European Championships 3rd June 06

[Unknown Entity]

Who's all going this year?

[AirNick]

I'll be there. It's in Lowestoft this year I believe.

[Unknown Entity]

With your laptop under your arm I guess?

How come its over there this year in Lowestoft?

[Unknown Entity]

Just checked the wksa website and its saying Norwich. Has there been some change or something?

[AirNick]

Yep, as ever

Don't quote me on this but I think that Norwich Sports Village is no more which is a shame. It has been sold to David Lloyd's (the health club people) and they aren't going to hire it out apparently. End of and era eh?

There are going to be more tournaments next year as well. Holland and Scotland as well I hear.

[Unknown Entity]

Holland sounds like a good laugh if you ask me.

Wonder if we'll catch any masters in a cafe? lol

[davefly76]

i'll be there.

i had heard of a holland comp aswell, should be, ahem, fun.

:)

[KSN GT]

great a tournament in scotland! means goodbye to the 9 hour drive and being stiff as hell from 5 people cramped into the car!!! wont miss that! hope we get a good turn out.

please come visit us

interesting to see where its held?

any ideas?

[psbn matt]

don't worry GT i'll gladly come up and take all your medals back to england :D :D

[Unknown Entity]

Whooa the beatins that Maxine has dished out on you really has affected...so much so you're picking on a JKN now....be nice Matt.... :D

[kswgreenman]

There are going to be more tournaments next year as well. Holland and Scotland as well I hear.

Ooh, just in time for me moving to Scotland! How handy :D

[mr shoosh]

ks matt just like i used to come to england and take all your medals back to scotland lol :)

[Unknown Entity]

oooo i think we have some rivalry going on here. I think we should have an open division for all belts to compete in....winner takes all!!!

[mr shoosh]

yeah entity that would be gr8 idea but then again it means we would have to compete against kj darren and watson lol but i think it would be gr8 to have a scottish tournament be interesting to see how many students travel from england we have traveled down since the very first tournaments :rolleyes:

[Unknown Entity]

As much as I would die against KJN's Hart and Watson I would love the experience of competing against them. We could put bets on how far KJN Hart would kick someone and how fast KJN Watson could knock someone out. :D

I don't care where a tournament is, I'll travel to it whether its 1 mile or 10,000 miles.

[DL.Demolition]

I have heard nothing of a Scottish tournament. Where did this come from?

What a shame about Norwhich. I will miss competing in that hall. I hope the new venue is just as good.

DL

[mr shoosh]

thats good to hear entity be good to hook up with you all and take u out in scotland show u a good time,despite what u may have heard there are a lot of kool ppl up here training :)

[DL.Demolition]

I think this is realy great news for KSW. The more tournaments the better.

I am looking forward to traveling to different tournaments already

DL

[KsnMmC-Scotland]

The Scotland tournament has been talked about for a few years now. SBN Don Mackenzie being the highest ranked in Scotland with the most students under him will most likely be holding the tournament between Edinburgh & Glasgow. If SBN Don has other commitments(FAMILY WITH A YOUNG NEXT GENERATION & WORK) only other venue it would be is Inverness with PSBN Ian Cameron. Tournaments are good for Kuk Sool and I am all for them. It's just a shame some people think the medals won competing in a Kuk Sool closed event against say 8-15 people make you brilliant in M.A. We have been travelling down to England form as far as Thurso, which is top of Scotland since 1991, for the first UK Championships. Be nice to see how it's supported and how many show and how well they do away from home.

[Unknown Entity]

I think a good idea would be to have the UK Tournament in a set place but then move the European champs around. To help promote Kuk Sool and to help build the schools I think they should host the Euro Champs at a different location each year with the location being where a school is situated. I think this would help raise awareness of Kuk Sool as well as help get new members for each school when it came to there area.

It would also even out the travelling for everyone concerned.

Whats does everyone think of this?

