Punching Power

[nightcrawlerEX]

Most people think that to have alot of power in your punch you need to sacrifice speed and bulk up your arms. In my oppinion this is not true

Here are my thoughts (May be wrong, But Worked for me)

Power = Speed

Think about it, What would you rather get hit by? a tennis ball going at a slow speed or one going at a high speed?

Therefore any hit you do, if it is fast enough is going to be hard. The Power of your punch is also effected by the force behind the target. So if you are doing a punch and you are verry muscular then the punch will probably be verry hard. But you are losing alot of power just by hitting with your arm. You need to put your whole hip into it and use your whole body behind the punch (without leaning foward too much) use your body like a corkscrew and twist while pushing the shoulder doing the punch foward while pulling the other shoulder backward.

Weight training can affect your punching but there are differences in types of strengths gained by weight training.

You have both Fast and Slow twich muscle fibres. By training slow twich muscles you are gaining Strength for slow movements. By training the fast twich fibres you are gaining strength for fast movements (punching).

Therefore by training your fast twich muscle fibres you are gaining strength for fast movements like punching.

Power = Strength & Speed

By combining a good technique and the right type of weight training you can greatly increase your punching power and speed.

There are 3 stages of a punch (My Thoughts)

1. The throwing of the punch (The movement of the body and the punch moving toward the target)

2. The inch Power (Where your arm is qalmost fully extended)

3. The Follow Through (Pushing Through the target for extra power)

In My oppinion the best time for a punch to make contact is during the second stage (when the arm is almost fully extended) beacuse this is the stage of the punch when the most resistance is requred to stop the punch (From the Bag or Enemy) and the least force is required by you to complete the punch. This is also the time of the punch when the most power is in the punch.

Thanx,
NightcrawlerEX

P.S. Please Feel free to discredit my oppinons or make any corrections. I was self taught with my punches and these things i mentioned above helped me to increase my punching power by at least double.

[Checkhands]

Everything you've said is valid and pretty much on point.
One thing you can do to increase your power is to snap your punch at the right moment. It's a little hard to explain because if you snap too early you lose power. Snap too late and you'll be leaning into it. Also w/ a good power punch, your front foot should land slightly after your punch. This will keep the kinetic energy from splitting into two different directions.
Putting your hip into your strikes will indeed increase the power of your strikes, but you have to be careful not to over torque yourself for obvious reasons. The secret behind true hitting power is to pull the power of strikes from your legs. To push off and use that power will more than double your striking effectiveness.
Finally, maintaining that relaxed attitude is essential to having fast, accurate, powerful strikes, throws, and effective locks.

[Developing]

All very true. The principal behind the various motions of throwing punches, implementing locks and throws remains constant of being relaxed and not too "stiff" as you have pointed out. I only commented because your points reminded me of guy I used to train with who had excellent boxing skills demonstrating fluidity and looseness with his punches during sparring sessions but for some reason was unable to translate that movement into implementing locks. And I'm not even talking about under grappling conditions I mean during the simple exchange between uki/tori. During a sparring session he would remain agile and loose working combinations and throwing fluid strikes but as a tori he would stiffen up and try to muscle all his techniques which was often extremely painful for his uki.

[Shrukin89]

You're right on the dot nightcrawlerEX.

Not only the snap, increases the power and speed, so does yell KIAP!

[freak]

great post....its always good to learn and perfect your techniques, thanks!

[kyokutsuki]

[QUOTE=nightcrawlerEX]
Power = Speed

? Power= mass x speed
so there for u must try to obtain maximum bulk and strenght only up 2 a point were 0 % speed is lost ( as bulky as u can without losing any speed )

[kyokutsuki]

fluidity is the key to a good punch. Yes. drunken style kung fu
wen throwing a punch tence you are restricting the muximum extend speed and so a weak punch!

[BloodWolf806]

Well, I'm 6 feet tall, 250 pounds, I don't need to worry about power. And I'm also fairly fast. It's all in speed and technique.

