Posting videos for peer review.

[Joe V.]

Just a quick question to all the Seniors.
Would you object to having your techniques posted on the web for review by the general public and your peer group in the Arts???
Please include your reasoning pro or con.

[KGS BBS]

Well, Sensei Joe, you know where I stand, lol. I did a demo at a big tournament in Boston at the Reggie Lewis Track & Field Center on Kempo Hands- speed striking, (alternate and consecutive striking) punch techniques and grab technique including Korean style kicks (spinning back and jump front ball) plus gun disarming from all angles. It was pretty diversified.

It was at the World Martial Arts Federation (WMAF), a highly respected New England based organization's yearly tournament in the fall of 2003. I wish the hell I filmed it but there were plenty of cameras out there, someone must have it. If you do please contact me at jshuras@hotmail.com and I'll post it. Assisting me as ukes were Sensei Ron Ortla and Sensei John Erickson of Milford Studio of Self Defense. Kudos to Shihan Kathy Shuras for technical assistance.

Pros, I don't know, it was fun and you get to show your brothers and sisters in the arts what you do. The public usually enjoys a good demo too! I think it's good for the arts and free advertising, lol.

Respectfully, Prof. Joe Shuras

[Joe V.]

I am going around the web looking for videos of Kempo/Kenpo. I will post the links in this forum and after viewing the clips. I hope we can have some intelligent conversation on the clips.
Lets start with this one. Go to www.dallaskenpo.com This will bring you to the main site.
Click on News.
To go the picture captioned "Linn-Punch Defense"
For comparisson...
Go to www.kempokarate.com
Click on the "On line Store"
Click on the "Beginning Students on line video"
Scroll down and click on "Shaolin DM 3"
Please pardon me not direct linking. Not all our international Brothers in the Arts may get the link to work.
Please review both links and then we can begin the discussion.
Thanks!

[Joe V.]

Thank you Professor for your post. I agree with your comments. I know you are confident in your practice of the arts. I have seen you move and I greatly respect your abilities as a Martial Artist and your character is above reproach. Professor, I have posted some links that show 3 combination in two forms. The essence of the combination is the same.
However, I see a huge difference in execution of the technique.
Just my opinion, but I think the kempokarate link combination. Is somewhat lacking in focus, I have a hard time seeing how the power is being generated there... Also the speed at which the technique is executed just looks to slow to me.
Just my opinion
JoeV.

[snow_tiger]

http://ffmovies.ign.com/filmforce/video/article/522/522230/napoleon-dynamite-clip3.mov

[KGS BBS]

Hi Sensei Joe! Thank you very much for the kind words. I truly appreciate it.
Yes, Dr. Nick Chamberlain's school, he's the 'real deal'. I can see you are very analytical with an attention to detail and proper body mechcanics. That's a good thing! I know first hand you have a very strong, solid foundation in the arts. I salute your instructor(s). You can't build a house on a weak foundation and it looks like you have built quite a nice house in my estimation, lol.

It's a real eye opener that you have a Chamberlain 'brown' belt in comparison to a 7th degree black belt in a 'related' system, so other than the major difference in rank of the practitioners, you are comparing apples to apples in a sense and that's all I'll say about that.

Dr. Chamberlain has a very strong background in Nick Cerio's Kenpo and Karazenpo Goshinjutsu-Hawaiian Shaolin Kempo Method, so many of his techniques and movements are very familiar and similiar to my own studies since we are a branch from the same tree. I remember seeing Dr. Nick at a Master Bill Chun seminar a few years back in Massachusetts hosted by NCK w/ Hanshi Craig Seavey. The technique shown appears to be a blending of NCK's 'Conquering Shield' with the takedown and follow up of Shaolin Kempo's #3 combination. I like it. Conquering Shield was a variation of Shaolin Kempo's (KGS) #15 combination (this is what Prof. Cerio told me when he taught it to me, I also have the original #15 of SKK).

Conquering Shield can be found in Nick Cerio's Kenpo form called 'Circle of the Leopard', it's at the end of the form. Circle of the Leopard was based on Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu's #2 Kata that is found in Shaolin Kempo Karate. In the the NCK version, after the grab and pull into the right back two knuckle punch to the head in a forward stance, you go with a left cross knife throat as you shift your weight and stance simultaneously with the strike (for power) into a rear slant type stance.

I would rather only go with what I feel, in my opinion, of course, is the positive of the two. Yes, the Chamberlain example shows the NCK and Shaolin Kempo (KGS) flow and continuous motion. The focus is there, you can see nice body alignment and precision. So, you have accuracy, speed, power with an overall flow of movement. What is IMPRESSIVE in the comparison is this is all from an 'Intermediate' student, a BROWN BELT of Dr. Chamberlain's school. It would be interesting to see this Chamberlain brown belt perform the same technique when he is a 7th degree black belt! Then, it truly would be comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Salute to Dr. Nick! Respectfully, Prof. Joe Shuras

[Rebel Wado]

Just a quick question to all the Seniors.
Would you object to having your techniques posted on the web for review by the general public and your peer group in the Arts???
Please include your reasoning pro or con.

Am I a senior? :confused:

Anyway, I look awful on video. I really need to work on that. I'm always talking to the people instead of where the camera is and so the sound sucks, I tend to play the crowd and address questions on the spot instead of sticking to a script or teaching plan... :bang:

As for the question, I wouldn't mind having techniques of mine posted on the web, but I have seen myself on video many times and have to laugh at myself. I look like a bad kung fu theater actor, everything is all choppy, one instant I'm in one place, the next I'm somewhere else. Definitely I've seen video of people that look much smoother than me. Plus I'll demonstrate one technique and then when attacked at full speed, I might do something else, whatever works, I don't think about doing a technique, I just go about in subjugating the enemy... oops, take #2, oops, take #3....take #10. LOL

Seriously though, I think that to do techniques justice on video, things have to be slowed down to half or three-quarters speed so that the full technique can be shown with good timing and flow.

Full speed stuff just doesn't look like what it is like to really be there. The camera misses subtle and quick things at 30 frames per second... IMHO.

[Colin Linz]

I’ve been doing Shorinji Kempo for a while (nearly 18 years), but I’m not senior in grade.

I wouldn’t have any concerns regarding the posting of video clips of myself, but then I don’t have any so it is a mute point. I have participated in demonstrations, most of them only small; although my training partner and I was asked to help out by performing an embu (demonstration of martial techniques, they can be set or developed between individual partners) when 60 budoka from the Tokyo Budokan came out to demonstrate the different Japanese forms of budo a number of years ago.

There are a number of videos of Shorinji Kempo performing embu on the web, I can’t speak for the owners of these clips regarding posting them, but I’m sure they won’t mind you viewing them. What should be acknowledged when viewing these is that there is a structure to them based on developing levels of tension and drama. When done well they look good. Another aspect is one that Rebel Wado touched on. While an embu should be realistic with accuracy, distance and technique there needs to be consideration for the audience and your partner. Often observers have no understanding of martial arts, or at least Shorinji Kempo, so techniques need to be slowed down a little, and the movements made a little larger so they can understand what has happened. Along with this goes slight changes to some techniques; these are mainly nage waza (throwing techniques). While in normal practice it is possible to throw someone as you would realistically, this can be dangerous in the excitement of embu performance. Often a nage will be changed slightly to lessen the possibility of damaging your partner. The technique will fundamentally be the same, it may just focus a little more on balance rather than joint pain. As we usually train and perform embu on wooden surfaces consideration is also given to how you can allow your partner to fall safely.

For a look at some embu performed by some Japanese university students (not senior grades)click here (http://homepage1.nifty.com/shorinji/engindex.htm) and go to the wonderfull world of embu link. There are a couple of videos by senior sensei on the net but I will need to find their web page's.

[Joe V.]

Thank you Professor for your review of the techniques and thank you above all, for your kind words about my Instructors. I bow to you Professor.

