Pagan Parenting

[Athleng Nordic]

I just had a thought catch me from the blind side. Today I put in a Veggie Tale video that’s all Christian based. That’s when it hit me I’m feeding my daughter Christian dogma when my wife and I have agreed to be even in the dogma we teach. I’m a Teutonic Pagan and would rather stay away from that dogma altogether. She enjoys the shows and the songs and I want her to be happy. Anyone else have this dilemma? Anyone know of good children videos that have a non-christian based moral message? Any other MAP members in this kind of situtation? Are you in or out of the “broom” closet as they say? What have you done to resolve issues?



During the holidays we use the teutonic advent and celebrate Yule. Yes we do have a tree, that’s pagan, and we have santa, that’s also pagan.

[wrydolphin]

I used to have a few Pagan resources from when I did an ethnographic study on Texas neo-paganism. Some of the stuff they had was for kids. I will see if I can find it or any of my old sources.

[Athleng Nordic]

I used to have a few Pagan resources from when I did an ethnographic study on Texas neo-paganism. Some of the stuff they had was for kids. I will see if I can find it or any of my old sources.

Thank you.

[tekkengod]

you know that happened a while back with my sis, my sister was watching it and the hair brush song was kinda catchy so i watched it with her until i saw the lil jesus birth act thing i raised an eyebrow so i flipped around the case and i saw the word christian so i ejected it and did away with it, i asked her why she was watching this and {i'll never forget this} she looked at me and said "Jesus loves you" so i slapped the jesus right out of her {needless to say i got grounded for hitting her} but it was worth it. The neighbor got her tape back with a nasty message attached after my dad saw what it was.

[Athleng Nordic]

I can't say I condone your actions. Violence will always draw violence. Save it for the mat and the ring. Wanting to not shove christianity down a young throat I can condone. Just be peaceful about it. Remember there is a time and place for violent actions.

[tekkengod]

well it wasn't like a WHACK it was just a semi-aggitated slap between brother and sister. bear in mind shes 8 so i certianly didn't wail on her, but i got in trouble none the less.

[Strafio]

You fought with your sister for being a Christian?
I thought it was the religious types who were supposed horribly intolerant of other people's beliefs? :confused:

[tekkengod]

You fought with your sister for being a Christian?
I thought it was the religious types who were supposed horribly intolerant of other people's beliefs? :confused:

No, shes not a christian, shes 8, she dosen't know any better I slapped her for trying to tell me about it and because it was just generally pissing me off. and my Dad told off the neighbor in less than kind words for trying to quietly press it on his daughter.

[Strafio]

I guess you'd heard enough "Jesus loves you" in your time. :D
So how long ago was that?
What does she believe in now?

[wrydolphin]

I am having the devil's own time finding the resources I used to use. I know I still get a catalog every now and again and that I have seen stuff in that, but I can't remember the name. I did look on Amazon, and you can actually find stuff there. And you might try www.northernsun.com they usually have some decent things.

Sorry I wasn't has helpful as I had hoped. If I ever find that catalog, I will PM you.

[Athleng Nordic]

I am having the devil's own time finding the resources I used to use. I know I still get a catalog every now and again and that I have seen stuff in that, but I can't remember the name. I did look on Amazon, and you can actually find stuff there. And you might try www.northernsun.com (http://www.northernsun.com/) they usually have some decent things.

Sorry I wasn't has helpful as I had hoped. If I ever find that catalog, I will PM you.

Thanks, I'll look at the link and get back to the thread. Right now I'm gonna "steal my daughter for a daddy-daughter time meal at a local haunt.

Cheers all.

[tekkengod]

I guess you'd heard enough "Jesus loves you" in your time. :D
So how long ago was that?
What does she believe in now?

To be honest, YES i've heard enough of that, especially from people you'd simply rather not hear it from, ya know its like an ill placed lecture!!!
that was about 10 months ago i suppose. Now i think shes an agnostic. shes 8, shes got better things to do

[wrydolphin]

Tekken,
Jesus loves you. ;)

I get tired of the "Have you found Jesus?" crowd. I always tell them that since Jesus is the son of God and all that, maybe he's not lost... maybe he's just avoiding them. Somehow they never think that is as funny as I do. :D

[tekkengod]

Tekken,
Jesus loves you. ;)

I get tired of the "Have you found Jesus?" crowd. I always tell them that since Jesus is the son of God and all that, maybe he's not lost... maybe he's just avoiding them. Somehow they never think that is as funny as I do. :D


SLAP!!!

