Does TKD need korean?

[mattsylvester]

Simply that. Should students have to learn Korean or should they be allowed to train in their native language?

Just asking as I've trained in Korean over in holland and it's completely different over here in England.

[craigwarren]

Grandmaster Rhee is always telling us how its not Korean but "Tae Kwon Do Terminology". It ensures that every practitioner of TKD can communicate at some level no matter where they are from.

So I think its important.

[mattsylvester]

Fine,

But I can guarantee you won't recognise the terminology at all if you train with non-English speakers as they will pronounce it differently. And if that happens then there's no point to it.

Originally posted by craigwarren
Grandmaster Rhee is always telling us how its not Korean but "Tae Kwon Do Terminology". It ensures that every practitioner of TKD can communicate at some level no matter where they are from.

So I think its important.

[Holgate]

training for us is primarly in English, but we do have to learn Korean termonology for gradings (along with other theory). I think learning the terms are useful because if you do get the chance to train elsewhere then at least you will be able to do something because there will be some common ground.

I have to admit I have a shocking problem when it comes to learning the korean, but then it comes out of my dyslexia, I've quickly found out if your dyslexic in one language you'll be dyslexic in all of them :D

It's just something useful to know but we shouldn't be totally reliant on it.

[TheBorderer]

I think you should have both, because at first the Korean language used in TKD can confuse, however you begin to learn it does make logical sense!

OK say this move in Dan Gun(ok so it happens to be the first one! :D)

Niunja So Sonkal Kaunde Daebi Magki ---> L-Stance: Midddle section, knife hand(or ridge hand, see even in your native language there can be confusion to over what terms are used for a move or body part! :D) Guarding block

In that you can pull out common words used say "Makgi" = block, when I was white belt and listenin to the korean of the other moves from the coloured belts I got to a point where when I hear cetain words, I know what move they are going to do (of course I was still paying attention to the moves told to our current rank! :D) but I just find it helpful (as it does make logical sense!), in a way you could liken in to "lego" where say you could pul out the "Kaunde" in that move and replace it with "Najunde" or not use "sonkal" and just have it so your using the forearm's to black (whether that would be inner or outter, i guess all very much depends! :)) or whatever, so it's a similar move, but with a set difference some will disagree of course, fair enough, but what I would say is this, surely it is a bit disrespectful to the art(and im talking about any art and not just TKD in this instance) if you don't know some of the terminology in the language that art originated in? Of course I guess you could call that a "tradition" then and some folk think that certain traditions shouldn't be carried on with. Fair enough, the end result in training is the same.

Another one of those subjective "personal/instructor preference" questions I guess. :)

[KickChick]

As I see it, we don't use very much Korean terminology at our school and we consider our "style" more traditional than most
Aside from "directives" such as Charyet and Kung Yeht, Chunbi, Ba Ro, Shoit and Kiap (is that Korean??) names of techniques are in English except when our master instructor throws the Korean term out to the class... more of an FYI thing
Maybe because our school is named the American Institute of TKD;)
... I suppose if we had Korean instructors it would be different .. no?

[Thomas]

Does TKD need Korean? No... but it can be a good thing.

Good things about teaching/learning Korean in class:
(1) Allows you to understand what is being discussed in reference books... and if you read Korean, you can double check what is written (often, the Korean books have English translations that are not very clear).

(2) If you go to Korea to study, or go to seminars with Korean masters, you will understand them when they speak... thereby making the learning experience better.

(3) It maintains a bit of tradition, linking the style to the culture and ideas of Korea, not just a generic "fighting art".


The down side:
(1) Many people don't pronounce them correctly. Unless you've studied Korean and can read Korean, the various ways of Romanization can be very confusing (there are 4 official Romanization systems in Korea). Many people don't have motivation/time/access to learn Korean just to be able to use a few classroom phrases.

(2) In Korean, there are many ways of describing various techniques... if you look through several Korean TKD texts (I have 4 in front of me now)... you'll see several different ways of describing the same techniques. (Much of it depends if the author uses the more formal Sino-Korean names or the native Korean ones).

(3) Spending a lot of time on language can take away from training time in the martial art.

At our school we use a few phrases (including counting numbers) and I teach a it of the pronunciation. We don't use a lot, just enough to get by with classroom start/finish and some terms for techniques. It adds an element of tradition but doesn't distract from our class topics.

P.S. Kickchick, yes, "Ki Hap" is a Korean term, from energy (ki) and unity (hap) and is used in Korea for the 'yell'.

[KickChick]

Thanks Thomas! ... I knew that... but as of late what I believe to be the correct Korean term isn't:( ....

