What does TKD have that Hapkido doesn't?

[BSR]

Having studied both, it seems to me that, in Hapkido, you're getting just about everything that is offered in TKD (lots of kicks, punches, blocks, etc) and a whole lot more.

Now I only reached a yellow belt in TKD before quitting, and I'm currently only an orange belt in Hapkido, so obviously I'm not an expert in either art. But I wonder what would cause one to choose TKD over HKD if they had an equal opportunity to study both?

Let me put it another way, what, in TKD, would cause a Hapkidoist to want to train in it as well?

I certainly don't intend this to be a bashing thread against TKD. I'm simply curious as to what the differences might be. Maybe I'm oversimplifying what TKD has to offer.

[waya]

In my personal opinion nothing. But some TKD schools may have something unique to them that is worth studying.

[Thomas]

For me, my introduction to Hapkido came from my TKD instructor. We gradually moved from using some Hapkido in our class to incorporating a lot, including ranking through ICHF.

As for choosing TKD over Hapkido the most common reasons in my opinion are:
(1) There are a lot more TKD schools around than Hapkido ones and easier to find a TKD instructor than a Hapkido one.

(2) Quality of instructor - my TKD instructor is kind of martial artist I want to be, regardless of what he teaches... luckily he teaches TKD and Hapkido. I chose this style because of the instructor, not the style.

(3) As for stylistic differences, I really don't think it matters. I like the joint locks and strikes of Hapkido but I like the powerful kicks of TKD. I also like the poomsae of TKD. Hapkido adds nice circular movements and TKD adds good linear ones. In my opinion, I like training in both styles and using both.

[John_IHF]

From what I am learning how in my Hapkido school, we don't strike not with kicks or Punches. We learn how to kick ofcourse but we learn to kick to strengthen our defense. If we know what kick is comming at you by examining the body we can learn to defend against it. Like if you you have your right foot forward and ofcourse your left foot back and we are in an open stance to kick you will either have to use your left foot or you will step and do a steping/juming temple or step pivit and turn with your waist and do a spining heel kick with your right foot. Basic Stuff like that. I'm not intirely sure that Hapkido does have Taekwando kicks in them but I was told that Choi Young Sool learned from a friend of his about Taekyong Kicks before he went to Japan and Learned Daito-Ryu Aikijujutsu from Takeda Sokaku (Choi was a Servant but Takeda decided he would teach Choi Aikijujutsu while he was there after a couple of years serving him) In total Choi stayed under Takeda for 30 years or so. I'm not really sure if Choi Learned the kicks from Taekwando.

[Kwan Jang]

-If you are interested in the history of Hapkido, Dr. Scott Shaw is an excellent martial arts historian with a lot of work available on the net. He bypasses the politics and creative history well, and though he is a 7th dan in hapkido, he tells the story warts and all. Choi basically taught aiki-jujitsu, the next generation of instructors under him incorperated the more trad. Korean flavor to the art by incorperating things from tae kyon and the hwarang. Choi accepted this as part of the art, but never taught this himself. IMO, TKD offers a lot that is not traditionally found in hapkido. It is up to the individual if these are things that they want for their own training. Traditionally, hapkido has no forms of it's own (though some instructors have created some for their students or adoped them from TKD. Hapkido trad. has no sparring. (When I say traditionally; many instructors have incorperated these elements into the training). The Korean gov't has tried to make TKD more of a sport and Hapkido more of the combat art/system and restrict it's availability in many cases. I have reached master level in both systems and find that they do compliment each other well. In truth though, since going more MMA, I rarely teach hapkido anymore, except to my black belts who really want to learn it. I find that it's very dangerous to do many of the techniques under adrenal stress w/o risk of serious injury and if it's not in muscle memory under adrenaline, there is too good a chance of a student not being able to perform in high stress combat conditions.

[SoKKlab]

Originally posted by Kwan Jang
- In truth though, since going more MMA, I rarely teach hapkido anymore, except to my black belts who really want to learn it. I find that it's very dangerous to do many of the techniques under adrenal stress w/o risk of serious injury and if it's not in muscle memory under adrenaline, there is too good a chance of a student not being able to perform in high stress combat conditions.

