Ju Jitsu Korean in origin?

[crovax612]

My friend and I visited a Judo/JU Jitsu class today in koreatown. and one of the instrcuters (who was Korean) mentioned that Ju Jitsu was originaly a Korean martial art.


I told her that I hadn't read anything on Ju Jitsu that mentioned it as a Korean martial art, just a Japanese form of unarmed combat. She told me that the Japanese would have battles with the Koreans and eventualy adapted the art form.

Anyways, doesn't anyone know if this is valid? I was kinda suspiscious of it being another one of those Japanese/Korean rivalries.

[Kwan Jang]

-There is historical evidence that JJ had earlier Korean INFLUENCE. Also that the hwarang were a major influence on the bushi (samurai). There is NO doubt that the JJ had a MONUMENTAL influence on Hapkido and that Shotokan likewise had such an influence on TKD. China, Korea, and Japan have over the centuries (including this one), all been in conflict. They have all had cultural influence on each other no matter how hard each tries to deny it. I used to joke that the Chinese hate the Japanese; the Japanese hate the Koreans; and the Koreans hate everybody.
-I really never understood the hostility (and in some ways I hope I never fully do) until my friend and former training partner, who was a former senior instructor for the Korean special forces, shared a little bit of his family history. He would always refer to the Japanese as evil. I mean literally, he would say "the evil japanese this' or this system of the evil Japanese". I was already pretty familiar with the history of the region during this century, but to me, as an American, it was distant and clinical. He told me that his Grandmother had been raped by the Japanese during the annexation/occupation of Korea (ending w/ WW2). While his mother had been raped by the Chinese during the Korean war. If you were raised under those cirunstances, you might resent them too.

[crovax612]

Originally posted by Kwan Jang
-There is historical evidence that JJ had earlier Korean INFLUENCE. Also that the hwarang were a major influence on the bushi (samurai). There is NO doubt that the JJ had a MONUMENTAL influence on Hapkido and that Shotokan likewise had such an influence on TKD. China, Korea, and Japan have over the centuries (including this one), all been in conflict. They have all had cultural influence on each other no matter how hard each tries to deny it. I used to joke that the Chinese hate the Japanese; the Japanese hate the Koreans; and the Koreans hate everybody.
-I really never understood the hostility (and in some ways I hope I never fully do) until my friend and former training partner, who was a former senior instructor for the Korean special forces, shared a little bit of his family history. He would always refer to the Japanese as evil. I mean literally, he would say "the evil japanese this' or this system of the evil Japanese". I was already pretty familiar with the history of the region during this century, but to me, as an American, it was distant and clinical. He told me that his Grandmother had been raped by the Japanese during the annexation/occupation of Korea (ending w/ WW2). While his mother had been raped by the Chinese during the Korean war. If you were raised under those cirunstances, you might resent them too.

Hey, thanks alot for replying (I didn't think anybody would). Really helped broaden my views on both topics. I'd been aware of the hostility over the WW2 occupation, but I didn't think anyone would say something like "Those evil japanese people.. etc."

Also didn't know about the Hwa rang do influence on the Samurai. I think I may check out the style now (there's a class on my driving route to school), thanks!

[Acekicken]

Show some Evidence. While I don't Dout These 2 Countrys
Had contact in the Past Show some Evidence That Ju Jutsu
Came From Koreia.

[Kogusoku]

Indeed! Show some evidence to back up your claims.

Classical jujutsu comes from two sources, sumo and from yoroi kumi uchi (armoured grappling and infighting). There are plenty of documents that state this, namely the Nihon Kojiki, Nihon Shoki and other such documents.

Read this essay too for further information (http://www.koryu.com/library/mskoss8.html)

[Aegis]

Wow, way to resurrect a thread guys.... ;)

[BRITON]

My friend and I visited a Judo/JU Jitsu class today in koreatown. and one of the instrcuters (who was Korean) mentioned that Ju Jitsu was originaly a Korean martial art.


I told her that I hadn't read anything on Ju Jitsu that mentioned it as a Korean martial art, just a Japanese form of unarmed combat. She told me that the Japanese would have battles with the Koreans and eventualy adapted the art form.

