Sparring advice...

[Jack]

What to do against the competitor who's technique is superior and tends to get in very close and force you to move backwards?

On Sunday I will be having my first tournament which our club is organizing. There will be our Taekwondo dojang, Karateka, and Kickboxers. We are fighting on a small mat and to win you have to make the other step off of the mat three times. The Kickboxers are going to get in close and rush forwards, we know that already. I know I can circle around, but this is allowing them to basically control the range. What advice can you give me to possibly take the dominant role against a more aggressive opponent?

[Saz]

Every opponent I've fought has been 'superior' to me, it doesn't make them unbeatable or even better. This usually works for me at least.

When they rush forward at you, don't back up. Don't let them chase you round the mat. Stand your ground, and if possible, attack as they move in, then move out of their way. Keep moving constantly, switching legs, stances etc, so they never quite know where you're going to go. A good tip is to wait till them come in with a kick, push their leg away hard enough so their back/side is facing you, and attack. A kick here might be enough to force them off the mat.

Against the more agrressive opponent, give them as good as you get. It often shakes them up a bit if their opponent isn't afraid of them. Don't let them undermime you, or they'll try and walk all over you.

If you've gotta get them off the mat, try a series of combo's that will force them back, say no more than 3 moves that will make them have to retreat back to defend themselves; two strikes and a high kick/sweep for example.

Good luck Jack, and watch out for those kickboxers ;)

[ladyhawk]

I'm an aggresive fighter and tend to fight the battle on my opponent's side so I'm coming in to get up close and personal. If you can time things right...side step. If not stand your ground.
Good Luck and have fun.

[STASH]

Personally I would fight defensively, if they're gonna rush you, then just hang back, counter attack, wait for them to mess up and then go all out, get them in the middle of a combo. I took part in a similar tournement and this strategy worked for me, but thats just me.

Good luck

[uglyelk]

Jack,

Good luck in your tournament!

You've won already just by competing! :)

Are knees or elbows permitted? Full contact?Sweeps throws?Can you grab and hold limbs?

I've never heard of a competion to force the opponent off of the mat before. On the second thought I have, it's called sumo:D

I think this may be a fun event. I'm dead against moving backwards in combat.I think it's the begining of the end in the real world.:( It would seem that the format of this competion favours those who fight this way,JMHO. The folks going backwards all ready on their way off of the mat.

I study a style that is some times refered to as telephone booth fighting.:rolleyes: Most styles I have encountered that like it up close and personal,are very adept at closing the distance.

These folks also will not stay on the outside and let you take them apart with those TKD power kicks. We all know thats not a safe place to hang out when your faced with a great kicking style.

Perdictable, they expect a kick and you expect them to close the distance and punch knee and elbow. The will try to jam your kicks. This opens a few options.

1. you can try and catch them with a powerful kick when the enter
the zone, or as they attempt to pass thru it. (this is what they
expect and have trained for)

2. You can launch the attack first utilizing combinations of kicks
and punches, varry them don't be perdictable.Lead with a kick,
next attack start with a punch.

3. You can do the unexpected and beat them at their own game
close the distance and deliver a punch combination. If they
move back jump on them with a kick combo to drive them off
the mat.


Be relentless when attacking! Don't stop your attack until it suceeds.:woo:

Do not step back, step in slightly off of the centerline as your opponent crowds you. Let them run into your punches. This will help keep them on the outside were your skill with the kick will shine. The oponent who gets in close must be conviced to step back. Then drive them from the ring.



I kind of wish I was going with you:D. I love open tournaments, its were we learn the most .

Hope this helps, & good luck, I'm sure you will learn lots from your competion.

Laird

[CyCloNe]

This tourney sounds like a lorra fun :)

Having spent a lot of time training in Taekwondo before recently switching to kickboxing / freestyle I kinda have an insight into both.

Without doubt you are correct, the kickboxers will close you down, or at least try to. We train for this, working short explosive techniques to create openings and how to work tiny little unimportant openings into ones that can leave your vitals wide open.

Something I dont think has been mentioned is if the tourney is full contact, whether this is true or not and what protection is going to be worn could determine which techniques are going to be the most effective.

Aside from the kickboxers, dont underestimate the Karatekas. Problem here is that they tend to deliver just as much power as the kickboxers, but their style makes them much more unpredictable. They may choose to rush, may even choose to stay at distance and counter you, or even worse, they may choose to do both :eek:

If you are purely trained in TKD, then my advice is pretty much in line with the other guys here, whatever you do stay light and keep moving.