I know that its taking this thread slightly off topic, but Kwan could you give some more information/ details about what you are alluding to with the above point(s)?

I understand what you are saying, but am very interested in hearing alot more about this particular POV and how you came to those conclusions?

What made you take the decision not to teach Hapkido with regards to the Adrenal stress/ muscle memory issues? was it general research or your own experiences?

Also, can you give any examples of specific techniques that would illustrate your points?

[BSR]

Originally posted by SoKKlab
I know that its taking this thread slightly off topic, but Kwan could you give some more information/ details about what you are alluding to with the above point(s)?

I understand what you are saying, but am very interested in hearing alot more about this particular POV and how you came to those conclusions?

What made you take the decision not to teach Hapkido with regards to the Adrenal stress/ muscle memory issues? was it general research or your own experiences?

Also, can you give any examples of specific techniques that would illustrate your points?

Yes, I'd be curious to hear that as well.

In almost any fighting situation there is going to be a rush of adrenaline for both parties.

If adrenaline cancels out muscle memory, then that would seemingly render most martial arts ineffective in a real combat situation. :confused:

[SoKKlab]

Originally posted by BSR
Yes, I'd be curious to hear that as well.

In almost any fighting situation there is going to be a rush of adrenaline for both parties.

If adrenaline cancels out muscle memory, then that would seemingly render most martial arts ineffective in a real combat situation. :confused:

Yep, the psychological/ physiological response aspects of any confrontation are the thing, not the techniques or the theories behind them.

[waya]

I agree, I'd like to hear them as well... I've never experienced these problems with the techniques myself.

[John_IHF]

ok well, You could activate certain things ( as in internal organ malfunctions or knock outs etc.. ) to happen because of the pressure point aplications but if you know how to control those types of things then you should have a problem teaching hapkido. The Adreno Glands usually pump under pressure and anger they don't just because you are doing hapkido. You don't need to be in A High adrenolin rush to be able to perform Hapkido. If anything you want to be as calm as possible so you don't use muscle power and so you can judge clearly and effectively. Muscle memory is what we rely on to be effective and we use Moo-shim (empty mind) to be able to more on reflex and instinct. There is a saying we have. The Most important thing to a moo-sa (Samurai/warrior) is his Kum(sword) and the most important thing to the kum is the blade and the most important thing to the blade is its temper. If the blade loses its temper then the blade gets dull and breaks. Same thing with us, If your temper is broken and you are inraged you till will not think clearly and become broken. Our Mind is the temper and Our Body is the Blade and our spirit is the sword. The way of Cooridinated power. Hapkido = The way to Harmony through mind and body Cooridination. (Hap= Harmony, Ki= Mind and Body Cooridination, Do= The way.)

[TheMachine]

I studied TKD for several years and am planning to try HKD. They are both good arts but TKD has one thing which makes it more appealing to the masses, the sport aspect. But nonetheless they are both good arts

[BSR]

Originally posted by TheMachine
the sport aspect.

That's actually one of the main things that keeps me disinterested in TKD.

It's why I lasted through only two classes of Judo. :D

[Kwan Jang]

-Apparently I was a bit unclear in my post. A lot of recent research has gone into the effects of adrenaline on the brain and body. Creation of tunnel vision, reduced fine motor skills, tendency for people to "freeze up", incresed muscular tension, ect. These are factors that a lot of MA's don't really consider in their training. Some of the leaders of this in the MA world are Peyton Quinn and Bill Kipp of RMCAT. They've got some good material on this subject. After working w/ them, I've changed a lot of my ideas of what is practical to teach beginners and intermediate students for self-defense. Many of the joint locks and manipulations popular in Hapkido (which for myself, I still enjoy and use) and some of the more "hardcore" combat techniques and combinations can't be safely practiced by less experienced students under adrenal stress conditions. If they don't practice these under adrenal stress conditions and embed this into their muscle memory, they are likely to "freeze" or at least be ineffective when they have a real-life encounter and experience adrenal stress. Therefore, I have chose to train them with simpler and safer counters from jujitsu and muay thai at these levels. When a martial artist reaches a higher level of experience and proficiency, they are much better prepared to pull this kind of stuff off. A good example is if you raise adrenaline levels in drills in training (ex. adrenal circle drills) and you are working on joint manipulations, odds are you are going to be calling for an ambulance a few times per class. (I hate having to dial 911, it disrupts the flow of the class, then there is all that missed class time as they have to recover,ect.). This in not an attack on Hapkido (I have a 5th dan in Hapkido, you don't get that far w/o a passion and love for the art.)

