Christian Bashing...

[Wali]

Many of the threads in this part of the forum are very Anti-Christian... The Bible this.. Christ that.. etc...

What do people here think of the other major religions in the world... Judaism, Islam, Hiduism, etc...

[uki]

Many of the threads in this part of the forum are very Anti-Christian... The Bible this.. Christ that.. etc...

What do people here think of the other major religions in the world... Judaism, Islam, Hiduism, etc...

religion is a tool of weak men to sway control over even weaker men. it is nothing more than a system of control based on fear, consequence, and punishment. naturally weak men will do anything to maintain control, even to the extent of killing in the name of a religion. a true person follows the way... the path is free, mysterious, and wonderful. religion's are spiteful, enslaving, and monotonous, it is the truth all dismembered and re-arranged confusingly so that the weak cannot understand or benefit from it. :)

[wrydolphin]

I am a bit more midline-which means that both ends don't like listening to me. While there can be good in organized religion, much like a loaded weapon, the intent is more in the user then the gun.

Our past has made a point of using culture to seperate each other into "us" vrs "them" and religion has the ability to be a huge seperator. Which is unfortunate because they are more similar then they are different really. But as far as Christianity specifically, it saddens me to see my own religion being taken over by people who are dogmatic and fundamentalist and who deny real history and the history of their own religion and religous texts.

But the extreme atheist side is getting as bothersomely tiresome as the extreme fundamental view. They always use the same three arguements over and over.

[Davey Bones]

Many of the threads in this part of the forum are very Anti-Christian... The Bible this.. Christ that.. etc...

What do people here think of the other major religions in the world... Judaism, Islam, Hiduism, etc...

Welcome to the wonderful world of the internet. where every trendy atheist wanna be with a couple of semesters of philosophy claims to be a master of "logic". The sad part is that most of them simply refuse to accept that intelligent, well-rounded people can have faith in a highr power. Instead, as uki managed to say, we are "weak willed" and "afraid".

[Radok]

^yeah, that's pretty much how I view the people here. A few true intellectuals, the rest just jumping on the bandwagon and thinking there the next Aristotle.

[Brother]

religion is a tool of weak men to sway control over even weaker men. it is nothing more than a system of control based on fear, consequence, and punishment. naturally weak men will do anything to maintain control, even to the extent of killing in the name of a religion. a true person follows the way... the path is free, mysterious, and wonderful. religion's are spiteful, enslaving, and monotonous, it is the truth all dismembered and re-arranged confusingly so that the weak cannot understand or benefit from it. :)
Ah Nietzsche, you have told me so much. :D

I am Anti-Religious, and I am not afraid to admit so. However, I don't bash the religion. Just because I do not agree with it doesn't mean I bash it. You have your views and I have mine, but are right, there are many "bashers" out there.

Eastern philosophies (better word than "religion", IMO) I agree with more, but again, not fully.

EDIT:

I love this thread. You guys accuse us of bashing religion, yet do you not see that you bash US for OUR beliefs?

"A few intellectuals..."? Whose opinion is this? Yours? While I do agree that there are many bandwagoners and such, there are others who simply aren't religious because they just AREN'T. I don't claim to be the next Aristotle. I won't bash you, so please don't bash me back.

Believe it or not, I am still open to ideas. I am not afraid to admit that I am young and my parents, who are extremely religious, force me to go to church every Sunday. I sit there, I don't agree with it, but I try to understand and accept others' views.

[TkdWarrior]

Many of the threads in this part of the forum are very Anti-Christian... The Bible this.. Christ that.. etc...
this happens every once in a while here...I am quite used to it... Soon you'll see other religions bashed up...
-TkdWarrior-

[Beowolf]

Hey, i'm anti-religous but I understand religous people. The crazy religous peeps are like that wierd uncle no one talks about. The moderate christians get very little voice. Anti-religous peeps see only the radicals, and bash the hell out of em'. The Moderatly religous need a voice. It would reduce the bashing, I beleive.

[WatchfulAbyss]

The moderate christians get very little voice. Anti-religous peeps see only the radicals, and bash the hell out of em'. The Moderatly religous need a voice. It would reduce the bashing, I beleive.

To be honest, I think that would help alot, atleast for some.......

[Pitfighter]

I don't really care about other religions besides Buddhism. Studied several philosophies, ideologies, and religions and don't agree with many except the philosophies and ideologies I deem compatible with Buddhism. Elements of every religion are complementary but most other well established religions have to many contradictions for me to believe them much. If others find happiness in their faith whether it is religious or ideological or philosophical good for them. But I despise radicals in any belief system who wish to force their beliefs on me such as Osama bin Laden or Pat Robertson.

[Yohan]

Ach

Religion bashing is like style bashing. If you are comfortable with your style, peoples negative comments won't mean much to you.

religion is a tool of weak men to sway control over even weaker men. it is nothing more than a system of control based on fear, consequence, and punishment. naturally weak men will do anything to maintain control, even to the extent of killing in the name of a religion. a true person follows the way... the path is free, mysterious, and wonderful. religion's are spiteful, enslaving, and monotonous, it is the truth all dismembered and re-arranged confusingly so that the weak cannot understand or benefit from it.

This is why you come off as being arrogant.

[yodaofcoolness]

Beowolf what do you mean by, "crazy religious"?

Do you mean 'crazy' like they are doing dangerous things?
do you mean crazy religious like very religious?
or do you mean it like they keep preaching to you and wont leave you the hell alone?

[brahman]

i see religion as something designed to help you come up with philosophies in your own life. many religions have some good ideals about how to live life, what is right and what is wrong. plus there is finding spirituality. most people think its a path to find god, but i think of it more as a way to help yourself feel conected/one with everything, so you can have the feeling that everything is going to be okay in your life.

there is a difference between spirituality and finding god/brahman/whatever. evryone should have some spirituality in there life.

[Yama Tombo]

^yeah, that's pretty much how I view the people here. A few true intellectuals, the rest just jumping on the bandwagon and thinking there the next Aristotle.

From what I understand Aristotle was a Deist, not an atheist.

[yodaofcoolness]

W/E Aristotle was, the point was made.

[EDIT]- GangrelChilde, I don't know what kind of stuff your into, but please change your avatar. Im getting tired of seeing thoes guys kiss.

[Davey Bones]

W/E Aristotle was, the point was made.

