Long or short combo's

[YODA]

Hi all

When working Thai Pads do you prefer short & sharp combo's or long count combo's - like Ajarn Chai's 15, 17, 18 counts etc.

I have some views but will wait for some input before taking this further.

[YODA]

Hellooooooo echo echo echo.......

<tumbleweeds roll past>

[Freeform]

Heeeeeeeelllllllllllllloooooooooooooo!!!

Short and sharp, just like me ;)

Thanx

[LilBunnyRabbit]

We vary, but usually its around two minutes or more then swap pads, do that several times. Sometimes its longer, other times its shorter.

[YODA]

Jimmy- I'm not talking about the length of a round but the legth of the actual combination being drilled.

E.g. Front kick, jab/cross, rear knee = 4 count etc.

We drill for 2 or 3 minutes usually - sometimes 5. We also have "progressive drills" like the 15 count I mentioned above. The total combo is 15 strikes but we drill it on the Thai Pads over 5 rounds like this...

Round 1: Techniques 1-5
Round 2: Techniques 6-10
Round 3: Techniques 1-10
Round 4: Techniques 10-15
Round 5: Techniques 1-15

[Silver_no2]

Originally posted by Freeform
Short and sharp, just like me ;)

My commisserations to FluffyDoc, poor woman!! :D

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Combination being performed? We usually just work freestyle on pads. We'll do combinations, but only rarely.

[Freeform]

I'd say that combinations are an essential part of your training. The development of muscle memory is important in the development of speed.

Col

[pgm316]

Most combo's we do are 3-5 hits, just learning to get a few hits in fast. There are some longer ones, around 10 moves. Longer ones become a like a 2 person form/kata. Usefull to learn as many people seem stuck for idea's after they've put there first punch in!

[Freeform]

Learn to get the combo's in first, and then as your skill increases you'll be able to pick your 'shot on the trot'.

Col

[Acekicken]

I like short Combo's
In & out is good for me
Long combose i think are good
for Muscle Memory & cardio
But i prefer short Combos

[morphus]

We use short combo's from a single shot, and 2 combo 3 and so on to continuous long combo's learning first in the air, then on to focus pads and on to shields, while doing these drills we change the range getting used to moving from one to another. We practice all of these right through, at every level - hopefully improving ,getting sharper and faster as we go! Well thats the aim isn't it! ;)
As for which do i prefere - any, it doesn't matter which; i like to practice them all, keeps you fit and sharp!:D

[khafra]

I can't count further than four while performing physical activity.

[dredleviathan]

Hi,

My Thai instructions has usually taken the route of short combos of 4 or 5 techniques when doing pad work. Having said that I'm aware that Ajarn Chai has some much longer combinations of 14-18 as Yoda mentioned.

So I had a look at some of my notes and guess what... if you connect the short combos together you get the longer counts.

However we've never practiced the 14+ in a row in one round of pad work - perhaps sue to the limited brain power available in my class.

My instructor usually tells us that 4, 5 or 6 techniques in a row are sufficient as it sets you up for actually landing 2 or 3 nicely. i.e. fighting in flurries rather than all out all the time.

Yoda I really like your phased approach i.e. 1-5, 6-10, 1-10, 11-15, 1-15. Nice progression and forces the fighter to think all the time whilst doing pad work which is usually a bit of a "no brainer". I think I'll try this out in my own practice.

Thanks alot.

[YODA]

Glad you like it - works very well.

Check out my website for lots of 8 counts that can be used in a1-4 ; 5-8 ; 1-8 progression...

Muay Thai Drills (http://www.cea.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ceaweb/thaidrills.htm)

[dredleviathan]

Thanks Yoda - can you supply these to download onto my new PDA? :)

Just kidding but thanks for the tip. Your site has to be one of the best sources of info around in terms of actual drills and useful advice. There are a lot that discuss but very few that actually teach.

Done yourself proud there.

[Tosh]

5 cents from me.

In my experience it depends on what we are training for.

Competition sparring combos can run from anywhere between 4-5 techniques to get past/break down a block.

From a self defence point of view the way we train is to finish it as quick as possible trying to stick to the old "one punch finish" ethos.

Cheer

TC

[YODA]

Originally posted by dredleviathan
[B]Thanks Yoda - can you supply these to download onto my new PDA? :)

[B]

Sure - if you have MS-Word or the Acrobat reader on your PDA :D

[Cain]

Long or short combos?

Hmm.......our class for endurance they can give as much as -

side snap kick to shin stumach n face, single punch to stomach, backfist with same hand, outer block with other had and etc etc it really tires us at the end.

However usually b'fore sparring we do drills, ie one partner throws a technique n the other one blocks or counters and uses a combo on him, but these combos are usually very short.

Even in sparring our teacher reminds us that our opponent will not merely stand still while we perform our magical 5 hit combo fatality from mortal combat :D

I also feel the same way.....I mean long combos can easily tire u especially if u miss and end up kicking or punching in the air.

Just my thoughts though.........I may be wrong.......

|Cain|

[Rob Wyatt]

It is hard to say which ones I prefer. I think both are great. My head trainer focuses on short, powerful, quick combos, for power and efectiveness. My other trainer does longer more intense combos for cardio and endurance. Both very important.