I got a bumper sticker from the george carlin website
"I found Jesus, hes in the trunk"

Priceless. :D

[wrydolphin]

OW!

I found a T-shirt that reads, "I found Jesus, he was under the couch the whole time."

But my favorite t-shirt was the Hellfire and Dalmations one, A bunch of dalmations in church with the minister dalmation intoning, "And the Lord said, bad dog, no, no!" :D

[Athleng Nordic]

OW!

I found a T-shirt that reads, "I found Jesus, he was under the couch the whole time."

But my favorite t-shirt was the Hellfire and Dalmations one, A bunch of dalmations in church with the minister dalmation intoning, "And the Lord said, bad dog, no, no!" :D

Hehe! I have shirt that says "My dragon will eat your savior"! :D

[tekkengod]

OW!

I found a T-shirt that reads, "I found Jesus, he was under the couch the whole time."

But my favorite t-shirt was the Hellfire and Dalmations one, A bunch of dalmations in church with the minister dalmation intoning, "And the Lord said, bad dog, no, no!" :D

on what site? theres a few pretty good sites for atheistic apparel.

[Davey Bones]

Hehe! I have shirt that says "My dragon will eat your savior"! :D

I'm a DnD geek, so my fave is:

"Jesus Saves!..."










"And takes half damage!"

[justinksw]

on what site? theres a few pretty good sites for atheistic apparel.
Check out cafepress (http://www.cafepress.com) and zazzle (http://www.zazzle.com) for apparel to your liking. You can search by subject on there. VERY nice selections on those.

[iamraisen]

I'm a DnD geek, so my fave is:

"Jesus Saves!..."










"And takes half damage!"

LOL that just made my day. wherver you are and whatever you do there is always a DnD player amongst the ranks.

[wrydolphin]

Tekken, The northernsun link I gave earlier had that one. Can't remember if I found it under humor or religion and spirituality. :D

[tekkengod]

good links people, good links...

Gangrel that quote made the morning! half damage! HA!
{i keep finding myself trying to call him BKG still!!}

[Athleng Nordic]

I'm a DnD geek, so my fave is:

"Jesus Saves!..."

"And takes half damage!"

LMAO I'm an old gamer from the very biginning. I do my own thing now but the old box set is still near and dear to me. Game On!!!!

[wrydolphin]

Was thinking about you and did some more searches, came up with a litte bit.
Books:
http://paganinstitute.org/c-kids_bibliography.html
http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/6KV5GPQM79OS/103-3999546-6233455?%5Fencoding=UTF8
http://www.technomom.com/home/paganparents.shtml
Movies:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/3SX0ZMHWBHMWR/103-3999546-6233455?%5Fencoding=UTF8

There seems to be a pretty big derth of information about raising children in a pagan religion.

[Capt Ann]

I just had a thought catch me from the blind side. Today I put in a Veggie Tale video that’s all Christian based. That’s when it hit me I’m feeding my daughter Christian dogma when my wife and I have agreed to be even in the dogma we teach. I’m a Teutonic Pagan and would rather stay away from that dogma altogether. She enjoys the shows and the songs and I want her to be happy. Anyone else have this dilemma? Anyone know of good children videos that have a non-christian based moral message?
Nordic, in answer to your original question, there is a very good children's video called "Choices Count" (available through Amazon here (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1571321152/qid%3D1135704555/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/002-5229154-7024848)). It is put out by the non-profit Character Counts Coalition, a coalition of nonprofit civic and govt. groups that include the religious, non-religious, and irreligious. The video promotes 'six pillars of character', including respect, citizenship, responsibility, fairness, caring, and trustworthiness, in song and story, from a totally non-sectarian perspective. The video is for children ages 2 through 10, and includes clips from Wishbone, Bananas in Pajamas, The Big Comfy Couch, and other childrens groups and performers. The songs are catchy and the lessons good.

As far as the question you didn't ask, I do have a two thoughts for you to consider. First, 'VeggieTales' is about the most innocuous and least overtly 'Christian' of all the 'Christian' videos I can think of. They have no dogmatic content, and most have very little doctrinal/philosophical content (maybe a single 'punchline' in a halfhour story). Some of them (the "Silly Songs" Collections, for instance) have no Christian content whatsoever--they're just plain old-fashioned fun. About the most 'Christian' part of the video series, they will introduce your daughter, at a very surface level, to a few Bible stories. Many Christians I know even complain about these, because unless you already knew the story, you might not even recognize it as such, because of the great 'artistic license' taken. They are interesting, encouraging, and quite frankly, just plain 'fun', and I wouldn't think you'd have to worry about your daughter accidentally 'catching' Christianity from them.