[Captain Karate]

Here are my thoughts (May be wrong, But Worked for me)

Power = Speed


No offense but that's really bad physics. I think your on the right track though.

I'm pretty sure this is the correct formula. Though not 100% sure as I stopped doing Physics ages ago.

Kinetic Energy = 1/2 x Mass x Velocity²
or
Ek = 1/2mv²

Which means in the long run speed is where most of the "power" as you say comes from. Not to say mass is not important, and mass comes from proper structure and technique (getting all your body weight behind the punch) and of course bulking up dosen't hurt either :D.

Also you have to think about impulse which is when something going very fast stops very quickly (i.e. Bruce Lee's fist smashing into some guy's face.) the quicker the deceleration the more the energy. That's why high speed car crashes are so disasterous.

I think this is also what's going on with assault rifles these days, since they fire 5.56 rather than 7.62. Because even though 5.56 have less mass, since they go faster they end up with more kinetic energy. And yes I know I'm ignoring surface area. :p

If I'm wrong then please mighty Physics gurus correct my ignorance. :cry:

[yodaofcoolness]

What about the part of the fist you are hitting with? Will you not get more power per surface area by hitting with just the two "punching nuckles" rather than the whole fist?

[eddiehizo]

I disagree with that. Speed isn't always necessary. i've studied ninjitsu for 10 years and instead of using muscle strength use your whole body motion for the punch. This mean using your legs and your whole body mass to execute the punching power behind this. Speed is easily to add to but doing this leverage create more devasting blow.

[nightcrawlerEX]

I disagree with that. Speed isn't always necessary. i've studied ninjitsu for 10 years and instead of using muscle strength use your whole body motion for the punch. This mean using your legs and your whole body mass to execute the punching power behind this. Speed is easily to add to but doing this leverage create more devasting blow.

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46659

[Trick Nasty]

I think your analogy woul dbe better worded like this:

Would you rather be hit with a basketball going 5 miles an hour or a tennis ball going 30?

[yodaofcoolness]

Just a thought...
It seems to me like different punches would do damage differently. Like the difference between being hit with a whip VS. being hit with a stick. For example, a punch with a lot of speed but not much mass behind it would do more damage to the surface of the skin and cutting. A punch with not as much speed and more mass might not do as much damage to the surface of the skin, but would have more potential for breaking bones or a knockout.

[nightcrawlerEX]

Force = mass X accelleration

so yes

[HanzoHattori]

What about the part of the fist you are hitting with? Will you not get more power per surface area by hitting with just the two "punching nuckles" rather than the whole fist?

less surface area you hit with more pressure ( per square inch)

[TigerDude]

Force = mass X accellerationThis equation does not apply to the "force" (how hard) of a punch. Force is the force muscles apply to the fist. Mass is the mass of the arm. Those two then determine how fast the fist accelerates, & therefore how fast the fist can go.

Captain K had it right about kinetic energy.

[Mark_Campbell]

Most people think that to have alot of power in your punch you need to sacrifice speed and bulk up your arms. In my oppinion this is not true

Here are my thoughts (May be wrong, But Worked for me)

Power = Speed

Think about it, What would you rather get hit by? a tennis ball going at a slow speed or one going at a high speed?

Therefore any hit you do, if it is fast enough is going to be hard. The Power of your punch is also effected by the force behind the target. So if you are doing a punch and you are verry muscular then the punch will probably be verry hard. But you are losing alot of power just by hitting with your arm. You need to put your whole hip into it and use your whole body behind the punch (without leaning foward too much) use your body like a corkscrew and twist while pushing the shoulder doing the punch foward while pulling the other shoulder backward.

Weight training can affect your punching but there are differences in types of strengths gained by weight training.

You have both Fast and Slow twich muscle fibres. By training slow twich muscles you are gaining Strength for slow movements. By training the fast twich fibres you are gaining strength for fast movements (punching).

Therefore by training your fast twich muscle fibres you are gaining strength for fast movements like punching.

Power = Strength & Speed

By combining a good technique and the right type of weight training you can greatly increase your punching power and speed.

