multiple attackers

[cbraves85]

Wat martial art is most effective against multiple attackers? I might guess tkd.

[YODA]

Track & field

Run-fu

Leggit-do

Gethahelloutadodge-jitsu

Trying to learn to fight multiple attackers is a no brainer. Training NOT to fight multiple attackers is the way to go.

Arts that work escape & evasion skills, threat recognition etc would be my choice. Anyone any suggestions?

[Andrew Green]

TKD hasn't had good showings againt single attackers in competition, its too one-dimensional.

Perhaps finding something that works well against one person would be a better place to start?

But High kicks are the last thing you want to be throwing around, especially against more then one person, as there is a very good chance of ending up on the ground.

[waya]

Hapkido, Aikido, Bujinkan, and Yoda's suggestions top my list.... Yoda's first of course, my legs work even better for haulin my butt down the road than for kickin someone else's. :D

[cbraves85]

how about juijitsu

[YODA]

See my reply in the Jujitsu forum where you posted it.

[waya]

Originally posted by cbraves85
how about juijitsu

Groundfighting against multiple attackers sounds a bit suicidal to me...

[Tosh]

Originally posted by Andrew Green
TKD hasn't had good showings againt single attackers in competition, its too one-dimensional.

Man that's pretty closed-minded Andrew would'nt have expected that form you. :(

And besides why do you assume that TKD'ers only throw high kicks??

BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH! :D

[YODA]

Who mentioned groundfighting?

[Aegis]

Originally posted by waya
Groundfighting against multiple attackers sounds a bit suicidal to me...

Not all jujutsu is groundfighting based. In fact, the style I do teaches us to stay on our feet as much as we can. The only groundfighting we do is stuff we can use to get back on our feet as soon as possible.

[Andrew Green]

Originally posted by tosh_spice
Man that's pretty closed-minded Andrew would'nt have expected that form you. :(

And besides why do you assume that TKD'ers only throw high kicks??

BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH! :D

TKD rules - kick above the waist only, emphasis on kicking to the head. If thats not the way your going to fight, don't train that way.

TKD can work, any art can work, but what is generally regarded as TKD is not really a good strategy outside of TKD competition.

But some schools with "Tae Kwon Do" on there sign don't do that, most do though.

"Best keep both feet on the ground for the most part." Would you say that is something taught in most TKD schools?

[Thomas]

Andrew, I think you are maybe mis-reading the question...
Yes, TKD has specific rules for COMPETITION, but the question was about multiple attackers, which I believe would fall into the self defence aspects. Maybe you've visited a lot of Taekwondo schools and didn't like any of them, but you haven't visited tham ALL, so please don't knock the entire style. Competition is one dimension of TKD, but it isn't the entire spectrum.

Back to the topic: In general (my opinion), some advantages of TKD in this situation is the fast and poowerful kicks (which are very devastating when thrown LOW as well). A few hard hits and then you should be able to create an opening and get the heck out of there. Against multiple opponents on the street, that is what I would do. I would try to avoid grappling or locking because of the numbers. A few hard strikes, then run out of there.

As for advice against multiple attackers, I agree with Yoda in getting out of there... regardless of what style you learn and/or your size and experience... it would be very difficult to defeat a group of determined adversaries...

[Cain]

Get to the top of a locked building and throw bricks at them ;)

|Cain|

[waya]

Originally posted by YODA
Who mentioned groundfighting?

I may be off base... My experience with Jujitsu has been all grappling.

[kempocos]

Waya - not all jujitsu is ground fighting, the NHB/UFC/PRIDE has made it seem so.

Run is the best defense, if forced to fight it does not matter what style just remeber line them up and figjht them one at a time keep moving keeping one between you and the rest. And fight real dirty grab wepons, bite , break limbs. It is more stratagy than style.

[Tosh]

Originally posted by Andrew Green

But some schools with "Tae Kwon Do" on there sign don't do that, most do though.

I'd say the UK, especially Scotland doesn't suffer as much TKD wise as across the water. much higher standard of clubs here, which is strange?? :(

But bang on!

[AikiSamurai]

i think Running is the best thing to do...but if you had to fight multiple partner or evade to run another direction...try aikido...or some kung fu.

[waya]

Originally posted by kempocos
Waya - not all jujitsu is ground fighting, the NHB/UFC/PRIDE has made it seem so.



All my experience with it has been NHB related. I am looking for a local school to check out for more exposure.