[EDIT]- GangrelChilde, I don't know what kind of stuff your into, but please change your avatar. Im getting tired of seeing thoes guys kiss.

Uhm, no. You can put me on ignore, but my avatar stays. It doesn't violate the TOS, so you'll just have to grow up, just like my sig says :) Your profile indocates that you're in your twenties. Get over it. I guarantee if it were two chicks or a Bullshido-esque avatar with asian chicks with big boobs bouncing around, you'd be drooling.

^yeah, that's pretty much how I view the people here. A few true intellectuals, the rest just jumping on the bandwagon and thinking there the next Aristotle.


And sadly, many of the great philosophers... they were religious. Go figure.


this happens every once in a while here...I am quite used to it... Soon you'll see other religions bashed up...
-TkdWarrior-

Actually, we rarely see other religions bashed. I've never seen more than one thread about Islam; never seen negative threads about Buddhism, Judaism, Shinto, animism, reconstructionism, paganism, Wicca, etc. It's pretty much just the Christians who get bashed.

[holyheadjch]

cos its mainly the christians that cant tell the difference between a metaphor and a historical event

[uki]

Ah Nietzsche, you have told me so much. :D

interesting, i never even read any of nietzsche's works. these are just my natural thoughts on religion based one my lifes experience. most of my understanding just comes from simply watching the world unfold around me day after day... if you really think about it, people are only suffering because the are afraid. afraid to die, afraid to get sick, afraid to go broke, afraid to lose family, afraid of what people think, afraid of how they look in the mirror... these people are weak(in the sense of mental will power to change their views of themselves). religions offer a place for all these lost sheep to fit in, except it seems all the religions have some god who will either punish or reward you based on your life... so religion hasn't relieved the suffering of the individual seeking to be liberated, they have only added to the fear. now these people are afraid of being punished by a god. fear is the root here. why is it jesus taught that the kingdom of heaven comes from within? enlightenment cannot be gained by attending church or going to a mosque, or a synaogue(spelling??), enlightenment comes from self-realization... the power to transform your life is within you. the kindom of heaven is within you. this is what is mean't by standing in the light of truth. adam and eve hid after the eating of the fruit. this is the symbolization of how the mind of man is hiding from the presence of the lord walking in the midst of the garden. they were hiding because they were afraid, afraid that god would punish them for disobeying. it is a metaphor to explain the suffering of mankind... we are hiding from the divine presence which is within ourselves. we are still ashamed of who we are... mankind has been hiding from the truth, and others have been preying on the people in the midst of the fray, feeding off of the fear and insecurities that we all face everyday. :)

[Davey Bones]

cos its mainly the christians that cant tell the difference between a metaphor and a historical event

See, and there's the blatant disrespect of that whole "faith" thing.

Oh, yeah, by the way...the entire first half of the Bible, the Old Testament, if you will, is *almost* a word-for-word equivalent of the TORAH. Kosher laws, Leviticus, circumcision... all those stories in the Old Testament are also major parts of the Torah. So are the Jews just as dumb bow, too? Hey, it's also got a lot of similarities to the Koran... why not start slaming the Muslims?

I'll tell you why... it's Politically Correct today to Christian-bash without any common sense whatsoever. But hey, keep bashing the old testament; by doing so you're bashing three religions at once. Nice job!

[wrydolphin]

cos its mainly the christians that cant tell the difference between a metaphor and a historical event

Yeeeah.
Cause all the moderate Christians out there in the two or three largest denominations mean nothing so long as you see a few fundamentalists. You are painting an entire religion based upon four or five people on the internet and the media, cause you know that media is always an entirely accurate portrayal of a phenomenon. I think we have all been able to establish that I am very much a proponant for evolutionary theory, that I believe the Bible is not ment to be taken literally, and that it is historically inaccurate. But because I also identify myself as Anglican, I am a drooling moron?

Sure. What a way to make your case. :rolleyes:

[holyheadjch]

Yeeeah.
Cause all the moderate Christians out there in the two or three largest denominations mean nothing so long as you see a few fundamentalists. You are painting an entire religion based upon four or five people on the internet and the media, cause you know that media is always an entirely accurate portrayal of a phenomenon. I think we have all been able to establish that I am very much a proponant for evolutionary theory, that I believe the Bible is not ment to be taken literally, and that it is historically inaccurate. But because I also identify myself as Anglican, I am a drooling moron?

Sure. What a way to make your case. :rolleyes:
I recognise that you are in the moderate majority, but this thread is about the attitude of people towards the extremes of christianity, most of my family are church going catholics and I would expect them to recognise genesis as a metaphor, my problem is with those who are incapable of this.

[Johnno]

I recognise that you are in the moderate majority, but this thread is about the attitude of people towards the extremes of christianity, most of my family are church going catholics and I would expect them to recognise genesis as a metaphor, my problem is with those who are incapable of this.Then I think you should make it clear that it is only the narrow-minded minority who you are talking about.

Isn't that half the problem, that we tend to lump everyone in together as though they believe exactly the same thing? That applies to Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc. etc. Then we spend half out time saying "no it wasn't you I meant - it was the other ones!"

[holyheadjch]

it works both ways, people lump together the 'athiests' or the 'atheist crusaders' or various other tags for those who would dare question the factual content of a book written thousands of years ago. I am not an atheist, although it has to be said that the discussions I've engaged in on this forum have pushed me significantly towards the atheist side of agnosticism. I have laid out my problems with 'faith' and have received either answers taken straight from the sunday school teachers handbook or no answer at all. My 'disrespect' for faith has developed as a direct consequence of these exchanges. Something one of my university lectures repeatedly emphasised was that if you cant teach a subject to someone with no understanding of that subject, then your own understanding is no better. Based on this I have seen no evidence that anyone on this forum has a reasonable understanding of their own faith, and if you dont understand it, then how can you trust it?

[Davey Bones]

I recognise that you are in the moderate majority, but this thread is about the attitude of people towards the extremes of christianity, most of my family are church going catholics and I would expect them to recognise genesis as a metaphor, my problem is with those who are incapable of this.

No, this thread was started by someone who genuinely wanted to know why there is such a negative attitude on this forum towards Christianity. You're just trying to twist it into a "we hate the fundies" thread, which is not what the original poster intended. And your comments, despite your attempts to say "I'm only bashing the fundies", pretty much cover *all* Christians; you're saying that *any* Christian who accepts *any* Biblical story as true because of their faith falls into the "dumb fundamentalist" category, and that is without a doubt one of the most ignorant and offensive comments I've seen in this thread.