[mr shoosh]

yeah entity i totally agree regional tournaments wouls do more for the promotion of kuk sool in the uk than any advert in a magazine and its also a way to pull all the uk closer together and to raise the standard of kuk sool generally in the uk, also good for students in the sense of new location less boredom,im all for the uk growing from strengh to strengh and regional tournament will move us in the right direction

[KsnMmC-Scotland]

I think the U.K Tournament & The European should move venue and school every year. Only thing is the UK should stay in the UK but move to a different venue each time. The European has to come to UK sometimes but has to move out of UK to be valid. Then the Scottish should be a each year as well. This way Kuk Sool will grow and become strong and people will here of Kuk Sool all over.

[Unknown Entity]

The Scotland tournament has been talked about for a few years now. SBN Don Mackenzie being the highest ranked in Scotland with the most students under him will most likely be holding the tournament between Edinburgh & Glasgow. If SBN Don has other commitments(FAMILY WITH A YOUNG NEXT GENERATION & WORK) only other venue it would be is Inverness with PSBN Ian Cameron. Tournaments are good for Kuk Sool and I am all for them. It's just a shame some people think the medals won competing in a Kuk Sool closed event against say 8-15 people make you brilliant in M.A. We have been travelling down to England form as far as Thurso, which is top of Scotland since 1991, for the first UK Championships. Be nice to see how it's supported and how many show and how well they do away from home.

Personally I don't think that the location really affects how the person performs unless you travel like you say from the top of scotland and get to the tournament with 5 minutes to spar. I think most people tend to stay a few days so really it shouldn't affect things.

There are a few people unfortunately who think being a tournament winner makes them amazing.

Personally I couldn't care less about the medals as it is only one day out of a lifetime of training. I enjoy it for the new people you meet and the old friends you get to catch up with....that and watching the 6yr olds spar...lol...some of them I'm pretty sure would give KJN Watson a run for his money and I mean no disrespect to the man....these kids are fearless..lol

I think there needs to be a big shake up in the UK to help bring all the schools closer together like you say as there seems to be some bad rivalry between some. From seeing this standing at the side as an outsider I would be put off by this as there are some egos out there that damage the standard of kuk sool....big deal if there ability is great...if they haven't got the right attitude then ability is nothing. Everyone needs to start working together as single unit to promote and strengthen kuk sool in the Uk as it will benefit everyone in it.

[AirNick]

I think it's great as well that we are having more tournaments but let's be honest, how many people do you think are going to travel up from the South?

The turnout at the Birmingham tournament is a lot smaller than Norwich and that is only a couple of hours drive for a lot of people. I know a lot of schools don't bother with that one. I think a lot of students think one tournament a year is enough.

That's alright though, nothing wrong with smaller tournaments. I have been to the last 3 Spanish ones and they are always good.

[AirNick]

Oh yeah, Ian Cameron is a SBN now isn't he?

[Unknown Entity]

I think Birmingham has lower numbers not just to being further north but mainly because of the time of year. Its 4 weeks before xmas and not everyone will be able to get time off or have spare cash to be able to afford to go. I think so long as the tournaments are at reasonable times in the year then they should be fine.

We'll probably also see an increase in numbers from the areas around where the tournaments will be held which will compensate for less numbers from further away.

[DL.Demolition]

Oh yeah, Ian Cameron is a SBN now isn't he?


I believe so sir.

Imagine a regional tournament in Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales one day.
Would be good to see. And then a Uk champs and then on to the Euro Champs.

I would love that!

[AirNick]

One thing that has been spoken about in the past that I think is a great idea was a sort of 'league' concept. The champs of the regionals compete against each other at the UK, then winner of say UK, Spain, Holland, Germany, Italy battle it out at the European. Winner of that goes to America and competes against their champion, Venezeulan, Korean etc.

Would have been really cool though eh?

[mr shoosh]

it can only be a good thing getting regional tournaments and i know thats the way that wksa wants to go in the uk, as for rivarly in kuk sool tournaments thats bound to happen coz the competitive element in tournaments speaking for our schools our door is always open to any students from any school to visit and train at any time and we have had students visit from as far away as master lees school and they were made very welcome and had a gr8 time training so if u ever want a weekend up here just drop an email and we can sort somethin out

[DL.Demolition]

One thing that has been spoken about in the past that I think is a great idea was a sort of 'league' concept. The champs of the regionals compete against each other at the UK, then winner of say UK, Spain, Holland, Germany, Italy battle it out at the European. Winner of that goes to America and competes against their champion, Venezeulan, Korean etc.