I agree with you, Dr. Chamberlain does do an awesome job with his students. His brown belt is well schooled in the basics. As you know, movement like that, requires years of drills and practice.
I saw the intent of the combination on the "higher ranked" video. I have to admit I was a bit embarassed that such a high rank would move like that. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt... He may have been recovering from a VERY serious illness. lol! Or... a paper cut. Hey, those certificates can be dangerous when mishandled! lol!

[Colin Linz]

I will look at the videos mentioned in earlier posts. I don’t know that any observations would be relevant, as I don’t know anything about what the principles and goals are of your techniques. At the moment I’m a little busy with work to spend the time needed to contribute anything meaningful. Hopefully over the weekend I will have more time. In the meantime you could have a look at this site http://www.unix-d.co.jp/md/ the vids are not how to do techniques as such, but rather experimenting with different aspects of techniques. I’m sorry there is no goho techniques shown, just juho. This is a senior kenshi, he has since passed away. He was one of Doshin So’s direct students and has a tremendous reputation in Japan for both his juho and goho skills.

[Joe V.]

RebelWado,
I agree with you, sometimes video can miss the nuances in balance and position that can really make a technique work. However, I think video can reliably be used to judge "soundness of motion". Essentially, check for the basics.
Sir, by the sound of your post, I would say you qualify as a Senior. lol!
Test for Senior Status... If you can remember when Instructors used to turn away prospective students because "they didn't look tough enough"... You are a Senior! lol!
If you can remember when points were awarded in sparring only if you "moved" (Read: "Knock the wind out of", "Bloodied their nose" or KO'ed) your opponent... You are a Senior! lol!

[Joe V.]

For a look at some embu performed by some Japanese university students (not senior grades)click here (http://homepage1.nifty.com/shorinji/engindex.htm) and go to the wonderfull world of embu link. There are a couple of videos by senior sensei on the net but I will need to find their web page's.
Colin,
I went to the site you recommended...
I was impressed with the movement of the demonstrators. It seemed very close to the Aiki Budo techniques I have learned.
All the demonstrators showed excellent focus, balance speed and flow. I see full commitment in every strike and move, the three man fist sets were very well done as well! What an excellent endorsement the demonstrators are of their Instructors! I bow to you Sir!
I hope more people visit your suggested site and post their reviews as well.
Thank you for sharing that link!

[Joe V.]

Snow Tiger,
I could not get the link to work. Is anyone else having trouble opening this link?

[Joe V.]

This link shows the only videos I have ever seen of Professor Chow on the web or anywhere else for that matter.
Go to www.kajukenboinfo.com. Click on the "Prof. Chow Video" link.
Thanks!
JoeV.

[Joe V.]

Colin,,
Thank you Again for the excellent link! The economy and fluidity of motion are very impressive! The last person I saw move like that was Professor Larry Garon. Unfotunately, I have not been able to locate any videos of him on the web. Professor Garon the Founder of Buke Do. He is also a Shihan in Hakkoryu amoung his many advanced titles.
Thank you Colin, for sharing your lineage!
JoeV.

[snow_tiger]

Snow Tiger,
I could not get the link to work. Is anyone else having trouble opening this link?
Sorry, Joe. It was a bad joke-- a clip from Napolean Dynamite of "martial moves". Probably no great loss on your side.

Colin... I liked what I saw on that site. To my untrained eye, a lot of the movements resemble small circle jujitsu? (And I'll take for granted that wasn't a swastika on the uke in video 2? lol)

To speak to the original question of this thread, I think it is possible to judge overall performance via video. I think the video of Mr. Geary leaves a lot to be desired for a 6th dan, and speaks volumes as to why he would threaten civil action against anyone seeing other video technique from him. JMHO

[KGS BBS]

I'm with you on your insight, snow_tiger! :)

[KenpoDavid]

I think the video of Mr. Geary leaves a lot to be desired for a 6th dan, and speaks volumes as to why he would threaten civil action against anyone seeing other video technique from him. JMHO

That video is about 5-6 years old... 3rd at the time I think?

The request to not show it was mostly to protect material held private by Hanshi Lou Angel. if he was embarrassed of what's on the tape, would he have sent it to be evaluated for rank in teh first place? he didn;t know that they wouldn't look at it LOL

I'm trying to get some more recent video, but work, school and a sinus infection are slowing me down.

meanwhile, let's see Prof. Shuras in action!!! or Joe V. c'mon you guys, put em up! :D

[KGS BBS]

Okay, David. Open invitiation-Mr. Geary seems to like to travel. I'm just in the process of moving my school next door to a huge place, 5500 total square feet, 2500 sq. ft. training area, it was a gym before. Lot's of extras, showers, sauna, steam room, etc., got a good deal! I'm psyched. Let's eliminate all the variables of 'the videos are old', slowing down for the camera, bad camera angles, whatever........let's do back to back DEMOS-LIVE for a Grand Opening!!!

Sensei Joe V., I'm sure will want to participate, Joe, your people and instructors' are welcome, GGM. Gascon and entourage will be coming to my area soon, we can count on them. Sigung Brad Namahoe of the KGS BBS does some superb and dramatic breaking!!! I'll get my good friend and instructor Hanshi Craig Seavey and some of his NCK guys and girls. Sounds like a plan to me!

Oh, we'll be waiting for Mr. Geary and we'll be real easy to find. We'll be known as the 'blue man group'! Yes, we'll be the guys in the corner holding our breath waiting for the Nebraska group to show up, lol. Oh and by the way, if I could clarify something. The video in question that Prof. Rash and GGM. Gascon received the letter about was not the same clip on his website that Joe V. posted about. Geary does not want the public to see the video he sent to Mr. Rash and Mr. Gascon for his review for his 6th dan, NOT 3rd dan! it seems pretty recent to me. David, let's not get into the sarcasim again or the thread will only get closed, if that's what you want.

Furthermore, I'll be glad to get together with Joe V. and the boys and make all kinds of film clips for the net, as a matter of fact, I am in the early stages of constructing a website so I could use them for the future site. I'm from the 'hammer and chisel' era or I'd have one already, lol, one of my high ranks is going to do it for me, thank God! However, I would rather "BARGAIN", if Mr. Geary can't make it to my Grand Opening where all demos will be video taped with no foolish legal papers against release, let's do this. We will make some clips for the net providing Professor Geary signs a release to Mr. Rash and Mr. Gascon to post his video wherever they see fit. All in favor reading this say, aye! Aye!!!!!! that's one vote so far!, lol.

[KGS BBS]

Let me state this before you 'call me on it'. I am not going back on what I stated in my first post on this thread. I said it first, so I'll stand by it even though it will screw up my 'bargaining power', lol. There were lots of cameras rolling at the WMAF tournament in Boston at the Reggie Lewis Track & Field Center as I stated before so if anyone does come forward with it, I will have it posted as I said. You have my word on it. Respectfully, Prof. Joe

[dianhsuhe]

This sounds interesting. I say yes!

Cheers everyone,
james

[Joe V.]

I vote Aye!!! As well...
Professor Shuras, I would gladly attend your Grand Opening! I am honored to be invited!
I love live demos! Yes Professor, I will most certainly participate! I am sure I can get Master Mullaney and Sifu Rath to be there as well. I will ask Professors Nohelty and Bryant as well. I will make it a field trip for my guys and gals! I would not miss it for the world!
It would be a mini "Gathering of Eagles" I am 100% in! Let me know if you need any help. I will volunteer my time to help you put this together!
Respectfully,
Sensei Joe.

[meijin10]

Professor Shuras,
I see that you are opening up at a new location, when is the big move?

[Joe V.]

Sorry, Joe. It was a bad joke-- a clip from Napolean Dynamite of "martial moves". Probably no great loss on your side.