[nicolo]

by law of combinations, you'll have over a zillion possible combos if you mix and match short and long combos.
Long combos are just combinations of short combos anyway. They're nice to know but you cannot memorize every single possible combo. That really isn't the point of it all.
On the pads, you can wail away...make it longer and complex to build endurance, variety, distancing, responsiveness and expressiveness. If you go short, double your power to compensate for your brevity of attack.
Against an opponent, it'll be whatever combo knocks him back. Some will have higher tolerance than others so don't always rely on a short combo to take care of everything. You just have to keep on hitting and hitting and hitting till it's over. THAT is the ultimate lesson of long combos.

[Disaster Master]

One of my boxing coaches (an Olympic bronze medalist) would have me throw a 2-punch combo at the focus mitts and then duck and slip a combo from him; we would repeat the sequence but add a punch each time. We would go to about 12 punches in the combo and then work back down to just two punches and then do it all over again and again. It was very tiring.

[nicolo]

gripes, I'm getting tired from just reading it...
I guess ur coach was just training ur muscle memory...

[Disaster Master]

"gripes, I'm getting tired from just reading it...
I guess ur coach was just training ur muscle memory..."

It's called conditioning, you will need it if you are expected to throw a hundred punches a round.

[versatilefightR]

what is muscle memory?

[versatilefightR]

whats muscle memory

[Freeform]

Its a fancy way of saying that once you've practiced something lots, lets say a punching combination, you can do it without having to really 'think' about it.

When placed into a certain position, or you see a certain opening, the combination just 'happens'.

Dave, I like the way Rick teaches the MT combo's, start off with a basic 4, then once you've got that you can prefix it with a 2/3, once you've got that, you can suffix it (normally going into the clinch).

So You end up with a total combo thats about 12 strikes + clinch, or you've got 3 mini combo's at different ranges.

Col

[YODA]

Originally posted by versatilefightR
what is muscle memory?


I can't remember :D

[YODA]

Originally posted by Freeform

Dave, I like the way Rick teaches the MT combo's, start off with a basic 4, then once you've got that you can prefix it with a 2/3, once you've got that, you can suffix it (normally going into the clinch).


Me too - I suspect he got the inspiration from Rick Faye.

[Freeform]

I thought Rick Faye was a pure WC guy, or do you just mean the methodology?

Col

[YODA]

I think you've got the wrong guy.

Rick Faye is a Full Instructor under Dan Inosanto - he's also one of Rick Young's Instructors / head of part of the US Muay Thai org / general all round world class JKD / Kali etc guy!

He runs the "Minnesota Kali Group"

From his website at http://www.mnkali.com/html/index.php

Rick Faye has owned and operated the Minnesota Kali Group for more than 15 years. Rick has an impressive reputation for seminars on the art as well as self-defense and law enforcement topics. He is much in demand for seminars locally, nationally and internationally. He holds a full instructorship under Dan Inosanto. He has instructorships in Wing Chun, Arnis, Muay Thai and numerous other arts. Rick's devotion to the art is evidenced by his belief in constant training of the basics and an impressive attention to detail. This enthusiasm is integral to his teaching and helps his students learn and maintain their excitement. The results of this work ethic are obvious in both his art and his teaching.

Full Instructor credentials include:

The Filipino Martial Arts and the Jun Fan Martial Arts.
Fifth Level Instructor: Maphilindo Silat system.


His other Instructorships include:

Full Instructor: J.K.D. Concepts under Paul Vunak
Instructor and Regional Director: Muay Thai-Thai Boxing under Chai Sirisute
Instructor (traveling assistant) - Larry Hartsell J.K.D./Jun Fan
Wing Chun sources: Nino Bernardo, Francis Fong, William Chung, Dan Inosanto
Instructor: French Savate - Salem Assli
Certified Physical Control Tactics Instructor - Alexandria Technical College
Instructor: Gas Team - Charlie Dodge
Instructor: Ontario Police College

[Freeform]

Oops, my bad, got wrong guy!

Cheers for the clarification Dave.

Some of my friends have his T-shirts.

Col

[YODA]

Originally posted by Freeform
....

Some of my friends have his T-shirts.


I've got 4 :D

[Loci]

i think that i like to train the short ones like 1-5 or 1-6, otherwise i think that if you go for the really long ones you tend to lose the power, but when we train we TRY to take on the mentality of a thai fighter, so they have to be fast explosive shots.

[Combatant]

I prefere the longer ones personally. My favourite is this ten move combo on the pads done continuously for three minutes;

Right cross
Left hook
Right knee
Right kick
Left knee
Left kick
Jab
Cross
Jab
Right roundhouse

........repeat untill end of round.

At first it feels wierd but you get used to it and it becomes instinct.

[Combatant]

PS It is good to see the MT section being used a bit more :)

[Freeform]

I still like the 'modular' sufix/pre-fix approach to it. It means if you train them enough 'something' should just come out in sparring.

And each little module is a combo in its own right, so if you train lots of these little combo's you should be able to create a larger one pick up from where the last one ended.

Col