Arrest and Probation for Self Defense in Schools

[Shokku]

At the middle/high school, the SROs (student resource officers) enjoy abusing their power and exemplifying their horrible judgement by arresting the victor of every fight, which pretty much always results in probation for them.

Typically this is because the loser is crying at the end... and she just assumes, whether or not the witnesses' statements are contrary, that they decided to pick a random kid and beat him into the ground.

Some supposedly 'important' person came in and read the code of conduct on the morning show (and I work the equipment, so I had to listen to the whole thing >_<), and after this pointless presentation (they also decided to waste our tax dollars by taking an entire Friday doing nothing but reading the book in every class, so we knew everything), one student inquired as to what we're supposed to do in the event of an altercation.

1. Don't get into one.
And if someone is having a bad day and you bump into them in the hall?

2. Run.
Dishonorable.

3. Cover your face.
Uhuh - and have him knock your hands into your head or take a shot to your groin.

BTW - who think's numbers 1-3 are bs? ;-O

I wasn't satisfied with this, and a further inquiry of our options was made. Apparently we can do what we need to deflect our assailant's attacks, and push him off of us if neccesarry. He specifically stated that we just 'can't hit them back'. This registered in my mind as "Okay, then I'll just throw them." But how many people are going to be able to do this? (because if anyone every attempts to arrest me for throwing my attacker rather than crippling him, it's going to be like attempting to restrain a rabbid doberman with silly string)

A friend was arrested because 'he struck the other participant first'. What actually happened was the other guy moved his arm back in the really slow, pathetic way that people who don't know what they're doing tend to do... my friend was faster. Before the guy could redirect the force of his movement from drawing his arm back to striking, he took a direct hit to the skull, resulting in a concussion. This was one strike. If he'd wanted to, he could have killed the guy. It was simply a well-executed counter-attack. The kids who can't fight are the ones you have to pull off of eachother! And they just get a warning. Arrest them, demmit! Not the ones who can fight and aren't going to let someone give them a bloody nose/lip/whatever.

From my point of view, anyone insolent enough to attack me with no previous training in combat deserves that concussion. But that's my "I hate the world" mindset speaking. :rolleyes:

Anyway, who thinks it's wrong that someone should be arrested for defending themselves, in school?

Any no, not every fight is provoked, and most are started when the attacked has no idea why the other guy is attacking him.

I've put everything relavent in bold, so as to save the reader time. :) This is another one of those threads I make when I'm bored...

[slipthejab]

This is another one of those threads I make when I'm bored...

Obviously.

[Yohan]

First off . . . it's high school. What are they going to do? Stomp you into jelly? If your friend knew how to fight, why was it necessary to give old dude a concussion just because he drew his arm back?

Second off . . . there's nothing 'dishonorable' about running, especially if you plan on having a successful high school and college career.

Sorry, but you are in a public school, an educational establishment run by the state of whatever. In order to succeed in life, you have to learn how to jump through the various hoops they put in front of you.

So, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD don't get into a fight, and if you do, try one of these simple self defense maneuvres:

1. Run
2. Cover your face/block
3. Plant your face into his chest and bear hug him so he can't hit you in the face, try to control his arms and legs so he can't hit you anywhere else.

[badgoat]

And if someone is having a bad day and you bump into them in the hall?

Um, how 'bout an apology and keep walking?

When we grow up and crap like this happens in the real world, like at work, punching somebody out becomes less of an option. Actually, pretty stupid. What's going to come of it? Is it worth it? Not to me. Blow that crap off. It's friggin' high school, man. Nobody remembers this crap except our bruised egos.

I did get into a fight in elementary school one time, and we took it off-grounds. (I won and nothing happened to either of us. He threatened to have his older bros beat me up --- woooooo --- they thought it was hilarious that a girl kicked his butt). This was 1976, mind you. Today kids come back the next day with semi-autos. I'd be more careful of how many checks my mouth is writing that my butt can't cover.

Bottom line: somebody bothers me, I am prepared to defend myself. But I try all other means to resolve it first (including running if I've got a psycho on my tail...I'm no good to anyone dead. My ego will get over it.). As a grown-up, I keep loaded guns around, too, since I live on a farm in the country. But I don't go looking for trouble, or let it escalate. To me, the best offense is a good defense.

Fight smarter, not harder.

[Kwajman]

When my wife had my sons enrolled in public school the kids would deliberately start fights with the "smart" kids right before tests so that both kids would get kicked out fo school for three days. Any fighting for any reason got you a three day suspension. Kind of threw the grade point averages off there a bit....

[regs]

As sensei says, "It's better to avoid a fight, if possible, than to be in a fight." If possible, run. No, this isn't dishonourable, this is smart.

[Shokku]

First off . . . it's high school. What are they going to do? Stomp you into jelly? If your friend knew how to fight, why was it necessary to give old dude a concussion just because he drew his arm back?

Second off . . . there's nothing 'dishonorable' about running, especially if you plan on having a successful high school and college career.

Sorry, but you are in a public school, an educational establishment run by the state of whatever. In order to succeed in life, you have to learn how to jump through the various hoops they put in front of you.

So, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD don't get into a fight, and if you do, try one of these simple self defense maneuvres:

1. Run
2. Cover your face/block
3. Plant your face into his chest and bear hug him so he can't hit you in the face, try to control his arms and legs so he can't hit you anywhere else.

Sorry, but I don't feel that these people are worth even the possibility of a bloody lip.

Blocking, great. Yeah, ya know, I've tried that. But the dumber people are, the more persistant they tend to be. And I'm an offensive fighter anyway - partial blocks. I'm getting into throwing (^_^) which would result in me not getting into trouble (you can't punish me for that - I have the media).

About those high ropes... what bs is that? No, they can't really do much - other than suspend you, and put you on probation for a year (probably longer, I don't know). Expulsion is very likely. So I'm going to be expelled... from every school in the county (or is it state?) So we have to move so I can go to school (not that it's worth it with the curriculum they've made).

The only power anyone really has over anyone else is fear of punishment - it's all the government has, all teachers have (there are some good teachers, though...), and all parents have. The authoritarian mindset: "You're going to do what I want you to do because I either think it's for the best or I have my own selfish motives for wanting you to do it."

I don't fear punishment. You want to expel me? Okay, I'm going to go buy some reference texts and focus more on my MA so that I'm actually learning something. Hey! Guess what! I can do it in less than NINE HOURS a day, too! But, let's see... if I spend nine hours studying on my own... in a year... I'll be able to skip two grades and laugh in your face about it! Awesome! That's sarcasm - but sadly, it's true here.

And this was all because I didn't let one of your students - who is by the way one of the students you focus your attention and resources on, rather than the students with the real potential who actually care but aren't being taught anything because you've decided to restrain us to the level of the REMEDIAL students - attack me because he's a... I'm concerned I'm going to start throwing out profanity here, so I'm going to stop now...

IN CONCLUSION: I'm not running, not blocking until the SRO comes and breaks it up - WHO BY THE WAY WATCHES THE FIGHT FOR FIVE MINUTES BEFORE BREAKING IT UP UNLESS SHE SEES BLOOD - , and I'm not shoving my face into this guy's chest, looking like a retard. Thanks - next opinion.

Um, how 'bout an apology and keep walking?

When we grow up and crap like this happens in the real world, like at work, punching somebody out becomes less of an option. Actually, pretty stupid. What's going to come of it? Is it worth it? Not to me. Blow that crap off. It's friggin' high school, man. Nobody remembers this crap except our bruised egos.

I did get into a fight in elementary school one time, and we took it off-grounds. (I won and nothing happened to either of us. He threatened to have his older bros beat me up --- woooooo --- they thought it was hilarious that a girl kicked his butt). This was 1976, mind you. Today kids come back the next day with semi-autos. I'd be more careful of how many checks my mouth is writing that my butt can't cover.

Bottom line: somebody bothers me, I am prepared to defend myself. But I try all other means to resolve it first (including running if I've got a psycho on my tail...I'm no good to anyone dead. My ego will get over it.). As a grown-up, I keep loaded guns around, too, since I live on a farm in the country. But I don't go looking for trouble, or let it escalate. To me, the best offense is a good defense.

Fight smarter, not harder.

I don't really use closed-hand strikes in actual altercations. They're put into a lock and the back of their knee is taken out, probably followed by a strike to the side of the neck, hard enough to make them dizzy - nauseous. Apparently you get in trouble for that, too. When a teacher sees someone do that, they panic, and create stories about how you brutally attacked the poor student. And the SRO has no idea what to say, unless she was there, so both are suspended/expelled.

Either the teacher only the part of the fight where you were on the offensive, or he kid thinks he's going to die because his nose is bleeding profusely, and runs to the office crying.

Apology? I'm not going to argue about it, of course I would apologize. But that was just showing that people get mad over stupid things - over absolutely nothing.

When my wife had my sons enrolled in public school the kids would deliberately start fights with the "smart" kids right before tests so that both kids would get kicked out fo school for three days. Any fighting for any reason got you a three day suspension. Kind of threw the grade point averages off there a bit....

There's a perfect example. 'Smart' would fairly describe me - and people do hate the intelligent students (but we have more reason to hate them - they're the ones getting all the attention and resources in school... but no one ever says anything). And, I'm Gothic. People hate Gothic. I hate people.

How smart is it to pick a fight with someone who has spiked chains hanging from their pants and a razor blade on their necklace?? NOT SO SMART.

And guess what? The teachers are JUST AS DISCRIMINATE. Oh, yeah, he's Gothic - he must have started the fight, Goths hate everyone. Actually, Goths keep to themselves. If a Goth is in a fight, chances are he didn't start it. And yet we're blamed anyway...

A bit off topic - but yeah, fights are started for no reason (by the way, do you know how hard it is to run in bondage pants? In basketbal shorts I'm da- incredibly fast... but bondage pants? Gimme a break, lol).

