Swordwork

[Utotin]

A question. In my experience there is a limited amount of swordwork with the Jook Do (bamboo sword) and it seems that all that is taught are a few basic strikes to the head with the of developing some wrist strength and to be able to give someone with a dan bong something to practice their blocking against.

I was wondering if any of the "traditional" hkd guys out there learned a bit of swordwork as part if their "regular" hkd training as well, and if so how in depth did you go? Also what was your instructor's reasoning for teaching swordwork?

[JimH]

My use of the sword in the arts,is not on the hapkido side,but it was on the aikido side.

We learned the use of the sword to learn to move,to select the opponent ,to see how he enters,to find a way to bypass the weapon and strike on our own.
(when you can close the gap,at angle,to the sword and get inside to grab the hands,strike and disarm,you see the way to make it work unarmed to unarmed,much easier,you see and find the use of the circle in entry to be along side the opponent /swordsman facing where he is facing to take him,turn him,spin him to control him and his weapon)

The application to the aiki arts is easier once you understand how they came about and see that we do not go head to head,we learn to enter at an agle ,to attack the hands,wrists,arms and joints,to by pass the weapon and to be able to make a strike to soften,hold the weapon hand,check it /pin it, then bring it around into a joint lock.

I did not and do not find Kumdo/Gumdo to be true to the use of the sword,as today Kumdo has been taken in a direction that leads to jumps and flips and an over use of the sword that was unintended.
(my view)

I have used the sword art as taught in Aikido and in Iaido.
The sword is drawn ,a position of attack is found and a cut (to kill) is made.
The movements should be draw, Cut(s) (should be one or two),Throw off the blood and put away,not dozens of moves with dozens of cuts.

[American HKD]

A question. In my experience there is a limited amount of swordwork with the Jook Do (bamboo sword) and it seems that all that is taught are a few basic strikes to the head with the of developing some wrist strength and to be able to give someone with a dan bong something to practice their blocking against.

I was wondering if any of the "traditional" hkd guys out there learned a bit of swordwork as part if their "regular" hkd training as well, and if so how in depth did you go? Also what was your instructor's reasoning for teaching swordwork?

Greetings

KHF & Sin Moo have basic cuts, draws, and counters and well as some empty hand sword disarms.

I like them it's fun and educational to learn about the sword, you also must remember the are'nt many sword techniques anyway in any sword art it's mainly simple and to the point.

[Utotin]

Yeah, in HKD I learned a few basic cuts with the Jook Do as well as some footwork. After practicing Kendo for some time I began to realise that the way I was taught in HKD was pretty much crap- it was sloppy kumdo with no grasp of basics. I am only a shodan (1st Dan) in kendo so I am neither qualified to, nor do I have any desire to teach my students kendo/kumdo but I think I will use my experience to at least make their footwork and cuts correct when they are ready to learn the jook do, maybe include some basic exercises I learned in Kendo to at least give them some fundaments. It bugs me to see people swinging their Jook do around and have not a clue as to what they are doing.

Also, if it is done properly a few hundred suburi week is a very good way to build strength in your wrists which definitly a plus when it comes to HKD.

[American HKD]

Yeah, in HKD I learned a few basic cuts with the Jook Do as well as some footwork. After practicing Kendo for some time I began to realise that the way I was taught in HKD was pretty much crap- it was sloppy kumdo with no grasp of basics. I am only a shodan (1st Dan) in kendo so I am neither qualified to, nor do I have any desire to teach my students kendo/kumdo but I think I will use my experience to at least make their footwork and cuts correct when they are ready to learn the jook do, maybe include some basic exercises I learned in Kendo to at least give them some fundaments. It bugs me to see people swinging their Jook do around and have not a clue as to what they are doing.

Also, if it is done properly a few hundred suburi week is a very good way to build strength in your wrists which definitly a plus when it comes to HKD.

Greetings,

Sorry to disagree a bit.

We learned Kum Sool (sword tech) not sloppy gumdo.

I have seen some schools do sloppy jukdo tech for the purpose of dan bong training and in that case the students aren't really taught proper tech. and to a swordsmans it would be a joke.

I just want mention this is not the HKD sword skills set.

[Utotin]

Greetings,

Sorry to disagree a bit.

We learned Kum Sool (sword tech) not sloppy gumdo.

I have seen some schools do sloppy jukdo tech for the purpose of dan bong training and in that case the students aren't really taught proper tech. and to a swordsmans it would be a joke.

I just want mention this is not the HKD sword skills set.

Master Rosenberg,

I don't disagree with you . I am talking more about using the jook do for the purpose of dan bong training, ntr for the purpose of becoming particularly proficient with a sword. When I am training with the dan bong it sucks when your partner (who is using the jook do) is not able to give you a proper cut to block against, the come in at wierd angles that may not quite work with the specific block you are practicing, additionally they don;t have the control to keep from whacking you in the knuckes or the armpit, and there is no speed or cripness of technique.

When I learned some jook do in HKD it was basically kumdo/kendo style, rather than Kum Sool which may or may not have been due to my old GM's kumdo background. In any case, if someone is going to do it they might as well do it right and my background gives me the skill and knowledge to make sure they WILL do it right and it will be the same techniques that my old master attempted to teach me (but did not have any sword skills himself), but done correctly.

Just out of curiosity, what is the source of "traditional" HKD swordwork and who defined it as such? Is Kum Sool a seperate art such as Hae dong Kumdo, or Japanese Iaido, or is it just a name of a sword skillset taught within Hapkido specifically? traditional HKD swordword is not something I have not heard to much about. is it similar to the swordwork in Kuk Sool?

[American HKD]

Master Rosenberg,

I don't disagree with you . I am talking more about using the jook do for the purpose of dan bong training, ntr for the purpose of becoming particularly proficient with a sword. When I am training with the dan bong it sucks when your partner (who is using the jook do) is not able to give you a proper cut to block against, the come in at wierd angles that may not quite work with the specific block you are practicing, additionally they don;t have the control to keep from whacking you in the knuckes or the armpit, and there is no speed or cripness of technique.

When I learned some jook do in HKD it was basically kumdo/kendo style, rather than Kum Sool which may or may not have been due to my old GM's kumdo background. In any case, if someone is going to do it they might as well do it right and my background gives me the skill and knowledge to make sure they WILL do it right and it will be the same techniques that my old master attempted to teach me (but did not have any sword skills himself), but done correctly.

Just out of curiosity, what is the source of "traditional" HKD swordwork and who defined it as such? Is Kum Sool a seperate art such as Hae dong Kumdo, or Japanese Iaido, or is it just a name of a sword skillset taught within Hapkido specifically? traditional HKD swordword is not something I have not heard to much about. is it similar to the swordwork in Kuk Sool?


Greetings,

Yes I've seen the same thing, when I learned Dan Bong I was lucky enough to have my master train me not a guy who can't hold the Jukdo.

Also your right the DB training is often some sort of loose Kumdo style, not to be confused with good Kum Sool.

I don't think there's one true source in HKD sword. Master Ji says his sword tech is from Samrang Do the Korean equivilent to the samuri. He likes to think of his sword work as simple but practical. Ohters claim it from Chinese sources like Kuk Sool.

From what I can gather sword was a weapon of the past by the time HKD developed, some schools do it more some less. My teacher is a 5th dan in Dai Dong Kum Do but I was mainly interested in the simpler material with out the forms.