Christianity and gays/pedophilia

[brahman]

i hear the media talk about the Catholic and how the church has blamed pedophilia on gays for years now and used it as a coverup because they dont know how to deal with the pedophilia.


is this true? the media tends to word things in such a way as to get as many peopl as possible to listen to them, even if the wording leads you to believe something ithat is not true. so i dont know what to believe.

is there anyone who can expand on this thought?

[Athleng Nordic]

What makes me wonder is with all the bashing of Gay men and women from the church; what are they really going to do with certian menbers of thier own clergy. Several have been ousted already with many more identified. All for having relations with boys. The Nunneries are known to have lesbians within there walls, and for having relations with the girls of the communities they serve. What's a church to do?

[tekkengod]

look the other way? no no of course not.

[Anvilfire]

The worst thing anyone can do is cover it up. Just because someone claim christianity does not mean they are above doing wrong. Many have brought a reproach upon the church by their actions. Now I have friends that are Atheist,Muslim and other choices and we all agree there in no account for human nature people are poeple and they will do wrong. :)

[tekkengod]

The worst thing anyone can do is cover it up. Just because someone claim christianity does not mean they are above doing wrong

so being homosexual is wrong? really? they've done SUCH a good job at covering things up in the past, especially them doing wrong. anyway, thats my 2 cents, if someone is a part of your staff member of your club, you don't kick them in the face when the crap hits the fan.

[Anvilfire]

so being homosexual is wrong? really? they've done SUCH a good job at covering things up in the past, especially them doing wrong. anyway, thats my 2 cents, if someone is a part of your staff member of your club, you don't kick them in the face when the crap hits the fan.
Not sure where your trying to go with this. First all I don't condone either .I do know homosexuals and I treat them as I would like to be treated. As for as a
pedophilia I don't have much compassion for because they are harming children I have three children and would kill anyone that would harm them.

[Kwajman]

Well I think before the church goes and throws stones they ought to clean up their own mess. I know gays and lesbians and they don't seem any different than anyone else other than who they choose to mess around with.

Regarding pedophilia. I have three sons, two are big enough to break you in two if you approached them in that way. Since my ex won't let me know whats going on in their lives right now I have to trust that she's looking out for the little one though. Who knows....

[jroe52]

Err, popes have had children... why can't other priests/pastors?

If we do what is natural, then maybe they will not do what is not natural (pedophillia)... (catholics may even argue gay clergy... but to many it is natural... unless its pedophillia)

why does pedophilia always remind me of "philadelphia", is it just coinsidence?

[Poogle]

Paedophilia in itself is not morally wrong.


Let me justify that statement before you click reply.


By paedophilia, I mean the sexual attraction to children. These people don't just wake up one day and think 'Ooh, I think I'd like to be attracted to children'. And you can't police people's thoughts and emotions. I'm sure a lot of people here have known someone who is sexually attracted to them, but did not return the feelings. Is that morally wrong? If person A wants to have sex with person B, but person B doesn't want to, that in itself isn't wrong. If person A forces person B to have sex, or takes photos or video of a sexual nature of person B without their consent, that is wrong. It's the actions that stem from that attraction that are wrong.

I think that the reason people are more inclined to condemn people who are unfortunate enough in this society to be attracted to children is that anything they do to act on those feelings is wrong. Unlike in the example above, you can't just let a child know your feelings and see waht they say, like you can with an adult. As soon as you know someone is a paedophile, they're already in the wrong, because in order for you to know about it, they must have been watching child porn, or done something else which is wrong as a result of their feelings (the only other way you'd know is if they told you, and they won't do that because of the stigma attached to it). Those who have the attraction to children but are morally sound, and thus would never act on those feelings, are the people you never get to hear about.

Of course, any action resulting from this attraction towards children is wrong, such as making or watching child porn, any sexual action involving a child, etc. And of course, I am not suggesting that society should condone paedophilia. It's potentially dangerous, but not morally wrong. Some people clearly are incapable of controlling themselves, and to make it 'ok' to be attracted to children in this society would put children at risk. In the same way I would say porn involving rape fantasies are a 'bad idea'.