[SoKKlab]

Thanks for that Kwan,
Have had the same thoughts myself in the past, with reference to the realities of a 'street' confontation and Martial Arts Training (Across lots of systems) and have 'enjoyed' reading books by Geoff Thompson, Peyton Quinn etc on the subject.

[BSR]

The thing I love about Hapkido is the variety of techniques. I certainly don't feel at this point that I would be comfortable using a complicated joint technique on an assailant in a real life fighting situation, but I don't necessarily have to. There are plenty of simpler techniques, such as strikes, blocks, and kicks that I could use as well.

[John_IHF]

The Join Manipulations are not difficult though it takes time for it to seep into muscle memory. Hapkido takes alot of repitition and it does woork on the street very effectively

[SoKKlab]

Originally posted by John_IHF
The Join Manipulations are not difficult though it takes time for it to seep into muscle memory. Hapkido takes alot of repitition and it does woork on the street very effectively

Like Most Martial Arts Really. But I think that the point that Kwan was making, is that

1) the more complicated the technique, the more difficult it is to learn and then apply in a stressful situation and

2) Keeping it simple is the name of the game in a self-protection situation.

I really like Hapkido, I feel that it is a fantastic art, but I see the points that Kwan was alluding to.

[Thomas]

I personally like having the benefits of both styles and feel that they complement each other nicely...

TKD has:
(1) good linear strikes which are fast and powerful. (Big collection of kicks)
(2) good footwork and mobility
(3) a system which can be easily adapted for use in either sport or self defence

Hapkido has:
(1) excellent breakfalls... a must for anyone who is apt to fall down, get thrown, or swept.
(2) Excellent non-lethal and non-damaging techniques, including locks and self defence techniques. All of these can be escalated into varying levels of pain and/or damage
(3) a wonderful collection of kicking techniques... even more than TKD (which is famous for its variety)
(4) Great movement... circular and evasive

As for being difficult to apply joint locks and such in a stressful situation... I completely agree. They are veryu nice when they work, but you also have to have a backup plan if they fail... and for me, the backup is usually a quick TKD style strike.

[Jointlock]

Hey everybody new member here.

I have practiced both TKD and Hapkido and I have to say that both are effective with the right instructor and personality type.

But, traditional Tae Kwon Do was not designed as a complete martail art. It was designed to be taught to the Korean army as a martial art that could be taught easily to a group of people all at once. While Hapkido needs more personal training and hands on instruction. I'm not an expert on WTF sports tae kwon do and I don't care to be.

The kicks that we do are similar in both arts. Hapkido has a more diverse selection of kicks from low, supported and flying/jumping. We do not practice forms/hyung in our style of Hapkido. So, that's another thing I love about Tae kwon do.

As for teaching jointlocks to beginners I disagree that they should be avoided. Like anything else the technique should be learned to proficiency and then the stressful adrenaline training should be added. However I do see your point.

[Thomas]

Originally posted by Jointlock
Hey everybody new member here.

I have practiced both TKD and Hapkido and I have to say that both are effective with the right instructor and personality type.


As for teaching jointlocks to beginners I disagree that they should be avoided. Like anything else the technique should be learned to proficiency and then the stressful adrenaline training should be added. However I do see your point.

Nice to "meet" you! Nice series of posts by the way.
In the above quote, I completely agree with you. Instructor and individual are more important than style in my opinion.