Second, I am just curious about how you as a parent feel about this. I understand you would want to raise your daughter to believe as you do, however, do you think you might eventually drive her towards a particular viewpoint just by 'hiding' it from her (kind of like the kids who take up smoking to rebel against their parents who are so deadset against it)? Since Christianity is so embedded in parts of our culture (history, literature, legal debates, understanding current events and parts of the political scene), how do you educate her about it, without presenting anything pro-or-con?

I think from past discussions on this forum, I've made no secret about where I stand in my personal beliefs about Christianity. I am, however, interested in understanding your thoughts as a parent about these things.

[Athleng Nordic]

Capt. Ann



Okay let's get this party started right now... Blah, blah, blah



As far as the videos are concerned I'll agree with you to a point. They are rather mild in the dogma, but a couple are as you've pointed are bible based stories. One of the stories on one of the videos is about St. Valentine and how he brought “The Word of God” to the Druids (Pagans). My thoughts ran rampant once that thought hit me the other day. Thoughts run faster than fingers I'm afraid. Couldn't get the thoughts out the way they should have been.



I'm not afraid of Lily catching "Christianity" she goes to a church’s pre-school. We teach open thought to her, and let her make decisions for herself. However she’s impressionable and I can’t supervise what she’s seeing and doing 24/7. I'm more afraid of the subtle messages in movies and videos that are “pounding the point” to children and adults that if you’re not a Christian you’re a bad person and wrong. Even the Republicans are doing this by collaborating with the RR. We are a nation based on religious freedom and I’m worried I’m going to part of a public roasting ala Joan of Arc.



I personally prefer the idea of “Ideas” and freedom of thought and choice. Let people decide for themselves what they wish to believe. I say have faith or belief of some sort, just have faith or belief in something. Sciencitology (spelling?) is the belief of Alien visitation from the birth of mankind. That’s a belief and I can respect it. I can respect the idea of Christianity as well; I just don’t want it crammed down my daughter’s throat.

[aikiMac]

I'm not afraid of Lily catching "Christianity" she goes to a church’s pre-school. We teach open thought to her, and let her make decisions for herself. However she’s impressionable and I can’t supervise what she’s seeing and doing 24/7. I'm more afraid of the subtle messages in movies and videos that are “pounding the point” to children and adults that if you’re not a Christian you’re a bad person and wrong. Even the Republicans are doing this by collaborating with the RR. We are a nation based on religious freedom and I’m worried I’m going to part of a public roasting ala Joan of Arc.

"Veggie Tales" videos don't have the underlined part. If that's your fear, you're directing it at the wrong thing when you direct it at "Veggie Tales" videos.

I'd be more worried about confusing the poor girl, what with sending her to a Bible preschool but then saying, "No, you cannot watch Veggie Tales because the characters talk about the Bible in those videos!" What's with that??

[Athleng Nordic]

"Veggie Tales" videos don't have the underlined part. If that's your fear, you're directing it at the wrong thing when you direct it at "Veggie Tales" videos.

I'd be more worried about confusing the poor girl, what with sending her to a Bible preschool but then saying, "No, you cannot watch Veggie Tales because the characters talk about the Bible in those videos!" What's with that??

I don't not allow her to watch them. I had my thought and brought it to the forum for discussion. The school does not discuss the bible but it is in the middle of a church. That's not my query however. I'd like for her to have equal parts of bombardment in dogma. I want her to ask questions and form her own thoughts. All I see is christian based stuff. I also wanted to chat-it up with other pagan parents with christian spouses and roots who find themselves in the same dialiema.

[aikiMac]

Ahh, gotcha now.


Anyone know of good children videos that have a non-christian based moral message?
"Little Bill," on Nick Jr.
It's the only show I know of where the siblings always act like they love each other. I would want Little Bill's family to be my family too.

[KenpoDavid]

You fought with your sister for being a Christian?
I thought it was the religious types who were supposed horribly intolerant of other people's beliefs? :confused:

No, he slapped an 8 year old for watching a video that had some pro-Christian messages. What a man!