There are 3 stages of a punch (My Thoughts)

1. The throwing of the punch (The movement of the body and the punch moving toward the target)

2. The inch Power (Where your arm is qalmost fully extended)

3. The Follow Through (Pushing Through the target for extra power)

In My oppinion the best time for a punch to make contact is during the second stage (when the arm is almost fully extended) beacuse this is the stage of the punch when the most resistance is requred to stop the punch (From the Bag or Enemy) and the least force is required by you to complete the punch. This is also the time of the punch when the most power is in the punch.

Thanx,
NightcrawlerEX

P.S. Please Feel free to discredit my oppinons or make any corrections. I was self taught with my punches and these things i mentioned above helped me to increase my punching power by at least double.


Physics leans into what you have said, theres a simple formula

F=ma

force (power as you have it)= mass (how much you weigh and how much of that your putting into it) x Accelaration (different from speed)

constant speed is different from constant accelaration, you attain accelaration by relaxing the smaller muscles in your arm and shoulder and accelarate the punch,then tense them and breathe out sharply( something which tenses the abdomen which if you have been twisting into the movement focuses the twist) at the right moment to focus the whole effort and give the technique a big boost in accelaration


Im not criticising at all in fact i agree, but i think it will be easier to understand the physics behind the technique with this added in

[yodaofcoolness]

This equation does not apply to the "force" (how hard) of a punch. Force is the force muscles apply to the fist. Mass is the mass of the arm. Those two then determine how fast the fist accelerates, & therefore how fast the fist can go.

Captain K had it right about kinetic energy.
More than just the arm is involved in the mass behind a punch.

[EDIT] - TigerDude, I see what your saying. Nevermind.

[yodaofcoolness]

Force = Mass x Accl.

So if my fist slows down a little right before impact, then I would be hitting with negative Accl. and therefore negative force... like less than zero?

Also if a car is going a constant speed, 90mph, then its Accl is zero right?

Isn't inertia what should be considered rather than force?

[nightcrawlerEX]

There is so much physics that can be applied.

Basically what im saying is

The power of your punch is strengthened by the force (weight) behind the punch and how past the punch is going.

For example...

You wouldent want to get hit by a car going 100km/h

You wouldent want to get hit by a truck going 50km/h

BUT YOU WOULD NOT want to get hit by a truck going 100km/h

P.S. This is just a rough example

P.P.S.

This is an old thread, plz read the updated article (Punching Power V2.0) and the comments on that. Everything said so far has already been covered

[yodaofcoolness]

Punching Power V2.0

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46659&highlight=power+punching

[Big red]

Just look at Bruce Lee. Comparatively speaking, his arms were not huge, yet he could send a man flying back because of his accuracy and transfer of energy. Just like an elastic band, he could put his entire body into every technique he did, and (here comes the elastic band part) could release, and snap the technique just at the right moment. Without pulling back the elastic band, there's no power, but if you pull it back too much, it will break, or you will end up hitting your own thumb. Well, there's my two cents.

[Big red]

Sorry, me again. Ok. One can talk about physics in punching, and physics in martial arts in general. But, isn't that taking the "art" out of martial art? Is it now becoming "martial science and physics?" I don't know, that's just my opinion.

[Sonshu]

You could argue a punch is a punch and through understanding why and how we do things (science can explain just about everything) and by utalising it then you can improve what you do and also what you teach others.

So hence the techniques they learn are better and of more use. It is the art part that has watered down so many arts to less effective forms of what they once were.

It is a japanese term that added the art to martial arts from I believe feudal japanese era's. Back then stuff had to work.

[cloudz]

when sitting, sit
when walking, walk
when punching, oh I forget now..

:)

[Shrukin89]

Sorry, me again. Ok. One can talk about physics in punching, and physics in martial arts in general. But, isn't that taking the "art" out of martial art? Is it now becoming "martial science and physics?" I don't know, that's just my opinion.

Martial Arts has a lot behind not only the art, but the applications provided for the art.

There's physics into anything that moves, and that requires energy.
Or of when energy is released.