[holyheadjch]

No, this thread was started by someone who genuinely wanted to know why there is such a negative attitude on this forum towards Christianity. You're just trying to twist it into a "we hate the fundies" thread, which is not what the original poster intended. And your comments, despite your attempts to say "I'm only bashing the fundies", pretty much cover *all* Christians; you're saying that *any* Christian who accepts *any* Biblical story as true because of their faith falls into the "dumb fundamentalist" category, and that is without a doubt one of the most ignorant and offensive comments I've seen in this thread.
I dont hate the 'fundies' for a start.

I believe that accepting stories which we can show using science are not factually accurate is foolish and slightly insulting to the original authors. Lets assume god did make himself known to Moses. If you were god, and you were trying to explain the formation of the universe to moses, would you

a) attempt to explain advanced biological and physical concepts to a man who probably couldn't perform basic arithmetic
or b) use an analogy to bypass the complicated scientific theory to convey the essential message that god was trying to pass on???

My main beef is with creationism for this very reason, I think it was wry that made the point earlier that the story was linked to the time in which it was told. I imagine if God made himself known now, he might just say 'I did a kickass job on that big bang business dont ya think bro?"

Could you also point of the thread where I referred to someone as a 'dumb fundamentalist' because your quotation marks suggests I actually said it. I doubt I did, but had I, I would like to apologise to the person I made the remark to.

[Davey Bones]

Could you also point of the thread where I referred to someone as a 'dumb fundamentalist' because your quotation marks suggests I actually said it. I doubt I did, but had I, I would like to apologise to the person I made the remark to.

If you can't see how some of the comments you've made in this and other threads are offensive and condescending, then much like with much like Socrastein, there really isn't much point in explaining it.

[holyheadjch]

any offence that has been taken is a direct result of their inference rather than anything I have attempted to imply.

Exceptions of course are where I've just called someone a moron - then I intend to cause offence.

[Kinjiro Tsukasa]

Exceptions of course are where I've just called someone a moron - then I intend to cause offence.
Please don't do that here -- it's a violation of the MAP Terms of Service. :)

[Socrastein]

I treat all irrational views equally. I will attack any inconsistent view that comes my way, be it theism, mysticism, bad ethics, unsupported metaphysics, contradictory epistemology, fallacious politics, etc.

I am very good at sticking to attacking views and not people. Many people take my attack on their illogical views personally, but there's very little I can do about someone's intellectual insecurity. An open-minded person takes an attack on their views as an oppurtunity to learn and grow, and possibly adopt more rational views. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of open-minded people.

I try not to bash Christianity, I bash bad Christian arguments. There's a big difference, that most fail to see.

Welcome to the wonderful world of the internet. where every trendy atheist wanna be with a couple of semesters of philosophy claims to be a master of "logic". The sad part is that most of them simply refuse to accept that intelligent, well-rounded people can have faith in a highr power.

See, this is the kind of thing I try to avoid. You tend to attack the atheist, not the arguments. You try to attach irrational motives to the atheist, rather than refute their points. You might as well just call us poo-poo heads, because it isn't any less effective.

[uki]

I treat all irrational views equally. I will attack any inconsistent view that comes my way, be it theism, mysticism, bad ethics, unsupported metaphysics, contradictory epistemology, fallacious politics, etc.

I am very good at sticking to attacking views and not people. Many people take my attack on their illogical views personally, but there's very little I can do about someone's intellectual insecurity. An open-minded person takes an attack on their views as an oppurtunity to learn and grow, and possibly adopt more rational views. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of open-minded people.

I try not to bash Christianity, I bash bad Christian arguments. There's a big difference, that most fail to see.



See, this is the kind of thing I try to avoid. You tend to attack the atheist, not the arguments. You try to attach irrational motives to the atheist, rather than refute their points. You might as well just call us poo-poo heads, because it isn't any less effective.

what part of the universe are you from?

[Socrastein]

The Milky Way galaxy.

[TheSanSooStorm]

All the negativety can be true about religion, but religion is just a set of rules base don guilt, punishment and "order." But being a christian doesn`t have to mean this. Mabye its time people start reconizing christianity as a personal relationship with Jesus and the study of his word, as opposed to a socially accepted or in now days world, un-accepted group of people. And there are two types of people in this world, people who are weak and accept it, and those who are weak and lie about it. Pointing the finger at the "weak one" helps one feel more secure about themselves. We all need God because we are weak, now you can spend your whole life mastering it, or your whole life denying it, either way, you and I might be strong in our own compared ratio`s, but alas we are both still weak. Brothers in weakness.

[Mandras]

.
What do people here think of the other major religions in the world... Judaism, Islam, Hiduism, etc...

Why can't people limit themselves to answering Wali's Question?

[tekkengod]

This is why you come off as being arrogant.

Because his opinion is diffrent right? thats some great logic.
SanSoo, the finger isn't pointed as often as the reasoning shot down.
Monotheistic religions such as christianity are designed to appeal to people who swallow beliefs without question, it gives them more than an ample crutch to lean with.

EDIT- To answer his original question as well.

Hinduisim, i don't know much about.
Judisim(sp?) Dosen't seem to bother me too much. they've take more than their share.
Islam. well, they're in the same catagorey as the christians in my opinion.

[Gajah Silat]

I've nothing really against Christianity per se, or indeed religion.

However, what I find extremely irritating is when religion is abused to underpin or justify someones personal bigotry, be it against other religions, race, sexuality, or indeed people who believe in evolution.

This is usualy done by quoting a small section of religious text whilst conveniently overlooking the greater messages of tolerance and respect.

We must also remember that whatever religion we suscribe to has been originaly written down within a historical and cultural context.

The other problem is the blinkered self appointed experts who proclaim their own interpretations must be correct because...... :rolleyes:

Or the 'what God actualy means is....'

Surely this type of arrogance is hubris :confused:

I think on this forum Christians take the brunt of anti-religious sentiment because they simply start more threads with titles like 'Biblical Judgement' etc.

Surely they are not so naive to think such threads will not descend into a Christain/Athiest arguement?

[b2bomber]

I think some of you people daddy just didnt hug enough?

You have obviously let yourself down and dont want to see anyone else happy.