We start joint lock training to beginners... it's important to feelt hem from day one and to practice applying them from day one. We do have to be careful and watch them.... which is why we team new stuydents up with senior students.

[hapkiyoosool]

Helllo everyone!

We are new here. My wife and I moved to the US recently from Korea where I grew up learning under one of Choi,Young-Sool's students. http://www.hapkiyoosool.com

I only have one comment. I have been studying Hapkiyoosool(Hapkido) all my life. I NEVER learn any flying kicks.

I think you will better understand Hapkido if you know this.

Attacks are taught in Hapkido for ONE specific reason. To learn how to defend against them. There are NO kicks in the Hapkido techniques. I am not political and don't like sugar coated talk about the art. Choi, Young-Sool learned kicks from TaeKyon to better understand how to defend against them, not to use them in technique. In all the pics, old 8mm movies, and stories in Korea I have seen or heard of GM Choi. I have NEVER seen him kick within a technique excpet to show you what NOT to do. He always said, "Keep both of your feet on the ground at all times." Other wise you cannot keep balance for both you and your attacker unless you are grounded properly.

We are having a seminar in FL during November about this. There is more info about Hapkiyoosool on our website.

[Thomas]

Nice to "meet" you and welcome to the board. It seems that the Hapkido forum is growing all of the time...

I also studied Hapkido in Korea, in Chungchongnam province under the International Hapkido Federation and tested for my 1st and 2nd dan there in Pyongtaek... all under the indirect supervision of GM Myong Jae-nam. (I also notice that on your website, GM Jang Young-shil on your website is wearing the same affiliation patch as I have worn and that is on my dan certificates... the IHF)

With no disrespect intended, it would appear that we both have studied different types of Hapkido because in the style I follow has lots of kicks. Granted, if you look at the Hapkido family tree, my GM is on a different branch... but GM Myung Kwang-shik is found on both... and his book is one of my primary references... especially the parts on kicks, including flying kicks. If your style doesn't have kicks... well, that just means that the style of Hapkido you learn/teach doesn't have kicks. The style I learned has kicks.

There are many types of Hapkido out there, and some are taught differently and may have different components. This doesn't mean any one of them is better or more "pure" than any other. I think, for myself anyway, that I would never avoid learning potentially useful skills regardless of whether or not my "base" style has it or not.

Hapkido Family Tree (with a nice photos of GM Myung Kwang-shik, GM Myong Jae-nam, GM Jang Young-shil, and Master Allen there):
http://www.hapkido-info.net/html/tree_seo__in-sun.html

[hapkiyoosool]

Thomas,

Sounds great! Our HQ is in Pyongtaek(Song Tan) too. Very close to a military base called Osan Air Base. We have a lot of American students on the base where we teach at the base gym during the week at lunch time and Saturday mornings.

I am originaly from Syracuse! Nice to meet you.
I left there at 7 yrs old though and went back about 10 years ago for a family reunion to see a smoking hole that is left. I was heart broken to see Syracuse falling apart.

I hope you have a great day.

We do teach kicks though, we just don't use any in the techniques. I haven't done any flying kicks though. I'll have to try that for fun. :D

[TigerAn1]

Hello. To me TKD seems a bit more recreational than Hapkido. A very good fitness and tournament activity- but I wouldn't want to rely on it in a street fight. At least not as a color belt. Hapkido is self defense- disable the attacker and escape. Not much flash and flair. The less the better. One can be effective in a self defense situation with a few weeks of training. So, if one wants to be in tournaments- go TKD. If one wants to learn self defense- go HKD. I am personally HKDin primarilt TKD dojang. Out of approximately 150 students of all ages, 10 are HKD. Out of that 10, 3 are over 40, 3 over 30, 2 late 20's, and 2 teens who are TKD Black Belts. Teens are not normally admitted to the HKD program unless they are advanced TKD students.

[Thomas]

In my experience, I find that to be on an individual school basis, rather than on an entire style basis... I've seen good and bad TKD schools and good and bad Hapkido schools...

