What are you gonna do?????

[Choiyoungwoo]

Ok the reality is that , despite some popular belief, someday Kuk Sa Nim is going to die. The next logical question id .....What happens to WKSA? and how will his passing effect you? While most of us will follow our instructors I would assume, how will his passing effect KSW overall?

I don't mean to be morbid but I thought this would make an interesting thread.

[Unknown Entity]

Ok I know I'm probably going to get some stick for this but this is how I see it.

Kuk Sool Won is a great martial art and the majority of people in it are great, but over the years Kuk Sa Nims greed has caused many splits and lost many top instructors.

When Kuk Sa Nim does pass away I think it will affect everyone as without him we really would be practicing the art that we all love so much.

With regards to the WKSA, I am sure that when KJN Sung Jin Suh gets the leadership passed over from his father that he will take Kuk Sool from strength to strength. I can only hope that KJN Suh takes steps to try and stop the politics involved in Kuk Sool making it better for everyone. With any luck he will take it back to being a martial art and not just a money maker with no thought for the students and instructors.

Overall Kuk Sa Nims passing will upset people including myself but I think KJN Sung Jin Suh will take Kuk Sool to a new level.

I know alot of people will think I am bitter towards the organisation, I'm not. I love the art and will practice it and teach it until I am no longer physically able to.

Is that a can of worms I have just opened?????

PS - Excellent thread!

[davefly76]

in all honesty i don't think his passing will personally affect me or my training as i am not particularly high up the tree.

obviously i will be saddened at his loss, as i would be for any person who i have alot of respect for. after all i don't think i'd be practicing any martial art if it weren't for him and his dedication to create kuk sool won.

:)

[Silentmonk]

in all honesty i don't think his passing will personally affect me or my training as i am not particularly high up the tree.

obviously i will be saddened at his loss, as i would be for any person who i have alot of respect for. after all i don't think i'd be practicing any martial art if it weren't for him and his dedication to create kuk sool won.

:)

DaveFly for grandmaster.... HAHA it affects you now flyboy :D God i hate talking about people dying who are alive. I think on a global thing it will make the art more popular as anyone who takes over the running of the organisation will be more westernised having spent more of their lifes in this culture. So therefore will be perhaps more approachable. I can see there being more splits as certain masters may think hang on why aren't i in control now. It could cause a lot of problems in kuk sool. Me and my training!?! honestly......... the only way it might affect me is i end up walking another path again. Been there done that doesn't scare me so therefore will enjoy it while its around deal with the consequences if and when it happens. :D

[Choiyoungwoo]

Ok I know I'm probably going to get some stick for this but this is how I see it.

Kuk Sool Won is a great martial art and the majority of people in it are great, but over the years Kuk Sa Nims greed has caused many splits and lost many top instructors.

When Kuk Sa Nim does pass away I think it will affect everyone as without him we really would be practicing the art that we all love so much.

With regards to the WKSA, I am sure that when KJN Sung Jin Suh gets the leadership passed over from his father that he will take Kuk Sool from strength to strength. I can only hope that KJN Suh takes steps to try and stop the politics involved in Kuk Sool making it better for everyone. With any luck he will take it back to being a martial art and not just a money maker with no thought for the students and instructors.

Overall Kuk Sa Nims passing will upset people including myself but I think KJN Sung Jin Suh will take Kuk Sool to a new level.

I know alot of people will think I am bitter towards the organisation, I'm not. I love the art and will practice it and teach it until I am no longer physically able to.

Is that a can of worms I have just opened?????

PS - Excellent thread!

what exactly is sung jin kjn going to do different

[Choiyoungwoo]

Ok I know I'm probably going to get some stick for this but this is how I see it.

Kuk Sool Won is a great martial art and the majority of people in it are great, but over the years Kuk Sa Nims greed has caused many splits and lost many top instructors.

When Kuk Sa Nim does pass away I think it will affect everyone as without him we really would be practicing the art that we all love so much.

With regards to the WKSA, I am sure that when KJN Sung Jin Suh gets the leadership passed over from his father that he will take Kuk Sool from strength to strength. I can only hope that KJN Suh takes steps to try and stop the politics involved in Kuk Sool making it better for everyone. With any luck he will take it back to being a martial art and not just a money maker with no thought for the students and instructors.