[raizen]

I have a problem with the not fighting thing if i do not fight this kid others will see me as an easy target. I mean i will not hit him first by any means but once word gets out i let some one hit me and did jack then it like puting the kick my ass for free sign on my back. So then what do i do? take hell from all the bullies i could easly kill? I do not want my grades to fall that is why i have put up with this kid for 9 frigin weeks!

Here is what hapened New kid comes to the table me and my frinds set at. i say cool new guy maybe a friend. he says the f word 60 times in 5 min (i counted) I do not like to hear that stuff but i did not say any thing. (just words get over it right so i did) then the kid and a couple of my frinds go out side to listen to some music. the bell rings for class me and all my other frinds get up and i see a bag setin their so i think this could be one of my frinds bags so i put it on the table open it up pull the first book out. It says the name of the new kid who says the f word to much. so i jsut put the book back into the bag and leave. I go to my locker and all the the suden i hear you mother fer i am gona kick your ars on and on and on like this. i say dude i did not now it was your bag he says bs you <deleted>.. Every day know it is like i gona kick your arse right in my face.. he hit me in the stomach once no pain so i over look it. But i am getin rather tired of this crap its been goin on for 9wks. If i tell a teacher/officer what ever it will be worse. and if he hits me agin and it gets out he hit me all his previously scared frinds are after me. So what do i do? Run?

[Capt Ann]

Report that he hit you. Let him get in trouble/suspended. Better yet, let him get a written record of a history of hitting people with no provocation.

It seems you are worried that eventually, you are going to have to take this guy out because he keeps coming after you. So what does it matter if you annoy him by reporting him? If you report him, and then he does come after you later, you can at least say that you tried every avenue at your disposal (including reporting it without defending yourself) already. Heck, you could probably even sue the school board for having you in an unsafe, hostile environment (here, I'm assuming of course that you are in a school in the US).

[Brad Ellin]

I'm not on your side here Shokku. I agree with just about everyone else. Run away. Or walk away. Honor hasn't anything to do with it. Why bring yourself down to someone else's level? Instead, force them to come up to your's. Bump into someone? Say "pardon me". Did it on purpose? Then you have issues that need to be dealt with outside of school (not singling you out, this applies to anyone that goes around purposely bumping into folks). Someone throws the first punch, move out of the way. Can't move away? Move into it. Get close in so they can't throw a decent punch. Clinch. If anyone is going to come away bloody, let it be you. Makes it easier to get the teachers on your side.
Personally, from reading your other posts, I think you have issues that need to be dealt with. And not by taking your anger out on other people. You have a bad attitude and from that it appears you bring some of this upon yourself.
And by the way, you're a Goth not a Gothic.

[MadCat]

As a fellow high schooler, i can tell you that you have a couple of options when someone wants to be a tough guy.

1) Report em. Call it weak, say its gonna get you into more trouble, etc , but its the only way to deal with it if your not going to get into any trouble.

2) Report them. By doing this, the next time they instigate something, and you fight them, you have some ammo to paint a picture that it was him starting trouble. Provided you dont put them into hospital.

3) Stay in a large pack of friends. Safety in numbers. They aint gonna even dream of trying anything if they are outnumbered.

4) Wait for after school. Simple. No teachers, no rules. Might get you into trouble with the police, though.

Personlly, id go with 1 or 2. No matter what they do, they aint worth the worry. 2 only if you really have to get em. 3 = good practice.

[tekkengod]

I can tell you first hand that some people are just so hell bent on keeping their pride that they simply don't care about the consequences, a bump = fight, a joke= a fight, a look - a fight, and usuallya fight = a riot. and the sad thing is, its gotten so bad taht now, its no questions asked. the person who throws the first punch is sent to alternative school {juvey} so, actually, while you will look like a pussy, and it is dishonorable {in a schoolyard scrap anyway} you're better off running if you give a crap about collage or your grades. But if you're looking for safety, madcat is right. safety in numbers. or sometimes not even numbers, just make sure to roll with a gang member, or someone everyone knows isn't screwing around, long as you've got one close friend who won't hesitate to put a slug into your enemies head, you'll be better off.

[Youkai]

Short story.

Picture this chap I went to school with. Quitely spoken, never picked a fight, took loads of rubbish from the "scummier" kids who called him names because he would backout of any confrontation. We'll came him Dave. But Dave still had lots of friends because he was a nice kid.

After several years one of the bullies were giving him a bit of a hard time so he reported it to the school. The bully was spoken too and after decided to "deal" with Dave after school for "squealing". So queue the large gang of kids gathered for the "fight" after school. The bully waits for Dave to appear and tries to instigate a fight. Dave tries everything he can to get away. In the end the bully, unable to prevoke Dave into fighting, says something like "Too chicken" to which Dave replies very softly "No, it's just that you are not worth it". This really get the bully angry and he starts throwing punches. Then would you believe it Dave proceeds to punch the stuffing out of the bully.

Turns out Dave was a pretty good amateur boxer. Of course he took the rubbish dished out by the idiots at school not because he was weak but because he was strong. Did he get into trouble - no because of his history of non-violence, the fact that he had previously reported the other lad and the fact that he tried everthing he could to get away. What he did get was a lot of respect from other kids who also got a lesson in honor that day.

Take what you will from this story.

[Davey Bones]

1. Lose the chip on your shoulder and your life might actually improve. This whole "I hate people" atitude isn't exactly helping your disposition any.

2. You are just itching for a fight, and much of what you said shows it. You've already got your mind made up! Reread your initial post and you'll see exactly what I mean (no one deserves a concussion, sparky, and god help you if you decide to resist arrest as you brag you would do). Hitting people in the side of the necks? Taking out their knees? No wonder you're getting your ass suspended. My god, your posts and responses reek of elitism, arrogance, and anger. Nothig we say is going to change your mind, I suspect.

3. Grow up. Adults bump into each other and we say we're sorry. Someone says something we don't like, we ignore it. Learn to walk away now. Because if you combine your attitude (which sucks, to be frank) with more trouble in school (which I suspect you are hardly an innocent bystander in), you're a primo candidate for juvi if you keep this up. I get clients like you every day, and give them the same advice. GROW UP.

[raizen]

So why do we learn ma? If we are not gona protect our selves? Why not join track and be able to run away from every thing? I do see the point in not fighting but the whole point was to defend our selves this is why we learned to fight. I will let you get buy with about any thing but i on the end of the rope. one last thing school is the real world! it is not a video game! out side of school if some one hits you. you can defind your self and get into no trouble. but indside school were they say it is safe you cant even defend your self.

I went to one of my instructors with this delima he said i should have fought the guy long ago. And to fight the school board tell them suspension for self defense is cruel adn unusual punishment. He said they would probly let me in if i had a witness.

[Jesh]

Honor gets people killed... daily...

[Davey Bones]

I went to one of my instructors with this delima he said i should have fought the guy long ago. And to fight the school board tell them suspension for self defense is cruel adn unusual punishment. He said they would probly let me in if i had a witness.

I asked someone else this, and I'll ask you:

Is your instructor going to pay for your attorney? Will he hire a defense attorney to take you through court and another one ot fight the school board? If he's not willing to pay, then he needs to stop handing out advice that can get you popped and kicked out of school.

[Brad Ellin]

So why do we learn ma? If we are not gona protect our selves? Why not join track and be able to run away from every thing? I do see the point in not fighting but the whole point was to defend our selves this is why we learned to fight. I will let you get buy with about any thing but i on the end of the rope. one last thing school is the real world! it is not a video game! out side of school if some one hits you. you can defind your self and get into no trouble. but indside school were they say it is safe you cant even defend your self.

I went to one of my instructors with this delima he said i should have fought the guy long ago. And to fight the school board tell them suspension for self defense is cruel adn unusual punishment. He said they would probly let me in if i had a witness.

We don't learn MA to pick fights or get thrown in jail or suspended. At least that's not the reason I started nor the reason I stay with it. And school may be part of the real world, and as such what happens there sets the seeds for what you do later in life. If you're a bully in school, you'll be a bully as an adult. Treat others with respect and compassion now, you'll get the saem later in life. And yes, you can defend yourself without getting into a fight. Report, report and if attacked, protect yourself. Fight back, trouble. Cover/leave, and the "Authorities" are more likely to be on your side. Providing you didn't instigate it to start with.

One more thing. We aren't picking on you because we're older. Think of it as some of us have already been there. We haven't forgotten what it's like, it's just not the focus of our day anymore. Learn form our mistakes and triumphs. We're offering the voice of experience. Open your ears and eyes and you may learn something.

[hux]

2. You are just itching for a fight, and much of what you said shows it. You've already got your mind made up! Reread your initial post and you'll see exactly what I mean (no one deserves a concussion, sparky, and god help you if you decide to resist arrest as you brag you would do). Hitting people in the side of the necks? Taking out their knees? No wonder you're getting your ass suspended. My god, your posts and responses reek of elitism, arrogance, and anger. Nothig we say is going to change your mind, I suspect.

that's pretty much what I was thinking.

I went to one of my instructors with this delima he said i should have fought the guy long ago. And to fight the school board tell them suspension for self defense is cruel adn unusual punishment. He said they would probly let me in if i had a witness.

Your instructor should stick to teaching martial arts and leave the legal advice to someone else. You would get laughed right out of there with that crap. I hate to use the word dumbass to describe anybody, but that guy comes pretty close ;)

[pgm316]

I have a problem with the not fighting thing if i do not fight this kid others will see me as an easy target. I mean i will not hit him first by any means but once word gets out i let some one hit me and did jack then it like puting the kick my ass for free sign on my back. So then what do i do? take hell from all the bullies i could easly kill? I do not want my grades to fall that is why i have put up with this kid for 9 frigin weeks!


Best to win a fight verbally when in a situation like this, tell him you'll be ready for a one on one fight when once school is over with. They usually lose their nerve long before it comes to the crunch.

