Metal trainig knives?

[silverfox_y2k]

Hi everyone,

I have recently started training in Escrima this summer. was wondering if anyone could recommend a good site that sold good metal training knives?

[Joe karate]

I would think you may be better off with rubber training knives. You can make contact without fear of injury. While i realize metal training knives are not combat sharp they can still cut.

[YODA]

Rubber training knives are totally unsuitable for Eskrima training - you may as well tell a Kendoka to use a rubber Shinai :D

Try Bob Breen's place...

www.fightgear.co.uk

[stump]

Yoda's correct ( funny that!)

cos there's a lot of manipulation of the knife involved in escrima training rubber knives just don't work well. You can get solid but totally blunt metal training knives that work nicely to FMA training

[silverfox_y2k]

Cheers thanx Yoda, I think I will order form Bob Breen's site he has a god collection.


Hey Stump, I owe it to you buddy for linking me up wit Black eagle escrima in Hammersmith. Been going there for a couple of months already. I am absolutely loving it. cheers mate!! Hows the boxing classes going?

[RobP]

Try www.systema.org.uk in the clothing & equipment section

I have them made specifically for our training. And I agree, rubber knives are next to useless for training.

[stump]

Silverfox - no probs mate, glad you're enjoying it!

Spoke to the guys in the southall gym and they're only training once a week (Wednesday when I do VT) until the season starts again in Sept. Hoping to get down there soon though.

Will hopefully see you at the black eagle sometime soon....though I've been saying that for ages....just cant fit it into my schedule :(

[Joe karate]

Please explain why they are useless. I have practically no experience in this area but i just thought rubber was fine, why not?

[thiaboxr2]

Rubber training knifes, at least the ones I came accross, are useless because they are flexable. They bend when you try a disarm and they just do not look realistic. There is no weight to them.
When training knives, you want the knife to feel real and look real. You want realistic training-as if you are really going to get stabbed by a knife that will not give when you strike it with another knife or stick.

Why train with a rubber knife when a knife weilding assailant will have a real one? If thats all you got is rubber knives, then train as realistic as possible.


My opinion, of course.

[YODA]

My current training knife is the Porter Training Knife shown here...

http://www.bloodsport.com/product.htm

[Joe karate]

Thanks for the clarification

[qbushido]

check http://www.sayoc.com/ there you cna buy metal training knives of all sorts.

[Bodhi]

Great Sites Everyone,
Thanks

[Brad Ellin]

An alternative to rubber or metal training knives are ones made from polyboard. The plastic material used to make cutting boards. I have made a few training blades from this and they work beautifully.

[silverfox_y2k]

so where can we get these polyboard knives, do u have a website? for some reason I have a current fascination withtraining knives, the more unsual the better:D

[Sub zero]

I agree that alot of rubber training knifes are rubbish.BUt my Kung Fu found some which are heavy (for rubber ones) , admitadly the blade is bendy tho.I don't know very much about FMA so i can't sayif they'ds be suitable.

Actualy are there any FMA clubs in Scotland?Just i've never heard of one.(NOt that i can/can afford to go)

[47Ronin]

one thing i do is just take the real things and rap them up with electrical tape. gives weight doesnt bend cheap too.
end of problem haha.

[Palusut]

Please also consider Master Ray Dionaldo, who is also the chief knife maker for Sayoc-Kali.

The aluminum trainers that he sells are high quality, handmade, and come in a variety of styles.

Visit him at www.warriorcraft.com

Tell him that Palusut sent you.

[Martelo3000]

Hey,

These guys do good work for really excellent prices:

http://www.stab.ca/

I had just bought two aircraft aluminum ginuntings from the US for $180, then I saw my classmates with theirs which they got for $55 each (CDN currency) which were the same quality but with nicer handles.

Plus they make inexpensive custom blades and excellent weapon cases.

[pesilat]

I would think you may be better off with rubber training knives. You can make contact without fear of injury. While i realize metal training knives are not combat sharp they can still cut.

Nope. A properly made metal training knife (usually aluminum) can't cut. It might tear flesh but the amount of force required would be pretty substantial. The worst danger with one would come from a stab - but even then, you'd have to really intend to do some damage to do more than just bruise the person.

The exception to this is burrs. Aluminum is, by metal standards, pretty soft. It dings up pretty easily. While blade on blade contact is pretty minimal (at least in the training that I do), it does occasionally happen. Usually it happens when I hit one of my partner's sheathed knives while doing my work. However, if working disarms or a blade gets dropped or whatever on concrete or bounces off a wall, burrs often result in the edge of the blade. These burrs can be sharp enough to cut even during light training. It's important to check trainers before training and keep any burrs sanded down so they don't pose a hazard.