Ex: You need an amount of energy that would let you be able to move of what's required.

Umm my theory on combining these physics and sciences together with Martial Arts. People doing Martial Arts would be phonomenal in how they would be able to perform and with efficiency. Getting down to the most detailed factors in how to be able to improve.

Welcome to MAP too :)

[elnyka]

There is an interesting book regarding Bruce's straight lead technique titled Straight Lead: The Core of Bruce Lee's Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do by Teri Tom (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0804836302/sr=8-1/qid=1147962599/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-3337918-2096959?%5Fencoding=UTF8). The books has excellent explanations on the technique and as of how Bruce Lee (or any practitioner of the straight lead, like boxers of old) would transfer his body weight behind the punch. The principles are not that different from boxing as far as I can see.

I really recommend this book, as it is an interesting read on itself.

[koto_ryu]

There is an interesting book regarding Bruce's straight lead technique titled Straight Lead: The Core of Bruce Lee's Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do by Teri Tom (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0804836302/sr=8-1/qid=1147962599/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-3337918-2096959?%5Fencoding=UTF8). The books has excellent explanations on the technique and as of how Bruce Lee (or any practitioner of the straight lead, like boxers of old) would transfer his body weight behind the punch. The principles are not that different from boxing as far as I can see.

I really recommend this book, as it is an interesting read on itself.

The principles aren't that different because Bruce Lee stole a lot from boxing itself. It all boils down to basic principles no matter what art you practice, I covered that in my own power punching article for Bullshido.

[Gary]

It's nice to see all the equations flying around, although they're pretty redundant. A slap is fast and the mass is the same as a punch, but I know which I'd use if I wanted to knock someone out. All these equations work at the point of impact, not after. There's a good reason why you're told not to stop a punch when it connects.

The power comes from a constant application of force from the muscles throughout the punch, not just at the first touch.

[Sonshu]

It's nice to see all the equations flying around, although they're pretty redundant. A slap is fast and the mass is the same as a punch, but I know which I'd use if I wanted to knock someone out. All these equations work at the point of impact, not after. There's a good reason why you're told not to stop a punch when it connects.

The power comes from a constant application of force from the muscles throughout the punch, not just at the first touch.

I would be stunned if anyone taught any different? I doubt they do it still does not mean they can deliver it when the chips are down - most arts can hit well (judo etc not included) but its the delviery of the technique for real which sucks most often.

[xen]

when sitting, sit
when walking, walk
when punching, oh I forget now..

:)

:D

i think i've remembered...

....when punching, make sure you have your slide rule and your list of essential formulae to hand, measure the distance between yourself and your potential target, make sure you are standing at an elevation which means you are assisted by gravity, check for the negative effects of any cross-winds and factor them into the original equations, take a deep breath, get ready and ...

oh, he's *gone/floored me :confused:

*delete as applicable.

just train as much as you need, in a way that gets results and smack 'em as hard as you can.

simplicity is the key to truth

:cool:

[Reakt]

Use your Triceps, not your Biceps. That is all.

[Ma Bu]

So, the most important thing in delivering a good punch is correct technique, proper footwork with efficient kinetical energy transfer, and during all that, complete bodily relaxation. It's like Bruce Lee once or on several times stated, that compete relaxation is the key to more powerful punching. Each punch should end with a snap several inches behind the target's surface. By a snap, it is meant a slight but powerful whipping motion and pulling back the limb to your guard, be it a kick or a punch. Once in a very famous documentary Bruce also said that a good punch is kind of like a mace, going straight or with a slight circular, angular motion IN to the target and whipping back to the original on-guard position. That ofcourse implies that I'm an absolute Bruce Lee fan and a jeet kune do nut. I believe Bruce was right... :cool:

[Sonshu]

I just hit people and they seem hurt.