[littlebird]

Only a fool says that he can't learn from another.
I study all styles and take what is useful.
In a way this is now called JKD, but it is much older than Bruce Lee.
I think the greatest wisdom comes when you realize that you will never stop learning. You must not stop learning!

As for adrenalin problems, I think most people's problem with their brains comes when they are not pumping enough oxygen up to it. Then they have lapses in their abilities.

[shadow warrior]

How do you determine what is useful??

What test criteria do you apply to decide what is useful??

There once was a man who inherited a house with a large back yard. When he took posession, he found a secret closet. In the closet he found a small diamond. A note which was wrapped around the gem and a spoon said " There are a ton more buried in the back yard. Use this spoon to dig them up."

After fifty years there were ten thousand holes in the backyard, all six inches deep. The man died broken hearted, never having found ONE SINGLE additional diamond!

Loose recounting of "shopping" in martial arts.

[Chris from CT]

Originally posted by shadow warrior
How do you determine what is useful??

...After fifty years there were ten thousand holes in the backyard, all six inches deep...


What a moral! "Thumbs up" for that one. Where did you hear that?

Take care.

[Disciple]

It shows that man to be a fool, not for digging, but for usuing the spoon, With the single diamond, he should have sold it, taken what money he had, and bought a small catapiller/ a shovel(depending on the tiome period), and dug with that then sifted the dirt. Merely b/c he dug with a spon would not have changed the fact if te diamonds were or were not there.

[evilkingston]

Only a fool says that he can't learn from another.
I study all styles and take what is useful.
In a way this is now called JKD, but it is much older than Bruce Lee.
I think the greatest wisdom comes when you realize that you will never stop learning. You must not stop learning!

i agree

on topic: i'm a huge hkd freak, but i picked up tkd because of the sparring-aspect + competition
ofcourse we spar in hkd, but not that much
in tkd we spar every training
i also discovered that where hkd is more an explosive sport (short rushes of energy), tkd is more aerobic (constantly moving/jumping/feet moving)

use everything
judge not

[tkdhkddave]

Taekwon-do gave me a good base on which to start hapkido from, as I was happy kicking and punching and had developed good body control,balance and flexibility which made learning some things a little easier, but I still had to "empty my cup" a bit, on the whole if I had to choose one or the other it would be hkd, in and ideal world I think they are both worth learning as they compliment each other well, but in my own opinion i would go for hapkido as it seems to cover more angles of combat.

[dutch80au]

ok, i've never actually studied hkd but am 1st dan tkd. reading the last few post alot of people seem to think that hkd would be better in a street self defence situation and thats ok, but, if a tkd student was to apply his or her techniques proplerly (which are mostly a wide variety of kicks and thus long distance) wouldn't they to be affective. there is no use saying any one style is better than the other, that depends on the situation, the student, etc. if a person is profficient in their style then self defence on the street should not be an issue.

so what i've think i've said is (and this is getting off thread a bit i think) any one style, wether its hkd or tkd is as good as the other if your dedicated and devoted enough to studying and mastering it.

[Thomas]

so what i've think i've said is (and this is getting off thread a bit i think) any one style, wether its hkd or tkd is as good as the other if your dedicated and devoted enough to studying and mastering it.


I would agree with you though that it really is the individual and that individual's training that makes a difference... much beyond the name of the style you practice.

[wild_pitch]

well i think you can say as an integrated system hapkido offers you more tools. what you do with those tools is up to you.

[Yudanja]

I'm new here so let me introduce myself. My name is Steve Hartsock. I have been studying Taekwon-Do (ITF) for almost 22 years.

The question was raised. Why would one choose TKD over Hapkido when Hapkido offers all of the kicks, strikes, etc. that Hapkido does PLUS all of the joint-locks, takedowns, throws, etc...

22 years ago, it was very difficult finding a Hapkido dojang. Heck, it was even difficult finding a martial-arts school in the area where i lived.