[kempocos]

Brazilian JJ is all ground for the most part thanks to Gracies , Machado and such. Japanese JJ has strikes , kicks, joint manipulation. Akido grew from this and Daitoryu akijiutsu. the offensive moves where removed leaving pure defensive art.

[aikiMac]

Guns, running, and the aid of others, are of course supreme. But otherwise, aikido and blade-oriented silat top my list.

[Justin]

running i think would be the best way

[Kronic]

or awoiding situations like that, but if that is impossible I would say that a stile where you move al the time is a good start. Bagua is a good one for the movement and they do it againt multiple attackers, Tai chi is good too and a bit of wing chun never hurt... But try running first
(mind the spelling, I am Swedish) ;)

[SoKKlab]

Hapkido is Ju Jitsu, but with more of an equal emphasis on Kicking and Striking (In most Japanese styles of Ju Jitsu kicking is a bit of an afterthought or something not done as an Offensive/ Attacking technique).

I've studied both and most of the techniques are the same or very very similar, each operating to the sensibilities of its given country.

Against multiple Attackers? As well as the fine advice given above by my Martial chums, perhaps a system like Krav Maga, might give you some ideas in this direction, as it's purely orientated towards worst case scenario Self protection?

Although obviously you have no guarantees, ever.

[Hwoarang]

There is no style that can prepare you for street fighting or else....everything is good, but the best is to not get involved.

[Topher]

Obviously running is the best choice, but if you had to fight, a hard kick to the head of your attacher(s) would sure be useful.

I also believe that the shock factor could also work. Your common street thug(s) probably wouldn't attack a martial artist, so show that your are and they'll probably think twice. They would expect you to be scared, comply and hand over the money, phone, and other stuff to not get beated up, they wont expect an arse-kicking.

Also, most gang members are gutless and if you took out the 'main-man' the other probably run like there no tomorrow.

[Shoulin]

That is a very dangerous piece of advice homer.

What experiences have you had to back this up?

[SoKKlab]

Originally posted by Homer J Simpson
Your common street thug(s) probably wouldn't attack a martial artist, so show that your are and they'll probably think twice.

Would somebody like to tell me why exactly 'Your common street thug wouldn't attack a Martial Artist?'

Don't tell me, he will feel the power of your Chi and run away screaming 'Mummy'?

[Saz]

Your common street thug probably wouldn't attack a martial artist, if he knew beforehand they were one. Thing is, they don't.

Most crimes are pretty random, or commited on opportunity, and muggers often don't know they're victims, so they certainly wouldn't know you do MA just by looking at you. And I would think shouting 'I must warn you, I know TKD/Karate/Kung fu' would make the situation worse, not better.

[SoKKlab]

Most street Arseholes that I have known (sounds like a good book),

Would definitely attack a martial artist, especially if they knew that they were one. Just to have a row and try their luck
(I'm talking about working-class life here).

Back when I was still living in Wales, I never told anybody that I did Martial arts, because they would always try to start something. 'That **** won't work on me'.
So I just stayed stumm. Best not to advertise.

Most 'Common street thugs' are anything but and usually (rightly or wrongly) fancy their chances against martial artists, as they often reckon that we are wusses and 'bag-punchers' and they know that alot of Martial artists can't actually fight (Imagine?).

When I used to train in Kung Fu, there were a few fools that would come in and openly taunt those taking part. I saw a couple of the instructors have vicious fights with the troublemakers (Good Training).

At my first Muay Thai club we used to get idiots coming in off the street and trying to start fights with us when we were training, the usual line being 'Come and try some of that Kung Fu ***** on me' (!?)...

I saw my instructor knock people out in order to get them to leave. After he knocked a few out, their were less and less turning up, but they still came, but this time they'd turn up to the heavier sparring days on a Sunday and try to take your head off instead...

My point being that nothing will make you invincible, especially doing Martial Arts, so don't count on its reputation, aura, mystique etc.

Only count on your hard work, common sense and preparation.

[Topher]

Well i'm not applying this to just martial arts - i've only been in the game for a few months, but from my experiance with some muggers if you show you wont take any **** from them and stand up to them they MIGHT think again, especially if they dont expect it. I not saying this is always the case.

I mean, of all the times someone has attempted to mug me and my friends, which accually isn't that many, i've only considered fighting/fought back 3 times. Once was based purely on adrenalin and the other 2 were because i knew the kid. He's like the local *****...thinks his the dogs bollocks. All other occasions were safely resolved without voilence, obviously my prefered choice.