Something that they may disagree on of course, is my next bit of advice. Something the Koreans are superb at is fighting backwards. This of course depends hugely on how big the mat is, but if I were in the contest and had to use only TKD, I would simply let them come on, let them rush in, keep switching feet but keep moving backwards. Once you get almost to the edge throw a good jumping back kick aimed squarely. If you get the timing right your either going to connect and down them, or even better surprise them to make a move backwards. If you get them moving backwards then it becomes a case of using pushing kick techniques and if you generate the distance, use the fabled step side kick (aim it a little higher than usual to try and get them off balance, chest height as a minimum).

In essence (enter the cheese) bring the mountain to you, then when it comes nail it :)

If they havent fought TKD before, you may well end up surprising them with a backwards style. As you can see from the experienced fighters that have already posted here, fighting backwards is unheard of in other styles, so use it to your advantage.

On another note, the forum has recently created a sub forum specifically for sporting martial arts / freestyle, feel free to pop in anytime :)

Anyhow, good luck with the tourney and please let us know how you got on.

[Jack]

Thanks very much for the replies, guys.

I think I understand the rules better myself now. Its a semi-contact point spar, but if you step off of the mat three times you're disqualified. The kickboxers are going to be taking advantage of this by charing at opponents and forcing them off of the mat. We are allowed to sweep and throw yes. Problem with this, they're kickboxers, we're Taekwondo stylists, neither of us are very good with sweeps or throws, although we have learnt a few and we've been encouraged to use them - I'm not confident in my ability at sweeping in sparring, its never payed off before. No elbows or knees.

With that in mind, can any other pieces of advice be given? I'm going to copy them all down and remember them to use, so nothing will be wasted here!

[waya]

Have you gotten any training in 45 degree sliding kicks yet?

Rob

[LilBunnyRabbit]

We do quite a lot of training in defensive strikes (moving backwards) and also in aggressive blocking (stepping into a technique and blocking) both can throw people off quite well.

[Jack]

Unfortunately not, waya. I havn't heard the terminology anyway - perhaps if you explained the movement it will be one I am familiar with?

Cyclone, some good advice there but unfortunately the mat is very small. From standing square, two hops backwards and you're off the mat!

[waya]

I would either slide off target and strike, or set up the over agressive people with a light lead leg kick, and follow it with a faster rear leg shot before my first kick hit the ground.

Rob

[Andy Murray]

Hi Jack,

Feel free to ignore any/all of this.

You very rarely see anyone disqualified for leaving the area three times in these types of competition. Make sure you do not leave the area yourself, unless you feel you are up in points, and wish to avoid the desperate flurries of a losing opponent in the dying seconds of the match.

The last thing Kickboxers and Karateka will be expecting, is for a TKD person to know what to do with their hands. ( No offence )

Never throw single shot techniques. If you throw a kick, you will find yourself in reach of your opponents hands. Follow your kicks up with immediate combinations of hand techniques. Finish off your combination with a kick to regain safe distance once more.

eg. Lead leg sidekick to mid section, jab /cross as you land move 45 degrees left or right as suggested elsewhere and finish with a kick.

1/ Keep your hands up.

2/ Be first.

3/ Relax.

Good Luck.

Andy


p.s. Don't hop about on one leg cos the Karate guys will sweep you!

[waya]

ok, Stay in your fighting stance, then slide your body forward or backward at a 45 degree angle, if you move forward, hop off the rear foot and throw a rear leg roundhouse kick. If you move to the rear, throw a lead leg front or round kick to the body. this will at least slow your opponent and take them off guard because strikes into their rush aren't expected usually. Make sure to follow up on them, but do not over comit to anything. If you are real close to the edge of the amt, slide forward when they rush, then turn and throw fast kicks at them while moving forward. Then you change their position and run them off.
Find someone to work with until the tournament and practice defending against being rushed, then you know what works for you. Also, try using your legs to block and kick simultaneously. Block a round kick with your shin and counter with a kick from the same leg while it is still in the air.

Rob

[Jack]

Yes, I'm familiar with that technique. :)

Thank you all very much, I'll now add up all of this information and remember as much of it as possible. If you have anything else to add, feel free.

Thanks again!

[ladyhawk]

I don't have alot of patience for opponents that continually back away from me and I'm not chasing them down. I've scored points by grabbing my opponent's arm (my left grabbing their left)and pulling them in and across. Most of them are caught off guard, the distance is closed and it opens them up for a strike to the head, ribs, etc.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

You want to watch that, occasionally you'll come across one who's backing away purely to irritate you and make you do something like that.

[ladyhawk]

True, there's always that chance they are luring you in. The circumstances have to be right and you only get one chance to grab and strike because your opponent is aware of it after that.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Its almost always safer to react than to act.