Yes we count in Korean also ...

At our school we use a few phrases (including counting numbers) and I teach a it of the pronunciation. We don't use a lot, just enough to get by with classroom start/finish and some terms for techniques. It adds an element of tradition but doesn't distract from our class topics.

I like this!! http://216.40.249.192/s/contrib/ruinkai/biggthumpup.gif

[neryo_tkd]

i think it's ok to know some korean, because in some books you can only find korean words for certain techniques...we always use korean words for leg techniques (apchagi....neryochagi...). my students know what a chagi is, what jirugi, what maki means....we start and finish the trainings with korean commands and my students like it very much. that's the way i learned tkd and that's the way i am doing it too at my club.

[YODA]

When Koreans took some Karate (don't tell me they didn't) to add to their native arts (Pfft - sound of can-o-worms opening) - did they keep the Japanese terms for the techniques? Do they speak or count in Japanese? No - I thought not.

So why should you, as westerners, speak or count in Korean?

[Freeform]

Bang on brother Yoda! Although it is arguable that using a common terminology allows practitioners of various nationalities to train together even if they can't speak each others lingo!

Now if only we could get that pronunciation correct! :D

Col

[Helm]

We learn everything in english as its easier to understand.
I think we let our TKD technique talk for itself at competitions. I think its very idealistic to use korean to integrate your training into another language.

People just starting TKD have enough problems learning the techniques, let alone their names.

[neryo_tkd]

i don't think that it is that difficult. it's not that we talk in korean all the time. we are just using some korean terms.

[Monoxide1346]

I think the korean languedge should be kept in the martial arts because koreans made it. Think about it, if they took the languedge out, then your taking away culture. In my dojo(i take ninjitsu), we count and speak some japaneese, so i think we should keep the martial arts the way they are.

(By the way, im korean)

[stump]

>>>I think the korean languedge should be kept in the martial arts because koreans made it>>>

Monoxide....I refer you to Yodas post!!!!

[neryo_tkd]

i agree with u people, leave the language!!!

[YODA]

Originally posted by neryo_tkd
i agree with u people, leave the language!!!

You don't agree with ME then :D

Ditch the language!

[WorldChampTKD]

I think it's important. In our class it isn't strictly taught, we learn things in korean that we use to bow in and out, like flag, and bow, and victory and instructor, and stuff like that, and we count in korean for like pushups or stretching and things like that, but I know a lot of classes that teach all the kicks and commands in korean, and we don't do that. I think it's important, but my class only uses some korean.

[hocsr]

We use a lot of Korean, as both of our Masters are Korean from Yong-In. I think its important to keep the tradition, plus the kids learn about another culture as well as learning TKD and they seem to really enjoy it. It makes for an educational experience that you don't get from American masters and instructors. I am not insulting american masters, many I know are as good if not better than a lot of Korean masters, I just feel that learning Korean culture lends itself to the overall TKD experience.

[Kwajman]

Like Kickchick, we learn some terminology and since our 3 main instructors are native Koreans, we do learn it to pronounce it correctly. Commands, greetings, and a few other phrases are said in Korean. If we mispronounce them, we are gently corrected. I think it adds to the MA experience, if you don't like it, find another school or learn the bare minimum.

[Yang, Dae-han]

Originally posted by mattsylvester
Fine,

But I can guarantee you won't recognise the terminology at all if you train with non-English speakers as they will pronounce it differently. And if that happens then there's no point to it.

Actually, I won't recognise most of your (the general public) Korean, and I am a native English speaker (sorta, 'twas my second language...). Don't worry, Korean is hard to learn and pronounce, as is English with (let's use) Asian speakers.

As for should we? Yes.
Must we? No.

Would we all have a common ground if we all spoke Korean/TKD terminology? No. I've taught several foreigners and many Koreans while here in Korea (and vice vera while Stateside), and both groups utilised different languages, yet could 'communicate' through actions.

Example, when I came to this board, I didn't know exactly what "neryo chagi" was, but I could guess what it meant. 'Neryo' means 'come down - from being up'...kinda like someone coming down the stairs. However, we say Jjik-gi in (my area of) Korea. Same problem with other terms and uses, and that is assuming comprehensible pronunciation. So it isn't my Korean ability that let's us 'communicate' about the art, but my ability/experience.

In addition, what/when is the cut-off for utilising Korean in the class? I suggest bare minimum (this is subjective).


However, let's use football (soccer) as an example. As for as I've noticed, the world uses English in their football terminology, albeit vast differences in pronunciation (let alone grammar errors that make my ears twinge).