Would have been really cool though eh?

I think this sounds realy interesting but also sounds like alot of work to organise. I like the openness of the current competitions and would like to see that continue.

[Unknown Entity]

Rivalry in a light hearted sense is good, as it promotes healthy competition, but when you have 2 students who take it beyond on that and start acting up squaring up to each other wanting to take it outside it makes it look bad. That as well as all the back chat and bad mouthing that goes on long after the event just spoils what is otherwise a great environment.

[Mung Kee]

Tournaments are fine and having a Scottish one is a good idea. Although I wouldn't want Kuk Sool to go down the route of having 5 or 6 tournaments a year! If I wanted a competitive MA, there are others that I would have chosen. I like Kuk Sool cos it's not like this!!

What I'd prefer is more Master seminars - every couple of months. Gets everybody together without all the ego that goes with tournament. Quite a few other MA have monthly seminars all over the country but I only seem to see 1 a year!! :cry:

You can learn so much from these guys and it's a shame that their knowledge is not passed on more often to more people other than their direct students!!

[Gi Ma Ja Se]

tournaments are all well and good and having 1 year was great... then came 2 this was ok but now were talking of 3-4 maybe 5 in europe and 3 of these in the uk alone!! sooo my point is this it always falls on the same people to organise these events and puts alot of stress as pulling off a tourny is no easy feat!! plannings takes several months!! its just gets tooo much to have tournys every 3 months!!

my second point is this, people such as a white belt or any black belt and below are looking at a very long progression ladder! you need 2 months minimum to train and perfect your forms for tourny and this results in your other forms/techs etc being ignored as you tourny training is alot different to testing training. And as you will no doubt focus on your tourny stuff in order to do as well as you can you will not progress as quick!! so with having too main tournys and a complex and indepth art like KSW will result in the lower belts leaving due to lack of progression and frustration.

I understand that schools far away from say noriwch wish to have there own tourny in there area in sence of pride for there area etc and I do believe that tournies should be moved to different locations but i think we should keep to 2 a year possible 1 and just have new venues for it every year!!! or the winning grand champ school gets to host it!!

just my 2p... back to work now :D

[Silentmonk]

I understand that schools far away from say noriwch wish to have there own tourny in there area in sence of pride for there area etc and I do believe that tournies should be moved to different locations but i think we should keep to 2 a year possible 1 and just have new venues for it every year!!! or the winning grand champ school gets to host it!!

just my 2p... back to work now :D

Yeah think it would be fairer to change the location myself as the winning schools would always be the same ones. Not because of skill level but because of the ease of their students getting there. Or we need to revise the scoring system because at the moment its a numbers game really. Thats not fair on the schools who travel the furthest. :)

[Unknown Entity]

Yeah totally agree, we should have more seminars.

This would definitely help expand everyones knowledge as it would give everyone a chance to cover specialist topics.

[psbn matt]

ohh i like that, give everyone who travels more than 3 hours extra points, and give evryone who travels less than 1 hour point deductions. that would even up the numbers game.

[Gi Ma Ja Se]

airnick is gonna love you lot.... do you know how hard that would be to control oh my gosh!!!

im all for it though lol pmsl at nick working all this out as well as doing all the scoring inputs for the day im sure nick will thank you for that one matt

[psbn matt]

it's not like airnick does much at a tornament anyway (apart from losing to you gi ma ja se)lol

[Silentmonk]

How about someway of tying the points to the number of active students you have as members and the proportion of them that take part????? :D also how about only your top three divisions scores count. Takes out the weighting of the black belts divisions a bit. Ok i'm being unrealistic and Nick will shoot me in a minute no doubt for making it even more complicated. lol :D

[AirNick]

Oi, I'm stressed out enough as it is on tournament day! Stop thinking of more work for me to do!!!

[Unknown Entity]

Could we not get Airnick to also run the stall that sells dvds and manuals etc. Help cut back on labour etc.