Only fight when its necesary to defend yourself!

[Youkai]

One of the reasons I learn a MA is to learn to defend myself and I don't think anyone has said that you should not defend yourself. The problem for many here is when the option to use violence is made very early in a confrontation when there are other avenues available. Also if the reason to start "defending" yourself is taken not because you could not avoid the fight but that your pride would be hurt if you did not.

Most of the people offering advice have been there done that and bought the T-Shirt. One of the things you learn as you get older is that fights involving adults tend to be very nasty with serious injury/death/jail being one of the many possible consequences and so should be avoided if at all possible. Learn to avoid this kind of trouble now and be a bit smarter in your dealings with people. You get threatened you report it, get threatened again report it again, if you get attacked and have to defend yourself at least you'll have those in authority on your side. It's all about laying the groundwork for a good defense.

Whatever happens just remember not everyone hates goths, I went out with one once - hmmm she was nice ;)

[raizen]

Well the kid hit me today wich was the last straw i punched him in the face 3 time in the solar 1 time and his eyes swoll shut before he left the school to go to the er. the school cop was laughing and all the witnesses said he hit me first so i have a 10 day vacation.

I did not learn to fight so i could get picked on i let it go for a long time. the kid got what he diserved!

[Shokku]

Report that he hit you. Let him get in trouble/suspended. Better yet, let him get a written record of a history of hitting people with no provocation.

It seems you are worried that eventually, you are going to have to take this guy out because he keeps coming after you. So what does it matter if you annoy him by reporting him? If you report him, and then he does come after you later, you can at least say that you tried every avenue at your disposal (including reporting it without defending yourself) already. Heck, you could probably even sue the school board for having you in an unsafe, hostile environment (here, I'm assuming of course that you are in a school in the US).

I agree. In a situation where you have been selected as someone's target, this is excellent advice.

As a fellow high schooler, i can tell you that you have a couple of options when someone wants to be a tough guy.

1) Report em. Call it weak, say its gonna get you into more trouble, etc , but its the only way to deal with it if your not going to get into any trouble.

2) Report them. By doing this, the next time they instigate something, and you fight them, you have some ammo to paint a picture that it was him starting trouble. Provided you dont put them into hospital.

3) Stay in a large pack of friends. Safety in numbers. They aint gonna even dream of trying anything if they are outnumbered.

4) Wait for after school. Simple. No teachers, no rules. Might get you into trouble with the police, though.

Personlly, id go with 1 or 2. No matter what they do, they aint worth the worry. 2 only if you really have to get em. 3 = good practice.

I do. But if they want to engage in combat right then and there, I can exactly say "Wait, just one second - you just hold your arm right there, right behind your head while I go report you, so that after you're carried away on a stretcher (I'm not serious, but I could say that) I won't be held responsible."

One of my friends was a practitioner of some ground art. The other, JKD and Kempo. Yet another, TKD. I'm regularly seen with them, none of which have engaged in an open fight with someone.. on school grounds, anyway. I hae not, either.

After school - interesting. I've considered this, but I don't want to have to take out... err, down the guy's friends, as well. In the fights I've heard of/seen, the friends were always there to take down the guy who beat up their friend. Cheap.

I'm not on your side here Shokku. I agree with just about everyone else. Run away. Or walk away. Honor hasn't anything to do with it. Why bring yourself down to someone else's level? Instead, force them to come up to your's. Bump into someone? Say "pardon me". Did it on purpose? Then you have issues that need to be dealt with outside of school (not singling you out, this applies to anyone that goes around purposely bumping into folks). Someone throws the first punch, move out of the way. Can't move away? Move into it. Get close in so they can't throw a decent punch. Clinch. If anyone is going to come away bloody, let it be you. Makes it easier to get the teachers on your side.
Personally, from reading your other posts, I think you have issues that need to be dealt with. And not by taking your anger out on other people. You have a bad attitude and from that it appears you bring some of this upon yourself.
And by the way, you're a Goth not a Gothic.

Ok, where exactly did everyone get that I'm going down the halls, ramming into people? Firstly, I don't. Secondly, if I did, it would not be intentional, and I would apologize. I was referring to the fact that people like to start fights over common things, like in the instance where someone accidentally opened someone else's bag. Now that that's all cleared up (I'll probably have to explain it again, though...) -

I'm going to walk away bloody... Because someone decided to beat on me for no reason? I don't start fights, but I'll finish one if need be. If someone has a problem with me, and has selected me as their punching bag, they will be reported so as to establish with the school that they are in the offensive. If the school won't deal with them, I will. And I'll tell them that after I'm walked to the office by the SRO. "You didn't handle it - so I had to. Unless you'd like a lawsuit, I suggest you release your grip from my arm and give my a pass for my next class."

I've had the opportunity to sue my school before, for religious intolerance (apparently it's fine to wear a cross to school... but when you see a pentagram, ah! Get the holy water! *ignorance*) - I know of several organizations that would represent me in a lawsuit, some of which I am in regular contact with. That's beside the point, but because of that, they know where I'm coming from.

Most of the time, when someone takes a swing at me (bus stop, gym, locker room) I take it as far as a lock or takedown. No strikes are thrown off my end, but if they don't get the point after that... they usually do. I've been lucky so far, not having had anyone so persistant that they keep getting up - and I've seen that before.

I don't take my anger out on other people - I ignore other people. They're not worth my being upset about. I am however quick to anger when dealing directly with ignorance, and I'm certainly intolerant of it.

I'm Gothic; a Goth. Sorry, typo.

Short story.

Picture this chap I went to school with. Quitely spoken, never picked a fight, took loads of rubbish from the "scummier" kids who called him names because he would backout of any confrontation. We'll came him Dave. But Dave still had lots of friends because he was a nice kid.

After several years one of the bullies were giving him a bit of a hard time so he reported it to the school. The bully was spoken too and after decided to "deal" with Dave after school for "squealing". So queue the large gang of kids gathered for the "fight" after school. The bully waits for Dave to appear and tries to instigate a fight. Dave tries everything he can to get away. In the end the bully, unable to prevoke Dave into fighting, says something like "Too chicken" to which Dave replies very softly "No, it's just that you are not worth it". This really get the bully angry and he starts throwing punches. Then would you believe it Dave proceeds to punch the stuffing out of the bully.

Turns out Dave was a pretty good amateur boxer. Of course he took the rubbish dished out by the idiots at school not because he was weak but because he was strong. Did he get into trouble - no because of his history of non-violence, the fact that he had previously reported the other lad and the fact that he tried everthing he could to get away. What he did get was a lot of respect from other kids who also got a lesson in honor that day.

Take what you will from this story.

I'll have to comment that that was in fact an interesting and meaningful story. I do consider a part of 'honor', define it as you will, to be not engaging in a fight you know you're going to win. I tell people they're not worth my time, and I take crap from people. But I'm not going to take a punch - at least not to the face. I'm not as aggressive as I may come off.

I'd also like to comment that I love seeing the expressions on people's faces when they are, in a soft, firm voice, insulted. That's more fun than beating the stuffing out of them. ^_^

The thing is, there are those people who are constantly argueing and getting physical, but it's because they're both equally offensive. But if you aren't someone who's proven themselves by throwing weak, cocked punches at someone who you've mounted on the ground, you're singled out anyway.

1. Lose the chip on your shoulder and your life might actually improve. This whole "I hate people" atitude isn't exactly helping your disposition any.

2. You are just itching for a fight, and much of what you said shows it. You've already got your mind made up! Reread your initial post and you'll see exactly what I mean (no one deserves a concussion, sparky, and god help you if you decide to resist arrest as you brag you would do). Hitting people in the side of the necks? Taking out their knees? No wonder you're getting your ass suspended. My god, your posts and responses reek of elitism, arrogance, and anger. Nothig we say is going to change your mind, I suspect.

3. Grow up. Adults bump into each other and we say we're sorry. Someone says something we don't like, we ignore it. Learn to walk away now. Because if you combine your attitude (which sucks, to be frank) with more trouble in school (which I suspect you are hardly an innocent bystander in), you're a primo candidate for juvi if you keep this up. I get clients like you every day, and give them the same advice. GROW UP.

Oh my... <PROFANITY>. For the third time: I DO NOT RUN DOWN THE HALLWAYS RAMMING INTO PEOPLE. PLEASE CHECK THE CONTEXT IN WHICH THAT COMMENT WAS USED. I'm attempting, and I guess failing, to convey to you the fact that people, here anyway, seem to enjoy starting fights for NO REASON.

Well, strikes to the neck, causing a bit of diziness, nausea (these are controlled strikes, are a lot better than what I'm trained to do - water wheel. A strike to the neck or the back of the knee, probably a takedown... sounds a lot better than sending six or seven closed-hand strikes per second at someone, does it not? Or, I could go into my (limited) ground fighting instruction, and remove the guy's arm from its socket, or just snap his neck. Do I? No. Would I? More than likely no.

For the record, I don't get into any trouble. One guy came up behind me and took my legs out from under me, and I turned over and sweeped him. He got the point, couldn't say anything because he had it coming and even these teachers couldn't disagree. In another instance someone charged me (football player), and I stepped away from it, sending a strike to his shoulder which sent him to the ground. Again, I didn't get in trouble - first of all, he was dumb. I didn't say anything and he talked his way into trouble. I just agreed with what he said, and he got some sort of punishment. I don't have a history of violence, I am not a violent person by nature. I do enjoy fighting, however I do not start fights (though I will ask a fellow MAist to put on thr gloves with me), but I don't put up with others starting them with me. I keep to myself, minding my own <profane term> business, and yet I'm confronted anyway.