Overall Kuk Sa Nims passing will upset people including myself but I think KJN Sung Jin Suh will take Kuk Sool to a new level.

I know alot of people will think I am bitter towards the organisation, I'm not. I love the art and will practice it and teach it until I am no longer physically able to.

Is that a can of worms I have just opened?????

PS - Excellent thread!

I agree with you fully that splits would be reduced if......1---the students come first.......2- if it did not appear to be a money only issue.......
the only model for tunning the org SJKJN has ever had was KSN. It is unlikely that he will take a significantly different approach ,,,,assuming he gets the reigns.

[Unknown Entity]

I'm not sure what he can to change things.

SJKJN might only have had KSN as the only model for tunning the WKSA but I'm sure SJKJN can think for himself and will have his own ideas, not to entirely change Kuk Sool but to tweak some things in it. I am not saying that SJKJN can't think for himself, he has always come across as an intelligent person as well as a great martial artist and to think he would carry on doing the same without looking for ways to take kuk sool to a higher level would surprise me.

Sun Tzu said "We shouldn't copy our elders but try to achieve what it was they were seeking"

With regards to who gets the reigns there was an article on Kuk Sa Nim passing it over in the future to SJKJN.

http://www.lowestoftkuksoolwon.co.uk/archives_main.asp?ArticleID=15

[IBelieved]

As is widely known, Suh Sung Jin will become the head of the WKSA. What will he do in that capacity? I don't think even he knows yet, anymore than a President-elect knows what will happen once s/he is in office. Although it will be a time of sadness and transition, I don't think that it will trigger many departures. The order of succession was established a long time ago and those who didn't like it, left a long time ago.

Personally I'd rather focus on the world of possibilities while Kuk Sa Nym is still at the helm... changes to the curriculum, political and operating structures, etc. I'm really hoping to see things like more improvements in instructor training, WKSA financial support to make full-time teaching a viable career choice, expansion of the organization into new geographic regions, and release of previously-unknown (relatively, anyway) techniques and skills. Kuk Sa Nym has not been resting on his laurels... the ranch property at Tomball, the renewed ties with Korea, the recent additions of archery and knife-throwing and the brief public glimpses of the second and third staff and sword forms, these are all GREAT! things. We can only hope for more!

[psbn matt]

you forgot to mention the introduction of mounted archery and mounted sword sparring.
i agree with a lot of what you said ibelived and i look forward to the future. i have also head that it will be both kjn sun jin and kjn alex who will take over wksa together, although i think this is way in the future.

[Unknown Entity]

Yeah have to agree with IBelieved. Kuksanim has done alot especially in the last couple of years, like introducing the new forms etc.

Before I would look forward to the national demos but even more so now as there seems to be more never before seen stuff getting demonstrated.

[Choiyoungwoo]

I'm not sure what he can to change things.

SJKJN might only have had KSN as the only model for tunning the WKSA but I'm sure SJKJN can think for himself and will have his own ideas, not to entirely change Kuk Sool but to tweak some things in it. I am not saying that SJKJN can't think for himself, he has always come across as an intelligent person as well as a great martial artist and to think he would carry on doing the same without looking for ways to take kuk sool to a higher level would surprise me.

Sun Tzu said "We shouldn't copy our elders but try to achieve what it was they were seeking"

With regards to who gets the reigns there was an article on Kuk Sa Nim passing it over in the future to SJKJN.


http://www.lowestoftkuksoolwon.co.uk/archives_main.asp?ArticleID=15
yes that , and other articles exsist that say he will have it, But what about the people above him. CKJN Suh, In Joo and Lee, Byung In, et al. Will they be sub-ordinate to him ???? that is really an interesting scenario.

But not really that important to the average blue belt.

As is widely known, Suh Sung Jin will become the head of the WKSA. What will he do in that capacity? I don't think even he knows yet, anymore than a President-elect knows what will happen once s/he is in office. Although it will be a time of sadness and transition, I don't think that it will trigger many departures. The order of succession was established a long time ago and those who didn't like it, left a long time ago.