Colin... I liked what I saw on that site. To my untrained eye, a lot of the movements resemble small circle jujitsu? (And I'll take for granted that wasn't a swastika on the uke in video 2? lol)

To speak to the original question of this thread, I think it is possible to judge overall performance via video. I think the video of Mr. Geary leaves a lot to be desired for a 6th dan, and speaks volumes as to why he would threaten civil action against anyone seeing other video technique from him. JMHO
Snow Tiger,
I agree with your analysis of the video. Mr. Geary does not move as well as Dr. Chamberlain's Brown Belt in this clip or any other clip I have seen of him. The proof is in the pudding or clip...lol

[Joe V.]

David,
I will be filming some Arnis techniques with in the next week for my students to have as a reference. I will post as soon as I have them in digital format.
I will wait for Mr. Geary to sign his release before I post any Kenpo Karate techniques. lol
I really don't see the point in mentioning Mr. Geary's rank at the time. If he is Dan ranked he should move like a Dan rank. If you compare the movement of both demonstrators you cannot help but draw the conclusion that the Dan rank does not show strength, focus, or speed in the execution of the techinque. I think we have more posts that agree with my analysis.
JoeV.

[KGS BBS]

Thank you for the offer to help! Sounds good to me! Joe.

Gm. Cunningham, glad to hear from you! I actually just made the deal last night. So we are in the early stages of setting up. In the process of moving things, plus we want to set up the place to our liking. You know how it is. Remember the time you were in the area and stopped by but I was closed? Okay, the door you left the note on, facing it, just look over your left shoulder, there was a gym called MidTown Fitness Center (formerly The Active Woman), it's less than a stone's throw away, 13 Jefferson St. Gm. Al C. you know you're always welcomed there! Feel free to drop by to check it out, we'll grab a couple of coffees. It was kind of a last minute thing. The landlord's a real good guy, we went to school together so he treated us right! Just let me know ahead of time so I'll make sure I'm there. Thanks. Joe

Joe V., I just thought of something. In all due respect to David because he probably didn't know but he wrote: "That video is about 5-6 years old... 3rd at the time I think?"

I'm assuming he mean't 3rd dan, correct? Well, I remember back when Mr. Geary was a shodan. He had on his website (I remember, because a lot of people were discussing it over the net and in e-mails, check Bullshido.com), he took the title of 'shihan' and what he did was make up a sign up sheet for students and parents of students. They all signed it, he posted the sign up sheet stating this on his website. I understand he got a lot of flack for this. it is no longer on the website. A short time later, he was promoted, according to his website, from 1st to 5th dan w/the title of shihan, all from Hanshi Lou Angel. He never received promotions for 2nd, 3rd or 4th. Again, the video in question was for 6th dan and his only promotion other than shodan was his 5th from Angel. However, if David feels Mr. Geary's abilities was above reproach for even a sandan then fine that's his opinion. I think you and I and others who have posted here just have a different level of standard in our schools. Everyone is different. Joe S.

[KGS BBS]

Speaking of films, lol, I posted this on Kenponet a few days ago. There are several of us here of the same lineage, even though we don't all get along,lol, but seriously, I thought we would all find this very interesting.

The Legend of Zorro View Thread on Oct 30, 2005 8:28 AM
Just saw the movie last night. Could of swore I saw a fair bit of Kenpo in the movie. But then again Zorro does wear a Black Gi.


This past thread was brought to my attention and some responding thought it may have been EPAK. Antonio Bandaras and his wife were at an event in Providence, Rhode Island several years back attended by the New England founder of Kenpo/Kempo Karate, Senior Grandmaster S. George Pesare. Bandaras and Pesare were introduced and began a conversation only to both their surprise, the following...... In the 60's Mr. Pesare spent some time in Spain and taught the art he learned from GGM. Victor 'Sonny' Gascon, of the Kajukenbo lineage, who founded the art of Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu-Hawaiian Shaolin Kempo Method. One of the students Mr. Pesare had taught later became the instructor of Mr. Bandaras. So, the poster did see Kempo in the movie and as I always have said, all the Hawaiian derived Kenpo/Kempo systems have the same core, the difference is usually in where the emphasis lies.

Respectfully submitted, Professor Joe Shuras, Massachusetts president of GGM. Victor 'Sonny' Gascon's Karazenpo Go Shinjtutsu Black Belt Society

[kempojosh]

Thank you for the offer to help! Sounds good to me! Joe.



He never received promotions for 2nd, 3rd or 4th. Again, the video in question was for 6th dan and his only promotion other than shodan was his 5th from Angel. However, if David feels Mr. Geary's abilities was above reproach for even a sandan then fine that's his opinion. I think you and I and others who have posted here just have a different level of standard in our schools. Everyone is different. Joe S.



Actually, Professor Geary states in chapter 15 of his autobiography that Hanshi Lou Angel promoted him from 1st degree bb to 3rd degree bb. then from 3rd degree bb to 5th degree bb.

just keeping the story straight.

[kempojosh]

I am going around the web looking for videos of Kempo/Kenpo. I will post the links in this forum and after viewing the clips. I hope we can have some intelligent conversation on the clips.
Lets start with this one. Go to www.dallaskenpo.com This will bring you to the main site.
Click on News.
To go the picture captioned "Linn-Punch Defense"
For comparisson...
Go to www.kempokarate.com
Click on the "On line Store"
Click on the "Beginning Students on line video"
Scroll down and click on "Shaolin DM 3"
Please pardon me not direct linking. Not all our international Brothers in the Arts may get the link to work.
Please review both links and then we can begin the discussion.
Thanks!


i watched both videos and there are a few differences. one of the main differences is that on the video the defender hit the attacker in the groin, instead of the rib cage. then the defender did something to the head. the defender was quick. what exactly was he doing?

the speed of the techniques being performed was different. i think that in the linn video the participants were going for actual speed. the professor geary video is a student video. it was made for students to have something to reflect away from the dojo. so i'm sure that's why professor geary was going too fast.

[Pacificshore]

http://www.kenpoparker.net/galery.htm
Take a look at these clips ;)

[KGS BBS]

First of all Josh, correction. I'm talking about Geary's Shaolin Kempo website, you can't compare Chapter 14 and 15 to his other website where he speaks highly of Cerio and Gascon. Maybe in Chapter 15 (his autiobiography came after) he talks about a 3rd dan from Angel but orignally on his Shaolin Kempo website there was no mention of it and you must admit someone like Geary would have most definitely listed it. It was an after thought for C.15, that is obvious. I, too, just wish to set the record straight.


Josh also stated: i watched both videos and there are a few differences. one of the main differences is that on the video the defender hit the attacker in the groin, instead of the rib cage. then the defender did something to the head. the defender was quick. what exactly was he doing?

the speed of the techniques being performed was different. i think that in the linn video the participants were going for actual speed. the professor geary video is a student video. it was made for students to have something to reflect away from the dojo. so i'm sure that's why professor geary was going too fast.

Josh, you're right there, the defender was quick and that is our point, fast and focused. Okay, what he's doing is redirecting the attacker's strike with a circular block and strike to the groin with a grab and pull into a vertical fist to the head. This is 3/4's of Conquering Shield (NCK's version of SKK's #15 comb.) Conquering Shield ends with a left cross knife hand to the thoat-I broke this down and explained it in it's entirely on one of my above posts).

Please Josh, don't make excuses for him on the speed and focus. HE STATED REAL TIME for that technique unless he has altered the audio since, we all heard it! IMO, a guy with an EGO that big is putting his best out when he does a clip. As a matter of fact, a humble guy would put his best out on his website.

[meijin10]

PacificShore,
Now those were excellant vid's

[kempojosh]

Okay, David. Open invitiation-Mr. Geary seems to like to travel. I'm just in the process of moving my school next door to a huge place, 5500 total square feet, 2500 sq. ft. training area, it was a gym before. Lot's of extras, showers, sauna, steam room, etc., got a good deal! I'm psyched. Let's eliminate all the variables of 'the videos are old', slowing down for the camera, bad camera angles, whatever........let's do back to back DEMOS-LIVE for a Grand Opening!!!