Whatever happens just remember not everyone hates goths, I went out with one once - hmmm she was nice ;)

Umm, okay. Well, this is florida - redneck florida. Everyone hates Goths, excluding the Goths themselves... and maybe the Punks. :-O

Well the kid hit me today wich was the last straw i punched him in the face 3 time in the solar 1 time and his eyes swoll shut before he left the school to go to the er. the school cop was laughing and all the witnesses said he hit me first so i have a 10 day vacation.

I did not learn to fight so i could get picked on i let it go for a long time. the kid got what he diserved!

Flame me if you want, but good for you, Raizen!

I wouldn't so much mind getting suspended, but they're continually threatening us with expulsion and all this other <more profanity>.

The thing is, if I were to hit someone, I'm trained to hit hard, and to prvent them, by means of trapping, from being able to block anything. And, I'm trained to strike with fluidity - last count I send out around seven good strikes per second. That's enough to break the nose, jaw, and to cause both eyes to swell shut. Or I could employ the eye rakes and other strikes to the eyes I'm encouraged to employ in combat. First, I don't like strikes to the eyes. Second, I don't use any of this.

Why are you calling my violent? I'm going to use a takedown, or a technique that will cause pain without any real harm (lock) or a controlled strike to the neck. This isn't violent - if I were violent they'd take the real strikes, followed by a throw, and ending in something that would dislocate their arm (one of about three ground fighting techniques I know -_-)

The fights I have been in, actually small scraps, have been brief, and my techniques proved a point, rather than taking out my opponent.

I fight somewhat like the Shaolin 5 Animal Crane does - I deliver pain (or send them to the ground), as a warning to my opponent, rather than causing actual damage.

I won't take a punch from anyone, but I won't take them out when they've worn away my patience either.

i read like 5 responses and this is all im gonna say what teachers did you guys have and have you ever boxed or anyreal fighting art telling a kid to run !! or best yet to say sorry i say you karate people and your teachers better learn that your learning a combat art that was made for defending from violent people if you teach yourself to run why not take cross country instead of paying 60 a month for coward training and ever bully i fought and won by the way never ever fought me again they learned that getting beat down kinda sucked

I study JKD - if I wanted to take out someone at school, as well as his friends, I could. But I don't want to. I also do not want to take a hit from any of them - and I refuse to. The police come to our studio for lessons - in the adult class. My class sometimes has the opportunity to sparr the adult class. Some of them (*cough*cops) are the losers, others run circles around us.

I don't threaten people, telling them that I know martial arts. The fact that they assume I can't fight proves not only their ignorance but their sheer insolence. I keep a close record of who can fight and who can't - it just so happens that all the MAists are my friends, and none of us have ever had to take anyone out (though a couple have considered it). My reason is that if my opponent is weaker, willingly engaging in a fight with them is dishonorable.

I'm like Steven Seagal's characters - I don't engage in a fight willingly, unless the issue is pressed. I calmly give off insults, and... I'm about as bad an actor as people say he is. The difference is I don't know Aikido. :'(

[PINK BUNNY]

well going back to high school days pretty much everbody could not fight and i would say that the other name for a cat pretty much answers that but if you have to fight which is what you want doing it fast and quietly would be best from there i would also advise to do it aftyer school and show up and win but one must also remember that for the gangsta world winning fair is not a option and jumpings and shootings do happen often and your life is important my finaL SAY AT THIS IS IF YOU HAVE TO ASK YOUR NOT A FIGHTER BUT A MARTAIL ARTIST which means your not prepared for combat at all

[PINK BUNNY]

i read like 5 responses and this is all im gonna say what teachers did you guys have and have you ever boxed or anyreal fighting art telling a kid to run !! or best yet to say sorry i say you karate people and your teachers better learn that your learning a combat art that was made for defending from violent people if you teach yourself to run why not take cross country instead of paying 60 a month for coward training and ever bully i fought and won by the way never ever fought me again they learned that getting beat down kinda sucked

[regs]

For PINK BUNNY:

Could you please learn to use punctuation? It's kinda hard to read a run on non sentence, as I don't see any capital letters in any of your posts so far.

Thanks

Shokku,

I'd say that the best advice is to avoid a fight if possible. I'm not saying that you need just ignore it all if they keep at it, but I'm not saying to just jump right into the fight if they just *try* with taunts and such to get you to fight.

I remember what highschool was like. I'm only 25, and though it was 8 years ago, I can still remember how rough it was. I moved around a lot and was the *new kid* a lot in school. I moved to Nashville with my parents when I was in 9th grade, after having lived in the same small town in VA since I was 5. Went from a school with about 150 students to one with about 2,500 students. Back in VA, we didn't really have different kinds of students. We had jocks, the smart kids, and those in between. That was about it. In Nashville, the school I moved to, we had everything, including 33 different nationalities represented.

After being at Hillsborough High School, I moved back to VA to finish out the year in familiar surroundings with some family. Had some trouble with my parents, my mom and dad had just gotten back together, which was why we moved to begin with. We went to move back in with dad, and he was a bad alcoholic, which was more than I could deal with at that time. I was having a rough enough time with school, and didn't need the added trouble of dealing with a screwed up home life, so, I packed up and went back where I was comfortable, until mom and dad could get things back in order together.

After the end of the school year, I moved back home. Mom and dad decided to move away from Nashville to a little town in KY right across the border. So, new school, Franklin-Simpson High School. Well, things were ok there, but, again began having trouble at home. Now, to go on top of dad's drinking problem, he'd gotten back on drugs and gotten mom on them too. I stayed as long as I could, but, when he almost broke my arm when he was drunk and high, I took that as my cue to head out. I left home that night, and was intending on just catching a bus to wherever, since my aunt couldn't have me there since she was taking care of my grandma then, though she didn't know what I was planning on doing that night.

Hitched a ride back to Nashville, since there was a bus station there and not one open 24/7 in Franklin. Dropped off at my old school to see a friend of mine, got caught and sent to juvi for 24 hours, since I was a runaway. Refused to go back to my parents. Couldn't take the junk going on at home anymore, knew that if I stayed there I'd either end up dead, in jail, or strung out like mom and dad. Went into states custody at age 15.

Bounced from foster home and group home to foster home and group home for about a year. During that time I went to 2 schools in the group homes, mainly little classes that kept us fairly up to speed on what we'd be learning in schools, and 2 schools in the district before I went to the home I ended up staying at until I turned 18. I ended up staying for the end of my junior year and the entirety of my senior year in one school. The first few weeks were rough, but, after I got settled into my ROTC class and made friends with some of the guys there, they kinda became my safety net.

I was always, after moving to Nashville the first time, one of the "smart kids". I began trying in school then, since I was challenged more, and got picked on a little about it, though it was more joking at the school I graduated from, Hunters Lane High School in Goodlettsville, TN (Davidson County Public School system) from my friends. I was friends with all types of kids there, and never had any real problems.

I've found that the best way to avoid problems in school is to try and communicate with people. If someone keeps pushing the envelope and won't let up, then report it. At least that way there will be a record of it if it escalates to the point that you gotta fight it out. All teachers can't be against you, though. Are you sure you aren't just grouping everyone together because of the filter's you are seeing through. The whole goth mentality that says that everyone hates me because of what I choose to look like? Gotta say that that's what I'm thinking.

**********

Now, to everyone who thinks that you gotta fight just because you're paying the money to learn a MA:

Not everyone who takes MA has the same mentality as you all. MA isn't about fighting just because you know how, it's about fighting when all avenues have been explored and there is no way out. It also isn't about fighting full force just to get someone off of you. Here's a quote from "Bubishi" that you need to know. It's the guidebook for all MA's in my opinion and the most sacred text that any MA'ist can have.

This is from Article 14: The Principles of Ancient Law
Quanfa Strategies
"The more you train (in quanfa), the more you will know yourself. Always use circular motion from north to south and do not forget that there is strength in softness. Never underestimate any opponent, and be sure never to use any more force than is absolutely necessary to assure victory, lest you be defeated yourself. these are the principles of ancient law.

Also,

Article 15: Maxims of Sun Zi

1. Know both yourself and your adversary and you will not know defeat.

2. Knowing only yourself and not your adversary reduces your chances by 50%.

3. Knowing neither yourself nor your adversary means certain defeat.

4. Be serious but flexible, employing elusiveness so as not to become a victim of habit.

5. To win without fighting is the highest achievement of a warrior.

You know, if MAists could take to heart what the ancients of the arts have said, those who have been there and done that hundreds of years ago, the systems would be in much better shape.

regan

BTW, don't forget, "we stand on the shoulders of the giants who have gone before us."

[Shokku]

For PINK BUNNY:

Could you please learn to use punctuation? It's kinda hard to read a run on non sentence, as I don't see any capital letters in any of your posts so far.

Thanks

Shokku,

I'd say that the best advice is to avoid a fight if possible. I'm not saying that you need just ignore it all if they keep at it, but I'm not saying to just jump right into the fight if they just *try* with taunts and such to get you to fight.

I remember what highschool was like. I'm only 25, and though it was 8 years ago, I can still remember how rough it was. I moved around a lot and was the *new kid* a lot in school. I moved to Nashville with my parents when I was in 9th grade, after having lived in the same small town in VA since I was 5. Went from a school with about 150 students to one with about 2,500 students. Back in VA, we didn't really have different kinds of students. We had jocks, the smart kids, and those in between. That was about it. In Nashville, the school I moved to, we had everything, including 33 different nationalities represented.

After being at Hillsborough High School, I moved back to VA to finish out the year in familiar surroundings with some family. Had some trouble with my parents, my mom and dad had just gotten back together, which was why we moved to begin with. We went to move back in with dad, and he was a bad alcoholic, which was more than I could deal with at that time. I was having a rough enough time with school, and didn't need the added trouble of dealing with a screwed up home life, so, I packed up and went back where I was comfortable, until mom and dad could get things back in order together.