I hate flimsy rubber training knives. I've seen some acceptable ones made of hard rubber. And wooden training knives can work. But, personally, I still prefer aluminum. The metal tends to be cold which makes it very easy to distinguish whether you've come in contact with the edge/tip or the flat of the blade. With wood or other materials, they tend to be not so cold and harder to distinguish which part of the blade you're coming in contact with.

Mike

[Matt_Bernius]

In addition to the points that Mike brought up I've found that everyone gets a heck of a lot more focused when dealing with the metal training knife. There's something about the weight and feel of the knife that brings a bit more realism to training scenarios without adding more chance of injury.

I'm to the point I hate training with anything but metal knives.

- Matt

[NeilX66]

From bitter personal experience (and several hours in an A and E :cry: ), I can tell that metal training weapons can tear and stab very well, towards the end of one of our classes I was training knife passing with my training partner, just from a simple straight thrust, I'm not certain if he was trying to be clever or if he lost his grip on the knife but he rotated to blade in his hand so it was coming towards me as a backhanded curved strike, I went to do a back hand pass and neatly impaled my forearm, I still have a hole in my arm, and a nice party trick were a piece of unattached muscle jumps up and down. :D

The moral of the story is that I still train with metal knives, especially after seeing a wooden one splinter badly, and I just don't like the feel of rubber ones. I now make my own knives, and I'm a lot more careful in training, but I would advise you to be careful of metal blades with a very pronounced grind on them, as it can make the tip and edge very dangerous, the one that hit me was only about 1mm across at the tip, I try to keep mine about 6mm thick, with a very slight grind on them to indicate an edge.

Neil

[shootodog]

after reading neil's post i now feel reluctant to advise the "patay na talim" knives that we use in training.

basically a "patay na talim" (dead edge) is any knife (i use a cheap balisong) that i have sent to a "manghahasa" (smith) and have him remove the edge and point by grinding it on a rotary grindstone.

the weight and feel of a real knife without the edge.

[NeilX66]

Shootodog,

There is no problem with the way you grind the edge off your blades, and I think for an experienced practioner it is definitely the way to go, but in this case Silverfox states that he has only just started in the FMAs' and I'd hate to see him put off these fascinating arts by a training accident,

Neil

[shootodog]

Shootodog,

There is no problem with the way you grind the edge off your blades, and I think for an experienced practioner it is definitely the way to go, but in this case Silverfox states that he has only just started in the FMAs' and I'd hate to see him put off these fascinating arts by a training accident,

Neil

thanks neil! it is quite sad that some old fma'ers in this country say: "kailangan masaktan ka sa patalim. paano ka pa matututong umiwas?" (working with the knife involves lots of pain. how else will one learn to respect the knife?). i think that this attitude may turn away many who might really be interestred in learning fma.

[ranger]

...working with the knife involves lots of pain. how else will one learn to respect the knife?
its good to see a very traditional arnisador's point of view. this is how we think too but to be realistic i think yoda's porter knife looks good for training BOTH for the one slashing and the one being slashed. Palusut's knife is i think very good for stabbing techniques and disarmada (disarm).

btw from the link given by Yoda there's a reference and pic of a GUNUNTING. but correct me if i'm wrong fellow arnisadors but thats a GINUNTING from the word GUNTING meaning SCISSORS.

good day! :)

[shootodog]

its good to see a very traditional arnisador's point of view. this is how we think too but to be realistic i think yoda's porter knife looks good for training BOTH for the one slashing and the one being slashed. Palusut's knife is i think very good for stabbing techniques and disarmada (disarm).

btw from the link given by Yoda there's a reference and pic of a GUNUNTING. but correct me if i'm wrong fellow arnisadors but thats a GINUNTING from the word GUNTING meaning SCISSORS.

good day! :)

ginunting/ gugunting are the traditional weapon of pikiti tirsia kali. it originates from where the tortal clan is from (bacolod).

[Airyu]

Hello All,

Just another point about aluminum or metal trainers,

Many people have opted to make their own trainers, but get thin aluminum stock. Be careful with these, as they can still enter into the body due to the width of the blade. Purchase good starting stock, or purchase premade blades. Tuhon Dionaldo, has top notch material as well as EDGES2!

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.


www.Bujinkandojo.net