Oh, we'll be waiting for Mr. Geary and we'll be real easy to find. We'll be known as the 'blue man group'! Yes, we'll be the guys in the corner holding our breath waiting for the Nebraska group to show up, lol.

.


i'd come, but i wouldn't have much to offer to you grandmasters. i'm a low kyu rank, in kempo and aikido. but even if i did have something to offer you guys i couldn't come due to finances. i don't have the money to throw out to come to the grand opening. are you guys in hawaii or somewhere else? i'd love to see your videos though.

is this little war between you guys and professor geary going to end? or is it going to end on these forums?

[KGS BBS]

I wish I could see the Parker videos but my home computer is not picking them up. I'll have to wait until I go to work.


C'ome Josh & David, no spin, let's call it like it is. This is not about Shuras, Gascon, Rash, Joe V., Cerio, James, Scott or you, yourselves for that matter. It is about the guy who has this on his website:

"Geary is a great martial artist and technician," Hanshi Angel says, "He has a good mind for business and is devoted to the students and the furthering of martial arts."

Geary became a master in the martial arts at age 31 with the rank of Godan (5th degree black belt) and the title of Shihan (Master, Teacher of Teachers). He is one of a select few people in the world to have been tested and promoted to the rank of Rokudan (6th degree black belt) in not one but three styles of martial arts. This sort of feat traditionally takes 20 years of intensive study and practice in one system. He has done it in only 10 and in three styles at age 33! This is an astounding personal achievement. Many martial arts experts become adept at one style. Professor Geary is an expert three times over. Clearly, he dedicates himself to achieving perfection in whatever he does.

Who here believes that b.s.? Gimme a break! This is just a sample, the 'real deals' who go to his website commonly agree and I've heard it said by men and women of many different styles, they need a barth bag as in vomit as in throw up. This is just a sample above, it gets worse if that's possible the more he writes and do you know what? Know one would really care. A while ago he was just a joke to many of us but most didn't go out of their way to bash him publically, some maybe but I know my circle didn't. It's when he didn't get what he wanted and he went after the old respected seniors, those who Geary can't make a pimple on their butts and showed total disrespect for. Go to Hawaii, David, Josh, and ask about Sonny Gas, go right to the source, his home state. Ask Sijo Adriano Emperado, ask icons like Bill Ryusaki and Dan Guzman of Ca., ask former freelance writer for all the major mags and 8th degree Professor of Kajukenbo, John Bishop. Ask, ask, ask.......

Guys, you just can't get that cocky and arrogant in the martial arts world and not expect this type of heat to come down on you. Ali came off as brash and cocky especially when he hit the scene in the 60's. Many hated him. I still remember listening to the Clay-Liston fight on the radio. I lived that era. Looking back now, I think it was a lot of showmanship to promote the fights, similiar to pro wrestling. However, at least Ali, laid it on the line, you can respect that even if you don't like the man. I, personally, like him. Geary is no Ali, LOL, please.....but there is one thing he most definitely is, 'his own worst enemy' and you guys are losing crediability and looking foolish trying to defend someone who is not worth defending. Somehow, I think deep down inside, you have to know that, you have to.

Geary is so full of himself it is pathetic and he obviously cannot back up his claims. If these were the 'Wild West Days' and Geary was making these claims as a 'gunslinger', by now he would have long made his residence on Boot Hill. I bet Hanshi Lou Angel does not want that video made public but it's certainly not about any SECRET techniques. C'ome on, it's the 21st century, 2006, the martial arts world has progressed to the point where the golden age of the 'secret techniques', I hope anyway, is over! No one is buying it! So please, tell him to save it, it's b.s.!

[kempojosh]

Josh, you're right there, the defender was quick and that is our point, fast and focused. Okay, what he's doing is redirecting the attacker's strike with a circular block and strike to the groin with a grab and pull into a vertical fist to the head. This is 3/4's of Conquering Shield (NCK's version of SKK's #15 comb.) Conquering Shield ends with a left cross knife hand to the thoat-I broke this down and explained it in it's entirely on one of my above posts).


that was a cool!



Please Josh, don't make excuses for him on the speed and focus. HE STATED REAL TIME for that technique unless he has altered the audio since, we all heard it! IMO, a guy with an EGO that big is putting his best out when he does a clip. As a matter of fact, a humble guy would put his best out on his website.

i wasn't aware that it professor geary's technique was being performed real time.

[Pacificshore]

http://www.ltatum.com/TipOfTheWeek.html

Here are more Kenpo vids. Albeit many on-line are of the Parker/American Kenpo version, but non-the-less it does highlight good demonstration of tecniques ;)

These have been around the net, and posted on many different forums and such, but if nothing else can give you a sneak preview of what you could potentially learn when searching out any particular art :)

[kempojosh]

I wish I could see the Parker videos but my home computer is not picking them up. I'll have to wait until I go to work.


C'ome Josh & David, no spin, let's call it like it is. This is not about Shuras, Gascon, Rash, Joe V., Cerio, James, Scott or you, yourselves for that matter. It is about the guy who has this on his website:

"Geary is a great martial artist and technician," Hanshi Angel says, "He has a good mind for business and is devoted to the students and the furthering of martial arts."

Geary became a master in the martial arts at age 31 with the rank of Godan (5th degree black belt) and the title of Shihan (Master, Teacher of Teachers). He is one of a select few people in the world to have been tested and promoted to the rank of Rokudan (6th degree black belt) in not one but three styles of martial arts. This sort of feat traditionally takes 20 years of intensive study and practice in one system. He has done it in only 10 and in three styles at age 33! This is an astounding personal achievement. Many martial arts experts become adept at one style. Professor Geary is an expert three times over. Clearly, he dedicates himself to achieving perfection in whatever he does.

Who here believes that b.s.? Gimme a break! This is just a sample, the 'real deals' who go to his website commonly agree and I've heard it said by men and women of many different styles, they need a barth bag as in vomit as in throw up. This is just a sample above, it gets worse if that's possible the more he writes and do you know what? Know one would really care. A while ago he was just a joke to many of us but most didn't go out of their way to bash him publically, some maybe but I know my circle didn't. It's when he didn't get what he wanted and he went after the old respected seniors, those who Geary can't make a pimple on their butts and showed total disrespect for. Go to Hawaii, David, Josh, and ask about Sonny Gas, go right to the source, his home state. Ask Sijo Adriano Emperado, ask icons like Bill Ryusaki and Dan Guzman of Ca., ask former freelance writer for all the major mags and 8th degree Professor of Kajukenbo, John Bishop. Ask, ask, ask.......

Guys, you just can't get that cocky and arrogant in the martial arts world and not expect this type of heat to come down on you. Ali came off as brash and cocky especially when he hit the scene in the 60's. Many hated him. I still remember listening to the Clay-Liston fight on the radio. I lived that era. Looking back now, I think it was a lot of showmanship to promote the fights, similiar to pro wrestling. However, at least Ali, laid it on the line, you can respect that even if you don't like the man. I, personally, like him. Geary is no Ali, LOL, please.....but there is one thing he most definitely is, 'his own worst enemy' and you guys are losing crediability and looking foolish trying to defend someone who is not worth defending. Somehow, I think deep down inside, you have to know that, you have to.

Geary is so full of himself it is pathetic and he obviously cannot back up his claims. If these were the 'Wild West Days' and Geary was making these claims as a 'gunslinger', by now he would have long made his residence on Boot Hill. I bet Hanshi Lou Angel does not want that video made public but it's certainly not about any SECRET techniques. C'ome on, it's the 21st century, 2006, the martial arts world has progressed to the point where the golden age of the 'secret techniques', I hope anyway, is over! No one is buying it! So please, tell him to save it, it's b.s.!


exactly how am I and David losing credibility? I'm not blindly defending Professor Geary. I'm not really trying to defend him. Some of the arguments against him just doesn't add up. And i do call things down the middle.