After the end of the school year, I moved back home. Mom and dad decided to move away from Nashville to a little town in KY right across the border. So, new school, Franklin-Simpson High School. Well, things were ok there, but, again began having trouble at home. Now, to go on top of dad's drinking problem, he'd gotten back on drugs and gotten mom on them too. I stayed as long as I could, but, when he almost broke my arm when he was drunk and high, I took that as my cue to head out. I left home that night, and was intending on just catching a bus to wherever, since my aunt couldn't have me there since she was taking care of my grandma then, though she didn't know what I was planning on doing that night.

Hitched a ride back to Nashville, since there was a bus station there and not one open 24/7 in Franklin. Dropped off at my old school to see a friend of mine, got caught and sent to juvi for 24 hours, since I was a runaway. Refused to go back to my parents. Couldn't take the junk going on at home anymore, knew that if I stayed there I'd either end up dead, in jail, or strung out like mom and dad. Went into states custody at age 15.

Bounced from foster home and group home to foster home and group home for about a year. During that time I went to 2 schools in the group homes, mainly little classes that kept us fairly up to speed on what we'd be learning in schools, and 2 schools in the district before I went to the home I ended up staying at until I turned 18. I ended up staying for the end of my junior year and the entirety of my senior year in one school. The first few weeks were rough, but, after I got settled into my ROTC class and made friends with some of the guys there, they kinda became my safety net.

I was always, after moving to Nashville the first time, one of the "smart kids". I began trying in school then, since I was challenged more, and got picked on a little about it, though it was more joking at the school I graduated from, Hunters Lane High School in Goodlettsville, TN (Davidson County Public School system) from my friends. I was friends with all types of kids there, and never had any real problems.

I've found that the best way to avoid problems in school is to try and communicate with people. If someone keeps pushing the envelope and won't let up, then report it. At least that way there will be a record of it if it escalates to the point that you gotta fight it out. All teachers can't be against you, though. Are you sure you aren't just grouping everyone together because of the filter's you are seeing through. The whole goth mentality that says that everyone hates me because of what I choose to look like? Gotta say that that's what I'm thinking.

**********

Now, to everyone who thinks that you gotta fight just because you're paying the money to learn a MA:

Not everyone who takes MA has the same mentality as you all. MA isn't about fighting just because you know how, it's about fighting when all avenues have been explored and there is no way out. It also isn't about fighting full force just to get someone off of you. Here's a quote from "Bubishi" that you need to know. It's the guidebook for all MA's in my opinion and the most sacred text that any MA'ist can have.

This is from Article 14: The Principles of Ancient Law
Quanfa Strategies
"The more you train (in quanfa), the more you will know yourself. Always use circular motion from north to south and do not forget that there is strength in softness. Never underestimate any opponent, and be sure never to use any more force than is absolutely necessary to assure victory, lest you be defeated yourself. these are the principles of ancient law.

Also,

Article 15: Maxims of Sun Zi

1. Know both yourself and your adversary and you will not know defeat.

2. Knowing only yourself and not your adversary reduces your chances by 50%.

3. Knowing neither yourself nor your adversary means certain defeat.

4. Be serious but flexible, employing elusiveness so as not to become a victim of habit.

5. To win without fighting is the highest achievement of a warrior.

You know, if MAists could take to heart what the ancients of the arts have said, those who have been there and done that hundreds of years ago, the systems would be in much better shape.

regan

BTW, don't forget, "we stand on the shoulders of the giants who have gone before us."

Awesome post. Any chance you could post the names of the texts you got that from? I'm very interested in philosophy, but have really only gotten what I know from my Sifu.

Repeating myself here: For the record, I'd like to clarify exactly how I 'fight' (at school):
1) Taunts mean nothing to me. I don't get into curse-fights, either. I don't threaten others. If someone says something that leaves them open to cruel sarcasm, I do take the opportunity to respond verbally at that point.

2) If someone has selected me as their target, and they don't back off after being warned, I will then report them to a higher 'authority'.

3) I only respond physically when an actual attempt to strike me is made. Even then, I never respond with full force - if I did, a couple people would be dead and I would be incarcerated.

4) The techniques I do respond with are not techniques that would cause any long-term damage. Painful locks, takedowns, one of the few throws I know, or a simple (controlled) strike to the neck to cause diziness. These prove a point - if you don't back off, I'm going to have to send you to the ground again. This point, typically, is clearly conveyed the first time.

5) I don't fight with my ego. If someone slaps me as a taunting gesture (they don't know how to use a slap as an attack), they aren't going to get anything more than a cold stare (the same one they've been getting since they've entered my realm, in my face). I respond only when an actual attempt at harming me is made. I am trained to fight offensively and basically implode my opponent's skull when the opportunity arises, though I am more attracted to the throwing arts (which I'm looking into).

I don't mean to come off as aggressive, my words are short and may be cold. The simple fact is, when someone throws a punch at me, I throw them (well, this is what I'd like to do, but for now it's just takedowns, etc.).

To clarify, I posted this...
"1. Don't get into one.
And if someone is having a bad day and you bump into them in the hall?"
I don't see how you've managed to twist this into me violently attacking someone who bumps into me in the hall. The comment is self-explanitory: If you (I) bump into someone in the hall, and they're having a bad day (want to start a fight for no reason)... Simply put - people start crap over nothing. Understand? Excellent. ^_^ Now let's move on to basic punctuation - if you'd all open your books to page...

EDIT: I tend to group everyone together, because in my experience, everyone is generally as ignorant as everyone else. Mankind is ignorant. Sorry if those who actually aren't weren't caught in my filter of people I don't hate. But, you know, you're (no you.. the ignorant peoples :-O) grouping me with the Satanists (yes, it's capitalized. It's a religion and whether or not you recognize it as such, it is what it is) who use the inverted pentagram as their symbol... originally used by Christians, and later Pagans and Wiccans. By the way - it's not just that I'm Gothic, it's because of my beliefs.

If you read the primary law of the Wiccan religion, found in the Wiccan Rede, it reads "Do as you will, as it harms none." Yeah, we're awful people who sacrifice children. NO! WE'RE NOT! I really don't want to start a religious debate here, but who's responsible for more deaths - the Christians (who generally dislike if not hate us) or us, the Wiccans? Let's check the history books, shall we?
*IGNORANCE* *DISCRIMINATION* *HYPOCRISY*
I'm sorry I have a negative view of mankind - BUT IT HAS A NEGATIVE VIEW OF ME. And I'm not going to start a religious debate with those who feel the need to go around telling everyone what's wrong with their religion (which is, by the way, very un-Jesuslike). What's funny is, most of them only go to church because their parents make them, and they know nothing of their own religion. And they dare question mine?

So how about this: everyone stop telling me that I have a bad attitude.

There's my rant. I'm done. Feel free to roast me - at present, you're still having trouble getting the fire started.

[regs]

Shokku,

The text I quoted was "The Bible of Karate: Bubishi" as translated from the ancient texts passed from teacher to student in Okinawa after it came from China, translated by Patrick McCarthy. You should be able to get it from Amazon for under 10-12$ or have it ordered by any major bookstore in your area.

Now, I'm not saying that you are in general an aggressive guy, but I am saying that your views of people are colored by something, whether that be the experiences you've had in life or not, I don't know, as I don't personally know you. I will say that I had a lot of Goth friends in school, many of them were Wiccans come to think of it. I, however, was a Christian in highschool, and, yes, we'd have debates in school, but never outright fights, and, we'd come back later in the day and be fine. It was understood that I didn't judge them by their religion and they didn't judge me by mine. Just wasn't done that way, and, yes, you are right, it is very UNCHRISTLIKE to *hate* someone based on a simple pendant and the style of someone's clothes.

Here's an example:

The other day I was walking to work, and cut down this sidestreet to avoid the main road. It's more peaceful on St. James Ave than it is on King Ave, lot less traffic and the tree's are simple beautiful. It was a bit nippy outside, so, was wearing jeans and my hoody. I usually wear my work hat because I tend to forget it if I'm not wearing it. Had my headphones on, hat on, and to cover my ears, had my hood up on my hoody. Now, I was walking along, always have a kind word to say to anyone I meet, usually at least wave if someone looks at me, and walked past this little old lady getting in her car. She was having trouble getting her walker in the car after her, and I started to offer to help her. When she saw me coming across the street to offer her help, though, she sped up, and shut the car door and locked it.

I will admit, for a moment there, I was a bit miffed. I know what you mean by *social profiling*. I'm a white girl, age 25, listening to a hard core rock cd, wearing a Vulcan hoody and carrying a backpack, therefore, I've gotta be trouble. Little old lady's better hurry up and get in the car and lock the doors, I'm liable to mug them. Oh, yeah, right...the laptop I've got in my backpack has gotta be more expensive than the cash they got on them, and of course there's my work uniform and my gi, but, that doesn't count, does it?

Anyways, yeah, I've been the victim of social profiling. Used to get it all the time when I was back in Nashville, since I was doing swordfighting. Used to always have knives and swords and stuff in the car, and, of course anyone that looked in the car when I had the garb in the car always thought I had to be wack. Didn't help any that I'd have the cape and everything in the car. Or, how bout when we'd get through with practice and all of us would go down to grab something to eat in our outfits? Did get quiet a few stares then...a lot of them were less than friendly. More like "Look at those freaks". Kinda like how Vernon Dursely is described in chapter 1 of Sorcers Stone.

I feel ya, man, just don't get a superior attitude. Know your opponents, always. Always strive to understand them and never underestimate them. To know them and yourself gaurantees success, but if you get cocky, grasshopper, you will be defeated.

At any rate, rant is over...gotta do some housecleaning.

regan

[Davey Bones]

Oh my... <PROFANITY>. For the third time: I DO NOT RUN DOWN THE HALLWAYS RAMMING INTO PEOPLE. PLEASE CHECK THE CONTEXT IN WHICH THAT COMMENT WAS USED. I'm attempting, and I guess failing, to convey to you the fact that people, here anyway, seem to enjoy starting fights for NO REASON.(

You want to know where we're getting this from? Reread you first two posts on page one.