Anyways, doesn't anyone know if this is valid? I was kinda suspiscious of it being another one of those Japanese/Korean rivalries.
JJ has no roots or lineage that can be claimed as in other styles which constantly bicker over. Its development was on the battlefield. The oldest literature I have on this is a form of Chinese grappling/striking called Go-Ti [Horn Gore] *said to have been introduced by Hsien-yuan Wangti in the battle of TULUK 2600BC. This sport consisted of wearing horns on the heads of combatants whilst they wrestled and struck one another. This is still practiced in Honan today. Later it was introduced to the Mongols in the wars with Manchuria 1206-1368AD. the Japanese encountered Go-Ti during the Tang Dynasty and readily adopted it calling it Sumo and they removed the wearing of horns. When the Mongols encountered the europeans they changed Grecian wrestling and relied on brute strength whereas the Chinese and Japanese favoured the agility and and manouverability. There is a boat load more of names dates etc.
*The secret arts of Chinese leg manoeuvers by: Lee Ying-Arng [1962 ed] Unicorn press.Hong Kong Press.

[Acekicken]

I thought this post was dead & gone a Year ago
LoL :bang:

[brahman]

wasnt it already stated on the forums that it came from either europe or china

[Aegis]

Check out post #5 for the origin of jujutsu.

[Kogusoku]

Is this old thread still around?? :bang:

[ivica]

Jujutsu comes from Japan. No China, no Korea, no Brazil :)) Kano wrote a whole book on it. Read it on judoinfo site. Saying anything else is same as if you would say it is of Canadian, Bulgarian or any other origin.

[BRITON]

Jujutsu comes from Japan. No China, no Korea, no Brazil :)) Kano wrote a whole book on it. Read it on judoinfo site. Saying anything else is same as if you would say it is of Canadian, Bulgarian or any other origin.
I think the original post by krovax612 was "ju jitsu Korean in origin?". The replies were to attempt to trace where the origin of jj may have been. In 1882 Jigoro Kano an expert in jj organised the Kodo-Kwan which he was president of. He altered the JJ name to judo which was the third branch of the Chinese fighting style of "CHI-CHI-SHU" [meaning to strike with skill][japanese pronounciation Ju-jitsu]. CCS was first recorded in the "Book of Han" 199 Pages of hand to hand combat techniques for the military by Pan Kuo [32-92AD]. In 1558 Chan Yuan-bin sailed to Japan and set up a CCS/Chin Na school in Bushio Edo todays Tokyo, has it changed its name again? not sure. Some of his apt pupils were: Miura Yoshitatsu and Fukuno Masakatsu, Isokai Jiro Saemon. Miura Yoshitatsu distinguished himself and was named as the founder of JU-JITSU.
Aside:-
The TV was invented by Baird in Britain, The TV as we know it was being invented by Fairfield in America at the same time, different approaches, same subject when they both knew of each others existance the race was on. The origins of JJ are merely a fact finding curiosity for historians, the fact is it exists and is being developed as we speak, whether the Chinese taught Japanese, or Viking travellers taught the Chinese? The Japanese took it to thier hearts and expanded on it to what we have now [just like the TV,cars,motorbikes etc]. No doubt it will change with time and neccessaty as do most things if they are to survive.
Family trees are a misnomer as 1 in 4 children are raised by fathers with different DNA`s.
Perfect the self and the world will be perfect?

[benkei]

I think the original post by krovax612 was "ju jitsu Korean in origin?". The replies were to attempt to trace where the origin of jj may have been. In 1882 Jigoro Kano an expert in jj organised the Kodo-Kwan which he was president of. He altered the JJ name to judo which was the third branch of the Chinese fighting style of "CHI-CHI-SHU" [meaning to strike with skill][japanese pronounciation Ju-jitsu]. CCS was first recorded in the "Book of Han" 199 Pages of hand to hand combat techniques for the military by Pan Kuo [32-92AD]. In 1558 Chan Yuan-bin sailed to Japan and set up a CCS/Chin Na school in Bushio Edo todays Tokyo, has it changed its name again? not sure. Some of his apt pupils were: Miura Yoshitatsu and Fukuno Masakatsu, Isokai Jiro Saemon. Miura Yoshitatsu distinguished himself and was named as the founder of JU-JITSU.
Aside:-