Sorry....couldn't resist! :D

[Choiyoungwoo]

The purpose of the tournament is to make money. now there are more of the smaller regional tourneys in the U. S. also. The only thing more profitable that a regional tourney held at a rec center ( which is a relatively cheap venue) is Black Belt testing. The U.K. and the rest of europe are very fertile ground. Seminars are third in line of profitability. All three of these events establish WKSA as the authority. Which it is. But there is no suprise that there are more events comining in the future. This is all carefully thought out, I can assure you. Not evil, just business. sooo my point is this it always falls on the same people to organise these events and puts alot of stress as pulling off a tourny is no easy feat!! plannings takes several months!! its just gets tooo much to have tournys every 3 months!!
And these dedicated people will soon tire of having to bear the load. especially when this work is done pro-bono in most cases. (i have never seen anyone get paid by wksa for do that kind of work... I support WKSA, with my time, effort, money, and heart, but there is a limit for all of us. I could go into a long narrative about how the neo-Confucianist hierarchy in asian cultures (and in KSW) lends itself toward this entire scenario. but I would probably burst some bubbles. ...\
.
How about someway of tying the points to the number of active students you have as members and the proportion of them that take part????? also how about only your top three divisions scores count. Takes out the weighting of the black belts divisions a bit. Ok i'm being unrealistic and Nick will shoot me in a minute no doubt for making it even more complicated. lol
.
This won't happen because it would encourage small school to stay that way . Limiting growth. And it requires effort and thought......more work for no additional benefit from the perspective of the host. The procedures that are the easiest to implement, with the least amout of work and the highest level of participation is what will happen. This is why there will never be a judges training system (other than a morning meeting b4 the tourney starts). (someone suggested that in another thread)

[AirNick]

Could we not get Airnick to also run the stall that sells dvds and manuals etc. Help cut back on labour etc.

Sorry....couldn't resist! :D
Well, I was giving out medals and doing the microphone as well at one point in Birmingham last year :eek:

[AirNick]

Yeah I agree Choi.

There actually was a judges training system over here a few years back, don't think it is still going on though. The rule was that everyone that judged at a tourney had to have passed this little test (we got certificates and everything).

We used to have judging training quite regularly as well back in the day but I think it has fallen by the way side recently.

[Unknown Entity]

I thought there was a training course for becoming a judge????

[Silentmonk]

still think the total points should be divided by the number of students on the clubs books present or not at the tournament it would be a fairer reflaction of the clubs overall performance and teaching. Also i don't think this could affect growth too much as there is no cash prize to the winning school so the instructors best interest would be to get as many students as they can. It just wouldn't give the impression that some schools are better than others when in fact its just because more people competed. Hell tis true about Nick though am sure i saw a broom shoved somewhere so he could sweep the floor as he walked too. Bless him lol :D

[KSW_123]

Tournaments also provide a venue for advanced belts to demonstrate. This is an important part of their training.

[davefly76]

Yeah I agree Choi.

There actually was a judges training system over here a few years back, don't think it is still going on though. The rule was that everyone that judged at a tourney had to have passed this little test (we got certificates and everything).

We used to have judging training quite regularly as well back in the day but I think it has fallen by the way side recently.

i attended a judges training course about 3 years ago and was presented with a certificate after passing a test. (i think i got 23 out of 24 :D :D )

at the time they said that it would be a regular thing but i haven't heard of anything since, not even a refresher course. which is a shame as i think it would make tournament judging that little bit more professional.

:)

[davefly76]

Well, I was giving out medals and doing the microphone as well at one point in Birmingham last year :eek:

i suppose silentmonk was off skiving somewhere :D

the problem is that there aren't enough people who are willing to give up their weekend just to help out.

i sat on the back of a cramped, cold minibus for 3 hours to get to the november tournament for the sole reason to judge or help in any way that i could. now i don't expect a medal for doing this, it was more of a case that i felt that i should go because of all the times when i was coloured belt and the tournaments were held 20 miles from where i live alot of people gave up thier time to be there and i wanted to repay them and give something back. :Angel:

[Unknown Entity]

All those in favour of Silentmonk doing the judging and computer work on his own say ye! lol

[Choiyoungwoo]

i attended a judges training course about 3 years ago and was presented with a certificate after passing a test. (i think i got 23 out of 24 :D :D )

at the time they said that it would be a regular thing but i haven't heard of anything since, not even a refresher course. which is a shame as i think it would make tournament judging that little bit more professional.