In the first you talk about acting like a rabid doberman, and in the second one you talk real tough. As you can see, none of us are impressed with the attitude.

If you like the philosophy, try any of the major Daoist works, google Sun Zi, or even pick up the Tao of Pooh and the Teh of Piglet. Or something by Mahatma Ghando or MLK, Jr. Cuz you really need to lose some of the anger; been there done that and if you don't, it will mess you up.

[Davey Bones]

i read like 5 responses and this is all im gonna say what teachers did you guys have and have you ever boxed or anyreal fighting art telling a kid to run !! or best yet to say sorry i say you karate people and your teachers better learn that your learning a combat art that was made for defending from violent people if you teach yourself to run why not take cross country instead of paying 60 a month for coward training and ever bully i fought and won by the way never ever fought me again they learned that getting beat down kinda sucked

We have to work within the framework of the law, that's what makes us Martial Artists and them THUGS.

If an instructor is going around telling people to just beat up anyone who gives them a hard time, I have two things to say:

1. Lose the Geek Dreams and stop living in your own sad past.
2. Learn the law before your school gets closed down.

[Shokku]

You want to know where we're getting this from? Reread you first two posts on page one.

In the first you talk about acting like a rabid doberman, and in the second one you talk real tough. As you can see, none of us are impressed with the attitude.

If you like the philosophy, try any of the major Daoist works, google Sun Zi, or even pick up the Tao of Pooh and the Teh of Piglet. Or something by Mahatma Ghando or MLK, Jr. Cuz you really need to lose some of the anger; been there done that and if you don't, it will mess you up.

Perhaps the doberman comment was unnecessary and unrealistic. ^_^ What I was trying to convey is that I am going to fight to show, if not them than the public, the fact that their stupidity is clouding their already poor judgement.

I.. talk tough in my second post? What? I'm stating the fact that all the power anyone has is fear of punshment, and others yielding to their demand for blind obedience, which is caused by that fear?

This is the only thing I could think of you thinking of as 'tough':
"I don't fear punishment. You want to expel me? Okay, I'm going to go buy some reference texts and focus more on my MA so that I'm actually learning something. Hey! Guess what! I can do it in less than NINE HOURS a day, too! But, let's see... if I spend nine hours studying on my own... in a year... I'll be able to skip two grades and laugh in your face about it! Awesome! That's sarcasm - but sadly, it's true here."

I'm serious. I'm not going to purposely get expelled, but that would offer me a chance to actually learn something other than what I get from books and research I do on my own time.

Other than that, the chains and blades, yeah, that's pretty much how I dress, and not to look 'tough'. You think I care what others think of me? I couldn't care less what these 'people' think.

I'm assuming you're being sarcastic about the great philosophical texts of pooh and Piglet... If not, I'm scared.

EDIT: And no attempt to impress anyone has been made up to this point.

[Davey Bones]

Actually, the Tao of Pooh and the Teh of Piglet are considered to be two of the most accessible and comprehensible works on the basics of the Tao. The author's name is Benjamin Hoff, and every Buddhist and Taoist and serious MAer I've ever met has considered these to be two very good philosophical (if only for the layman) texts. Go read them. check them out from the library, don't pay for them. Guaranteed you'd find something worthwhile in them.

[Shokku]

Actually, the Tao of Pooh and the Teh of Piglet are considered to be two of the most accessible and comprehensible works on the basics of the Tao. The author's name is Benjamin Hoff, and every Buddhist and Taoist and serious MAer I've ever met has considered these to be two very good philosophical (if only for the layman) texts. Go read them. check them out from the library, don't pay for them. Guaranteed you'd find something worthwhile in them.

Okay. I was a bit apprehensive because of the correlation between these works and the children's show...

Thanks for the recommendation.

[Serpent]

Other than that, the chains and blades, yeah, that's pretty much how I dress, and not to look 'tough'. You think I care what others think of me? I couldn't care less what these 'people' think.
My situation is kind of similar to yours. I'm in high school and my style is what them kids think is gangster. I get the stupid question "are you a gangster" like once a week. I always respond with "No". I dress like this because I like it not to look tough or anything. Anyone have suggestions?

[Kwajman]

The tao of pooh?????

[Davey Bones]

Smartass. I know at your age you've heard of Winnie the Pooh?!?

[Kwajman]

:) Well yea, but I've never read it. I just thought it was a philosophical topic book. It really does have to do with buddhism and stuff?

[MartialArtN00b]

In highschool, youre not exactly fighting for anything serious. Its not like your going to get mugged in the hall or threatened at gunpoint.

So yes, fights can be avoided in high school.

[Jesh]

Anyone have suggestions?

Different clothes ???

:bang:

[tekkengod]

In highschool, youre not exactly fighting for anything serious. Its not like your going to get mugged in the hall or threatened at gunpoint.

So yes, fights can be avoided in high school.

ummm.....yes you will, getting mugged is very common, there was a kid that got a gun on campus 2 weeks ago.

And to be honest, alot of those fights are not avoidable unless you travel in a group.

[Serpent]

ummm.....yes you will, getting mugged is very common, there was a kid that got a gun on campus 2 weeks ago.

And to be honest, alot of those fights are not avoidable unless you travel in a group.
It really depends on where the high school is located. If you're in a 'normal' area then the worst that can happen is a fight. Now in some of the more bad places you can get jumped. That's what I've seen.

[Davey Bones]

:) Well yea, but I've never read it. I just thought it was a philosophical topic book. It really does have to do with buddhism and stuff?

Yuppers.

[KurtCobain2902]

I don't get why people think other people should have to get bullied. If someone mouths off just for the sake of being an *******, they deserve to get hit. Why should I have to risk my body by lowering myself to only "bear hugs" or whatever, when he's the one being a dumbass?

[KurtCobain2902]

I don't get why people think other people should have to get bullied. If someone mouths off just for the sake of being an *******, they deserve to get hit. Why should I have to risk my body by lowering myself to only "bear hugs" or whatever, when he's the one being a dumbass?

[BST]

Hopefully, i can lean this all in the right direction.

Yes, get the chip of your shoulder and the knife off your necklace, if anything is "dishonorable" its a knife worn around your neck. people like other people and people dont like other people, goth or not its not natural to "hate" everyone.

On the other hand, yes it is bull that both students involved get 10 days off (at least in my highscool its 10 days, your maximum before you start losing credits, bull again). A fight does not always have to be provoked, one guy could just hit the other guy, makes sence. getting hit in the face does and WILL not make me turn around and run away. getting hit in the face WILL not make me cover my face and hope it stops. the word honor is a personal preference, it is a steriotype to most people. being dishonored could mean getting the snot beat out of you while u sat there crying into your wrists while you are blocking, and honor would be to not let you take a beating, while giving the guy what i would think he deserves. or honor could be to not fight and run away. running away will only lead to further trouble, if your school is like mine, you would have to be an olympic runner to avoid a single fight the whole year. people will look down upon you, which is not good when 1% of the school is your friend, and the other 99% says your a pu...well yeah.

Self defence is a word for a reason, it has meaning, and it is used. Self defence should be a last resort, but it cant always be as easy as people with adrenaline free kidneys say it is. So older people, please recognize that school yard fights arent what they used to be in this stoner infested world, kids can be a lot meaner now.

so i didnt post this to make enemy's, but to make things even, to fix the thread rather. i hope people that would cry into their wrists and people that would make it stop, understand that either way, we recieve the same concequinces(sp its late)

[rizal]

I thought the solution is obvious
1) Don't fight in school grounds
2) Fight outside school grounds

In other words, it is Sun Tzu's pick your battleground maxim.

If we talking high school here, providing you learned MA for a few years and not a few months, I think is easy to just block/parry/divert your opponent's attacks. Most of my few fights in high school never come to blows since my opponents usually backed off (with a few taunting words thrown) when they saw that their attacks are ineffective.

different if we are talking about elementary school. i taught some silat to my nephews but i always told them just protect their faces and bodies while try to seek help.
oh, and don't let yourself pulled into a deserted place.

[AciDRaiN]

Yes the public school system is stupid. No denying that. Its sad really, this sytem is teaching kids to be weak, to back down to everyone, to not stand up for themselves or others. It's because our system teaches kids these low standards of defending themselves or others that you hear stories of a 70 year old guy being beaten to death by some punk kids on a busy street and no one stops to help because they are afraid to stop and help. Weak kids who are afraid to stand up for themselves or others become weak adults who are afraid to stand up.

Maybe this is why gangs are becoming such a problem. People are afraid to stand up for themselves. People just lay down and take it and expect our police to take care of it, our government.

If some kid is picking on you beat the living crap out of him, make a name for yourself and it will get around fast. That is what I had to do in High School. I got picked on in Jr High, did nothing. It continued, I did nothing, just took it. Went to the teachers, tried that, but if they didn't see it happen then it didn't happen in their minds. Finally one day I got fed up and beat the living snot out of the kid, got suspended for 1 week, my dad was proud of me. In high school when the older kids tried to trash can me or push me around all it took was about 1-2 fights a year and they left me the hell alone. Word gets around when your a freshmen beating the crap out of seniors, people leave you alone, and if they don't then you can't back down because they gets around even faster.

I will not promote someone to stand by and take being harassed, especially when its physical.

One thing the master of my style told me one time that made a lot of since to me was "If someone mugs you and you do nothing, you might have killed someone later. If you beat the will to hurt others out of that mugger you might have saved someones life in the future."

That makes since to me. Same goes for school bullies, if you beat them while they are young, beat some respect into them maybe in the future you might have saved someones life because that bully learned he can't treat people that way.

I don't really care if anyone agrees with me, just the way I see things.

