Coming back 2 kung fu & Lau Gar queries

[BenScott]

HI all,

I've read the majority of postings and wanted to say hi. You all seem very friendly and welcoming. Hopefully I might be able to get some opinions here.

I used to train in Southern Praying Mantis for about four years but after classes were cancelled in my area I didn't exercise for about seven years. During this time I decided it would be a great idea to drink like a fish, smoke like a chimney and eat like a pig.

Until last year I was 19 1/2st. 15 months later I'm now under 14st and have packed in the smoking, cut back the drinking and eating good food instead of lots of it.


I've found a Lau Gar class locally which I've attended for the last 4 week and have really enjoyed. Martial Arts seem to be the only exercise I've ever wanted to get better at. I don't have an issue looking like a fool at the back for 6 months but there's a couple of things that bother me that I'd like to work on outside the class to get the best out of the lessons. If you guys/girls can offer any help, I'll be eternally grateful.

1) BIG GUT. I'm 6'3" so at under 14st I'm approaching somewhere near what I SHOULD weigh now, but I still have a bit of a gut on me and find it impossible to do full 'unsupported' sit ups like the ones we do in the class (about 80 times!). Is there a preliminary ab exercise for tubby gits like me to build up to it?

2) HOPELESS ROUNDHOUSE. Whilst much of what I learned in SOuthern Mantis is transferable, we never used to kick much. This Lau Gar class is about 80% kicks and its killing me (but in the good way). My biggest problem though is that I can't get the technique down for performing a roundhouse kick. Is there somewhere you lovely people could recommend on the web I could find a 'roundhouse for dummies' guide or something similar.

3) To be honest, as I'm so out of shape on a cardio level, I currently spend the first half of the class trying not to black out, and the second half trying to get my breath back. The flipside of that is at the moment I'm not getting a chance to concentrate on the forms or techniques being demonstrated. Is there somewhere on the web where I can get hold of Lau Gar form video clips?

4) THE CREATINE QUESTION. It's been suggested that Creatine might be a help to me with regards to being able to accomplish more in the classes and recovering more quickly. I'm an otherwise healthy bloke, but does this sound like a good idea?

Thank you all in advance, and I look forward to hearing from you.

Ben

[Sub zero]

This Lau Gar class is about 80% kicks and its killing me

Sounds odd for a lau gar class.May i ask who's ur instructor?And where do u live/train?
Oh welcome to the forum btw!
:D

[Sub zero]

Sugestions for ur questions

1) Try doing half sit ups.They are actualy harder than full sit ups and less strainious on ur back.BUt u should be able to do them.
U only (obvisouly) go half way up,ratehr than fully up.Never letting ur head/top of ur sholders to touch the ground.This keeps the tension on ur stomahc becasue ur not releaving it when u go fully up and ur not releaving it when u go fully down

These are harder.BUt do work ur abs alot better.

2) It depends on what association ur with.For a start i don't know too many lau gar guys in mine who call it a round house.We usually call it a turning kick.
Remeber that i lau gar syllabous , when doing the basic kicks, you are never required to kick above the waist.Infact it doesn't matter how low u kick as long as execute the kick correctly.
The most important things to rember are to straighten out ur toes,turn ur bcak foot so it faces almost 90 degrees,To get ur chamber theleg both before and after the kick, that it is a snap kick and that it should be come back in just as fast as it came out.

3)I don't know of any web sites for forms clips.And unfortunatl i've never seen any videos for forms below black belt.However, i have seen (and use to own) a bookelt which shows u the first few forms,blocks etc in framne to frame opics as demonstrated by master yau.Ask a senior grade in ur class for one of these.There quite useful.I don't think they hand them out any more.


4)I'm guessing that caretine is some sort of suplement?I honestly don't know much about them and have never used them.Sp i can't help u there.

Sorry

[stump]

Maybe it's a southern LG thing, my class in worthing focus almost exclusively on kicks too.

If any exercise feels akward ask for a substitute exercise that's more comfortable, don' be afraid to!

The lau gar roundhouse is a very specific type. Focus on lifting your knee first.....it all flows from there. And work on your hip flexability....and just kick to the legs until you feel comfortable at it. Height of a kick should not be important.

Hope this helps

[Sub zero]

DO u mainly concentrate on semi contact with these kicks.Is that why u kick high?

[BenScott]

Thanks for advice and opinions... Sit ups suck balls but I suppose its worth it in the long run. Thanks for the half sit-up idea.