To clear it up, i do not attend the Professor's school. i attend one of his schools that is ran by Shihan Steiner. I've had very little interaction with the Professor. I've been impressed by Steiner.Very impressed with his martial arts abilities. He was trained by Professor Geary so that's the why I beleive that Professor Geary knows his stuff.

The reason that i beleive Professor Geary knows his stuff 3 times over is because masters have said at least 3 times over that he does know it. 1)Hanshi Angel 2)Sonny Gascon 3)Nick Ceiro 4)Hawaii international Martial ARts asscoiation.

As far as many martial arts masters only mastering one art,why do they only master one art? i'm sure there's different reasons, but before that, let me say this. a master should explore more arts than just one, especially mastering them. it develops the person as a martial artists.

the reasons why masters do not go after other styles? maybe the master doesn't want to start over again. maybe the school does not encourage it. we could go on and on with this. do you agree that it's good to learn and master more that one art?

[Joe V.]

PacificShore,
Thank you for that link to our Spanish Hermanos!
When you first click on the page you will notice it is all in spanish. Do not fear! Scroll down to the videos and click on the first two links available. The first link will bring you a compiliation of a seminar celebrating the AEK's 14th year this past April.

The demonstrators all seemed to be of high caliber. Notice there were some of our KaJuKenBo Brothers there as well! The body mechanics were all there .

Check out the second video as well, performed by a Sandan . You will see two techniques, the first a blue belt technique and the second a purple belt technique. Even when the demonstrator is walking through the techniques you can see the power and flow. There is ample evidence of intent and effectiveness.

The third link is a multiple attacker demo. Nice techniques wonderfully executed!
Esos Espananoles son fieras! "Those Spaniards are fierce"
Thank you for the link! Effectiveness is International!
JoeV

[Joe V.]

i watched both videos and there are a few differences. one of the main differences is that on the video the defender hit the attacker in the groin, instead of the rib cage. then the defender did something to the head. the defender was quick. what exactly was he doing?

the speed of the techniques being performed was different. i think that in the linn video the participants were going for actual speed. the professor geary video is a student video. it was made for students to have something to reflect away from the dojo. so i'm sure that's why professor geary was going too fast.
Josh, you really think Mr. Geary was going to FAST? I've seen glaciers move faster than that. lol
I think you meant slow right???

[kempojosh]

it was a typo. i meant that's why i think he's doing it slow.

[KGS BBS]

Hi Josh, you appear to me to be a good guy, straight forward and sincere and I apologize if I upset you by some of my comments on Mr. Geary. Josh, I don't even like to get involved in the mudslinging. I rarely ever do unless I'm brought into it, either directly or indirectly. Like you, I've simply come forward to defend my lineage as Mass. president of the KGS BBS and on the other end, a former private student and close personal friend of Prof. Cerio. Believe me, I know how you feel and sympathize when those close to you are bashed!

Josh, you asked about when this thing with Geary is going to end. I would like to see it end too. Here's a suggestion. CNG's Shaolin Kempo Karate website is respectfully done to all seniors mentioned. Now, I may not agree with his 'humility' to say the least but that's his own thing. To quote Geary's mentor Hanshi Angel, "You mind your store and I'll mind mine." I'll agree on that! However, his 'other' website is so contradictory. On one site you would never know there was any problem, very respectful with Geary and his seniors BUT on the other, all these unfounded allegations are made and you can clearly see the bad blood. You can't have it both ways. It's either one way or the other or as it is said: "You can't have your cake and eat it to."

Obviously, those who are being slammed on that site have the right to defend themselves and rebut Geary's allegations and so starts this vicious cycle. What would you expect? David said something like that to Mike and I, saying more or less, he (David) wasn't going to put his tail between his legs and run when addressing these issues. I agree with David on that BUT, by the same token, you guys can't expect the Cerio & Gascon supporters to go run and hide either. See what I mean by this vicious cycle? We did not draw first blood. As long as Geary wishes to slander our seniors on his website then I guess this battle will continue. It is up to him, not us. For now, I've got too much to do in moving to my new location so you guys can continue if you want here. I may pop in here and there but if you don't hear from me (I'm not hiding, lol) it's because I'm too busy right now. Good luck in your studies, Take care & be safe, Prof. Joe

[KenpoDavid]

[QUOTE]
Geary became a master in the martial arts at age 31 with the rank of Godan (5th degree black belt) and the title of Shihan (Master, Teacher of Teachers). He is one of a select few people in the world to have been tested and promoted to the rank of Rokudan (6th degree black belt) in not one but three styles of martial arts. This sort of feat traditionally takes 20 years of intensive study and practice in one system
[\QUOTE]

Teacher of Teachers - is a very appropriate title, since by the time he was given that title he had trained 4 people to shodan or higher and all of them had opened schools.

As for progressing too quickly... In 1990 Mike Rash started training in kempo at the USSD. (About the same time as Prof. Geary) 1994 Mike Rash receives his 1st, 1996 2nd, 1997 promoted to 6th dan by Gm. Gascon, by 2005 he is 9th. Do I have thsoe dates wrong? I've had to put that together from myriad sources so I want to be sure it is right. Brad Namhoe went from 1st to 7th in something like 7 years? Is that right?

15 years - 9th degree for Mike Rash
15 years - 7th degree for Chris Geary
7 years - 1st to 7th for Brad Namahoe

7th in Shaolin Kempo, 6th in Karazenpo, 6th in Tenshi Goju. This is not really as much as it seems. For example if it was kempo, jujitsu and aikido... that would really represent learning 3 different arts, and would be as incredible as you are saying it is.

CNG's Shaolin Kempo as a style incorporates much of what Prof. Geary has learned from Hanshi Lou Angel. So much so that Hanshi Angel will cross-rank black-belts CNGSK in Tenshi Goju with very little extra work. For example, my instructor, Shawn Steiner, is a 5th in CNGSK and a 1st in Tenshi Goju, because the kata for CNGSK at that level satisfy Lou Angel's requriements for that rank (probably even higher really). Some kyu ranks in aer also crossed rank by learning Tenshi kata alongside CHGSK. So having a 6th in CNGSK and a 6th in Tenshi Goju is not really having learned 2 complete systems. They overlap. The 6th in KGS is the same. He didn't study Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu specifically, but the rank he already had qualified him for that rank.

This thread is not about videos at all it is about continuing the flame fest over Christopher Geary from that other locked thread. This thread should be locked too, for the same reasons.

[KenpoDavid]

As long as Geary wishes to slander our seniors on his website then I guess this battle will continue.

Take it up with Christopher Geary. You are all really over-reacting to his criticisms of the KGS. Do you think that his article on why he resigned will suffer Mike Rash to lose one penny in membership revenues LOL!!! His KGS Corvette is safe!

You really should get your own website and put whatever you want on it (including your rank certificates and lots of video of yourself so we can all see how it should be done).

[John Bishop]

As for progressing too quickly... In 1990 Mike Rash started training in kempo at the USSD. (About the same time as Prof. Geary) 1994 Mike Rash receives his 1st, 1996 2nd, 1997 promoted to 6th dan by Gm. Gascon, by 2005 he is 9th. Do I have thsoe dates wrong? I've had to put that together from myriad sources so I want to be sure it is right. Brad Namhoe went from 1st to 7th in something like 7 years? Is that right?