AciDRaiN

[Yama Tombo]

It's easy to walk away from a fight in school, but kids will harass you even more; on and off school grounds the harassment continues. When I was in school, I remember, a jock was messing with some kid. (I think the kid said something the jock didn't like) The kid walked away from the jock. Off of school grounds the jock and some of his friends beat that kid up, badly. I believe that kid was with another friend who was also beaten, but not as bad. Anyway, the kid had to have some stitches on his face, and had a couple of broken ribs.

Also, there was a fight in the cafeteria some kid came out of no where an threw a canned coke in some kids face as he ate. I forgot why, I think the guy (one eating) messed around with the other guy's (the one that threw the coke) girlfriend.

[Timmy Boy]

I'm actually going to stick up for Shokku here. I think most of you guys are missing the point. You're advising/criticising him as if the people he has to deal with are reasonable adults. They're not. They're insecure teenagers who care about ego above all else and will pick any reason (or sometimes no reason at all) to start a fight. They're determined not to let things go, and if you guys think walking away or apologising always works in these situations, then I wish I had been at your schools, then maybe I wouldn't have been bullied myself since the kids at your schools were about 500 times more mature. Shokku isn't dealing with sensible, mature people, so don't try to advise him as if he is.

The worst culprits of this are Kurohana and GangrelChilde. Sorry Kurohana, but your advice is just plain unrealistic, unfair and stupid. I can't believe you would actually advise him to let himself get beaten up just so that the teachers will be on his side. People like you are always happy to criticise people like Shokku, yet you're never there to criticise or apprehend the people who actually start the fights. And GangrelChilde, you're confusing law with morals. Law is about maintaining order and applying a workable system of justice, morals are about what's fair on an individual basis. Regardless of what the law says, I don't believe Shokku is doing anything morally wrong, so stop talking to him like he's a thug.

I don't hold back when people start on me either, and there's nothing thuggish about it. It's not to demonstrate how good I am at fighting, it's because I know that if I don't I'm drastically reducing my chances of successfully defending myself. You might think it's acceptable for Shokku to get the crap beaten out of him for no reason, but I don't.

[Yama Tombo]

Timmy: All four of you are right, Shokku, Kurohana, GangrelChilde, and you. It's just that Kurohana and GangrelChilde are at the opposite ends of the spectrum from you. (Sho and you) I have in between view point of both arguments. As the saying goes,"Theres always a time and place for everything." Fighting in school is rather crude; trained students in martial arts should realize sometimes the best offense is a good defense. You should play defense in school, and play offense outside school. But watch how you use your art.

[Timmy Boy]

Timmy: All four of you are right, Shokku, Kurohana, GangrelChilde, and you. It's just that Kurohana and GangrelChilde are at the opposite ends of the spectrum from you. (Sho and you) I have in between view point of both arguments. As the saying goes,"Theres always a time and place for everything." Fighting in school is rather crude; trained students in martial arts should realize sometimes the best offense is a good defense. You should play defense in school, and play offense outside school. But watch how you use your art.

Oh yeah, I'm not saying that you should always use violence in every situation, or that you shouldn't try to avoid the fight if you can. But at the same time, you can't reason with unreasonable people. You can try and talk your way out, but what if they don't want to listen? You can walk away, but what if they follow you and attack you from behind? I just think that people should think about the kind of person they're dealing with before they give out this kind of advice.

So yes, you should try to avoid fights, but sometimes fighting is the only thing you can do, and when that happens, you can't afford to think about the law on self defence. You need to do whatever you can to end the confrontation as quickly as possible. This is what annoys me about reasonable force in self defence law - how the hell are you supposed to judge what the proportionate amount of force would be when you don't know what your attacker is capable of?

But then, of course, since we're martial artists, we're all just walking war gods, so we can just pick and choose techniques at our leisure when we're attacked :rolleyes:

[Shokku]

Different clothes ???

:bang:

You don't change who you are because of who someone else is, because they're an idiot, or because lot's of people are idiots. People ask me all the time if I worship the devil because I wear a pentacle. The pentacle symbolizes the five elements, Spirit and Air, Fir, Water, and Earth (in order of density). It represents one God (Spirit) ruling over a world of matter (the other four elements) when the point if up, which is how I wear it.

Am I going to stop wearing a pentacle because people are ignorant? No, I'm not. No one should.

[Matt_Bernius]

So yes, you should try to avoid fights, but sometimes fighting is the only thing you can do, and when that happens, you can't afford to think about the law on self defence. You need to do whatever you can to end the confrontation as quickly as possible. This is what annoys me about reasonable force in self defence law - how the hell are you supposed to judge what the proportionate amount of force would be when you don't know what your attacker is capable of?What most people want are black and white views of issues, Tim. But the world doesn't comply to that. Like it or not the force continuum is here to stay. And it quite frankly needs to be. Otherwise we are essentially giving permission to use lethal force in any self defense scenario (to carry it to a probable extreme).

However, and GC might disagree, I don't see that many cases of defenders being thrown in jail for self defense. Perhaps I'm wrong, but provided the person has a clean record and a good story I expect that the defendant/defender is often given the benefit of the doubt.

- Matt

[pgm316]

I'm actually going to stick up for Shokku here. I think most of you guys are missing the point. You're advising/criticising him as if the people he has to deal with are reasonable adults. They're not. They're insecure teenagers who care about ego above all else and will pick any reason (or sometimes no reason at all) to start a fight. They're determined not to let things go, and if you guys think walking away or apologising always works in these situations, then I wish I had been at your schools, then maybe I wouldn't have been bullied myself since the kids at your schools were about 500 times more mature. Shokku isn't dealing with sensible, mature people, so don't try to advise him as if he is.

The worst culprits of this are Kurohana and GangrelChilde. Sorry Kurohana, but your advice is just plain unrealistic, unfair and stupid. I can't believe you would actually advise him to let himself get beaten up just so that the teachers will be on his side. People like you are always happy to criticise people like Shokku, yet you're never there to criticise or apprehend the people who actually start the fights. And GangrelChilde, you're confusing law with morals. Law is about maintaining order and applying a workable system of justice, morals are about what's fair on an individual basis. Regardless of what the law says, I don't believe Shokku is doing anything morally wrong, so stop talking to him like he's a thug.

I don't hold back when people start on me either, and there's nothing thuggish about it. It's not to demonstrate how good I am at fighting, it's because I know that if I don't I'm drastically reducing my chances of successfully defending myself. You might think it's acceptable for Shokku to get the crap beaten out of him for no reason, but I don't.

I agree with Tim on this, I don't know what kind of schools some of you went to but being polite doesn't always talk your way of of a fight. And running off :D Well that might work, until they catch up with you as they will do seeing as you see them everyday... When they'll be even more ready to fight.

If Shokku is trully defending himself without provoking the fight in any way, then I will not blame him one bit!

Often these attackers don't want a fight! They just want an easy target to bully. And telling him to appear like an easy target will likely increase the amount of conflict he has.

[tekkengod]

Tims right, most of these guys don't need a reason, the skys blue? then its on!

[Shokku]

First off, I'm getting The Complete Works of Lao Tzu for Christmas. I'm excited. :-O

Second, to whoever said that wearing a knife on a necklace is dishonorable... you're an idiot. I can't see how you can label that as dishonorable. It's a razor blade necklace. What the hell does honor have to do with what kind of necklace you wear?

Okay, I'd like to restate my position on this thread. I don't like humans, because humans are ignorant. They are insolent, and I label them as incompetent because they don't do their jobs correctly. This isn't all humans, but humans in general. Now that we've cleared that up...

I do not fight back because of pride. It has nothing to do with pride. If it were about pride I wouldn't let the things go that I do. The point at which I physically harm someone is the point at which they attempt to do so to me.

I fight back because if someone is insolent enough to attack me, they're going to get what they deserve. I'm going to show them that they will respect me. Odds are they attacked me because they're (a) ignorant, (b) arehaving a bad day, or (c) both.

Talking your way out of things doesn't work. In terms of confrontation, it's hard enough to find a reasonable adult, let alone a reasonable adolescent. Now, I don't know if the whole world is like this, but these are rednecks, who seem to think they can take anyone, and enjoy provoking others for no reason.

It's nice when you can choose the field for a fight. But unless it's a cage fight I'm not scheduling it. If they want to fight me, they can do it right there. Another thing about the school system is that compared to countries such as Japan, we're stupid, are we not? I'm going to go ahead andblame that on the incompeetence of the people who put together our education system. I'm going to try to take most of my classes online next year, anyway. I'm pointing this out because if Im going to be suspended, so be it. I can learn more on my own, anyway. The school wastes my time anyway, using all their resources on the remedial students anyway, which is great, but I expect to not be ignored. Anyway... off topic here.

I don't have to beat someone into the ground to defend myself, nor would I. But I am going to remove them from my realm (get them out of my face). If they means that have to be crying, bleeding, or unconscious, so be it. If they keep coming back, what happens to them is their own fault. If they died it would be their fault! Because they were insolent enough to confront a superior combatant, a warrior even.

The thing is, when you watch two people who can't fight fight, it's kind of like watching two patients from a mental asylum fighting. You'll find it's very disorganized. It usually starts out with horribly executed strikes being thrown, then tends to go the ground. You'll also find it's more difficult to fight someone flailing violently than it is someone using correctly executed movements.

Now, I've learned the strikes and blocks, and parries, and have studied trapping (and still am), and have had a brief look at throwing, and ground fighting, so I can, to some extent, choose how I'm going to deal with my assailant. However I'm probably not going to be too concerned with my assailant's safety, should I be confronted, so my reflexive action may be a technique that's likely to knock them out.

"Should you ride against me on the field, I shall honor your courage, however insolent, with a swift death." This is basically what the mindset of the Samurai was. I'm into the martial arts for the science of combat.