People constantly confuse the actions of a few thinking they are all the role models for religions.

If God spoke to all of you, you know you would suddenly believe everything the Bible says, so your problem isn't believing what the Bible says, but your problems stem from not believing in God.

If people followed the Bible not just said they did, this would be a different world.

People dont put down other religions very much on these threads because of their personal experiences with Christianity. Most peoples experiences with Christianity have nothing to do with Christ.

No one wants to admit they are wrong or could be wrong, so people go into attack mode and get all defensive. On the other hand there are times when we cannot compromise what is right.

Various religions train the student self-disipline. Every one is weak in the sense we suffer emotional trials of self pain: depression from physical and also a diverse contribution of mental images of bad experiences. Death, sickness, general humanity turned sour. Religions are good for some reasons, bad for others, depending on the truth and fiction of the power.

[Topher]

Christianity is the biggest religion, that why it gets the most attention. It doesn’t help when you have nutcases such as Hovind trying to discredit accepted approaches with laughable ‘science.’

Personally, I don’t “hate” religion. I don’t particularly like it, but I don’t hate it. The main issue I have is the consequences of it, what it teaches and the illogical arguments for it. In addition, I’m just not fond of irrational/illogical, close-minded people, who are in many cases, religious, hence it appears I hate religion. For me scepticism and reason are important and these are missing from most religion.

Buddhism on the other hand is an interesting religion/philosophy, as is other eastern philosophies. Or course, there are elements I don’t believe in, but there are ideas I find interesting which can be used. Buddhism and similar religions and philosophies are quite popular because of their pragmatic nature. People usually can adopt these eastern ideas without radically altering their life or existing beliefs which is quite refreshing for most people in regards to religion.

I don’t see the problem in voicing an opinion on religion. After all, it's socially acceptable for people to criticize political beliefs. If your religion cannot stand to criticism then the arguments against are not it's only problems.

[Yohan]

Because his opinion is diffrent right?

No, big boy, it's because he says:

religion is a tool of weak men to sway control over even weaker men.

Which basically says that people who are religious are weak, then he goes on to say:

a true person follows the way... the path is free, mysterious, and wonderful. religion's are spiteful, enslaving, and monotonous, it is the truth all dismembered and re-arranged confusingly so that the weak cannot understand or benefit from it.

Which implies that he is not religious, which implies that he is not weak, which implies that he thinks he is better/stronger then people who are religious, which implies that he thinks that he is better then a majority of people in the world, which implies that he is arrogant. Ouch.

[b2bomber]

HomerJSimpson: what happened to you? Seems every time I go on a religious thread there you are?! Is it Christianity or the Bible or both that have made such an impact on you? You have obviously devoted countless hours posting threads and reading other peoples threads. Most Christians don't put the time in you are doing.

The problem is that poor examples cling to the Christian name and bring down the real warriors of faith. People are the problem, not so much religion. Religions of all kinds seldom endorse the people claiming to be in the right. People try to dismiss this as being judgemental and thinking we know it all, but this is just an excuse to ignor the important things in life. Like love. We see examples of hate all around us and these people are shining examples of Christians? No way.

[BendzR]

...and bring down the real warriors of faith.

You really should avoid using that term. It sounds very terrorist-ish.

[TheSanSooStorm]

TekkenGod Im have trouble understanding your reply to me. You said "SanSoo, the finger isn't pointed as often as the reasoning shot down." Now from my understanding, if someone points the finger, and then their reason for pointing the finger is shot down. In order to shoot it down doesn`t it have to be pointed? If so than how can something be shot down more then it is their in the first place? Perhaps you can help me understand what you are trying to say. I don`t see how more can be deducted then what is there in the first place.

And I don`t thinkhis Warriors comment sounded terrorist at all. Considering that I hear alot of christians use it, and they don`t blow up thousands of innocent people. If a Muslim said something similar to that, I wonder if you`d say the same thing to him, or if everyone rising up against you and calling you Intolerant would detour you from saying it in the first place.

[Yohan]

Considering that I hear alot of christians use it, and they don`t blow up thousands of innocent people.

Well, in a way, they kinda do.

It's called "operation iraqi freedom."

[CKava]

SanSooStorm given the American Wife Swap debacle were that humongous woman blathered on about 'dark siders' and how she was 'a warrior of Christ' I think any term that sounds similiar has been rather tarnished.

IMO Talking about being a spiritual warrior always does sound a little silly but not because of the association to terrorism but simply because the only people who use such descriptions tend to be on the lunatic fringe and it also makes me think that people must view themselves like medieval knights fighting the good fight and I think most of the world has moved past that stage by now.

[uki]

Well, in a way, they kinda do.

It's called "operation iraqi freedom."

highly doubtful any of the us military being a christian entity... they had the jolly roger flying from the tanks when they were storming baghdad back at the beginning. and as far as the government is concered... everyone is a terrorist. everyone is considered a threat. hence all the not so secret spying, tracking cookies, gps chips in your cellphones, cameras everywhere(though i am sure not as bad as london, but getting there), heck you can be thrown in jail for not having i.d. on you. they want to keep track and tag us like cattle. kids can be tried as adults, the justice system is a hypocrisy. in truth, the government wants to eliminate all and any dissent from it's policies... and on a further note, americans can now be shot on american soil if they are suspected of being a terrorist. so watch out guy's cuz they are watching you in the name of god and national security. :Alien:

operation iraqi freedom has become more truthfully operation save you own arse. how unfortunate that our soldiers are put in harms way in the name of god for an ungodly cause...


IMO Talking about being a spiritual warrior always does sound a little silly but not because of the association to terrorism but simply because the only people who use such descriptions tend to be on the lunatic fringe and it also makes me think that people must view themselves like medieval knights fighting the good fight and I think most of the world has moved past that stage by now.

are you sure?? there are more wars and violent acts spiralling outta control across the face of the earth, more so than in any other time in history... you really cannot remain neutral for long anymore... wait til the war comes to your doorstep and then we will truly see how many knights in shining armour there really is. they way of a martial artist is to uphold truth and justice, and sadly as it may be, we shall all again live in the days of the sword. is yours sharp? :)

[JayKayD]

And I don`t thinkhis Warriors comment sounded terrorist at all. Considering that I hear alot of christians use it, and they don`t blow up thousands of innocent people. If a Muslim said something similar to that, I wonder if you`d say the same thing to him, or if everyone rising up against you and calling you Intolerant would detour you from saying it in the first place.