There were 2 schools. One and Isshin-Ryu Karate-Do Dojo about 20 minutes away and an ITF TKD dojang about 5 minutes from my house. Since I was 10 and my parents were taking me. Guess which one i had to attend? :)

That being said, I fell in love with TKD almost right away. Watchin the black belts sparring and punching makiwara boards and kicking heavy bags, doing forms.

I love Taekwon-Do in the fact that it contains MANY techniques and variations of techniques. Over 3200 techniques make up the bulk of TKD study. Under the instruction of a competent instructor many of the techniques can be used for more than one thing. Example your basic "low block" can be used to block a front kick.. but why? Good way to break your arm if not conditioned correctly. A more appropriate use would be to break someones hold who has you by the wrist. There are just so many variations like this that arent being taught and its a shame.

Taekwon-Do is an art you can practice alone at home. You can practice your forms, your basics (strikes, blocks, stances, breathing, stretching, balance) in your bedroom. This is one area that Hapkido differs. It's kind of hard to practice throws and joint-locks by yourself. For this you always need a partner.

Im not putting down Hapkido. It is a great art. But most of what I have seen of Hapkido is NOT hapkido but a few basic self-defense moves taught by Korean "Masters" to lure more people into paying higher prices for classes.

Hapkido is a fine art. But if you want to maximize the learning of joint-locks, throws and takedowns, you WILL need a partner or two. Trust me. I also train in Aikijujitsu, so I know this to be true.

Hope I havent rambled on too much,

Sabum Steve Hartsock

[Jungkihapkido]

There are different parts in any training shcedule. Hapkido has 10 kicking techniques and a number of strikes. There are also Dan Jun Hohup breathing excersises. For some parts and levels of training a partner is needed but by no means not all!

www.millersmudo.com

[Jointlock]

Originally Posted by Yudanja

Taekwon-Do is an art you can practice alone at home. You can practice your forms, your basics (strikes, blocks, stances, breathing, stretching, balance) in your bedroom. This is one area that Hapkido differs. It's kind of hard to practice throws and joint-locks by yourself. For this you always need a partner.

You of course have a valid point, however if Hapkido contains all of the things listed above (strikes, blocks, stances...), a Hapkido practitioner can practice those things from home just as easily. TKD sparring or one steps are not as easily practiced in your bedroom alone.

As far as practicing joint locks and throws, I shadow them all of the time by myself. Sure it doesn't even come close to a live partner, but I find the exercise to be somewhat difficult to imagine a person there.

While solo training is very important, partner or group training should be required in every art.

Don't get me wrong I started with TKD and I still practice my forms regularly. What I will say for TKD is that it is easier and faster to get proficient in the techniques because it, for the most part, encompasses punching and kicking. While a Hapkidoist must learn several different types of technique sets, and it can take a while to be as proficient as the TKDist at punching and kicking depending on how dedicated you are and how quickly you learn.

[Yudanja]

Don't get me wrong I started with TKD and I still practice my forms regularly. What I will say for TKD is that it is easier and faster to get proficient in the techniques because it, for the most part, encompasses punching and kicking. While a Hapkidoist must learn several different types of technique sets, and it can take a while to be as proficient as the TKDist at punching and kicking depending on how dedicated you are and how quickly you learn.
I am just crazy about Taekwondo I suppose :) Taekwondo is made up of 3200 fundmental techniques which include striking, blocking, parrying, kicking techniques, let blocking, dodging, etc.

To become proficient in all aspects of Taekwondo takes decades as well. Im not doubting Hapkido at all. I find the joint-locks somewhat more useful in self-defense than the throws however as the joint-locking techniques can be learned much faster and applied somewhat easier than a throw.

I do not practice Hapkido, but one of my good freinds is an avid student of Aikijujitsu. Most of what i know of joint-locks, throws and takedowns I have learned from him.

Sabum Steve Hartsock

[Cantwell]

I have seen some posts here and other threads saying that some arts offer the same and more than other arts. Sometimes it has to do with number of techniques learned.

Can I just say something for NOT learning too many techniques?

The less techniques you are learning the better you get at the ones you learn, I feel. This is one problem I had with Bujinkan, which I decided not to study. There is way TOO much in the system (among other things).