Personally I'd rather focus on the world of possibilities while Kuk Sa Nym is still at the helm... changes to the curriculum, political and operating structures, etc. I'm really hoping to see things like more improvements in instructor training, WKSA financial support to make full-time teaching a viable career choice, expansion of the organization into new geographic regions, and release of previously-unknown (relatively, anyway) techniques and skills. Kuk Sa Nym has not been resting on his laurels... the ranch property at Tomball, the renewed ties with Korea, the recent additions of archery and knife-throwing and the brief public glimpses of the second and third staff and sword forms, these are all GREAT! things. We can only hope for more!


While I share you positive and optimistic attitude.. Those who don't like the likley order of succession are still leaving. I can't imagine that KJN simms was overjoyed at the idea of being subordinate to KJNSJ. Just a guess...

It seems that the improved inst training is already starting to occur. and is desperately needed. But there is absolutely no indication that training to make successful school ownership/full-time teaching a viable career choice is in the works. WKSA has always been relatively uninvolved in that aspect(particularly funding it). Which is probably best. Kuk Sa Nim deserves some credit for that. Unfortunately the renewed ties with Korea are likely the leftovers of the KDH/WKSA split. It's good thing and it was way overdue. The result was a void of WKSA leadership in Korea that only CKJN In Joo Suh could fill. Which happens to be a neat way of avoiding the messy issue of heirarchy. He gets Korea, leaving the western world for KJNSJ..

But I'm just speculating. .... any other guesses???

[Unknown Entity]

Does Kuk Sa Nim have any say of what happens in Kuk Sool in Korea or is that CKJN In Joo Suh?

[psbn matt]

when we were in korea it was very clear who was the boss. ckjn in joo suh was clearly no2, with kuk sa nim as the top man (although sa mo nim is the real boss. lol)
ckjn in joo suh looked very well respected by the koreans when i was there and i have no doubt that he will do a great job, but i think kuk sa nim has the last say.

[ember]

But I'm just speculating. .... any other guesses???

There's one in "Eat My Martian Dust":
http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=br_ss_hs/104-1567710-3006366?search-alias=aps&keywords=eat%20my%20martian%20dust

With a very brief synopsis here:
http://www.mariannedyson.com/publications.html

I have to admit that I haven't read it yet, but I've heard a lot about it.

[IBelieved]

you forgot to mention the introduction of mounted archery and mounted sword sparring.
Sorry, I haven't been a WKSA member in good standing since the late 1990's... I nonetheless try to keep apprised of developments and the whereabouts of former colleagues, friends, and students, but hey, I already have one full-time job! :D

Mounted archery and sword...way cool!

[KSWarrior]

Personally, I think if Kuk Sa Nym dies, WKSA as we know it will be finished. I think it will be a great divide between a lot of the masters and several more offspring kuk sool organizations will pop up. We must remember that Kuk Sa Nym built kuk sool originally off of his reputation for being a good fighter and martial artists. People in Korea generally fear/respect the Suh family (the original brothers). I don't think that his sons command that same respect on a world wide level (no disrespect intended . . . they can all beat me up) But I don't think they hold a candle to their father's ability and knowledge. Even when he was their age. What battles has his sons fought, who have they beat, what can they do that we can't get from some other master. They have been brought up under their fathers protection. They better have some deep secrets that they plan on teaching . . .

Personally I think that the business practices of kuk sool will be its downfall, the decreasing quality of the masters being produced and the growing lack of loyalty to and from the organization. No disrespect intended but the current masters are nothing like the original masters. They are only good by today's standards . . . but 20 years ago I find myself asking, would they really be masters.

The new edition of forms is okay but anyone can make that up. All of the forms pretty much have simular movements and content.

I think one of the problems with WKSA is that the pracitioners do not travel out side of kuk sool to learn and view other arts. There are alot of skilled martial artists that have a large range of martial skills. Kuk Sool is a great art but it is only as good as its pracitioners. No one can denied the testing requirements are getting easier, no one fails a test anymore. If you test the required times and your MONEY IS PAID . . . you will get your belt/rank. In fact they should not even call it a test. You can pass or fail a tests . . . it is more of a process. How many kuk sool pracitioners really develop their bodies to the level of the rank they hold and more importantly maintain it? Not many. . . at all. you always have your exceptions but on a whole not many, world wide! :woo: Just because your instructor is better than you are doesn't mean he's good in relationship to other martial artists at his rank level world wide!