I'm in Lewisham, and I believe the Sifu is Keith Baptiste. According to my little card its a BKFA affiliated club and everyone seems to have met Master Yau.

When I say the class seems to be about 80% kicking, I don't believe that the style itself is. You get the impression that the amount of kicking being done is as much for cardio as for practice.

Which to be honest is great for me.

When I did Southern Mantis, it was all about ending a fight as quickly as possibly and so strength, speed and jerk or 'shock' power were what we trained for. The cardio side of these classes is something that should benefit me in regular life more than being able to put a lot of power into my backpalm. That said, I'm glad to be doing another Southern Chinese style as there are more similarities than differences.

If anyone knows how I could track down the Lau Gar booklet mentioned above I'd be extremely grateful.


Ben

[Andy Murray]

Hi Ben,

the lau Gar syllabus books are no longer in print I'm afraid.

Congratulations on turning your life around by the way :D

Look at the magazine section of the site for some of the Techniques articles.

Can't remember exactly where it is, but Moderator Kickchick posted a superb link on kicking techniques a while back.

I'll go digging for it and post it when I find it.

[Smee]

Hi mate

I was in the middle of replying last night but got disconnected...doh

Anyway, my main point was the 80% kicks thing like Subzero - he's with same organisation as me. I'm not saying this is wrong but it does kinda go against the whole southern style thing. All the Lau Gar forms contain very few kicks and most below the waist. If it is just for cardio then ok but I suspect this type of teaching is why some people question whether Lau Gar is traditional CMA or not.

Don't get me wrong....I'm not criticising as if you are happy (having previously done southern mantis) then the class must be good enough - just curious as to how different teachers approach things.

As for the sit-ups thing - I'm about your weight but have gradually built up my sit ups by doing set nos each night and adding one or two per night or week. I now have no real problems with them.

It's the pressups that I struggle with...the extra weight makes them a killer - especially when you do them with hands together under your chest. Aaiiiieeee!!......eet huurt baaad.....

[BenScott]

I reckon your take on the situps is the only forward. I still hate them though! Know what you mean about the press ups too.

To be honest, the main reason I'm back at Kung Fu after all is this time is because its the only activity I've ever been involved with where I actively wanted to get fitter becuase it would improve my abilities in the class.

I know I'm opening myself up for all sorts of flames now, but in terms of pure direct fighting, I've seen nothing that is more practical and direct than Southern Mantis.

It's not pretty but for someone of my size and mentality, it was perfect. Since I started MA all those years ago I have only ever had one fight and I was drunk at the time and so didn't have the time or ability to think. I genuinely feel that the instincts and techniques instilled in me saved me that night.

However, that doesn't mean I'm not interested in learning something else, whether or not I ever (god forbid!) use any of those new techniques in a defence situation.

I think the question of traditional chinese martial arts is sometimes overstated somewhat. If you are following MA for fitness and the more spiritual side, then I can understand an insistance on preserving the purity of the style.

However, if a technique devised 300 years ago is now impractical taking into consideration western physiques, modern fighting or brawling styles etc. is it wrong to modify it to achieve maximum practicality?

One of the ways to kills these arguments is for instructors, sifus and sigung to teach the traditional form or technique, and then show the more practical application.

My former Mantis sifu had split from his teacher because he felt some of the traditional teachings were endangering the students and filling them with a worrying amount of overconfidence. He left (or was booted out of) the school and set up on his own.

Subsequently, he taught both a traditional style, mixed with the modified techniques that he had refined from 20 years scrapping on the streets and Kwoons of Hong Kong.

A good balance, I feel. Its too early to tell how the Lau Gar class will be. I've been going for four weeks and each week has been very different so thats a big plus. So far it seems that the slant is more on the traditional side, but part of that is my old Mantis brain questioning the validity of a punch or kick. Maybe when I have a broader understanding of the philosophy and fundementals of the system I'll be in a better position to judge.

Once again, thank you all for your help.

Ben

[Andy Murray]

What's the latest then Ben?

[PantherFist]

I'm just curious, but who was your Mantis teacher, was it by any chance Tony(Yan Lon) Leung, or maybe his student Kings Liu. It sounded to me that you practised the Chow Gar style of Mantis, due to your reference to shock power.

[Mo Lung]

So far it seems that the slant is more on the traditional side, but part of that is my old Mantis brain questioning the validity of a punch or kick. Maybe when I have a broader understanding of the philosophy and fundementals of the system I'll be in a better position to judge.

