids to take to karate class). Also adults tend to learn at a much faster rate. I for one do not allow kids to teach adults in a class setting. I will you usually wait till there at least 18. We don't promote minors to shodan (black belt) until they are 18. We usually give them a junior black belt ranking. The main reason for this is instructors are there to teach classes not play the junk yard dog role. The person in the previous post says "I find the biggest meanest guy and take him on" this is a child mentality not an adult or teacher mentality. With that said, this doesn't mean that juniors can't assist in helping out I think it's very important that juniors be involved. I also believe that juniors can teach small groups UNDER SUPERVISION. There is a huge difference when it comes to accountability with an adult and a child. If anything happens the police will be at the adults door not the Childs and the adult instructor will be asked why he left a child in charge. Until you can sign your own permission slips you have no business giving directions to adults in and adult capacity. Weather your an adult or a child you should always show adults the proper respect or curtsy. Finally being an adult or a child you should never engage in confrontation or an "ego fight". You go to school to learn not pick fights.

[AgentOrangeXIII]

In regards to Maratimer's remarks, I began as an apprentice at age 12, learning how to be an instructor. I think it did an INCREDIBLE amount for me developmentally. Granted I wasn't teaching adult or advanced classes, but I was still lerning how to instruct. Thus, when the time came to lead a class on my own, when I was older, I was very well prepared.

In referance to the discussions before about earning adult respect, I can only go from my experience. Adults that don't know who you are can't (though they should) respect you because of your young age, no matter what belt rank you are. This is why I switch off teaching the adult class, and taking the adult class. When taking the adult class, I am once again a student, and the key is to be the perfect student. Adults see anyone putting out all their energy into everything they do, they have to respect that. Intensity, Focus, and everything else that entails a martial arts student, you must embody for that class (at the BARE MINIMUM, that class, not to mention every class), and let the adults know 1. you know what you're doing 2. that you are committed (or should be, ha ha), and 3. that you bring something unique to their training.

After all that, in my own personal experience, we had a board breaking night. Having seniority, I broke last. A tornado roundhouse kick speed break through 3 boards. Nothin impressive for me cause i've done it before and seen more impressive breaks. But to the adult students, it was kinda big. After which we all went to the diner, where I showed them I'm not always a big tough serious instructor.

Respect is a very personal thing. Adults respect people they know. So get personal (not too personal) and have some fun (not in class). ha ha

Good luck!!!