[Melanie]

Isn't reaction always slower than action though?

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Nope. Reaction is just as fast, and has the benefit of working from a point. If someone's just thrown a technique there will be an opening somewhere to aim for, no matter how good they are. The natural reaction is to dodge or block and simultaneously aim for that opening. The most important part though is not to think about it.

[Darzeka]

I would say you should try to use a few throws (I haven't got much experience with karate or TKD but a few of my friends do Muay Thai).
Their stance is fairly unstable - lead foot having less weight on it - so if they want to close with you step in, grab a hand (either before they strike, as they strike or after you have blocked, all have different possibilities for throws) then try to move their balance - pull them forward, push them sideways or backwards. The stance they have makes it kinda hard for them to stay balanced so when they lift a foot kick it out from underneath them (trip them), they will either fall down or be in a bad stance ready for you to finish off.

Main thing with throws is to just understand what you are doing. Break their balance so they need to move their foot. If they hit the deck then it was a successful throw. Try to time your rush with their steps, get them between solid stances then push them over.

You are quite lucky in that there are no knees or elbows, this way the MT people will want to keep more distance than they would normally. When they do their snap kicks try to push their leg wide with yours - this will also serve to cause them to loose their balance.

Well this is just my thoughts on the subject which may or may not be useful to you as I learn a vastly different martial art. Just remeber that all you are trying to do is push or pull them off balance (You could also try this with a kick - slow it down then make the contact a push not a strike).

[newbielives]

If you are using taekwando versus a kickboxer. I would imagine the kickboxer blocking your kicks and coming in on a missed kick to get close and personal with hand to hand. His gaurd will be in your face and will probably cover almost the entire top half of his body while giving you low kicks to your legs and punching you at the same time. I would personally take advantage of trapping but in your case with your learnt style i would recommend moving around and doing kicking combinations while not letting him come close enough to use his punches. You are probably even with him on kicks but your hand to hand is probably weaker then his. Fight your taekwando style which is a distance fight and you will probably find your self fighting someone similar to what you are use too since he will probably fight you with kicks as well if you never give him the distance to come in.

to sum it up, try to make him fight the way you like to fight.

I dont know if this helps much good luck and hope you post your results after your competition.

[uglyelk]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ckdstudent
[B]Nope. The natural reaction is to dodge or block

--------------------------------------------------------------
nope the natural reaction is to flinch.sliding shots , blocking are not normaly natural reactions.

Laird

[LilBunnyRabbit]

By dodge I meant to include flinch, and after enough training you instinctively block as well as dodging, at least I find that I do, which has proved awkward when people are joking around.

[Jack]

Thanks all for the advice. The competition was fun although in my catagory both of the kickboxers were defeated since they were newbies. The real tough kickboxers were in the larger catagory so I didn't get to fight them.

Both of those kickboxers were knocked out by our more experienced TKD practicioners. So I pretty much only thought Taekwondo people. I had two matches, and I won both so I was the catagory's champion - hurrah! I still would have liked to face some decent opposition from other styles, but ohwell can't complain. Big gold trophy. :P

[Cooler]

Well done Jack :D

Cooler

[YODA]

Excellent - way to go Jacko :D

[Jack]

YODA! Where've you been lately!?! Ever since that incident on KF I havn't seen you around much, I'd like to keep in contact so keep posting here. :)

[YODA]

LOL!

I was advised by a "Sensei" on KF to lie low for a while after I upset the meglomaniac forum owner. When I returned they'd hacked my password, deleted my posts & demoted me - it's their loss.

I'll be here - or on my forum at www.forumco.com/koncepts/

[Melanie]

Sorry to hear about that Yoda....

....don't worry...we still love ya!

I look into the other forum now and then - still don't understand it though :(

[ladyhawk]

Congratulations Jack!
Ladyhawk

[Jack]

Thanks ladyhawk :)

Yep Yoda, Mr. Grandmaster showed us what you said. And btw I do know who the 'sensei' is. ;)

It all sounds dubios, good stories on both sides one might say. Anyway I'll be sure to keep in contact with you. :)

[Thomas Vince]

Well Jack as you probably know I don't give much credit to the competition "tag" sparring, but it does really improve reaction time without getting your head taken off. Some have mentioned circling and you mentioned that it allows them to control the fight. I wanted to give one analogy even if I am late in responding to your thoughts, I apologize I have been very busy.

Move at 45 degree angles right or left you will be in range as well as removing the target.

Punch a kicker and Kick a puncher. If you can watch a few of them warm up, they will usually practice ther best techniques.

Good luck Jack!