Basic rules/terms; corner, free kick, red card, shoot, goal "in" ... (bloody grammar mistake), are common uses of a unified language in the sport. Yet, the training and explanation will most likely take place in different languages.

Same for Taekwondo.

Oh, and I frequently don't understand 'native' English speakers either.

Cheers,

Yang, Dae-han

[neryo_tkd]

Originally posted by Yang, Dae-han
Example, when I came to this board, I didn't know exactly what "neryo chagi" was, but I could guess what it meant. 'Neryo' means 'come down - from being up'...kinda like someone coming down the stairs. However, we say Jjik-gi in (my area of) Korea. Same problem with other terms and uses, and that is assuming comprehensible pronunciation. So it isn't my Korean ability that let's us 'communicate' about the art, but my ability/experience.


well...the most important thing is that we understand each other, but i have to say that korean terms have really come in handy. an American girl is training at my club. when i explain something i do it in croatian, i can't repeat everything all the time in english too. it would take too much of the time. i demonstrate the techniques of course, but using korean words has made it easier for both of us, me and her.

[Thomas]

Originally posted by YODA
You don't agree with ME then :D

Ditch the language!

I seem to remember in another post (elbows: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6457) that you initially used specific MT terms to reply, and later clarified their meanings in English. I wonder, if you are against using other languages in martial arts, why you would use specific MT terms and not just English immediately? When you teach, do you use any foreign terms at all?

As I wrote before, adding the language is a nice thing and can add a bit of cultural depth to the study of one's art. My policy is to teach a bit but not to let that little bit of teaching take away from our (precious) training time. I teach terms while conducting warm-ups or while explaining techniques... usually students pick up on some off the stuff after a few repetitions and the ones who really want to learn get help from me after class.

[Edward Hsu]

look at it from a competition point.....
Those involved in WTF Taekwondo and have experience as a competitor,coach,parent or referee know that Olympic style sparring reguires understanding many rules,regulations and penalties.For the trained coach or certified referee through seminars / experience they have an understanding of what's going on(Even though the rules seem to change every day!)but for the inexperienced competitor ,parent or spectator it's complete gibberish....

I have had a Korean Grandmaster for the past 20 years,understand traditions and etiquette and have been involved in WTF .However,I am also involved in an organization,The National Taekwondo Commission that has made it easier for all to understand what's going on.All commands are in english,including penalties...penalties are explained and not in signals.We have used this in our Little League Taekwondo(a team oriented Taekwondo sport program and through our event's commision( We provide all aspects to hosting competition,mat's, electronic scoring systems, referees and adminstration....all of this was started by a Korean Master

[mattsylvester]

I'm now currently teaching and decided to drop the Korean.

One reason is this http://www.practical-martial-arts.co.uk/practical_tkd/kor_dictionary_az.html. There are some many differences in both pronounciation and spelling for the techniques that I seriously doubt I'd recognise them.

For example;

Chungdan Makki

An palmok momtong bakat makki

Kaunde an palmok makgi

An palmok kaunde makgi

Are all the same block! How on earth are you supposed to follow a common language and get so many differences? I took this from the www.tkd2cd.com website.

My students have actually professed a preference for not having to learn the Korean so I'm glad. I have included the terminology in the appendices of the syllabus though for those students that are interested in such things.

[Kwajman]

Well, we wouldn't get very far with some guy yelling at us in Korean, us standing around going, huh? But in our school we do learn a fair bit of Korean. Kicks, punches, counting, weapons, a few things like that. I'm not very good at it, but we're learning.

[Poop-Loops]

Originally posted by YODA
When Koreans took some Karate (don't tell me they didn't) to add to their native arts (Pfft - sound of can-o-worms opening) - did they keep the Japanese terms for the techniques? Do they speak or count in Japanese? No - I thought not.

So why should you, as westerners, speak or count in Korean?

They made a new style out of what they took, so they can make it in their language.

If you've ever studied (or know) a 2nd language, you'll know some words or concepts just don't translate nicely or at all sometimes. Even Tae Kwon Do itself. "Foot fist way"? I think not.

In class, we mostly use English terms for stuff, but for tests and forms, you need to know the TKD terminology.

PL

[TigerAnsTKDLove]

ahh... good question. yes i train using korean terminology heres some hana, dool, set, net, du sut, yo sut, llgoupe, yo derl, ah hope, yoll.

[estranged13]

i agree with the consecious, but for a different reason, i think that its important to leave the Korean in it as part of the history of it. (Yes there is Japanese Karate in TKD but thats also part of the history) If you deter too much from the art, it'll be watered down even more then it already is.