Oooh pfft i cant believe some people are saying only Christians get bashed and people are too PC to insult islam. Just go to the 'Danish Cartoons' thread, or anything posted around the date of a terrorist attack to get some interesting views on Muslims.

Any religion taken too literally or to the extreme is dangerous in my opinion. That goes for Islam and Christianity especially. But, if its applied with common sense and decency then its a force for good.

[TheSanSooStorm]

I pray for the day when people stop thinking of modern times in terms of the middle ages. But I dread the days we stop fighting for good. And if you fight for the true God, for good, if you stand for what is right and do not kill innocent people, then weither you call yourself a warrior, or a Turtle, I regaurd it as a good thing. My comment on his suggesting not using that term was not so much of the argument in general, it was why he felt the need to say it.

[CKava]

the only people who use such descriptions tend to be on the lunatic fringe
you really cannot remain neutral for long anymore... wait til the war comes to your doorstep and then we will truly see how many knights in shining armour there really is.
Game, Set and Match.

P.S. uki the world is not so bad these days go read some history.

[Johnno]

P.S. uki the world is not so bad these days go read some history.That is a matter of opinion. Personally, I'd say the world is in very bad shape right now.

[CKava]

Yes Johnno but what you have to realise is that in every single age people have been thinking that the time they live in is the absolute worst time ever and that quite probably the world would end during their particular century. So far no-one who has made such predictions has been right. The world now is alot less messed up than if you look at medieval Europe but you see waht you want to see I guess.

[Johnno]

Yes Johnno but what you have to realise is that in every single age people have been thinking that the time they live in is the absolute worst time ever and that quite probably the world would end during their particular century. So far no-one who has made such predictions has been right. The world now is alot less messed up than if you look at medieval Europe but you see waht you want to see I guess.I know. Certain strains of Christian zealot have been gleefully predicting armageddon at regular intervals for nearly two thousand years.

Some things have been pretty constant throughout history, like war, famine, disease and poverty. While some parts of the world have greatly reduced all of these (e.g. western Europe) in much of the world they are still a blight.

The difference nowadays is that we have issues such as climate change and global overpopulation which did not exist in years gone by. These are issues of a different magnitude, because they will potentially have a global effect.

(I'm not predicting armageddon, mind. ;) )

[wrydolphin]

On the other side, we don't have to worry about our kids not making it to their first birthday, that the water we are about to drink might kill us, that something will happen to the crops this year and half of everyone we know might starve. If we get sick, we don't have to go to witchdoctors who might poison us in the attempt to heal us.

You keep the good ol' days. Me? I am sticking with abundant food, free public health, and water that doesn't have to be boiled for theirty minutes to be drinkable, thanks. :)

[b2bomber]

Hey brothers: the war using Americans is not a Holy war. It is not in the "name of God" The soldiers in America come from many faiths and even Atheists. Muslim, Jews, Christians, hell probalby a load of devil worshippers too. The war is over money and oil, and lead by a President Americans have only given about 30% approval rating. He was selected, not elected to become president.

People in the military have to do what they are commanded. Many men and women joined wanting to do good in the world, and help other countires and defend their homeland.

Again the actions of a few have lead to sterotyping and biased opinions on the rest of us. Prejudiced lack of understanding has built such a wall between man.

The term warrior is used to personify the struggle with the hardships of life, it's not so much a term describing war like in the news, but a spiritual war. "for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but we fight against principles, darkness in high places"

[Johnno]

On the other side, we don't have to worry about our kids not making it to their first birthday, that the water we are about to drink might kill us, that something will happen to the crops this year and half of everyone we know might starve. If we get sick, we don't have to go to witchdoctors who might poison us in the attempt to heal us.

You keep the good ol' days. Me? I am sticking with abundant food, free public health, and water that doesn't have to be boiled for theirty minutes to be drinkable, thanks. :)Sadly, there are millions of people in the world who face exactly those problems every day.

Were you being deliberately ironic?

[uki]

the problem with this age now ending is different than all the other ages of war... this time the is the power of the atom; the ability to annihilate an entire city is now at the hands of individuals of the human race and the human race has the a history of violent aggression, adding nukes ups the ante. it is ridiculous to think that with all these power hungry governments and people out their will not eventually use the big ones. do you think all these nukes are going to just disappear and leave the planet. someone is bound to hit the panic button any day... and when that happens, this age is done. gone forever into the mists of time. the face of the world will be forever changed... in the twinkling of an eye. look around the world, does it look stable to you? people are rioting over cartoons. america is deluded by greed in it's policy of perpetual war. governments are at each others throats. war and violence are spinning out of control. every race is killing each other everywhere over petty... petty differences. absolutely disgusting. but hey, it's just the way it has to be... then end of the age is just around the corner. i hope everyone is prepared.

[BendzR]

Hmmm did you have a point ? Or did you just want to make everyone think its the end of the world in a matter of days.

People have been rioting over things worse than cartoons, for a long time. Nukes can be - and have been - used. No man will destroy the planet though, that would be suicide (literally).

So, again; did you have a point ? Maybe I missed it :confused:

[CKava]

Well you go sit in your nuclear fallout bunker and I'll continue to believe that the world isn't going to end anytime soon... you have heard about the hysteria during the cold war right?

[uki]

Well you go sit in your nuclear fallout bunker and I'll continue to believe that the world isn't going to end anytime soon... you have heard about the hysteria during the cold war right?

unfortunately the cold war has just switched to a hot war, and it's gonna be one hell of a sight. the ends of ages are such great times to be alive. i am very, very happy to be present for this wonderful time here on the planet. it's so exciting to actually and finally be here. it's like walking through the door at a concert hall to see your favourite band, only this is by far a much more satisfying experience. :D

[PASmith]

I'm game for a pop at the Hindus. What a silly religion. They believe in a god with the head of an Elephant! hahaha. How plainly ridiculous.
Nothing to me seems to point out that religions are made up by man in the place they live than things like that. Why does Ganesh have the head of an Elephant and not the head a Walrus or a Polar Bear? Because those animals don't live in the same place that the people that made up Hinduism live. In the same way that people made gods out of Volcanoes, the sun, the wind etc. They make gods that reflect the lives that they lead and the world they know. Norse gods were like the Norse, greek gods like the greeks, Egyptian gods like the Egyptians. What's the difference between Ganesh (a god people STILL believe in) and Sobek (the crocodile god from Egypt that nobody believes in anymore)? Answer? NOTHING!!
Both made up. Both ridiculous.
The Jews, Muslims and Christians just happen to have made up a god that is harder to disprove and one that sounds marginally less ridiculous than a god with the head of an animal. Although the devil (a “being” many Christians and Muslims believe is real) is just as silly as Sobek or Ganesh.
Humans no longer believe in Odin, Thor or Sobek. It’s only a matter of time before “god” as a concept is consigned to the history books along with the other primitive beliefs.