15 years - 9th degree for Mike Rash
15 years - 7th degree for Chris Geary
7 years - 1st to 7th for Brad Namahoe



Other then Geary, I'm not exactly sure where your getting these years from?
I'm sure Mike Rash can come on here to speak for himself, but as I recall he's been in the martial arts since the 70's. Black belt in Shorin Ryu in 1980. Trained under Bob White in EPAK in the 80's, and bought a USSD franchise in the 90's, before the Karazenpo organization was reinstituted. I think that's over 30 years of martial arts experience.
When I first met Brad Namahoe 15 years ago, he had just been promoted to 3rd degree black belt in Hawaiian kenpo, by Rudy Orlando. I don't know how long he trained before that. He may have joined the Karazenpo organization 7 years ago, but he was a black belt many years before that.

[Colin Linz]

I am going around the web looking for videos of Kempo/Kenpo. I will post the links in this forum and after viewing the clips. I hope we can have some intelligent conversation on the clips.
Lets start with this one. Go to www.dallaskenpo.com This will bring you to the main site.
Click on News.
To go the picture captioned "Linn-Punch Defense"
For comparisson...
Go to www.kempokarate.com
Click on the "On line Store"
Click on the "Beginning Students on line video"
Scroll down and click on "Shaolin DM 3"
Please pardon me not direct linking. Not all our international Brothers in the Arts may get the link to work.
Please review both links and then we can begin the discussion.
Thanks!
One version seemed to be very casual. He appeared to be just going through the motions, I can’t comment on the technical aspect though. I sometimes do this when I’m trying to get my head around a technique. Why it appears like this on this site I could only speculate on.

[KGS BBS]

I had to pop in when I heard Sigung John Bishop posted and let me make this clear, none of us contacted him about this at all. I did mention his name in an above post so I assume he saw it and decided to post on his own. Thank you, John, you are right, Prof. Mike Rash started when I did in 1973, so he has 33 years in this year. David never compares apples with apples and on this one, he only takes into account Mike's last 16 years and leaves out the prior 17 years, Geary's total time is 15 years and the vast majority with no instructor at all. Another 'spin'!!! Same with Sigung Brad Namahoe (take it up with him David, lol), Brad's total time in was not taken into account when you 'fudged' those figures. Remember, Kenpo/Kempo/Kajukenbo are all eclectic blends and in American karate it is accepted by the vast majority to cross train and get credit for such training when promotions come up. I've even seen it done in some traditional Okinawan systems.

Here's another point, you either miss or purposely avoid. It is not Mike Rash or Brad Namahoe that boast about how great they are, what oustanding ability they have and all the other happy horse sh_t on Geary's sites. Geary states he's the greatest so I'd say either put up or shut up. A little humility goes along way. If he could harness that super-over inflated ego, you wouldn't be here defending him! Oh yeah, Mike Rash makes a fortune on KGS BBS, you are totally out of line or you're just running out of things to say. Yearly dues were $26 since it's inception and just went up to $36. You claimed Geary paid out thousands of dollars for the KGS BBS visit. Rash and Namahoe paid their own way, Geary paid for Gascon's ticket but only to and from California and Rash paid for back and forth to Hawaii. Geary then put them up in a cheap hotel where he got a discount for the rooms. Rash was out $1700 and that's deducting the lousy $20 a head that was charged for the seminar. I have never paid a cent outside my yearly dues. How much has Geary paid Angel? lol.

Man, you got a lot of balls making a comment about Mike's corvette. Don't forget, either, Mike has a full time job!!! Just look at the lavish school or I should say his personal corporate office and let's not forget his vehicle, you know the one with "FOUNDER" on the plate,lol, that the Reverand Christopher "Jim Jones" Geary has from the money he soaks from all you suckers he's got in contracts that bind you and can't get out of! YOU DON'T THINK WE KNOW! Have another glass of KOOL AID!

Lastly, Josh stated: The reason that i beleive Professor Geary knows his stuff 3 times over is because masters have said at least 3 times over that he does know it. 1)Hanshi Angel 2)Sonny Gascon 3)Nick Ceiro 4)Hawaii international Martial ARts asscoiation.

I say: 1) you're going to have to ask Hanshi Angel that one! 2) how many times do we have to say that Sonny Gas and Mike Rash did what a lot of seniors do but i'll bet they will never do it again. They saw Geary's 6th dan certificate from Lou Angel and recognized Geary on the recommendation of Angel. Sometimes I would help Prof. Cerio with applications for approval of rank recognition within his organization. if Cerio knew the instructor's name on the certificate and the certificate was legit, he simply awarded a dan rank cert. in NCIMAA, ONLY it would say on the recommendation of: Master John Smith. Ths is done all the time. Yes, Geary sent a tape in, Gascon and Rash did not review it prior to the recognition because of Angel's recomendation, a common courtesy and now they know, a mistake! GGM. Gascon knows he made a big mistake, what more do you want from him?

I'll tell you something else too. After he left Geary's school, he was very upset because after seeing Geary move and talking with him, he realized it was a mistake but one, at the time, he already committed himself too. His comment to Rash on the way home was: "Another ........". If Mike wants to quote Mr. Gascon. I'll let him, lol.

Okay where are we?, Yes, #) Nick Cerio-Why he did it, who knows? because I don't. I do know he regretted it, called it an embarrassing mistake and intentionally did not put him on the family tree, just check the NCK website. That part is fact. Why he did it in the first place, no clue BUT he never made a mistake like that again. So, it must have made quite an impression on him.

4) The Hawaii Martial Arts International Society also promoted Geary sight unseen on the recommendation of hs promotion to 7th dan by Lou Angel. Like I said, a lot do that.

So, all I can say is that ranking is subjective as I said before and evidentally Hanshi Angel has different standards then we do unless there is something I don't know and it sure is hell isn't Geary's abilities.

See ya, gotta get to the new school and get started in the transition. Thanks again, Sigung John Bishop for posting, that's the only reason why I just popped in right now. Take care & be safe, Joe

[snow_tiger]

I'm not going to get into politics, mudslinging, or personal vendettas, nor should my opinion be construed as any more important than just the feelings of a dedicated kempoist who takes much pride in the art and is pained by the actions of any person whose comments or actions damage the image of our fine art. So, please bear in mind that the following musings are in no way personal, but are in fact my feelings on the subject in general. My hope in posting them are that some light may be shed on this particular subject by one outside of the emotions and "pain" of those involved. Maybe it'll shed some light on why any of us would even expend the energy of harboring an opinion on the Geary subject. Take that for what it's worth...

I have worked hard for the various rankings I have earned in my chosen arts. I would hope that this work would be recognised and respected. A black belt (and moreso higher dans) should be respected. Our wonderful art should be respected, since (IMHO) it is one of the better fighting systems in the MA community.

Anyone who forgoes much of the work for their achievements and gains rank through dishonesty and deceit (much less writes memoires "bragging" about the deceit) has damaged Kempo as a whole. The more "paper-dans" we get in Kempo, the more chances of Kempo becoming the next TKD-type disrespected art-- the more chance that my hard-earned rank becomes viewed as a supersized paper value-meal from a drive-through system. Period. Any person who does this disrespects us all as kemposists, and disrespects Kempo.

Further (again, in MHO), the person who selects for themselves the position of Shihan in our art (if one indeed can or should select this for themselves) subjects themselves to a certain standard of conduct, to be judged against the standards they put upon their students. Some of these moral standards would be honesty, integrity, etc... Specifically, this standard would include a lack of need for restraining orders by students, and the self control to not attack persons or property after rebuffs. These actions also hurt the external perceptions of our art.

To speak specifically to my personal disappointment I'll relay the following, quoted from bullshido, all in response to Shihon Geary. Note that I'll not quote personal attacks and am posting just the some that denote the image damage done to Kem(n)po as a style.

"The More I read, The more I am loosing respect for Kempo."

"Non-accredited degrees for everybody! Wooo!

Bullshido should make up a fictional ken/mpo "grand master" (pick a green belt in some style or other, teach a bunch of extra kata and pay for his car rental costs) and see how many belt ranks he can rack up from the back-scratching fraternity."