:)
I agree it would make it seem more professional, but professionals get paid for thier expertise and service.............not gonna happen.............the general idea is that because of ones "dedication" to KSW they feel compelled to help out, and that notion grows as an "expectation" as you gain rank. over time this feeling fades when people get over the initial "novelity" of being a judge in a position of authority that they don't normally experience. Time passes, this happens over and over, one still does this out of a sense of obligation or loyality, but a subconcious feeling of resentment begins to occur. because in order to be loyal and dedicated one must give up more important family and personal time to "help" with little or no recognition, gratitude, or compensation in any way. That resentment is eventually directed toward thier personal instructor because they encouraged the whole scenario for the same reason as well. The black belt eventually fades or quits, the teacher loses a student that was once very dedicated, and the source of the whole problem is never made aware of what happens. Which means no remedy will ever occur. But there are plenty of new black belts coming up, they can do it. and the cycle starts again. Then people are amazed when masters leave?
I think there is no shame in modeling KSw competition after people who run them well......say.......wtf tkd????

[Silentmonk]

i suppose silentmonk was off skiving somewhere :D



No Fly boy, this is the point i arrived and decided to help the stressed AirNick out :Angel: It was also the point I realised how many hard to pronounce surnames there are practicing Kuk Sool :D

[Silentmonk]

All those in favour of Silentmonk doing the judging and computer work on his own say ye! lol

I have enough trouble with an abacus ( I probably can't even spell it, lol) :D

[KSW_Martley]

Is it confirmed then where this years tournament will be held?

[Silentmonk]

Is it confirmed then where this years tournament will be held?

Yes lowestoft waveney leisure centre :) well it was that on sunday anyway.

[psbn matt]

there is also another judging training session for new black belts this year as well, so if your a bb and haven't done it find out about it and go, as we are allways short of judges on the day.

[ember]

I've been to three in the last six months, and that's a *little* much, but then World was more about seeing Korea than about competing, for me.

Two "local" tournaments a year seems perfect for me. I appreciated the smaller venue of the most recent Texas tournament, it's going to help me in future competitions.

I don't have a real good sense of how big the WKSA is around Europe. I know there's something like 4-5 tournaments in the U.S. each year, but I haven't been in the habit of travelling for tournament.

tournaments are all well and good and having 1 year was great... then came 2 this was ok but now were talking of 3-4 maybe 5 in europe and 3 of these in the uk alone!! sooo my point is this it always falls on the same people to organise these events and puts alot of stress as pulling off a tourny is no easy feat!! plannings takes several months!! its just gets tooo much to have tournys every 3 months!!

[davefly76]

I don't have a real good sense of how big the WKSA is around Europe. I know there's something like 4-5 tournaments in the U.S. each year, but I haven't been in the habit of travelling for tournament.

in the relatively short while that i've been training (7 years) it has got bigger and bigger.

afaik we used to only have one tournament a year in the U.K but recently that has been know as the european competition and there is now a second " UK tournament". also for the last two or three years there has been a tournament in spain and there are plans for one in holland next year.

:)

[ember]

It used to be that the Texas tournament was only held when the World Tournament was elsewhere. What I've heard indicates that they'd now like to make it an annual spring event.

Unfortunately for the association (though not for me), between spring break, the September Texas tournament, and possibly also falling the day after St. Patrick's, it was the smallest tournament I've seen.

What I was hearing in Korea is that World will be in Texas this year, Netherlands next year, and then back to Korea in 2008. I gather they're trying to make it a real world tournament, and catch some of y'all who may not be able to come this side of the pond :)

From my corporate experience, I suspect that if Holland is the World tournament, you'll have a lot more "help" from the Association setting it up than you want!

in the relatively short while that i've been training (7 years) it has got bigger and bigger.

afaik we used to only have one tournament a year in the U.K but recently that has been know as the european competition and there is now a second " UK tournament". also for the last two or three years there has been a tournament in spain and there are plans for one in holland next year.

:)

[Gi Ma Ja Se]

Holland..... oh my gosh theres only a handfull of schools there!!! why not in the UK were well over due for a world tournament i reckon!!!

