Strictness to your curriculum

[Jointlock]

There was quite a long thread in the TKD forum asking whether a student should get promoted if they can not perform some of the physical activities due to illness, injury, or old age. Since in many respects the things that we do in Hapkido (break falls, twisting of the joints) can be harder on the body than some of the punching/kicking types of martial arts I was wondering if anyone had any opinion on this topic from a Hapkido point of view. I'm curious on your view whether you are an instructor or not.

How strictly do you follow your curriculum? If a student is elderly would you still promote them if they could not execute every technique? I know many of us teach high break falls and/or high/jumping/spinning kicking techniques. What about the disabled or an amputee ? What about a mentally challenged person that may not be able to figure out complex movements? Please feel free to share any experiences that you've had with this subject.

I have not had any students thus far that were disabled or elderly.

I'm torn between 2 ways of thinking.

Personally I believe the martial arts to be about personal growth. I think that every student should be seen as an individual. As an instructor you are privy to the growth of your student, you get to see them improve and grow. You know their strengths and weaknesses, and especially you know the things that have given them the most trouble. After spending enough time with any student you will know if they are giving it their all and trying their best, and what will really test them. If a student does every other technique perfectly but because of medical reasons cannot do a jump spin hook kick should this student be held back from a black belt?

The other way of thinking is that I have established a curriculum and I know how proficient I want a student's techniques to be. If I were to let students get away with less, would that demoralize the other students that can do it all. If I want to keep a high standard of quality in my school shouldn't I hold to that standard?

I guess in the end every student is different and I will try to stay as close to the curriculum as possible and do my best to challenge every student in training. Take things of this nature on a case by case basis and figure out issues as they arise.

Comments?

[Mufty]

I have taught many people with diffrent physical requirements.

Children - You need to be carefull with these people as their bones are not fully formed, and they need special atention to correct technique, and we have a childrens syllabus.

Adults - In general this group are expected to perform to the Syllabus.

Senior's - The older group, these people tend to train because they want to, and are willing to try and achive to their best ability.

Blind - These people are great to teach.

Physicall challanged - They will practice to the level of their ability


Injured students :- These people somtimes IMO use their injury as an excuse not to try or even cut class's. Especially when they are still working. They forget that their instructors have been there before them or are actually training with an injury.

However serious injury can be excused.

People with Heart problems :- Again All we can ask is that they train to the best of their ability.

In all the above we must remember that the person training has an understanding of their particular problem and know their own limits.

As a careing instructor I will push everybody to achive the best they can, and any promotions will be worthy.

We practice Budo this also includes Break falls, rolling, hitting kicking, breathing and Chi exercises. weapons.

Regards :)

[BSR]

This is something I've struggled with at my school. We have a few older adults who attend. I wouldn't call them "elderly" but they're in their 50s. One older man in particular has truly awful technique. The thing that gets me is that he's the same rank as I am, but we are nowhere near the same skill level. He has problems executing simple snap kicks and side kicks because his hips are quite stiff, and he doesn't have the phyiscal mobility to do them properly.

We have a fairly small school, so our instructor gets a lot of one on one time with each student. Because this person knows what the correct techniques are, our instructor passes him on belt tests even though his execution of them is sloppy.

On one hand, I feel this person is doing the best he can and shouldn't be punished for his physical limitations. On the other hand, I feel it's poor representation of the school that he has achieved an upper belt rank even though he can't properly execute some of the basic techniques. Overall I understand why my instructor passes him. She has her business and livelihood to be concerned about and can't go running off her clients just because they might be too old to do the stuff younger students can do.

Anybody have a similar experience with middle aged or older students?

[JSun]

I've practiced Kuk Sool with older students of a higher rank who couldn't perform the techniques or falls as well as a younger student, but I think that they bring a certain perspective on the technique that I can definitely learn from. Realistically, I'm not going to be as mobile and limber as I am at thirty when I'm say, 55 or 60, so seeing how someone that age who is currently dealing with those physical limitations overcomes them to execute the technique to the greatest of their ability gives some insight into what I'm going to be inevitably dealing with. I think for-profit dojangs definitely have to consider maintaining their students interest in the art if they want to stay in business. Promotions then become a necessity. Who wants to pay $80 a month just to be :bang: because they don't get promoted in a "reasonable" amount of time? That has a significant impact on the quality of the students coming out of the school, though. Catch 22? You bet. Martial artists who demonstrate poor execution of the curriculum make the school look like it adheres to poor standards, which ultimately is the worst advertising there is.