"Now K-nerd, you just showed up to brag about how he's been promoted to 7th dan. Guess what, I can open a phone book in almost any American community and find people with 7th dans in Kempo or TKD, so big deal."

Geary is by no means the only person adding to this steriotype (just search ebay for pay-for-rank Kenpo), but that does not lessen his responsibility to the art, nor would it excuse his actions if indeed true.

With all of that said, I'll go this far: I've viewed what video he has posted, and the photo tech descriptions of his system. I will just say that I would hope that Kempo in general not be judged by them.

Good day all, and God bless.

[Colin Linz]

This link shows the only videos I have ever seen of Professor Chow on the web or anywhere else for that matter.
Go to www.kajukenboinfo.com. Click on the "Prof. Chow Video" link.
Thanks!
JoeV.
I couldn’t get this one to run. I have heard of him though.

[Colin Linz]

http://www.kenpoparker.net/galery.htm
Take a look at these clips ;)
I'm still waiting on the larger files to download. The one file I have veiwed Was good. The demonstration of technique is similar to us. We will usualy demonstarate a technique at least 3 times, once slowly so students can see what is happening, again slowly so they can see the footwork and body positioning and then normal speed so they can appretiate the technique.

[Colin Linz]

I found some Shorinji Kempo Clips that you may be interested in watching, as they are from New York. They are a little better than the ones I previously posted, not so much for the technical side, but as an indication of different aspects of Shorinji Kempo. There is some basic kihon, where you may notice the body dodging incorporated into the techniques. This is because we are defensive only and are responding to an assumed attack. There is also a self-defence demonstration where you can see the bogu we wear for randori (various forms of sparring), this allows the use of forceful strikes. These clips also feature full paired embu’s, unlike the earlier ones that featured only sections. This form of embu is an expression of the individual’s interpretation of Shorinji Kempo; they are designed by the participants and discarded at will. They are also a form of gyo, some people translate this as prayer, but it is more to do with an activity designed to help reach enlightenment or if you like develop your character and understanding of the world. The tempo is usually designed to build levels of drama and is attuned to the Japanese sense of aesthetics and may leave some viewers wondering what all this stoping and repositioning is about. They are not meant to look like a fight, but demonstrate how the techniques work together in a more realistic scenario than just the paired practice or demonstration of one technique.

You will need real player to run these clips. videos here (http://www.nyshorinji.org/video.html)

[Colin Linz]

That’s about all I have time for now. I have an old Ducati that needs some tender loving attention. If you need a break from all this violence and destruction, and into bikes you c an view some pics of it with these links. I have spent my holidays doing a complete rebuild of the engine, frame and front end. My son did the paint work, it is black with a red pearl.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v717/Colin_Linz/rightside.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v717/Colin_Linz/leftside.jpg

[snow_tiger]

That's a bike to be proud of Colin.

[dianhsuhe]

"I couldn’t get this one to run. I have heard of him though."

Mr Linz- Do you mean Professor Chow?

[Colin Linz]

"I couldn’t get this one to run. I have heard of him though."

Mr Linz- Do you mean Professor Chow?
Yes, I have heard of him. My background is not with American styles of kenpo and I have had little exposure to them in Australia; but I have seen his name mentioned in various postings on the net.

[Colin Linz]

That's a bike to be proud of Colin.
Thanks, I just need to balance and tune the carburettors and it will be ready for the road. I came off it a few months ago while ridding down a local mountain, hence the re-paint. Thankfully all those years of ukemi practice on wooden and cement floors saved me from damaging myself.

[snow_tiger]

Hey, I'll tell the wife so she doesn't worry so much about me downing my bike!

"Honey, I'll just break-fall and it'll be alright!"

lol

[Colin Linz]

My leathers, body armour, helmet, gloves and boots probably played some small part in it too.

[snow_tiger]

Smart. I figure kevlar is my friend on a bike.

Glad you're OK.

[Colin Linz]

Colin... I liked what I saw on that site. To my untrained eye, a lot of the movements resemble small circle jujitsu? (And I'll take for granted that wasn't a swastika on the uke in video 2? lol)
I meant to address this in my post. The symbol is not related to the nazi movement, they in fact perverted its meaning. It is a very old Sanskrit symbol that predates Buddhism, but has come to represent Zen Buddhism over the last few centuries. If you look at a Japanese map you will see it used to denote where temples are. It can be viewed both in its omote or forward version or ura its back version. Both versions represent different aspects. This is an article from our Swedish federation site.
click here (http://www.shorinji-kempo.org/articles/manji/manji_en.html)

There are videos of various graded students on this site too.

Manji used to be our symbol, although many western countries used a different one for obvious reasons. We now have a universal symbol for everyone; it too is based on old Buddhist symbols. It looks like this.
click here (http://www.shorinjikempo-chizai.or.jp/images/top_e_03.jpg)

[kempojosh]

I'm not going to get into politics, mudslinging, or personal vendettas, nor should my opinion be construed as any more important than just the feelings of a dedicated kempoist who takes much pride in the art and is pained by the actions of any person whose comments or actions damage the image of our fine art. So, please bear in mind that the following musings are in no way personal, but are in fact my feelings on the subject in general. My hope in posting them are that some light may be shed on this particular subject by one outside of the emotions and "pain" of those involved. Maybe it'll shed some light on why any of us would even expend the energy of harboring an opinion on the Geary subject. Take that for what it's worth...

I have worked hard for the various rankings I have earned in my chosen arts. I would hope that this work would be recognised and respected. A black belt (and moreso higher dans) should be respected. Our wonderful art should be respected, since (IMHO) it is one of the better fighting systems in the MA community.

Anyone who forgoes much of the work for their achievements and gains rank through dishonesty and deceit (much less writes memoires "bragging" about the deceit) has damaged Kempo as a whole. The more "paper-dans" we get in Kempo, the more chances of Kempo becoming the next TKD-type disrespected art-- the more chance that my hard-earned rank becomes viewed as a supersized paper value-meal from a drive-through system. Period. Any person who does this disrespects us all as kemposists, and disrespects Kempo.

Further (again, in MHO), the person who selects for themselves the position of Shihan in our art (if one indeed can or should select this for themselves) subjects themselves to a certain standard of conduct, to be judged against the standards they put upon their students. Some of these moral standards would be honesty, integrity, etc... Specifically, this standard would include a lack of need for restraining orders by students, and the self control to not attack persons or property after rebuffs. These actions also hurt the external perceptions of our art.

To speak specifically to my personal disappointment I'll relay the following, quoted from bullshido, all in response to Shihon Geary. Note that I'll not quote personal attacks and am posting just the some that denote the image damage done to Kem(n)po as a style.

"The More I read, The more I am loosing respect for Kempo."

"Non-accredited degrees for everybody! Wooo!

Bullshido should make up a fictional ken/mpo "grand master" (pick a green belt in some style or other, teach a bunch of extra kata and pay for his car rental costs) and see how many belt ranks he can rack up from the back-scratching fraternity."

"Now K-nerd, you just showed up to brag about how he's been promoted to 7th dan. Guess what, I can open a phone book in almost any American community and find people with 7th dans in Kempo or TKD, so big deal."

Geary is by no means the only person adding to this steriotype (just search ebay for pay-for-rank Kenpo), but that does not lessen his responsibility to the art, nor would it excuse his actions if indeed true.

With all of that said, I'll go this far: I've viewed what video he has posted, and the photo tech descriptions of his system. I will just say that I would hope that Kempo in general not be judged by them.

Good day all, and God bless.


snow tiger, thanks for the input. but who is this k-nerd you speak of?

furthermore, did you miss the part that these grandmasters thought christopher geary deserved the recognition that they gave him? that is part of the promotion process.

i have to go back to work, but i have other questions about your comments.

thanks for your time.