Honestly if KSN dies tomorrow . . . KJN Sun Jin Suh may be the official president but Sa Mo Nym and CKJN In Joo Suh will run the organization. and I think all policies and decision will come from them.

I think if he dies WKSA will no longer be a privately owned martial arts. The split between the high ranking masters will cause the creation of numerous organizations. We already have In Sun Seo, Master Timmerman's style, He Young Kimm and several other high ranking masters splitting off now. I think it will get worst once KSN dies. What is KJN Sun Jin and Alex going to teach that we can't get from these other masters? And with growing cost of association fees we all may find ourselves looking for alternatives, especially if they are teaching basicly the same art. That's the beauty and downfall of making someone a master you can never take that title away from them. You can pretty much right your own ticket once you achieved that rank.

[IBelieved]

Interesting speculation. Perhaps true. Speaking personally, I think that far worse things could happen than to have Chohng Kwang Jah Nym Suh In Joo become the head of the organization (in name or in actuality). His knowledge and ability is formidable, and not just in the dojahng.

[Choiyoungwoo]

Personally, I think if Kuk Sa Nym dies, WKSA as we know it will be finished. I think it will be a great divide between a lot of the masters and several more offspring kuk sool organizations will pop up. We must remember that Kuk Sa Nym built kuk sool originally off of his reputation for being a good fighter and martial artists. People in Korea generally fear/respect the Suh family (the original brothers). I don't think that his sons command that same respect on a world wide level (no disrespect intended . . . they can all beat me up) But I don't think they hold a candle to their father's ability and knowledge. Even when he was their age. What battles has his sons fought, who have they beat, what can they do that we can't get from some other master. They have been brought up under their fathers protection. They better have some deep secrets that they plan on teaching . . .

Personally I think that the business practices of kuk sool will be its downfall, the decreasing quality of the masters being produced and the growing lack of loyalty to the organization. No disrespect intended but the current masters are nothing like the original masters. They are only good by today's standards but 20 years ago I find myself asking, would they really be masters. The new edition of forms is okay but anyone can make that up. All of the forms pretty much have simular movements and content. I think one of the problems with WKSA is that the pracitioners do not travel out side of kuk sool to learn and view other arts. There are alot of skill martial artists that have a large range of martial skills. Kuk Sool is a great art but it is only as good as its pracitioners. No one can denied the testing requirements are getting easier, no one fails a test anymore. If you test the required times and your MONEY IS PAID . . . you will get your belt/rank. How many kuk sool pracitioners really develop their bodies to the level of the rank they hold and maintain it? Not many. . . at all. you always have your exceptions but on a whole not many, world wide! :woo:

Honestly if KSN dies tomorrow . . . KJN SJSuh may be the official president but Sa Mo Nym and CKJN Suh will run the organization. and I think all policies and decision will come from them.

I think if he dies kuk sool will no longer be a privately owned martial arts. The split between the high ranking masters will cause the creation of numerous organizations. We already have In Sun Seo, Master Timmerman's style, He Young Kimm and several other high ranking masters splitting off now. I think it will get worst once KSN dies. What is Sun Jin and Alex going to teach that we can't get from these other masters? And with growing cost of association fees we all may find ourselves looking for alternatives, especially if they are teaching basicly the same art. If it looks like a duck it is a duck . . . call it whatever you want. That's the beauty and downfall of making someone a master you can never take that title away from them. You can pretty much right your own ticket once you achieved that rank.

That just about sums it up!!!

[KSW_123]

The politics of kuk sool really don't interest me. I will continue to practice and will follow Sun Jin Suh.

[Choiyoungwoo]

I will continue to practice and will follow Sun Jin Suh.
Could you sum up briefly why you will do that? Just curious.

[KSW_123]

Could you sum up briefly why you will do that? Just curious.
I think he is a great man and a great martial artist.

[Choiyoungwoo]

I think he is a great man and a great martial artist.
Why? What has he done to impress that upon you? Just curious..

[KSW_123]

Why? What has he done to impress that upon you? Just curious..
I'll think I'll leave this subject with what I have already said.