On the other hand, there is nothing whatsoever morally wrong with homosexuality or bisexuality.

I would add that I consider morality to be subjective. People who believe in God or have specific religious beliefs usually disagree with me on that one, so your milage may vary.

[aikiwolfie]

Can someone point to these reports? I've never heard or read any statements from the Catholic church making such a claim. Child abuse is a problem that is far more reaching than the Catholic church.

I think people should spend less time pointing fingers and reading media reports and work on solving the problem. If you know it's happening to someone you know, report it to the Police.

[ininjai]

I just wanna say that just because you've heard or known of a church or religious person(s)/group that was hypocrytical or contradictory or even plain stupid, that doesn't mean that everyone else is. I can't stand it when people jack up people's view of the church as a whole.

oh, and by the way nobody is blinding anyone, I'll pray in school while you think in church, and God isn't an imaginary friend.

[aikiwolfie]

Paedophilia in itself is not morally wrong. ...I guess that depends on who you talk to. While we all have our own moral standards, morality is more broadly defined by social groups and society in general.

What actually constitutes peadophilia is also a matter which is still not completely agreed upon. There are schools of thought that say the attraction is enough for a diagnosis, while others think actions are required.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paedophilia

[Strafio]

The only thing I have against the attraction is that if you indulge it in fantasies then you could nurture it into actions. Otherwise I'd see it as more or less harmless.

[tekkengod]

I just wanna say that just because you've heard or known of a church or religious person(s)/group that was hypocrytical or contradictory or even plain stupid, that doesn't mean that everyone else is. I can't stand it when people jack up people's view of the church as a whole.

oh, and by the way nobody is blinding anyone, I'll pray in school while you think in church, and God isn't an imaginary friend.

it dosen't take 1, but when more than a few do it, then you're justified, you don't have to, it kills itself, "church" maybe isn't the word, but organized religion as a whole is very screwed up, smell the roses.

yes, people blind their children all the time.
ok, sure, you pray in my school, and i'll think in church, lets see which one works better. :)
And yes by definition god is an imaginary friend. anyway, not trying to jack the thread, just replying.

[Maverick]

Condemning homosexuals or any kind of deviant is religious idiocy as people cannot choose their sexuality, or indeed choose anything.

[CraigLeeJKD]

Paedophilia in itself is not morally wrong.


Let me justify that statement before you click reply.


By paedophilia, I mean the sexual attraction to children. These people don't just wake up one day and think 'Ooh, I think I'd like to be attracted to children'. And you can't police people's thoughts and emotions. I'm sure a lot of people here have known someone who is sexually attracted to them, but did not return the feelings. Is that morally wrong? If person A wants to have sex with person B, but person B doesn't want to, that in itself isn't wrong. If person A forces person B to have sex, or takes photos or video of a sexual nature of person B without their consent, that is wrong. It's the actions that stem from that attraction that are wrong.

I think that the reason people are more inclined to condemn people who are unfortunate enough in this society to be attracted to children is that anything they do to act on those feelings is wrong. Unlike in the example above, you can't just let a child know your feelings and see waht they say, like you can with an adult. As soon as you know someone is a paedophile, they're already in the wrong, because in order for you to know about it, they must have been watching child porn, or done something else which is wrong as a result of their feelings (the only other way you'd know is if they told you, and they won't do that because of the stigma attached to it). Those who have the attraction to children but are morally sound, and thus would never act on those feelings, are the people you never get to hear about.

Of course, any action resulting from this attraction towards children is wrong, such as making or watching child porn, any sexual action involving a child, etc. And of course, I am not suggesting that society should condone paedophilia. It's potentially dangerous, but not morally wrong. Some people clearly are incapable of controlling themselves, and to make it 'ok' to be attracted to children in this society would put children at risk. In the same way I would say porn involving rape fantasies are a 'bad idea'.

On the other hand, there is nothing whatsoever morally wrong with homosexuality or bisexuality.

I would add that I consider morality to be subjective. People who believe in God or have specific religious beliefs usually disagree with me on that one, so your milage may vary.


