Is Silat worth it?

[TheMightyMcClaw]

I've started in Pencak Silat recently.... and found that it is tragically expensive. We pay 99 dollars a month for three classes a week, plus an annual 125 dollars membership fee. The uniform is 150 dollars.
This is a lot of money.

I'm also a bit uneasy about the training philosophy.... we work basic movements and such (still not sure of the proper terminology - the equivalent of kihon in karate), but the actual combat application isn't taught until much later on in the student's developement. Given how much I'm paying, it makes me wonder if Silat is worth it.

Is this sort of thing normal for a Silat school?

[Sgt_Major]

What school is it? Who is the instructor? What do you get as uniform? Is insurance included in the membership?

I'm not being rude, but we need more info that what you originally gave before passing judgement

[Taff]

I've started in Pencak Silat recently.... and found that it is tragically expensive. We pay 99 dollars a month for three classes a week, plus an annual 125 dollars membership fee. The uniform is 150 dollars.
This is a lot of money.

I'm also a bit uneasy about the training philosophy.... we work basic movements and such (still not sure of the proper terminology - the equivalent of kihon in karate), but the actual combat application isn't taught until much later on in the student's developement. Given how much I'm paying, it makes me wonder if Silat is worth it.

Is this sort of thing normal for a Silat school?

So for $100 you're getting 12 lessons? If these hours are in the region of 90mins-2 hours, then this is what I would expect at a martial arts school.
$125 a year is a fair bit, I'll give you that.
And $150 uniform, I also wouldn't be happy.

I don't do silat, so take my opinion with a pinch of salt, but I would say you're getting a good deal on the class prices, but the uniform and membership is not cheap. Though I have seen much, much worse deals than this elsewhere. Just be thankful you didn't have to sign a contract and join the black belt program.

[Ular Sawa]

I think I know where you're going. Silat is a great art but I'm not entirely sure about what your type of Silat is like. How much later do they teach you the combat application? There are some guys who teach in the western suburbs who teach a different type if you're interested.

[catch wannabe]

how long til they teach you applications? How good are the senior students?speak to a couple find out how long before they learnt applications, and watch them to see if theyre any good

are you wanting to study it for combat effectiveness? if self defence is your main reason for training id do something else.. either check out where ular is suggesting or take up a different art

as i think i know which school you are attanding and personally if it is i would save my cash...

[Silatyogi]

I've started in Pencak Silat recently.... and found that it is tragically expensive. We pay 99 dollars a month for three classes a week, plus an annual 125 dollars membership fee. The uniform is 150 dollars.
This is a lot of money.

I'm also a bit uneasy about the training philosophy.... we work basic movements and such (still not sure of the proper terminology - the equivalent of kihon in karate), but the actual combat application isn't taught until much later on in the student's developement. Given how much I'm paying, it makes me wonder if Silat is worth it.

Is this sort of thing normal for a Silat school?


Silat is worth whatever you think its worth.

If your teacher is great you wont feel bad to spend the money needed to learn from him or her. If you are not learning and you feel some how its not worth it, go find another Guru to study with.

I would recommend you seek out Silat Gurus that aren't caught up in the "organizations fees", "Uniforms", but are actually real silat players teaching real functional application to the djurus & Langkahs and also have real world experience with their Silat. They do exist!

It would probably be cheaper for you to get on a plane and study with someone privately than to Sign up for a year in your current situation.

I have found that the real gurus aren't about the money or the BS found in most "commercialized schools or cult like martial arts schools. Also you really learn more in the "backyard" than you would ever learn in any Dojo.

I would recommend you get a cheap ticket on Air Tran and go see either

Guru Cliff Stewart
www.cliffstewart.com

or

Guru Stevan Plink
www.pencaksilat.com

Peace


Santiago Dobles

[tellner]

I'm prejudiced when it comes to my teacher, so I won't say anything about him. But Cliff Stewart is a world-class martial artist, superb teacher and - rarer - an incredibly decent human being.

There is a very good Silat teacher a little closer to you. Mushtaq Ali Al-Ansari is in Grand Rapids. He's been doing this sort of stuff since before there was dirt. Old, treacherous, and dangerous. Just what a silat player should be :) Also a fine teacher and one of the best people you would ever want to meet.

He teaches at Chuck Pippin's school Innovative Martial Arts (http://www.innovativemartialarts.com). There are also some very good Maharlika Kuntao people in the area. Mushtaq or Chuck can help you get in touch with them.

[IndraMuda]

Hi All,

I am new to this forum. May I share my humble thoughts!

IS SILAT WORTH IT?

Well, this question reminded me of my early university’s days. A political philosophy professor asked us: “How one knows that one is right?”

Perhaps it is time that all pesilats being honest to themselves…….do you really practicing “SILAT” in its broadest meaning and scope? I also wonder whether the meaning of the word, as described in all dictionaries and by all the so call experts are the TRUTH! Or it is the so call a “modern pesilat” approach in propogating the ILMU?