No offense, but where in gods name did you read that? I find it extremely hilarious that this Miura character was considered the founder of jujutsu considering the Takenouchi ryu was founded in 1532 (26 years before this "ccs" you speak of) , and the Tatsumi ryu was founded in 1550. Let's not forget Tsutsumi Hozan, which althought extinct now, had its origins somewhere in the 1300's. Considering that warriors were also around long before that (and I'm sure were using unarmed techniques similar to jujutsu, since they wore armour), claiming a man founding a jujutsu ryu in 1558 as being the "founder of jujutsu" is absurd.
Oh and lastly, jujutsu does not translate as "strike with skill"
ju=flexible/soft/pliant, jutsu=skill or technique

:rolleyes:

[Korpy]

So is Jujutsu Korean? :confused:

[benkei]

LoL, NO!

[Kogusoku]

So is Jujutsu Korean? :confused:

Absolutely not!

[BRITON]

No offense, but where in gods name did you read that? I find it extremely hilarious that this Miura character was considered the founder of jujutsu considering the Takenouchi ryu was founded in 1532 (26 years before this "ccs" you speak of) , and the Tatsumi ryu was founded in 1550. Let's not forget Tsutsumi Hozan, which althought extinct now, had its origins somewhere in the 1300's. Considering that warriors were also around long before that (and I'm sure were using unarmed techniques similar to jujutsu, since they wore armour), claiming a man founding a jujutsu ryu in 1558 as being the "founder of jujutsu" is absurd.
Oh and lastly, jujutsu does not translate as "strike with skill"
ju=flexible/soft/pliant, jutsu=skill or technique

:rolleyes:
My point exactly!! See post *7 for literary source.
History, times, dates, events have been known to be altered, distorted, or recorded incorrectly due to translation difficulties, take the Bible as a classic case. We as descendants choose to trust in the information we see as plausible but have no way of really knowing the truth as facts get distorted to suit the agenda of the story teller.
The most popular at the time gets the greatest credit, how many other unknowns were out there doing similar things. How many MA practitioners are out there doing their thing we have never heard of? Lets not bow to the events of the past but celebrate the place we are at in the present.
JJ may have been practiced in Korea before Japan under another title who cares?
I tried to make this point in this aside, obviously rather badly, my apologies all.
Aside:-
The TV was invented by Baird in Britain, The TV as we know it was being invented by Fairfield in America at the same time, different approaches, same subject when they both knew of each others existance the race was on. The origins of JJ are merely a fact finding curiosity for historians, the fact is it exists and is being developed as we speak, whether the Chinese taught Japanese, or Viking travellers taught the Chinese? The Japanese took it to thier hearts and expanded on it to what we have now [just like the TV,cars,motorbikes etc]. No doubt it will change with time and neccessaty as do most things if they are to survive.
Family trees are a misnomer as 1 in 4 children are raised by fathers with different DNA`s.
Perfect the self and the world will be perfect?

[Korpy]

My point exactly!! See post *7 for literary source.
History, times, dates, events have been known to be altered, distorted, or recorded incorrectly due to translation difficulties, take the Bible as a classic case. We as descendants choose to trust in the information we see as plausible but have no way of really knowing the truth as facts get distorted to suit the agenda of the story teller.
The most popular at the time gets the greatest credit, how many other unknowns were out there doing similar things. How many MA practitioners are out there doing their thing we have never heard of? Lets not bow to the events of the past but celebrate the place we are at in the present.
JJ may have been practiced in Korea before Japan under another title who cares?
I tried to make this point in this aside, obviously rather badly, my apologies all.
Aside:-
The TV was invented by Baird in Britain, The TV as we know it was being invented by Fairfield in America at the same time, different approaches, same subject when they both knew of each others existance the race was on. The origins of JJ are merely a fact finding curiosity for historians, the fact is it exists and is being developed as we speak, whether the Chinese taught Japanese, or Viking travellers taught the Chinese? The Japanese took it to thier hearts and expanded on it to what we have now [just like the TV,cars,motorbikes etc]. No doubt it will change with time and neccessaty as do most things if they are to survive.
Family trees are a misnomer as 1 in 4 children are raised by fathers with different DNA`s.
Perfect the self and the world will be perfect?


True, but others would still like to know.