Always question every technique you learn. Not openly every time in class, of course, but in your own mind. Get your head inside it, figure it out and try to apply it in sparring or with a willing partner. If you really can't understand it, then ask your teacher. This is how you learn a martial art as opposed to learning how to copy a bunch of body movements.

[CFT]

Since there was so much in the beginning of the thread about sit-ups, I thought I would post about a "eureka" moment in my training.

I'm pretty much a novice compared to most on this forum, but the cardio comment earlier in the thread prompted me to comment on this.

Although the sit-up exercises are not cardio, they serve a greater purpose than just basic exercise or conditioning. It promotes body unity, or what is traditionally known as "yiu-ma hup yut" - waist/horse (stance) unity. In modern sports science I think this is known as "core" strength.

Since I realised this, I have not "looked down my nose" at sit-ups and consider them to be as important as stance training, punching and kicking. But I agree, they're still bloody difficult :p

[Enigma]

Ben, If you haven't found a Lau Gar syllabus book (more of an 'introduction book' to be honest) I got a photocopied one when I joined up so I've no problem scanning and e-mailing it if it helps. It's only 32 pages long so if I can help.......

[Andy Murray]

Ben, If you haven't found a Lau Gar syllabus book (more of an 'introduction book' to be honest) I got a photocopied one when I joined up so I've no problem scanning and e-mailing it if it helps. It's only 32 pages long so if I can help.......

Just watch out on copyright.
I'm sure my copy say's not to reproduce it somewhere.
There were two books originally, but I believe there are now DVD's available from the BKFA.

[Sub zero]

try the goo old "for academic use only" at the top of each page.


Works for music...............don't know about other documents. Use to do it al the time at school ............still do.

[Enigma]

Erm, tricky one this :confused: . Like I said I've only got a photocopied one and there's nowhere in it about copyright, reproducing e.t.c but to be on the safe side I'll retract the offer. Sorry! :o
Still, I would have thought that if you ask your teacher he should do all he can to get hold of one for a student that asks, even if it is only a photocopied one like mine.

Cheers for the warning Andy!

[T C D*fighter*]

BenScott:

Hello there,

My advice is..

Don't worry about doing too many sit ups at all, you could have the best abs ever from performing hundreds of sit ups but they will still be covered by body fat!

Find a playing field and go running a few times per week and watch what you are eating a little more. You should see some results when your body fat % is low enough to show your abdominals. I know you said earlier you do not like doing any other activities other than Kung Fu but there you go.

Good luck!

[T C D*fighter*]

Ben Scott:

Saw your point on Creatine earlier too: It does help and I have probably cycled around 10 courses of it. The best product I have come across so far is called CellTech and is produced by a company called MuscleTech. Its expensive but it is worth it for the gains you get.

http://www.sncdirect.com is the cheapest place to get it from.

TCD

[ikthius]

guys on the exercise front look no further, I am a fitness instructor and have been for the last 8 years.

sit ups/crunches: when performed with someone holding your feet to the ground, works the abs until a certain point which is where you would get to without someone holding down your feet, then it kicks in the hip flexor and quadraceps.
However, the real secret to working the abdominal correctly is, think about putting on a tight pair of jeans, you pull in your stomach right in to your spine, do this and at the same time pull up your pelvic floor muscles, these muscles are the ones you use to hold a crap/pee in (think of a ping pong ball between your bum hole and your willy/front bum ((sorry about explanaition)) and pull everything up)
If these are done together, you should feel muscles working about 1/2 an inch from the pointy part of your hip to your belly button. (this should be done at every second of the day, not just when doing crunches/sit ups).
This means you have engaged your transverse abdomimus, which is your main core stabalising muscle (every one ignores these cause it is difficult).
when your do a crunch, you should hold this in as you go up (control the movement, make sure you feel the muscles working) and down (under more control) this works primarily the rectus abdominus (six pack) and the internal and external obliques (sides).
Your abdominals should now be trained to go inwards instead of outwards.

But do not neglet your lower back.

It is true that spot reduction does not work, in fact you can do 1 million sit ups per day if that is ever possible and still not get rid of the fat over the abs, so cardio vascular exercise is the best for fat burning.
C.V. can be done more often, make sure it is something you enjoy, like 5's, the circuits at the start of your class, swimming, etc, make sure you feel out of breath but you could still hold a good conversation, if you can't youare over training, and you will need to give up quickly.
If you hold more fat over a certain area, this will be the last to show improvement.

so good luck and I hope you all get the six pack you want.

Ik