[KenpoDavid]

I just had a thought catch me from the blind side. Today I put in a Veggie Tale video that’s all Christian based. That’s when it hit me I’m feeding my daughter Christian dogma when my wife and I have agreed to be even in the dogma we teach. I’m a Teutonic Pagan and would rather stay away from that dogma altogether. She enjoys the shows and the songs and I want her to be happy. Anyone else have this dilemma? Anyone know of good children videos that have a non-christian based moral message? Any other MAP members in this kind of situtation? Are you in or out of the “broom” closet as they say? What have you done to resolve issues?



During the holidays we use the teutonic advent and celebrate Yule. Yes we do have a tree, that’s pagan, and we have santa, that’s also pagan.



mixed marriages are beset with many problems...

[Athleng Nordic]

mixed marriages are beset with many problems...

We've had many issues that we've had to overcome. However seeing as today, the 27th of December, is our 8th wedding anniversary I think we have made a good go at it. We still have things to work out but we keep things open and honest and the words flowing without hate and bile.

[Capt Ann]

Congratulations, Nordic!! Now get off the computer and go enjoy your anniversary!!! ;)

[aikiMac]

Congratulations, Nordic!! Now get off the computer and go enjoy your anniversary!!! ;)
^^^ Ya, that! (Next month we'll have our 10th. :) )

[Athleng Nordic]

I did, and we had fun. Dinner and the theatre. Flowers waiting at the table when we arrived, chocolates delivered with the desert menu, you know the things we "forget" to do all year. :D


Now back to our regularly scheduled thread.

wrydolphin

Those links are good, however the link to pagan videos is not correct. Why those movies are listed as pagan movies I'll never know. The Wizard of Oz is political Satire from the 1930's about FDR and his New Deal. The story itself dates to 1899.

Some of the others I'd question too. The books and other links are quite interesting and I'm working through them now.

[wrydolphin]

I didn't get a chance to go threw them all as well as I would have liked. As far as videos go, I am having problems finding anything overtly pagan in nature.

[Canaca Guanaca]

Think I'd be more concerned about leaving my kid with someone who'd smack an eight year old for saying something so innocent than having that child watch veggie tales...

[tekkengod]

i wouldn't ask nordic to leave his kids with me. but i certainly wouldn't ask him to leave them with a church either

[AZeitung]

Those links are good, however the link to pagan videos is not correct. Why those movies are listed as pagan movies I'll never know. The Wizard of Oz is political Satire from the 1930's about FDR and his New Deal. The story itself dates to 1899.

It's been a really long time since I've seen The Wizard of Oz. A really, really long time. But if I remember correctly, the movie was almost exactly like the book (which I read), and as you said, the book was written well before FDR was in office. I don't remember the movie all that well, but where was the part that was a satire about the New Deal?

[Ikken Hisatsu]

so you smacked a girl half your age? man, you are so tough. can i get your autograph?

[Gray]

so you smacked a girl half your age? man, you are so tough. can i get your autograph?
Hahahaha, you are always ripping on this guy, aren't you? :D

[Infrazael]

Nordic, you know any Pagan groups/organizations here in Washington?

If we ever get a Pacific Northwest MAP meetup I'd love to discuss some things with you. I'm curious to your Teutonic Pagan belief system.

Peace

[Gajah Silat]

Vegetarian Pagan :confused:

Softer meat but slightly tougher than Christian vegetarians :love: Just ask the lions!

[Athleng Nordic]

It's been a really long time since I've seen The Wizard of Oz. A really, really long time. But if I remember correctly, the movie was almost exactly like the book (which I read), and as you said, the book was written well before FDR was in office. I don't remember the movie all that well, but where was the part that was a satire about the New Deal?

I'm not sure either. In college we had to discuss the book and the movie so I remember it from then. I found this through Google:
http://www.otal.umd.edu/~vg/msf95/ms18/emerald.html

It talks about it.

Infrazael there are several groups around. PM me and we can discuss it.

[tekkengod]

Hahahaha, you are always ripping on this guy, aren't you? :D

haven't you noticed hes got nothing better to do.

[Judderman]

I have not been blessed with children yet, but I do recall my own upbringing.

I remember quite enjoying some of the Christian Tales from the Bible. War betrayal revenge and finally peace and getting on with every one. Then again I also remember reading a series of Norse Myths and Legends. War betrayal revenge and finally peace and getting on with every one.

This is my point, I wouldn't worry too much about the dogma of religion, as long as you can balance it out. As a parent surely you should be concerned that your child can make an informed decision about their life when the time comes and you have armed them with the tools to do so.

If a lesson is a good lesson, does it really matter who taught it?