[wrydolphin]

I am pretty much garuntee that you don't have any of those problems and that was my point.

Universally, the standards of living have generally increased, which does not negate nor ignore those areas in which the standards are still low.

[tekkengod]

TekkenGod Im have trouble understanding your reply to me. You said "SanSoo, the finger isn't pointed as often as the reasoning shot down." Now from my understanding, if someone points the finger, and then their reason for pointing the finger is shot down. In order to shoot it down doesn`t it have to be pointed? If so than how can something be shot down more then it is their in the first place? Perhaps you can help me understand what you are trying to say. I don`t see how more can be deducted then what is there in the first place.

And I don`t thinkhis Warriors comment sounded terrorist at all. Considering that I hear alot of christians use it, and they don`t blow up thousands of innocent people......

Ok, i suppose i could have phrased that better. i was trying to say that the finger pointing and critisizim is well deserved. I don't see how u can argue that.
Christians don't blow people up? wow, that sounds awful uninformed to me. :rolleyes:


No, big boy, it's because he says:

Which basically says that people who are religious are weak, then he goes on to say:

Which implies that he is not religious, which implies that he is not weak, which implies that he thinks he is better/stronger then people who are religious, which implies that he thinks that he is better then a majority of people in the world, which implies that he is arrogant. Ouch.


Right, i've said the same thing, homer, Punisher, Thaibxr and more than a handful of others have said the same. Now if ALL these people are saying that, do you think just maybe theres a hint of truth behind it? I have never down right said "i'm better than you" Now, do i believe my belief system is better and a little more well founded? Yes. But i do not believe myself to be superior to christians. i'll say it again, Monotheistic religions, which are designed in the same manner as christianity where custom made to appeal to people who need help, people who are on the verge of snapping or simply lack self-motivation or purpose. I cannot possibly think of a way to argue against that.

[bassai]

the problem with this age now ending is different than all the other ages of war... this time the is the power of the atom; the ability to annihilate an entire city is now at the hands of individuals of the human race and the human race has the a history of violent aggression, adding nukes ups the ante. it is ridiculous to think that with all these power hungry governments and people out their will not eventually use the big ones. do you think all these nukes are going to just disappear and leave the planet. someone is bound to hit the panic button any day... and when that happens, this age is done. gone forever into the mists of time. the face of the world will be forever changed... in the twinkling of an eye. look around the world, does it look stable to you? people are rioting over cartoons. america is deluded by greed in it's policy of perpetual war. governments are at each others throats. war and violence are spinning out of control. every race is killing each other everywhere over petty... petty differences. absolutely disgusting. but hey, it's just the way it has to be... then end of the age is just around the corner. i hope everyone is prepared.


You're the second person this week to tell me the world is going to end , what do you guys know that the rest of us don't? :confused: :rolleyes:

[wrydolphin]

Man, I didn't get the memo either! :(

And I was going to start school again next year, MAN!

[TheSanSooStorm]

Ok, i suppose i could have phrased that better. i was trying to say that the finger pointing and critisizim is well deserved. I don't see how u can argue that.
Christians don't blow people up? wow, that sounds awful uninformed to me. :rolleyes: .

The majority of churches of christianity do not say its okay to blow thousands of innocent people up. It is not an uninformed comment to me. Infact list five examples of christian extremists blowing up innocent people. And be crafty, try not bringing up the Iraqi war.

The middle ages was along time ago, and they diden`t blow people up. It sounds like your mixing up catholics and Muslims. The difference is that Muslims diden`t evolve, they are still fighting a war for religious supremecy. For instance, Bin Laden and the like felt betrayed by America for aiding there enemies, but this wasn`t the only reason. Hollywood. The shameless profanity that our free speech creates (free speech is good, but still can express what I believe to be bad things, reguardless if its someones right or not.) has angered them. They don`t want their daughters to become Harlots like "the americans." So they breed hatred. They look upon us the infadels as they call us, with eyes of hatred. They don`t want to show us respect, they want to crush our country, and to enslave those of us who follow another religion. Even Atheists.

They want to blow up your family because they don`t follow their religion. And you spend all your time pointing the finger (there that finger is again) at christianity? So be it, but I plan on keeping my eyes on the real enemy. Enemy meaning the ones who want to kill my loved ones.

[CKava]

SanSooStorm that sounded like a speech from George Bush!

[Kinjiro Tsukasa]

The shameless profanity that our free speech creates (free speech is good, but still can express what I believe to be bad things, reguardless if its someones right or not.) has angered them.
Speaking of free speech, today I saw a photo accompanying a news article -- it was of one of the people protesting the publication of those cartoons in the Danish newspaper, and he was holding a sign that said "Freedom of expression is western terrorism". Watch all our freedoms go right down the toilet if that philosophy ever gains a real foothold. :mad:

[BendzR]

Infact list five examples of christian extremists blowing up innocent people. And be crafty, try not bringing up the Iraqi war.


5 Examples of Christians blowing people up, not including the Iraq War...

- Hitler and the Jews.
- Ku Klux Klan (A racist Protestant Christian organization founded during the Reconstruction in the former Confederate States of America)
- James Charles Kopp's shooting of abortion provider Dr. Barnett Slepian.
- The tactics of strategic rape, and abduction and conscription of children by the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda.
- Eric Rudolph engaged in terrorist activities closely associated with Christian terrorism, such as the targeting of abortion clinics and the bombing of a gay nightclubs.

The list doesn't really end there... but you asked for 5, so I won't waste more time than I need.

Before you say "They weren't Christians! They were bad people!"; the Bible defines anyone who accepts Christ - regardless of any actions - as a Christian. All those listed were Bible readers. Actions are not takin into account at all when it comes to the definition.

