IT training

[Swoop]

Does anyone know if mcsa and a+ m+ are useful or is it a way of parting money from people?

[KenpoDavid]

That's a micro$oft certification, yes? I don't know abuot UK IT market, but in the US, MS certs are not as valuable as they once were. This is due to the rise in popularity of unix, linux, BEA and other open source systems for use in internet development. If yo have no certs now and are wndering what to train in, I would go to Sun or Oracle or similar for training in that world. I have MS certs before so I'm not just biased haha now re-training in Java and weblogic, hating it... but it's where the money is now.

if my employer wanted to pay for it I would take it, whatever it is.

David

[pgm316]

It must depend what IT career your looking for.

Cisco could be a good course if you want pure networking knowledge?

Or what about other software stuff, Dbase/ prog languages if your avoiding the general IT maint jobs?

[Wearing Grey]

It depends what field you are going into with the certs. If you are looking into networking, cisco is the way the go. If you are looking for Network Operating Systems, I would look at a RHCE or an RHCT.

A+ and N+ are nice to look at but other than that I would pick something else.

Best thing you can have though is a degree in the IS related field though. A BS in IS or related looks alot better than a few certs.

WG

[YODA]

MS Certs are VERY valuable - I wish I could afford one :(

[Swoop]

I had an interview at a place called Top-choice. It turned out they were a job agency. They basically said that if I paid a few thousand to do the courses they can guarantee me a job that pays about £25,000. It sounded a bit fishy so I told him to shove it. The interview was more like a sales pitch, he didn't ask me any questions and just tried to sell me some courses.

[Saz]

That does sound dodgy. Did you have to pay them the £3,000 to do the MSCE?
MSCE and the like are good and well respected qualifications. If you have one, you can find as much work as someone who has a Computing degree. Its a personal preference to the company whether they prefer Microsoft grad's or University grads.

Yoda, have you ever thought about asking work to pay for a course for you? We had a guy on our course who had no IT qualifcations, but had worked for HP for 25 years, and they paid for him to do a course. Its worth asking about.

[KenpoDavid]

good call Swoop.

a reputable placement agency is paid by the EMPLOYER and carefully selects their applicants.

[Bon]

KenpoDavid, you reckon the money's in Java?

How long is Java likely to last?

[xplasma]

Java will last for a long time. M$ is trying to kill it with C# but I have used both and C# sucks.

I have once met a M$CE and he talking about how UNIX is a DOS-based OS. And how no language can do what COBOL does. Since then I am lost all rescept for MSCE. I would never hire MSCE, I would look at it as a - nather then a +.

[WhiteWizard]

Java is a good language if a wee bit inefficient but it will continure to grow with time it is very popular at the moment and Sun put a fair bit of effort improving it comes with a great set of API's too which once you get used to them make it a very powerful language.

[Saz]

Originally posted by xplasma
I have once met a M$CE and he talking about how UNIX is a DOS-based OS

BWAHAHAHA!!! Sorry, thats just too funny!

Java will be a round for a long time, not only is it very popular, but its part of pretty much every first year comp sci student's curriculum, so everyone's learning it.

[KenpoDavid]

Java has come a long way... almost all the big e-commerce players use it.

how long does any language last? are you still making money writing COBOL, Bon LOL but I shouldn;t laugh I know lots of guys who are still maintining the same code they wrote in 1980. pathetic mo fos but they exist. I just look at job postings and its mostly java, some .NET, a little other stuff...

[hongkongfuey]

MS Certs are VERY valuable - I wish I could afford one


not sure if you are being sarcastic, but I got my MCSE for about £380!

1 book, with training CD rom for £30. £50 per exam for 7 exams. However, I was working with the technology, so had a test network (albeit with real users) to practice on. I think the exams are slightly more expensive (£70?) these days.

I would value a prospective employee with an MCSE, but only if they had real world experience of using it. I'd rather have someone with 2 years experience of W2K in a work environment than an MCSE with no real world experience. There are many out of work MCSE's out there in the UK at the moment.

If you are dealing with Windows 2000 / 2003 anyway, or can set up a test network at home, then buy a book or two and pay to sit the exams - it will do great things for your CV. I would not spend a lot of money on MCP courses. If you are not in the industry already then don't bother with the Microsoft route.

[Saz]

A friend of mine did his MCSE through work, it cost £3,000 for him to sit it. He did it through some distance learning school. I guess if you buy the stuff separately rather than from an organisation it works out cheaper.

[Bon]

Originally posted by xplasma
I have once met a M$CE and he talking about how UNIX is a DOS-based OS. And how no language can do what COBOL does. Since then I am lost all rescept for MSCE. I would never hire MSCE, I would look at it as a - nather then a +.

LOL, he must have been pulling your leg?

[WhiteWizard]

There is huge amounts of money to be made in legacy languages like COBOL FORTRAN ALGOL etc because nobody knows how to program in them anymore and lots of companies still have systems running on them

[KenpoDavid]

Originally posted by Kyokushin_girl
A friend of mine did his MCSE through work, it cost £3,000 for him to sit it. He did it through some distance learning school. I guess if you buy the stuff separately rather than from an organisation it works out cheaper.

all that money was for the training, not the certification itself. The tests are cheap, training is not.

[xplasma]

Originally posted by Bon
LOL, he must have been pulling your leg?

No, that what I thought when he said it because I laughed. When I realized he was serious and corrected me. Not liking me corrected by someone half his age he called be ignorant and left.

Some other assumusing things he said:

DOS is a programming language
Windows XP still runs on the DOS/9x platform not NT/2000
Windows in programmed in COBOL
No one programs an OS in C

[Bon]

:rolleyes:

[hongkongfuey]

I have once met a M$CE and he talking about how UNIX is a DOS-based OS. And how no language can do what COBOL does. Since then I am lost all rescept for MSCE. I would never hire MSCE, I would look at it as a - nather then a +.


I would not say it was a -, but it should be accompanied by relevant experience. It is also a Microsoft Certification in Networking, so in a way could excuse someone not having UNIX or programming understanding that was MCSE qualified.

It depends what you need - if you want someone that knows when UNIX / LINUX / Novell / W2K3 are appropriate, TCP/IP, routing, firewalls and the difference between C, C#, VB, Perl, PHP, COBOL etc, then an MCSE will only have a small part of the picture. If you want someone to maintain a Windows 2000 / MS Exchange domain then an MCSE *might* be right for the job.

I still think it is sad that there are no recognised independant IT qualifications that incorporate a wide variety of skills, but we have to make do with what is available.