What I am trying to say is, number and variety of techniques isn't necissarily important as long as the basics are mastered. That's why there are different arts. You learn one than can move on to another.

[American HKD]

I have seen some posts here and other threads saying that some arts offer the same and more than other arts. Sometimes it has to do with number of techniques learned.

Can I just say something for NOT learning too many techniques?

The less techniques you are learning the better you get at the ones you learn, I feel. This is one problem I had with Bujinkan, which I decided not to study. There is way TOO much in the system (among other things).

What I am trying to say is, number and variety of techniques isn't necissarily important as long as the basics are mastered. That's why there are different arts. You learn one than can move on to another.

Greetings

The more you learn the more possiblilties you have to defend yourself.

I to studied Bujinkan Tai Jutsu I don't think they had too many techs.

A boxer only has 4 punches in the limited scope of what they do it works, in anything goes and probably will you need to be prepared in all ascpects of combat.

That takes time an effort and more that a few techs.

[mixmastersenior]

What does TKD have that HKD doesn't? Olympic gold Medals! That is, if your into that kind of thing. (just Kidding!).

[nj_howard]

What does TKD have that HKD doesn't? Olympic gold Medals! That is, if your into that kind of thing. (just Kidding!).
Actually, the gist of your comment is accurate. Traditional Hapkido has no sport component. TKD does, of course. Another difference between most styles of Hapkido and TKD is that the former have no forms, whereas TKD uses forms extensively. I realize that there are Hapkido kwans that use forms, but the art originally taught by Choi Young Sool has no forms.

[pulp fiction]

I haven't studied Hapkido, but I love TKD. I am 4 Kup. I know that a good kick is the one that can't be cought. I also do some judo so I know a little about grappling and locks.

I think why people choose TKD over hapkido may be for reasons that don't involve the style. It could be the master, how much it costs or how far is it from your house.

If you love one style you'll do it as long as you can, and if you are trully an MA you 'll respect other styles.

So it's up to you whether you like Hapkido or TKD.

[Leo_E_49]

Hope I don't get any heat for this but one thing that TKD has that HKD doesn't is sport.

Some of us like to do MA to compete, there's nothing wrong with this what so ever.

[Thomas]

Hope I don't get any heat for this but one thing that TKD has that HKD doesn't is sport.

Some of us like to do MA to compete, there's nothing wrong with this what so ever.
I don't see why anyone should get any heat for it. We get a lot of young people (especially college age) who really want to compete and they find TKD to be "just the ticket". They also want a realistic self defence program that offers a wide range of material... which (Combat) Hapkido fills for them. The arts integrate very well and strengthen each other. For our students they get to take some of the stuff they learn and apply it in tournaments but still do stuff that isn't allowed in tournaments. A good mix.

[American HKD]

Greetings

Lets me be straight foward and to the point as if you all don't know already I have strong opinions.

1. HKD is many times harded to learn than TKD.
2.There's much harder and painfull contact regardless of how much TKD sparring you do.
3. Many HKD Instr. don't teach kids.
4. We don't do the fun point sparring tournaments etc.

I think this actually hurts HKD and makes it impossible to get into the main stream market as a good system for all to train in.

Simply speaking TKD is a breeze to learn, basically painless so it makes it good for the masses of all ages and genders.

I wish HKD could attrack 10-15% of the what TKD can.

[Thomas]

Good points.
We see the same with our classes... the TKD classes are generally double (or more) the size of our Hapkido classes. In fact, without compromising a lot of what we do in (Combat) Hapkido, I don't think we could generate enough students to keep the school going on Combat Hapkido alone. Maybe in a larger area.

TKD provides the bulk of our students and interest. I find TKD to be a great striking system and a great entry program for many students who are starting martial arts for the first time. We have several students who join "just" for TKD who later get interested in the Hapkido. The skills and concepts we teach in TKD get altered and expanded in the Hapkido porogram. Both systems can stand alone but they go together well also.