I am sure there are Muslims that are good people that do not agree with what Osama and his gangs are doing. That doesn't change the fact that by definition those terrorists are still Muslims.

There you go.

[tbubb1]

So there are good and bad on both sides -- whether or not you really got the message or not. I'd argue that those Christians didn't get the memo about loving your neighbor. A main point of the Bible is that God loves both Christians and sinners equally . He loves the person but hates the sin. Christians still sin anyway... I don't know. I still believe in the one people thing.

I definitely wouldn't agree with the Hitler vs. Jews example though.
Hitler was Catholic but was not a practicing catholic. He was very very very into the occult. I saw some show on the history channel about how obsessed the man was with the occult, and how supersititous the commanding generals of the Nazi army were.

[Zamfoo]

Don't forget the Crusades and the everyday pogroms from when the Catholics had the power. And I'm a Catholic. Religions involve power and we all know power corrupts. I view it like this, some people are just generally not good. They'll do evil stuff (I don't mean immoral per se, more like killing and torture etc). Why did Europeans enslave the people of the western hemisphere? For God! No, they wanted gold but God sure makes it sound better. Religion becomes a way to justify it. Since religion almost always involves faith, you can use that to justify your actions. Who's to say what God told you? Plus, you can get a popular sway with it. Why didn't protestants in the reconstruction have jobs? Because catholics and blacks are evil? No, but it's easier than dealing with unemployment and the massive overhaul of an economic system.

Major religions prohibit killing innocents but does that stop anyone from taking 1 passage about the infidel or even something unrelated and using it to kill people? No! Never has, I don't think it will.

[TheSanSooStorm]

Don't forget the Crusades and the everyday pogroms from when the Catholics had the power. And I'm a Catholic. Religions involve power and we all know power corrupts. I view it like this, some people are just generally not good. They'll do evil stuff (I don't mean immoral per se, more like killing and torture etc). Why did Europeans enslave the people of the western hemisphere? For God! No, they wanted gold but God sure makes it sound better. Religion becomes a way to justify it. Since religion almost always involves faith, you can use that to justify your actions. Who's to say what God told you? Plus, you can get a popular sway with it. Why didn't protestants in the reconstruction have jobs? Because catholics and blacks are evil? No, but it's easier than dealing with unemployment and the massive overhaul of an economic system.

Major religions prohibit killing innocents but does that stop anyone from taking 1 passage about the infidel or even something unrelated and using it to kill people? No! Never has, I don't think it will.

Very good post! I am very impressed by your comment, good job.

As for you Bendz, you gave me exactly what I asked for. Thank you. You showed me five examples of modern day terrorists linked ot christianity, good job. But now how many Muslim terrorists are there? Far more then christianity. There ARE extremists on both sides. But its up to us as fellow human beings to respect the idea of balance, and taking what heart and logic tells us as serious as possible. Religion is like government, and just like government its just like a sword. In the right hands its a weapon for good, in the wrong a weapon of bad. It is needed as a means of standards in society, but what christianity really should be about is a personal relationship with Jesus. And if someone is going to attack Christians who have done bad things, they need not forget what other religious fanatics have done. I`m not going to let the KKK ruin my conservative look on imigration, nor wil I let christian murders` ruin the true idea behind christianity. And you shouldn`t either.

[wrydolphin]

There are more Muslim terrorists out there because that is the only style of warfare that they are able to conduct. They cannot ammass an army that can match any of the developed nations, they cannot compete with our resources or man power when it comes down to it. So, they have guerrila style tactics and terrorism. Makes sense when you look at it objectively.

Keep in mind, America has used both in her past when dealing with enemies with overwhelming odds, funding or munitions.

[Knight_Errant]

Speaking of free speech, today I saw a photo accompanying a news article -- it was of one of the people protesting the publication of those cartoons in the Danish newspaper, and he was holding a sign that said "Freedom of expression is western terrorism". Watch all our freedoms go right down the toilet if that philosophy ever gains a real foothold.
Yeah, it's a bit bloody rich, isn't it? It's not like they're just asking us not to say rude things- they're asking our government to go around stopping us from saying rude things!

[Pitfighter]

[EDIT]- GangrelChilde, I don't know what kind of stuff your into, but please change your avatar. Im getting tired of seeing thoes guys kiss.

I agree with yodacoolness, dude change your avatar. HAHAAHa

[bcullen]

Here you go GC I think they'll like this one better :D

[PASmith]

"Infact list five examples of christian extremists blowing up innocent people. And be crafty, try not bringing up the Iraqi war."

Erm....you have heard of Ireland haven't you?
Certain Christian parts of it have been conducting a largely USA backed war of terrorism against Britain you know. The IRA have been known to blow things up on occasion. Innocent people have died more than 5 times.
The fact is is that British would have been well served in bombing Boston as a way of stopping funding to the IRA. In the same way that the USA attacked Irag and Afghanistan as a way of getting to Al Qaeda.

And what about the Basques?...they're catholic you know.

Your request to hear about Christian terrorists shows a complete lack of a world view of terrorism.

[thepunisher]

But the extreme atheist side is getting as bothersomely tiresome as the extreme fundamental view. They always use the same three arguements over and over.

I kind of agree with you there wrydolphin. I'm an atheist myself but I don't really care that much which side is right or which argument is right. Each to their own. I find it very ironic that first it was religion vs religion (as in Christian vs Islam)now its mostly "anti"-religious vs religious.

Like I said before, maybe instead of trying to convince each other which side is right we should just tolerate each in the faith that that person has and simply accept that probably both views are right. Or that there is no right or wrong.....

Christian

[holyheadjch]

tolerance gets you nowhere when it comes to lies being taught in a classroom, if they want to hold their deluded views, then fine, if they want to force those views onto my kid sisters through their school then they better brace themselves cos I'll slap them into the middle of next week.

[thepunisher]

I'll tell you why... it's Politically Correct today to Christian-bash without any common sense whatsoever. But hey, keep bashing the old testament; by doing so you're bashing three religions at once. Nice job!

Bit touchy, aren't we ? How about you accept that not everyone sees your way GangrelChilde ? Not everyone wants to have "faith" in the same thing you do and has possible reasons for it that maybe you don't know about. You are making it sound as if its an absolute sin to attack religion at all. Well, might be in your case but others don't see the same importance in it as you do.