If we could not be sure, how are we going to know whether it is worth it or not in the first place?

Sorry if my posting sounded stupid…….I just thinking a loud and confused! I hope I don’t upset anybody.

[slipthejab]

I think there would be a lot of Indonesians in shock or sniggering if they heard you were paying $150. for a Silat uniform?!?! :eek:

For that price it had better be made of the finest handwoven silk and lined with gold thread. :D

Sorry to say... but that sound like a stupidly outrageous price.
For that price you could have one custom made... no wait... a dozen or so... in Indonesia... including shipping to the states or wherever you're at.

What does it consist of?
A top and a sarong of sorts or a top and a pair of pants?!?!

Not laughing at you but I am shocked at that kind of price for something that I imagine is about as basic as it gets.

[Sgt_Major]

I train in a pair of Combat trousers, a club t-shirt and a sarong. All In I think it was about £40 - so $70??

[Monyet Nakal]

$100 a month is not that extreme. $125 annual membership dues sounds like higher than normal but also not unheard of. It is also not uncommon to have schools that teach jurus for awhile before they teach applications. (However if your definition of "much later" is a year or so then I would question that)

You lose me at the $150 mandatory uniform. That sounds like McDojo business ethics to me.

Is silat worth it? Well, I would say that depends entirely on the system, the instructor and your willingness to learn. From the sound of it the folks here have given you some nice options if you are wary of your current situation. Be prepared that there is going to be a cost factor whereever you go but most places should have a more realistic one. Good luck!

[Gajah Silat]

Seems a lot to me too.

What kind of uniform is it? A traditional baju Silat(these cost next to nothing) or what? Wouldn't a cheap black gi & a sarong do?

Don't you get to try before you buy ;) It's a lot to shell out if it doesn't turn out to be the system for you.

[Kiai Carita]

You lose me at the $150 mandatory uniform. That sounds like McDojo business ethics to me.


Peace to all,

Just a snippet of info: a nice (but not top quality) hand painted (batik tulis) bandana (destar) and matching sarong (kain) would cost about Rp 400.000 for the destar and Rp 900.000 for the sarong. So $150 for a top quality silat costume that would be too nice to practise in would be normal :D

Warm salams to al,
KC

[Garuda]

For me it sounds expensive.According to me there are a lot of teachers/instructors that are not commercially driven.

Garuda...

[MasJudt]

There's always a fine line. I've always charged based upon how much of an a$$ somebody was. The more of a j@rk, the higher the tuition. Students that really committed to learning found thier money was no longer accepted, thier effort and character was good enough tuition.

Now I'm teaching out of a facility - I have to charge a fee. I find if I charge less than the average going rate - the art is not valued so much. My preference is for good training equipment. This costs money too. And if I need to get something for a student, I'm going to charge for that time. As a teacher, I don't owe most students anything, and my aet is certainly not 'free.' In the modern world, the exchange of money has replaced the commitments of old.

It's a funny thing managing students. I often find most people are rather selfish. You don't see them helping out in liu of cash like you would in the old days. 99% of students should be charged. And if they are not good material, charged a lot. (Note, I'm talking character here, not ability.)

But $150 dollars for a uniform? Does it say Calvin Klien?

School T-Shirts usually sell in the states for $10-25 depending on how good they are. Sweat bottoms/Black Gi pants - anywhere from $5 (on sale) to $30. A sarong (if you wear them) maybe $20-40.... so it can add up, I guess. But $150 seems like a cross-sell. I prefer to remove barriers from people joining rather than 'milk them' while enthisiasm is high...

[Silk Road]

Greetings everyone,

Mas Djut: I completely agree with your tuition scale! I use the same one and call it the a$$hole tax. :rolleyes:

Mighty Claw: Dude, you're going to U of M, jeez with those prices whats another $150? :D

Silkroad

[silatliam]

Hi

Totally agree with mas djut. One of the things students forget is that easpecially in the western world very few gyms or halls offer they studios for free and they usually as for a commitment ie pay in advance. Many students moan why silat teacher charge and should do if for free or very little cost. If a teacher went up to a manager of a gym and asked him for free use of his studio as you were a silat teacher you be laugh out of the gym if not thrown out. Very few students are as commited as eastern students might have been in the past. The days when a student came along and help his teacher in exchange for lesson is almost nowaday totally extinct. Sure there maybe one or two but thats it. Nowaday if you thought that way you would end up homeless, no food to put on the table to feed the wife yourself or your children and would be a bum,. I dont believe teachers should exploit the students but there has to be a fair price for a fair training sessions. For me personnally I teach and give advice to my senior students outside of normal class time and that advice and training is free, but to beginners and intermediate I have to charge.

Uniforms are about $70 top bottom and sarong and you can train as many nights as you like for $ 18 a week.