We also find that people join TKD as their "entry" into martial arts and sometimes they will leave for a time and explore other systems... and then come back. There can be a lot of depth in TKD... much more than is contained in "just" the sport side of it.

[JohnLewis]

I find TKD to be a great striking system and a great entry program for many students who are starting martial arts for the first time.
...
There can be a lot of depth in TKD... much more than is contained in "just" the sport side of it.

Isn't this a bit contradictory? First you say TKD is only for people who are starting martial arts and later you say that there can be a lot of depth in TKD.

Are yoy saying something like "Take Taekwondo for a few years and later search for another Martial Art system"?

Regards,

John Lewis.

[HapkidoScott]

I don't want to answer for Thomas but I too study both TKD and HKD and the TKD I learn is not just the 'sport' style. I think that the longer you stick with it then the more advanced techniques you will learn. The TKD I learn has some counters to grabs and throw attempts and is not just point sparring. We also do forms for each grade. Anyway I enjoy both.

[Thomas]

Isn't this a bit contradictory? First you say TKD is only for people who are starting martial arts and later you say that there can be a lot of depth in TKD.

Are yoy saying something like "Take Taekwondo for a few years and later search for another Martial Art system"?

Regards,

John Lewis.(bold face added - Thomas)

I am sorry, I think you misunderstood me. I never used the word "only" (I believ I used the word "many"). My point was that Taekwondo can be a very good entry martial art. It's fun, energenic, easy to learn at the lower levels and attracts people for many reasons (e.g. sport, fitness, getting out of the house, etc.). Several of our students started TKD with us for those reasons and later decided to get into Hapkido for the access to cross training and for the more depth in self defence that we offer in that program.

At the lower levels, TKD is a fairly straight forward art and the route to 1st dan (at least how I teach it) is a systematic approach to learning and mastering the basic techniques, the combinations and footwork, and the basic philosophy. After 1st dan, students have the chance to take their basic skills and work towards a deeper study of them as well as teaching them. This is what I mean by finding more depth. Unfortunately for many TKDists (and other artists) , very few continue on past 1st dan, even fewer past 2nd and 3rd dan, and for some who do it can be difficult to find a school that pays such attention to its senior ranks.

P.S. about the "sport" side - many TKD schools focus solely on sport. Other TKD schools focus on TKD as a whole art. It is my belief that only learning sport technqiues is only learning a very small part of the art. Studying TKD can be a lifetime task... and very rewarding.

[JohnLewis]

Sorry Thomas. I have misunderstood you, english is not my native language.

A bit OT in this forum, but you said:

After 1st dan, students have the chance to take their basic skills and work towards a deeper study of them as well as teaching them.

Can you explain, in a more detailed way, what consists this deeper study. If you want you can answer me in the Taekwondo forum.

Regards,

John Lewis.

[TigerAn1]

Yes, I'd be curious to hear that as well.

In almost any fighting situation there is going to be a rush of adrenaline for both parties.

If adrenaline cancels out muscle memory, then that would seemingly render most martial arts ineffective in a real combat situation. :confused:

I would think the adrenaline rush would only cancel out that which is not set in memory. I've been in situations where I have used moves learned in wrestling. I would think that if a person has seriously trained in SD long enough, the response would carry over. Of course, the response would need to match the situation. If someone sticks a gun in your face, perhaps not. Then again, it depends on the training.

[Thomas]

Can you explain, in a more detailed way, what consists this deeper study. If you want you can answer me in the Taekwondo forum.

By the time students attain 1st dan, they should have a good grasp of the physical foundation of the art as well as a good working knowledge of the working of the philosphy of the art.

After 1st dan, the students are not learning as many new technqiues as they are learning how to apply the core techniques in simpler ways, in different sutuations, and applying their techniques without too much conscious thought (freer action).

Also, after 1st dan, students begin assisting with teaching and begin to explore how TKD has to differ by individual and they bnegin to learn how to teach the art in individual ways. The act of learning how to teach the art shoul provide a great deal of self exploration (of philosphy, teaching styles, personal abilities, etc) and of exploration of the art istelf.