[davefly76]

personally i think that tournaments in the uk should be held somewhere bigger and more well known. the NEC arena would be good (where they filmed gladiators LOL :D ). it could give kuk sool a massive push and raise the profile in the uk.

plus jet might still be hanging around LOL :love:

[Silentmonk]

personally i think that tournaments in the uk should be held somewhere bigger and more well known. the NEC arena would be good (where they filmed gladiators LOL :D ). it could give kuk sool a massive push and raise the profile in the uk.

plus jet might still be hanging around LOL :love:

think the assosciation is too scared that it might lose money Dave thats why it doesn't happen.

Jet is about 96 now isn't she???? :D

[davefly76]

Jet is about 96 now isn't she???? :D


Not that i've done any research :o but she is 36 :D

i would think that somewhere like the NEC would cost a lot of money. alot more than the norwich sports village, but you know, in business you have to spend money to make money.

:)

[KSW_Martley]

The NEC would be really cool though. A good thing in most cases any way you look at it.

[Gi Ma Ja Se]

i believe the tourny entrance fees pay for the rent of the sports village.... so if the association booked the NEC then tourny entrance fees would definately go up!!!

[Unknown Entity]

Has anyone noticed that the UK Champs are now going to be in Norwich.

http://www.kuksoolwon.com/news02_dates.html

Is there going to be one in the summer now as this seems to have dropped off the web now??????

[Gi Ma Ja Se]

good find... as far as i know the summer one is still going ahead ive heard not different..... so looks like 2 tournies in east anglia

[AirNick]

That's odd but must be a typo. There is definitely a tournament in Lowestoft in June. Would be surprised if November wasn't in Birmingham again as well.

[Choiyoungwoo]

think the assosciation is too scared that it might lose money Dave thats why it doesn't happen. :D

WKSA will never spend $ for that. you are correct monk. Don't expect anything like that to ever happen.

[rex00]

Ill be there, I think ill be able to go for grand chapion in the 2+ black stripes this year. just need to learn one more set of techniques and a form to get it.

[Wolf]

You guys have grand champion categories for under blackbelts?

[AirNick]

You guys have grand champion categories for under blackbelts?
Yeah it's a UK only thing seemingly. There is an adult and junior under black belt grand champ. Both are trophies that get engraved and handed back each year.

[rex00]

I'd have to hand it back? :cry: . You would think with the rediculos amount of money we pay to stufy ksw and enter the tournaments they could afford a couple of £100 to give us permanent trophies.

[You Won Hwa]

You would think ... they could afford a couple of £100 to give us permanent trophies.Look at it this way: it is not only the "green" thing to do, as fewer valuable resources are being used, but it keeps your house from looking like a trophy case. You still get to keep the medals, right? And the trophy is like an heirloom, and everyone else who ever gets it will be remembering YOU! Long after you would be tired of lugging the thing from flat to flat, someone else will be admiring it, and all the people who had it before him.

[Choiyoungwoo]

I'd have to hand it back? :cry: . You would think with the rediculos amount of money we pay to stufy ksw and enter the tournaments they could afford a couple of £100 to give us permanent trophies.


Yes I agree you would think that , but you would be wrong. Don't ask........

[AirNick]

All the black belt trophies are kept, it's just the under black belts that get given back. I think it's cool to see everyones name on there from the past. I was the first person ever to win it and never got my name engraved on it. Now nobody believes I won it :cry:

[Silentmonk]

All the black belt trophies are kept, it's just the under black belts that get given back. I think it's cool to see everyones name on there from the past. I was the first person ever to win it and never got my name engraved on it. Now nobody believes I won it :cry:

I do matey i remember you bringing it to class. And BREAKING IT!!!!! :D

[psbn matt]

nick gets upset about this, as it's the only trophy he has been able to win so far (or ever likely to win once i get into his division :D ).

[Silentmonk]

nick gets upset about this, as it's the only trophy he has been able to win so far

And it he only won it cos he was competing against 14 year olds. He was 25 at the time. He swears its not his fault and the judges said it was easy to make the mistake and enter him in the wrong age group. They were just assuming anyone so small must be a teenager. :D :D :D

[psbn matt]

ha ha ha ha!!!!