And how can to show them your a martial artist or can defend yourself, well show them, dont tell them. I mean, if they tried to attack you, counter it if you can. Sure they may not instantly see your a MA black belt, but if they know you'll give as good as your get, it'll give them somthing to think about. And i've seem some people at MAP mentioned people should fight dirty on the street and cheat [not that you accually can]. I'm sure a roundhouse to the head you at least give them some clue as to what you know or are willing to do.

Thats just my personal experiance, i'm not saying it's the right way, but it worked for me on those time. I obviously would only do it again if i though i was safe to do so. I'd rather loose the few change in my pocket to risking my safety or even better try not to get involved, but somethings are inevitable.

Also, i've never come across those hardcore robbers willing to really cause dangerous harm, those with guns...etc I nope i never do but if i did, maybe these opinions will change.

And Shoulin, that wasn't advice, just an opinion, just like this post.

:)

[SoKKlab]

I'm sure a roundhouse to the head you at least give them some clue as to what you know or are willing to do.
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Try a Roundhouse to the legs, much safer and generally has more power.

[thiaboxr2]

Besides, a roundhouse to the head may leave you off balance. Go for the legs, its quicker and less likely for you to lose balance.

Use whatever works. by all means, do not tell them you are a black belt. They might want you to " prove it ".

I personally like to grab their fingers and bend them in all kinds of directions. You can control them easier.

The classic heel stomp on their feet is good.

[Saz]

Originally posted by SoKKlab

When I used to train in Kung Fu, there were a few fools that would come in and openly taunt those taking part.

We train in a YMCA centre, and we get this too, very annoying. The usual line we get is either a mickey taking 'Osu', or a ' think yer hard do you' :rolleyes:

You are right, if someone is looking for trouble, saying your a martial artist to them will just give them more to go on. If they're looking for an easy scrap to show off to their girlfriend/boyfriend or mate, it may put them off too.

I agree, kicking to the head in a streetfight isn't wise at all, it can leave you pretty vunerable if it doesn't connect properly, and the risk is that you may miss altogether. Only kick them in the head if they're on the floor.

[Kronic]

As the wrighters above I do not either recomend kicks to the head. Facts: When I studied Law I frecvently went to the lokal courthous to watsh triles. Many of the cases were someon had been beaten that could fight, he had tryed to do a high kick and misse. If the kick miss you are opend for conterattacks and that often led to you on the ground and your apponent on top of you.

Do not tell the attacker you are a martial artist, make it a suprice.
I have been attacked on a pub by 5 persons or they wanted to attack me... sounds strange but I never deliverd a single punch or kick just talked my way out of it untill the leader got tired of me and grabbe me in attemt to headbutt... He knocked himselfe unconsius against my skull that mett him with the same move...
After that they all left in a hurry... I wouldent recomen this to a novice... So with my 11 years of training I have learnd to talk instead of fight

I still stick with the running away from it all, as I teach my students. And a possesion can be replaced, your life can not.

[Topher]

That the point i was trying to make. Your attack, what ever it may be, should surprise/shock them. You are right that a kick to the head may not be that good, i wasnt suggesting that kick, just using it in that example.

Also, how can you not get involved in an attack, it's not like you have a choice. They wont ask if they can rob/attack you they just try to do it and you become involved, whether you like it or not.

I always prefer to walk/run away or talk my way out, but if someones intent on mugging/attacking you walking away sometimes isn't was easy as it sounds. They may follow you, or grab your arm to stop you. Beleve it or not, a gang of thugs once followed me into a packed McDonalds to try to rob me...they didn't succeed. And like Kronic said, if they get tired of you trying to talk your way out, they might just attack.

I honestly belive that no martial artist here would not defend themself if under attack. If someone points a knife at you and you have a real good opening to kick it out there hand, would you do it?... i would

Yes, you should try to avoid an attack, but if/when an attack happends sometimes isn't up to you.

[SoKKlab]

I honestly belive that no martial artist here would not defend themself if under attack.
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It's not whether someone would defend themself under attack, just whether they are capable.

There is a big difference. As I know that you are aware, Martial Arts does not make someone invincible.

Your point was initially that a 'Common street thug' probably wouldn't attack someone if they knew that that person did Martial Arts.

My experience has been alot different, but either way, what really matters is whether You/ I/We are prepared for what may happen and how You/I/We deal with the situation psychologically, not how many great techniques you or I know and may or may not theoretically use if we have to.

And yes not being there definitely is the best from of self-protection.

But if you are, Hard Fast rules. With Accuracy and Intent.

[Knight_Errant]

I remeber in our community centre karate class, there was this bunch of annoying kids sitting on a bench in the class on our demonstration night.