[TheMightyMcClaw]

Hello all,

Thank you for your feedback. I've decided I'm not going to keep with Silat... I've found a CMA school which fits better to the way I want to train in martial arts (I am a Chinese studies major, after all). I guess my big problem now is how I break this news to my Silat instructor... I've never had to "break up" with a martial arts school before.

From what I saw, the uniform was nothing terribly special. Looked kind of like a black dobak with some yellow trim... I don't that the price included a sarong, either.

[Ular Sawa]

Hello all,

Thank you for your feedback. I've decided I'm not going to keep with Silat... I've found a CMA school which fits better to the way I want to train in martial arts (I am a Chinese studies major, after all). I guess my big problem now is how I break this news to my Silat instructor... I've never had to "break up" with a martial arts school before.

From what I saw, the uniform was nothing terribly special. Looked kind of like a black dobak with some yellow trim... I don't that the price included a sarong, either.

Tell them you're going with CMA since you're a Chinese studies major. That should do it. Going to Great Lakes Wushu?

[MasJudt]

What's the CMA class?

[TheMightyMcClaw]

Well, my problem has been solved. I just went to the Silat studio tonight.... and as I was taking my shoes off, the head student says he wants to talk to me. He said that he didn't think Silat was the right fit for me, and that I'd be better off training elsewhere. These were my thoughts exactly, and I told him that I had been wanting to talk about the very same issue.

I have four hypotheses as to how he came to his conclusion:
1. He or some other member of the studio are an active member on MAP, read this very thread, and figured out who I was (not terribly hard to do).

2. As I had gone to one lesson with this CMA group to check it out, someone at the Silat studio may have found out that I had an inkling to switch styles.

3. I had committed some imperceptable cultural fopa (however that word is spelled) and offended the people at Silat. He made an enigmatic comment about being conscious of one's mannerisms and the way one presents oneself, and I couldn't tell if this was a hint or just general advice (it seemed like the type of thing he would say anyways). I can't think of anything I've said or done that would be particularly offensive... I mentioned that I was concerned about the price of the school once, and I missed a couple of classes due to a severely frozen bicycle.

4. He sensed my doubts via Jedi Mind Powers.

In any case, it spared me the awkwardness of having to raise the subject myself. I feel somewhat saddened, as I did technically get kicked out of a martial arts school, but all in all it went very smoothly. I was also refunded the 125 dollars for the membership dues, which I thought was a very gentlemanly gesture of them.

By the way, the CMA school is under Michael G-something (Grabeski, maybe? something along those lines, everyone calls him "Mr. G"). I don't know the name of the organization (it's quite informal), but I hope it's what I'm looking for.

[Ular Sawa]

We did forget to mention the development of Jedi mind powers in answer to your original question. Glad it worked out for you. Good luck with the new class and your studies. Cheers.

[serakmurid]

The phrase is "Faux Pas".

[tellner]

Glad you found something you're happy with. If you ever do want to investigate the Dark Side Chuck and Mushtaq are close by and well worth a visit.

[bernie]

so what school and who is the teacher ????
This would help others from encountering the same issues if you mentioned the teacher's name.

[Sgt_Major]

I dont see the need for that. Just because one person didnt suit it, doesnt mean anyone else wouldnt. No need for naming names

[bernie]

Seems like it is not a question of suiting or not suiting but the manner or impression one gets. In this instance it could lead one to think that all silat schools are like that in terms of their fees, charges, hence how this topic came up in the first place. In any case there is only 1 silat school at the U of M so it is not difficult to figure it out.

[Khilap]

Well I think it is expensive well the uniform. Masjudt has stated something very interesting and thinking about it I agree with him. If someone of the likes of the de Thouars were teaching me I wouldn't mind paying that or with some of their top students either. I know that I will be getting quality and a lot of knowledge and experience.

[Tuankaki]

In some schools identity is a cornerstone feature. To that end, a pair of sweats and a T-shirt will get one through one practice. So maybe a person needs two pair. And for traditional schools, a sarong is required. So, maybe $50 for a couple pair of sweats, and $30 for a couple of T's, and then $40 or so for a good sarong, and you're good to go.

You want a pair of fancy dojo shoes? Pony up!

[Orang Jawa]

IMHO, to single out one silat teacher for how much he charged his class is not fair. But life is not fair in general, so be it. First of all, a student have a choices to whom he/she want to learn. They were many schools around with different system, different prices, and different uniform. You must clearly define your objective. Why you are here, why you what you do. If your objective is other than to learn the silat art, than you don't have a clear objective, fuzzy goals will not get you anywhere.
As far as uniform, some teacher demanded and some teacher don't. Honestly, in my years of learning silat, I have never worn sarung at all, I worn it to pray but never worn it to practice. Currently we practice with loose pants and t-shirt and we practice in my living room. If we have a nice day we play in the backyard like the olddays. :) And no one wore belts either, no ranks and no tittles in our class.
I think only just recently, especially in Europe and America, silat players worn sarung when they are practice. Times changes, indeed
Tristan