[HapkidoScott]

I am not an instructor, maybe someday :cool: , but I like your way of treating each person as a separate case and keeping them as close to your syllabus as possible. Ultimately like at my school you will learn each persons strengths, weaknesses, and/or special conditions and then it is up to the instructor to control each students progress. I think that too many people focus on their next belt and how long its gonna take. I just attend class, give my all, and when I am told I'm ready to test then I do. I enjoy training and trust my instructors to tell me when I am ready after all when I test I am showing what they have taught me. I truly do not want to embarass my instructors nor my self. :)

[Hapkidoin P]

Hi Scott,

I just wanted to commend you for your attitude!

I wish that every student(and some Masters,LOL) would keep that outlook throughout their MA career. Keep it up!

[Utotin]

what if you have a guy you is trying to the best of his ability and despite the instructor's best efforts the student lacks the abitility to perform much of the curriculum well, and is unable to perfome a portion of it at an acceptable level. But, they are performing at the best of their ability. Would you still allow him to grade or would he be stuck? I know of students like this at a couple different dojangs who eventually earned black belt despite their extreme lack of physical lack of coordination.

[Hapkidoin P]

what if you have a guy (that) is trying.....snip....But, they are performing at the best of their ability.

I think that's all you can ask for,no? One thing my old teacher said to me was.."There's no competition here,the only competition is with yourself." I think that as long as they're giving 110%,that means more than flying around the Dojang doing fancy kicks.


[QUOYE=Utotin]Would you still allow him to grade or would he be stuck? I know of students like this at a couple different dojangs who eventually earned black belt despite their extreme lack of physical lack of coordination.[/QUOTE]

I would rather have one student with heart than 100 students with none.But..don't mistake this as a "pity rank"..they have to earn it.

[Jointlock]

Thanks to all that contributed. There have been some great responses.

[zac_duncan]

I think it boils down to the essence of the art, which to me means blending with the opponent, attacking their balance, attacking a weak point and controlling them to the ground.

So you can't jump kick or you can barely kick at all, fine, show me that you can sink a lock. Show me you can control your opponent. That's the essence of the art after all. If you can't do that, I can't see why they should be promoted to dan rank. The rest is just icing.

[Alison]

I like this thread. I didn't find martial arts until my mid 50's when I began taking my grandchildren to their classses and got hooked. I do regret that I didn't start training decades earlier like most people in these forums, but thankful that I did ultimately find this thing that enhances my life so much.

Now, as being able to perform the curriculum. I am fortunate that I have been blessed with good health and a strong body and have participated in all kinds of sports and kept fit all my life. I know that I will never be as strong and as fast as the guys in their twenties and thirties. But I can still do stuff. I am far more flexible than many of them. I have a mighty fine jump kick. As for endurance, I leave most of 'em panting and gasping for air when we do our extended drills and light sparring. The trick is knowing your body and taking the time for extra preparation befor training so you don't hurt yourself. It does take me longer to master some of the more difficult techniques, but I find that if I take the extra time to stretch, build up the my strength and balance, I can do the spins, sweeps and dive rolls along with the kids. I may not be the picture of grace, but I get the job done.

I feel that the wisdom and insight I have from having had a full carreer and raising a family have helped me in martial arts. When you know and accept your shortcomings so well, you bring a certain humility to your training. And as all our masters have told us, humility is essential. It also helps to have a good sense of humor about one's self.

As to promotion, I advance much more slowly than most of the other students but I don't want a higher rank just because I'm an old bag still managing to squeak around the dojang. If I can't perform the test requirements serviceably, I do not want the higher rank. That brings no honor to me or to my school. If I fail the test or get to a point where I can advance no further because some of the techniques are too demanding for me, I will continue to practice at the lower rank, if my master will permit.

I do see the resentment in some of the younger guys' eyes (usually just among the lower ranks) when they are paired off with me. That's OK and it generally vanishes after a couple of classes with me. As for the women (many of whom are the most accomplished students in our dojang) they appreciate having me around. They know that in two or three decades, they will be in my shoes (bare feet, actually)- in the dojang, kicking butt!

[Jointlock]

Thank you for contributing, Alison. It sounds like you're doing great things in the martial arts. Keep it up.

May I ask what martial art that you do?

[Alison]

Jointlock,

Hapkido, Sir!

[HapkidoScott]

Alison, Further proof that we are never too old to begin a new journey and maam its the journey not the destination. You have an awesome attitude and I hope it spreads to everyone at your school. I think we share a similar philosophy in regards to admitting ones shortcomings and humility. Train hard with what you've got and the rest will come with hard work, nothing wrong with that. Its not meant to be easy or everyone would be doing it, right?! Respectfully, Scott