[snow_tiger]

Hey josh. I probably should have used quote tags instead of ""s. Those were quotes from another site in regard to our art as reflected by Mr. Geary.

No. I didn't miss the promotion process, and I guess I understand your point. But please understand that I am fully familliar with belt progression and rankings. I'll try not to sound like I am crucifying Mr. Geary, as I have no dog in the fight. But I will use Mr. Geary's own words to give you an idea of why some in the MA community may take humbrage to Mr. Geary's understanding of progression.

http://www.christophergeary.com/autobiography-6.php


I remember Professor Cerio asking me how long I had been involved in the martial arts. I got the impression that he would only consider allowing me to test for black belt if I had studied for four or five years, but I didn't think it was fair to make someone wait for a set period of time if they had the ability to move up. I have always felt that promotions should be based on ability, not putting in time. (To this day, as an instructor, I promote people on the basis of ability instead of following a set schedule.) I knew he wouldn't even look at my videotape if I told him that I had been studying for eighteen months, so I said I had been studying for four years. I made the videotape and sent it off to him. He told me that I wasn't ready to be a black belt yet. He said my techniques looked good, but I needed to have more power in my techniques. He gave me some pointers, and he said that he was going to promote me to the rank of brown belt (first kyu). That is the rank just under black. I felt disappointed at first, but soon I realized that it was a great accomplishment to jump from green-brown (fourth kyu) to brown (first kyu). I had been studying under an instructor for only about eighteen months or so, and it was impressive to get that kind of rank from someone like Professor Cerio. I had been able to bypass the usual layers of instructors and to go directly to Professor Cerio to find out what I was worth.


I don't know. His technique then may have been incredible! But the above is no way to garner respect from an informed MA practitioner. In my opinion, the above statement actually shows a lack of understanding of MA progression. There are very solid reasons why most masters demand time and perserverence for the recognition of a Black Belt. A black belt says far more than technique, and I would hope that someone in the position of creating black belts would also recognize this. And to imply that he progressed to it is a misstatement, since he never gave the ranking master an opportunity to make a truthfully informed decision to do so (not to mention that he skipped several steps to bb via the dishonesty). My feelings are that the work and process make the practitioner, and the dan rankings are a symbol of the result and not the result itself. Too many people forget that.

I'm not trying to break his balls, and have no stake in the drama. I promise. I wish him the best.

I realize that this is absolutely none of my business, so have kept most of my most critical impressions to myself. I merely wanted to offer an idea as to why some in the kempo community might form such polar opinions on the matter, and offer such an emotional response to the founder of your system.

I hope that I have not offended, as that was in no way my intention. I'm not here to stir the hive, and have written more into the discussion than I have a right to. Take care, God bless, and enjoy your "process".

[Joe V.]

David,
I started this thread as an open forum to:
Discuss the values of videos as an analytical tool in evaluating Martial Artists.
Compare and evaluate techniques from various Martial Arts.
You are the one who brought in the mud and showed your ignorance regarding TRUE MARTIAL ARTISTS and their background. This is typical of someone who has received sub-standard training in Honor, Sincerity, Character and Humility. This is not all your fault, you are simply ignorant of how important those words are to people who dedicate themselves to teaching the Martial Arts and preserving the traditions passed down to us through the generations.
As for flaming Mr Geary... We posted the videos we have available on the web.
Most posts have agreed that Mr. Geary moves like (IMHO) a "Flounder". LOL!
I don't care how many certificates he has been GIVEN. He still moves like a (IMHO) a Flounder.
If you have some other videos to present of how Mr. Geary moves... Show us the links and we can bring it up again for discussion.

snow tiger, I agree with you 100% If we allow someone to cheapen our accomplishments by claiming high rank and skill by taking the easy path.
It does go against what Kenpo/Kempo stands for, or any other Martial Art for that matter...

Colin,
"COOL BIKE!" A quote from my 16 year old son! :D

[kempojosh]

Hey josh. I probably should have used quote tags instead of ""s. Those were quotes from another site in regard to our art as reflected by Mr. Geary.

No. I didn't miss the promotion process, and I guess I understand your point. But please understand that I am fully familliar with belt progression and rankings. I'll try not to sound like I am crucifying Mr. Geary, as I have no dog in the fight. But I will use Mr. Geary's own words to give you an idea of why some in the MA community may take humbrage to Mr. Geary's understanding of progression.

http://www.christophergeary.com/autobiography-6.php



I don't know. His technique then may have been incredible! But the above is no way to garner respect from an informed MA practitioner. In my opinion, the above statement actually shows a lack of understanding of MA progression. There are very solid reasons why most masters demand time and perserverence for the recognition of a Black Belt. A black belt says far more than technique, and I would hope that someone in the position of creating black belts would also recognize this. And to imply that he progressed to it is a misstatement, since he never gave the ranking master an opportunity to make a truthfully informed decision to do so (not to mention that he skipped several steps to bb via the dishonesty). My feelings are that the work and process make the practitioner, and the dan rankings are a symbol of the result and not the result itself. Too many people forget that.

I'm not trying to break his balls, and have no stake in the drama. I promise. I wish him the best.

I realize that this is absolutely none of my business, so have kept most of my most critical impressions to myself. I merely wanted to offer an idea as to why some in the kempo community might form such polar opinions on the matter, and offer such an emotional response to the founder of your system.

I hope that I have not offended, as that was in no way my intention. I'm not here to stir the hive, and have written more into the discussion than I have a right to. Take care, God bless, and enjoy your "process".


no offenses taken snow tiger. i'm not just speaking up for professor geary because i attend one of his schools. it does seem like alot of the arguments against geary disregard masters of the arts approving of him. it would be a completely different story if chritopher geary had created his own style and claimed to be 10th dan without any training/promotion from any other masters. lying to professor ceiro, that shouldn't have been done. but i think geary has learned his lesson on that one.

yeah, it traditonally does take someone longer to gain a black belt or bb promotions. but alot of people only practice so much. if geary did practice alot and got good at his techniques in a short amount of time, that might be why people have been impressed with his abilities.

thanks for your comment and time.

[KGS BBS]

snow_tiger, you said it all in one post and sir, don't let Josh fool you, he is k-nerd on Bullshido. C'ome on, Josh, you gave it away on Bullshido, see what I mean about crediability. You just lost it! You're denying this now. You just posted to snow_tiger:
snow tiger, thanks for the input. but who is this k-nerd you speak of?


Sorry Josh but now the BULLSHIDO RED FLAG goes up on you here at MAP. You just lied and you know it. Something you learned from CNG? Now, you can 'spin it' or 'admit it' BUT we all know and by the way, I just registered at BULLSHIDO. I thought you were above that!!!! Please don't b.s. me either, cops hate it when someone b.s.'s them. just ask Geary & Steiner, they have experience with the system from what I read, lol.

[KGS BBS]

Guys, I just copied and pasted this excerpt from Bullshido by k-nerd:
"And if you are wondering, YES, I am a student within the Geary organization, but he is not my instructor."

If you look back to the other thread that was closed: Kenpo seminar a success, you will see he says essentially the same thing to me. There's more too but that should be enough. If in doubt just go to Bullshido.com. Joe

[Colin Linz]

Anyway, getting back to the peer review of techniques; what do you guys think of this guy (http://n2graphics.com/2005/11/17/charlie-the-monkey-kicks-ass/) ?

[Aegis]

Guys, less of the mudslinging, more discussion of videos please. There's nothing wrong with opening up another thread to carry on the more political arguments, but please don't spoil other topics by forcing mods to close threads that have a genuinely good purpose.

[Saz]

Well done for ruining a potientially good thread.

We've had three complaints about the mudslinging and policitical axe grinding thats going on in here.

This is exactly what got the Choi Kwang Do forum shut down. If this is all you have to post on, you're more than welcome to go elsewhere, but I'm fed up of it here.