Recognition of rank of a student whom takes a hiatus

[HapkidoScott]

My question is how does rank get recognized if a said individual discontinues training for x amount of time. I mean do you start them at white belt again or just let them retain their belt but not testing until their knowledge is up to par. Just curious for possible future reference. Also, kind of with this question what are the times when most people quit training if they do quit in your experiences. My instructor said that it seems most quit either after getting their yellow belt and brown belt (close to a BB). Again, just curious. Thank you, Scott

[Thomas]

My question is how does rank get recognized if a said individual discontinues training for x amount of time. I mean do you start them at white belt again or just let them retain their belt but not testing until their knowledge is up to par. Just curious for possible future reference.
I really think this needs to be done on a case by case basis personally. Usually when we get someone who holds a certain rank but hasn't trained in a while, we offer the choice: wear your rank and start the program from white belt (and be promoted as you demonstrate your proficiency at each level) or wear the white until you have regained the abilities you had. If they held rank in a different style, they can wear their rank but with the understanding that they are a "white" belt in our system until the demonstrate the required proficency.

Also, kind of with this question what are the times when most people quit training if they do quit in your experiences. My instructor said that it seems most quit either after getting their yellow belt and brown belt (close to a BB). Again, just curious. Thank you, Scott
Our Combat Hapkido program is fairly small (but growing) and we have good retention of students. Of the students who quit, most quit at or around yellow belt. Generally they join because the program offers a wide range of self defence done in a fairly practical manner. The problem is that very often this type of training can be painful and loads of hard work. Generally the students we attract and retain are adults who like the hard work (and the pain).

[TheMadhoose]

thats why in the UKTA and TAGB and most british groups there is a grading record book given to every student so they can have writen proof of what lecvel they have graded to .It doesnt say anywhere that a grade has an expiry date so why demote ppl who restart TKD?

[tel]

i got up to up to brown for with my kung fu club, i quit cos of club issue's (nothing bad). anyway went back after 3yrs and they let me keep my grade, just had to get to the level i once had

[Ren-shi-shin]

[I honestly mean no offense by this, I'm just trying to understand my students]: What made you use the word "whom" in the title? Sorry to be so off the topic....

[Thomas]

thats why in the UKTA and TAGB and most british groups there is a grading record book given to every student so they can have writen proof of what lecvel they have graded to .It doesnt say anywhere that a grade has an expiry date so why demote ppl who restart TKD?
One rationale is that "our students represent our teaching" and students should wear the color belt that they have earned and that they have (or can) demonstrate their competency at.

If a person earned a red belt and then dropped out for 5 years. When he comes back, his skills may not up to par. Wearing that rank which they no longer are the equivalent of can possible embarrass the parctitioner and even the school. Having them wear a white belt and being promoted as they demonstrate their abilities at each level. For schools who look at belts as "just a bookmark on the curriculum", this is fair becuase it helps ensure that everyone in class is wearing the appropriate ranks and therefore getting the appropriate training.

The other rationale is that you always keep whatever rank you have attained, regardless of how often or when the last time was that you trained.

Personally I like the first rationale but can appreciate the second in terms of black belts who may be older or had health problems... in my book, they are still black belts, maybe not practicing anymore.

[American HKD]

Greetings

It's very common for people to miss time and come back so to speak.

Your grade is your grade, however if your rusty you have to tune back up until you can advance again, or you can just stay where you are.

A BB is always a BB, just like a college diploma is not revoked after you forget all your studies.

[HapkidoScott]

Excellent points and I pretty much agree. I guess I just was curious because as Thomas and American HKD stated once you earn the rank.....I think that you just have to realize that in HKD once you quit training you start to lose the knowledge without the continuous practice. I honestly would not be satisfied learning from an instructor that had been out of practice for more than say a year or so. I believe they would lose a lot of the technique. Likewise for even us colored belts, hell I often draw a blank on things after only 3 or 4 days off.
Also the whom was for no particular reason, probably just poor english. Please excuse me as I have an Anthropology degree not English. :cool: Respectfully, Scott

[Thomas]

I generally find that adult Hapkido students who leave for a while and come back rusty usually have the maturity and confidence to realize that they are "behind" and usually get back up to speed very quickly.

My concern with belts is usually from people who join us from other styles and who want to wear their previously earned rank. Normally we don't have a problem with this (and we give them the choice, at least until they decide to test for rank with us). Most students who are wearing rank that they really don't seem capable of performing at either drop out or put on a white belt and train up.

[nj_howard]

A BB is always a BB, just like a college diploma is not
revoked after you forget all your studies.
Stuary, thank God for that part about the college diploma... otherwise, I'd be riding on the back of a garbage truck. :)

[Hapkidoin P]

I am of the mind that rank is earned and cannot be "taken back","lost","revoked" or anything else. If you have it,you have it.

Whether or not your technique is not up to par after a hiatus is not the point. You are either good,so-so,or outright bad no matter what is around your waist.

About the garbage truck :D ..around here the pay isn't so bad. I think they start out at around $25US an hour..and talk about job security! :rolleyes:

[Plato]

Great question. Personally, it's all the same to me. Whether I wear a white belt, color, or black belt - performance in a new system other than one's own determines the quality and understanding of technique. While I'm training, I don't look at my waist anyway.

However, I object to school instructors holding advanced students back for the purposes of making more money off of them unnecessarily.

Plato

[JimH]

I too feel a Martial artist who stops attending but later decides to return should do so at the rank acheived.

As said by others,knowledge learned is still retained,it just needs a review to bring it back to short term memory.

The physical abilities upon return are most times the concern, as a person remembers what they were able to do and they get frustrated that they are not still at that level,or they are sore and maybe feel more aches and pains,especially when their joints start getting twisted again,or the falls and rolls take their toll (lol).

We must give credit to those who return as they are an exception and they return with a deep want and desire to go further,manywho stop never return.

[Thomas]

I too feel a Martial artist who stops attending but later decides to return should do so at the rank acheived.

As said by others,knowledge learned is still retained,it just needs a review to bring it back to short term memory.

The physical abilities upon return are most times the concern, as a person remembers what they were able to do and they get frustrated that they are not still at that level,or they are sore and maybe feel more aches and pains,especially when their joints start getting twisted again,or the falls and rolls take their toll (lol).

We must give credit to those who return as they are an exception and they return with a deep want and desire to go further,manywho stop never return.
I agree. Sometimes though, a student wants to wear a white belt for a while so that they don't look like a really bad red belt or whatever. Letting them get back in shape without any pressure of trying to "look the grade" can be a good thing... and let them know how they are doing and whe they should strap on a different color.