Christian

[Zamfoo]

He's got a point tho, in the US at least. We're so concerned with being politically correct and culturally knowelgdeable 6th graders in some California schools have a unit on Islam. That's it, no other religions are allowed (I guess it's not separation of mosque and state). Christian bashing as a whole has become more accepted recently, just like bashing men. Watch primetime TV sometime, the majority of comedies are stupid men doing stupid things and women going tisk tisk behind them. We're too worried about offending any minority so we make fun of the majority. That doesn't make it right.

Some of the bashing is deserved, I'm not a big fan of creationism myself but as a whole Christians aren't so bad. Nothing inherently violent in their message, Jesus' part at least, just like everybody else.

[Wali]

tolerance gets you nowhere when it comes to lies being taught in a classroom, if they want to hold their deluded views, then fine, if they want to force those views onto my kid sisters through their school then they better brace themselves cos I'll slap them into the middle of next week.
What do you mean by deluded views and lies? Who is "They"?

Please elaborate on your comments.

[thepunisher]

The majority of churches of christianity do not say its okay to blow thousands of innocent people up. It is not an uninformed comment to me. Infact list five examples of christian extremists blowing up innocent people. And be crafty, try not bringing up the Iraqi war.

Okay, lets put it this way: GWB is part of the christian catholic church, probably even gets supported by them with monetary funds, he sees muslims as "terrorists" and he's made sure that his war became a "war of god" by saying he(god) was behind him concerning that decision.


They want to blow up your family because they don`t follow their religion. And you spend all your time pointing the finger (there that finger is again) at christianity? So be it, but I plan on keeping my eyes on the real enemy. Enemy meaning the ones who want to kill my loved ones.

Enemy ? Now, that is a new word to use by someone with Christian faith. I thought these ppl also believe in a god, although he is called allah in their world. And something else, not ALL muslims are indoctrinated to kill europeans or americans. And if you don't believe me, how about you speak to some muslims in this country or even the muslims I know in the post office near me. I don't see them painting a target on my face every time I go there. In fact, they are quite friendly ppl all the time.

Christian

[holyheadjch]

What do you mean by deluded views and lies? Who is "They"?

Please elaborate on your comments.
Belief in Creationism is deluded, belief in Intelligent Design is either delusion or deliberate deception.

They are the christian right who are trying to get this into schools

[holyheadjch]

Okay, lets put it this way: GWB is part of the christian catholic church, probably even gets supported by them with monetary funds, he sees muslims as "terrorists" and he's made sure that his war became a "war of god" by saying he(god) was behind him concerning that decision.


Bush is a catholic? Thats a new one on me. I thought Bush was the first president to get elected without the Catholic vote.

[thepunisher]

Bush is a catholic? Thats a new one on me. I thought Bush was the first president to get elected without the Catholic vote.

Oh, you didn't hear about the experience GWB went through at the age of 40 ? Apparently he had a moment, while he was a recovering alcoholic, where he got in contact with god. Ever since then he believes that without god he would have turned to alcohol again. And yes, he has the support of the fundamentalist Christian community behind him, especially when it came to votes during the first election.

Christian

[Wali]

Belief in Creationism is deluded, belief in Intelligent Design is either delusion or deliberate deception.

They are the christian right who are trying to get this into schools
Does your sister go to a "religious" school? i.e St. <insert name here> school, etc...?

If so, why are you surprised? If not, did anyone bother to find out what curriculum the school was teaching beforehand?

[slipthejab]

Oh, you didn't hear about the experience GWB went through at the age of 40 ? Apparently he had a moment, while he was a recovering alcoholic, where he got in contact with god. Ever since then he believes that without god he would have turned to alcohol again. And yes, he has the support of the fundamentalist Christian community behind him, especially when it came to votes during the first election.

Christian

oh my.
I see we've managed to bend it like Bush in this thread as well. :p

[holyheadjch]

Does your sister go to a "religious" school? i.e St. <insert name here> school, etc...?

If so, why are you surprised? If not, did anyone bother to find out what curriculum the school was teaching beforehand?
My sisters both go to Catholic schools, which both teach Evolution and that Genesis is allegorical

[Wali]

My sisters both go to Catholic schools, which both teach Evolution and that Genesis is allegorical

If they go to Catholic schools, then why be surprised that they could possibly teach Creationism? This is a basic tenet of that faith.

[holyheadjch]

Oh, you didn't hear about the experience GWB went through at the age of 40 ? Apparently he had a moment, while he was a recovering alcoholic, where he got in contact with god. Ever since then he believes that without god he would have turned to alcohol again. And yes, he has the support of the fundamentalist Christian community behind him, especially when it came to votes during the first election.

Christian
Please note that fundamentalist christian does not always equal Catholic, the gap between the Catholic and Protestant Church is huge, but of course you knew that, because you research all your posts so carefully.

[holyheadjch]

If they go to Catholic schools, then why be surprised that they could possibly teach Creationism? This is a basic tenet of that faith.
Because we can show that it isn't what happened, schools are meant to be staffed by academics, and academics should base their opinions on more than just 'faith', sure they can tell them the story.

Beyond that you have to realise that the Catholic Church largely recognises Genesis as being metaphorical, and has publicly denounced Intelligent Design as drivvle

[thepunisher]

Please note that fundamentalist christian does not always equal Catholic, the gap between the Catholic and Protestant Church is huge, but of course you knew that, because you research all your posts so carefully.

Thank you for pointing that out. And just to say, I'm really sure GWB is part of the christian protestant church.......NOT ! And I didn't need to research to know that.

Christian

[CKava]

thepunisher George Bush is not a Catholic... So apparently you do need to do some research as I thought that would be pretty much common knowledge. If George Bush was a Catholic you would hear alot more complaints and conspiracy theories.

If they go to Catholic schools, then why be surprised that they could possibly teach Creationism? This is a basic tenet of that faith.
Did you miss the word 'allegorical' in his post? The Catholic church has basically accepted that the theory of evolution is correct and that the creation story is metaphorical as such 'creationism' i.e. the movement which seeks to present that the earth was created by God not over 50,000 years ago and that evolution is false is not a 'basic tenet of the faith'.

[holyheadjch]

Bush is a methodist from what I've read, so yes he is a member of the protestant church, what the hell is your problem

[KickChick]

oh my.
I see we've managed to bend it like Bush in this thread as well. :p

I could go on and on all day quoting slip and then locking up threads.... its kinda like eating potato chips :p