I admire you for saying that. I too am of the same opinion. As we are all part of nature, any feelings we have cannot be anything other than natural. However, for a paedophile to act upon these feelings is morally wrong as a child is too young to understand or consent, and such abuse should never be allowed.
As long as they don't do anything about it, how can we condemn them for having feelings they can't control? I bet there are people out there who are attracted to children (and don't do anything), who lead miserable lives because of their orientation.

The problem with a lot of people is that they hear the word Paedophile and their minds hit a sudden stop, in which they are unwilling to allow the thought process to continue any further other than 'this is sick and it is wrong'.

Perhaps with the majority of people attracted to children, it may stem from something deeper. Maybe genetics, perhaps events in their lives initiated it. It may not be any of these things, it could be just what it is.

I don't doubt that there will be people sitting read this who now have suspicions wether or not me and poogle are paedophiles ourselves. That does not bother me, as I've accepted ignorance as a disease that many are consumed by. I am actually straight and NOT attracted to children. But I also have the guts to look deeper at a situation and accept nature for what it is.

[Poogle]

I don't doubt that there will be people sitting read this who now have suspicions wether or not me and poogle are paedophiles ourselves. That does not bother me, as I've accepted ignorance as a disease that many are consumed by. I am actually straight and NOT attracted to children. But I also have the guts to look deeper at a situation and accept nature for what it is.

I might not be able to claim straightness, but I'm no paedophile... though I suppose it depends on what society considers to be a child. 'Child' includes anyone under 16 in Britain, in the context of sex. In some cultures the age of consent is 12. In the past it has been perfectly normal for girls to be married and treated as women at ages like 12 or 13, or even younger. I once knew a 17 year old guy who I thought was very attractive. Some people might say that anyone under 18 is a child, but I don't think that makes me a paedophile!

[Johnno]

I might not be able to claim straightness, but I'm no paedophile... though I suppose it depends on what society considers to be a child. 'Child' includes anyone under 16 in Britain, in the context of sex. In some cultures the age of consent is 12. In the past it has been perfectly normal for girls to be married and treated as women at ages like 12 or 13, or even younger. I once knew a 17 year old guy who I thought was very attractive. Some people might say that anyone under 18 is a child, but I don't think that makes me a paedophile!You raise some very good points. When we think of paedophiles it seems that we automatically tend to think of men who fantasise about or abuse very young children. But as you said, the age of consent in the UK is 16. For gay men, it has for years been 21 - although I think it may have been lowered in recent years. (Interestingly, for gay women there is no age of consent in the UK.)

It's the cases involving very small children which get the headlines and really shock us (naturally enough) but when we're talking close to the age of 16 then it's less clear-cut. Some 16 year olds are far less mature than some 15 year olds, but from a legal point of view they are no longer 'protected'. But the law has to draw a line somewhere.

It's interesting that the title of the thread links gays and paedophilia. That seems to be a common occurance. But I get the impression that paedophilia is actually less common amongst gays than amongst heterosexual men. (And virtually unknown amongst women.) Any thoughts on this?

[bcullen]

It's interesting that the title of the thread links gays and pedophilia. That seems to be a common occurrence. But I get the impression that pedophilia is actually less common amongst gays than amongst heterosexual men. (And virtually unknown amongst women.) Any thoughts on this?

This is the interesting part: Church propaganda has often paired homosexuals and pedophilias as one and the same which is not an accurate comparison. Pedophilias are attracted to children; gender is not an issue so it's easy to see how that could be misinterpreted. The churches stance was that homosexuality is a perversion, and all perversion comes from the same source, therefore, if you are a homosexual you are also into bestiality, children etc... In other words any perceived defect indicated you were somehow void of moral character and capable of any heinous act. A logical fallacy that is still very persistent.

Women pedophiles are not unknown but are far less frequent then men. This probably has more to do with men more aggressively acting on desires. I've noticed a subtle shift in acceptable behavior for women in society, being assertive and going after what you want is becoming less of a taboo; I wonder what effect this will have on the numbers? Maybe the occurrences of the desires are the same for both sexes but actually acting upon the desires is the mitigating factor

[Poogle]

I suspect there will be fewer 'serious' cases for the same reason that few men are raped by women. As for cases of non-rape incidents, well, who knows? We'll have to wait and see.