[Wilson]

Think about it, What would you rather get hit by? a tennis ball going at a slow speed or one going at a high speed?

this confuses me, to me the tennis ball represent a small person, now i would rather get hit by a slow going tennis ball. However what would you rather get hit by a slow movie bowling ball or a fast moving tennis ball, i think i would choose the tennis ball. The bowling ball represent a big person. what would you rather get hit by a slow big guy or a small fast person, i would choose small fast person but idk

[nightcrawlerEX]

this confuses me, to me the tennis ball represent a small person, now i would rather get hit by a slow going tennis ball. However what would you rather get hit by a slow movie bowling ball or a fast moving tennis ball, i think i would choose the tennis ball. The bowling ball represent a big person. what would you rather get hit by a slow big guy or a small fast person, i would choose small fast person but idk

Its just simply meant to mean that things going faster hurt more.

[neb]

Its just simply meant to mean that things going faster hurt more.

Except sex :D

[Shrukin89]

Except sex :D

Hey watch it, you may stab someone with that.... *snigger* :D

[Paaaatrik]

Speed = Not necesserely(sp?) power. Jab is quickest boxing punch. And it's not hard..
Kinetic linking = Power!

[Emil]

Speed = Not necesserely(sp?) power. Jab is quickest boxing punch. And it's not hard..

That is mainly due to body mechanics and mass

[Paaaatrik]

That is mainly due to body mechanics and mass

Well if you lean into it, it's no longer a jab.

[Emil]

Well if you lean into it, it's no longer a jab.

I didn't necessarily mean leaning into it

[Yatezy]

Thought id join in!

Speed is definately a plus in a punch as the more speed generated the power there will be, but it also depends on the type of punch. (im probably opening another can of worms here :D ) i think we're generally talking a bout a straight punch like a jab or crosss. But there are punches were speed will not effect the quality of the punch so much.

Just say your going for a hook to the body and the opponent is up against the ropes or in the corner (just on about boxing in a ring) then you could throw a quick snapper hook to the body from the normal boxing stance but from what ive been trained to do, pushing up against them (mainly to stop them from moving out of position), widening your stance so your in a firm position and dipping to either side whilst getting the correct twist in hips and shoulders will produce a powerful punch.

Feel free to comet and critise but go easy, my first proper post! :)

[Paaaatrik]

Well if you don't put anything behind the speed, it's not gonna ba hard anyways..

[Yatezy]

It can be, you can get a moderately hard punch from speed alone but instead of it pushing you back from the power of it, its more like a stinging punch

if that makes sense

[Giles Wiley]

Hi Nightcrawler
You are on the right track. Speed is important but don't forget that accuracy, body alignment and angle of the punch are crucial. I've been studying power punching for the last decade and I have some great resistance training exercises designed specifically for power punching there are some free downloads on my site www.gileswiley.com. Check under videos.
I'll post a couple of articles with training tips this week for all that are interested.
Yours in peak performance
Giles Wiley
www.kocoach.com

[Paaaatrik]

Some proof, that you punch harder would be good aswell.
If you haven't measured before and after, how do you know it works?

[Blitzfaust]

I've been told that you get more power out of a punch by twisting your fist before you make contact, this assuming your fists are by your wairst with the knuckles facing the ground. I find it works well, but how does this work when your in sparring position with your fists up to protect your face?

[PDTBuktiNegara]

I've been told that you get more power out of a punch by twisting your fist before you make contact, this assuming your fists are by your wairst with the knuckles facing the ground. I find it works well, but how does this work when your in sparring position with your fists up to protect your face?


Strength of punching matters not nearly as much as the placement of the punch that you deliver. focus and intent.

[wudangfajing]

What are you actually doing when you punch?

What is actually the driving force in the arm alone?

What is the structure of a punch?

What portion of the torso can be added to give more power?

What direction is your hip traveling in relation to the punch?

These are just the beginning questions you should be focusing on to develop a method that will develop more power.

Ultimatly they define the one inch punch. :)

No you do not hit with more force when using just two knucks.
Still most important thing about hitting is making contact so speed is nice but contact an focus in to the spine of opponent is important.
Forget where i read it but they say of the best fighter in the world they get hit 80 Percent of the time or maybe was 80 percent land unsure forgot.