The point of this thread was basically that the school system sucks, and the people who get to decide who is going to be punished for their actions often don't deserve a position giving them any amount of authority, because they're often obviously too stupid to fairly and correctly use that position. The point is that the one who started the fight is the one who needs to be punished - the aggressor, not the defender.

I do however like the fact that there is nothing in the code of conduct about throwing someone who attacks you... it only specifies striking in the sections that talk about fighting... and throwing can be purely defensive, plus it looks really cool. But again, I'm not sure how you use a throw on someone who is flailing violently!

I don't provoke fights. I do defend myself. I don't take anything from anyone. The fact that I am more 'powerful' than they and could win without hurting them makes no difference. I have every right to fight to the best of my ability, just as they would if someone picked a fight with them. Insolence is dangerous. I wouldn't start a war, but I would surely be the first to end one.

[Yama Tombo]

No, timmy, we're not war gods that pick out techniques when we are attacked. We are people trained in martial arts that should be tactful.

[Shokku]

I would however prefer the title of wargod. :-O

[Timmy Boy]

No, timmy, we're not war gods that pick out techniques when we are attacked. We are people trained in martial arts that should be tactful.

What you mean is we assume that we're so superior to untrained people in terms of fighting ability that we don't need to try hard and use every tool at our disposal in order to win. Which is arrogant and wrong. Even high-ranking martial artists get beaten in streetfights with untrained people, so if you want to assume you can always win despite limiting your techniques because you're so skilled, be my guest.

[GojuKJoe]

I'm with Timmy and Shokku.

In the school I went to (which was by no means a rough "ghetto" school) the chances are, if someone decides to start a fight with you, all of his friends will soon be involved aswell. I've seen on several occasions, one person get jumped on and badly beaten up by sometimes more than 10 other people. Yet I've also seen one guy stand up to about 10 people and hit one so hard that it scared the others enough not to want to fight him.

That's what the best thing to do is in my experience, if you have the ability to defend yourself, you should do it, and in school, giving someone a bit of a beating may even help you in the future, because less people will want to mess with you.

High school is not the same as the "real world" and children are not the same as adults, so different psychology and rules apply.

[JayKayD]

I study JKD - if I wanted to take out someone at school, as well as his friends, I could. But I don't want to. I also do not want to take a hit from any of them - and I refuse to. The police come to our studio for lessons - in the adult class. My class sometimes has the opportunity to sparr the adult class. Some of them (*cough*cops) are the losers, others run circles around us.

I'm like Steven Seagal's characters - I don't engage in a fight willingly, unless the issue is pressed. I calmly give off insults, and... I'm about as bad an actor as people say he is. The difference is I don't know Aikido. :'(

I don't provoke fights. I do defend myself. I don't take anything from anyone. The fact that I am more 'powerful' than they and could win without hurting them makes no difference. I have every right to fight to the best of my ability, just as they would if someone picked a fight with them. Insolence is dangerous. I wouldn't start a war, but I would surely be the first to end one.

Oh my god, could you be any more up your own ass? Have you ever actually been in a fight or do you just fantasise about beating up the people that pick on you? Every person i have met who has an attitude like yours have no idea how a real fight goes. Steven Seagal! AHAHAHA, only in your head mate. Get real, and lose the cliched goth-angst.

[Yama Tombo]

What you mean is we assume that we're so superior to untrained people in terms of fighting ability that we don't need to try hard and use every tool at our disposal in order to win. Which is arrogant and wrong. Even high-ranking martial artists get beaten in streetfights with untrained people, so if you want to assume you can always win despite limiting your techniques because you're so skilled, be my guest.

Ok, my previous statements were ambiguous, and were sort of might that way. So, all assumptions were on your part.

"Playing defense in school" Do what you can to avoid a fight. Most fights in school are not to severely injury or kill someone. So, talk your way out of a fight in school. If you can't reason with them, block (dodge, duck, dive, instep, outstep, and etc) the punches and/or kicks.

"Playing offense outside school" Do what you can to protect yourself (that includes running away). It's anyone's game then.


We are people trained in martial arts that should be tactful

Has nothing to do with being superior, if thats what I meant, I wouldn't have used the word "tactful" to put things in more human prospective. We can't win all fights, and we also can be injuried. Otherwise, assume what you will.

[AciDRaiN]

Ok, my previous statements were ambiguous, and were sort of might that way. So, all assumptions were on your part.
Do what you can to avoid a fight. Most fights in school are not to severely injury or kill someone. So, talk your way out of a fight in school. If you can't reason with them, block (dodge, duck, dive, instep, outstep, and etc) the punches and/or kicks.
Do what you can to protect yourself (that includes running away). It's anyone's game then.
Has nothing to do with being superior, if thats what I meant, I wouldn't have used the word "tactful" to put things in more human prospective. We can't win all fights, and we also can be injuried. Otherwise, assume what you will.

Even if you dodge, duck, dive, instep, outstep and etc your still involved in a fight and will be suspended. Back in Jr high I had a friend who did just that when he got jumped by 3 dudes, he did everything he could to get away, never tried to hit anyone back, eventually he curled up in a ball and just got kicked for awhile. When he got up he went to the office and they still suspended him for being involved in a fight. Might is well let everyone know your not going to be bullied and beat the crap out of him and then get suspended. Atleat then when you come back you have more respect for yourself, others have more respect for you, and you can enjoy not being picked on for awhile.

You run away from a fight and every single day of school will be hell for a kid. That's what pushes kids who are afraid to defend themselves because they do not want to get in trouble over the edge and they bring a gun to school and shoot the people that picked on them then shoot themselves so they do not get in trouble.

AciDRaiN

[AciDRaiN]

I study JKD - if I wanted to take out someone at school, as well as his friends, I could. But I don't want to. I also do not want to take a hit from any of them - and I refuse to. The police come to our studio for lessons - in the adult class. My class sometimes has the opportunity to sparr the adult class. Some of them (*cough*cops) are the losers, others run circles around us.

I don't threaten people, telling them that I know martial arts. The fact that they assume I can't fight proves not only their ignorance but their sheer insolence. I keep a close record of who can fight and who can't - it just so happens that all the MAists are my friends, and none of us have ever had to take anyone out (though a couple have considered it). My reason is that if my opponent is weaker, willingly engaging in a fight with them is dishonorable.

I'm like Steven Seagal's characters - I don't engage in a fight willingly, unless the issue is pressed. I calmly give off insults, and... I'm about as bad an actor as people say he is. The difference is I don't know Aikido. :'(

How old are you? I'm guessing since you are not in the adult class yet your about 12 maybe 14 and thats pushing it. I seriously doubt you can beat a untrained cop much less a cop who is training no matter what his skill level is yet.

Obviously you look at everyone and think they cannot fight as well as you. How do you know your opponent is weaker? Because he doesn't brag about being in MA? Because hes the small kid that doesn't talk to a lot of people? Because you have never seen him fight? You would be very surprised at what the small unpopular kids can do at that age. Some of the more experienced fighters I've watched street fight have been the small dudes that don't talk big or brag about their skill.

Not all the people who train in MA are your friends. Only the people who brag about their MA are your friends, the people who want to make it known they know MA and make themselves look good. There are some people who don't brag to everyone how much MA they know and those are normally the ones that are very good at what they do and do not feel the need to brag.

AciDRaiN

[Dano1b]

Well in my opinion, If you got to defend you'r self,defend yourself, if you think you'r gonna die defend you'r self. But you know their is consquences to everything you do, I think you look at it in your own opinion to much, well if you ever hit a guy in school the cops will look at it in their own opinion, not as you use defense, but as you acted in violence. Its the law, their is nothing you can do. infact its really more how people think. the real question is, Do you want probation? all this covering up defence stuff is stupid , its simple , dont fight. Dont start fights. Walk away, shut you'r mouth.
I went to school that had fights everyday, never got in one.
(Being on probation is better than dieing, but it's your choice) Point is if you'r sensitive towards other people's feelings you'll never fight. and If you really got a problem with the law, try and go to the school board maybe they will assume the guy you gave a black eye to, that you used self defense.

(Obviously you wanna copy off your friend, hopefully if he ever jumps of a bridge you won't go with him) (Also fighting out of school i know a guy who got probation for that) Oh jeez, My friend should'nt of died maybe ill go do it to!

Reffering To Shokku

[brahman]

First off . . . it's high school. What are they going to do? Stomp you into jelly?

.
i really havent read the other post so forgive me if i seem stupid but......




have you have been to a school where you see 5-6 guys kicking some poor kid on the ground because he is fag/looser.

[Timmy Boy]

Do what you can to avoid a fight. Most fights in school are not to severely injury or kill someone. So, talk your way out of a fight in school. If you can't reason with them, block (dodge, duck, dive, instep, outstep, and etc) the punches and/or kicks.

It's the last sentence in this paragraph that highlights what I mean. Unless you are incredibly superior to your opponent and you can block EVERY SINGLE ATTACK, sooner or later they will penetrate your defence. And you will get hurt. Since we're not automatically superior fighters simply because we're martial artists, it would be unrealistic to assume we can just block everything and avoid getting hurt ourselves. We're just not that good. We, like all the other mortals on this Earth, need to end the fight as quickly as possible, and that means not holding back until your opponent is no longer a threat.

I also take issue with the second sentence (not chronological I know, but this is less important). I wish people would stop saying things like "not to severely injure or kill someone", because people got severely injured and almost killed in fights at my school, and my school wasn't even particularly rough. Granted, this wasn't exactly all the time, but the danger was still there. On my first day at secondary school, a kid in the 10th year came in and took a baseball bat to someone's head. My mate Colin got jumped by a load of kids once because he was winning a fight that the other guy started, and he was hospitalised. Don't downplay school fights, they can be vicious.

[Gray]

Don't downplay school fights, they can be vicious.
When I was in primary (elementary) school, a friend of mine engaged in a verbal fight and turned his back... The other guy pushed him face-first into the corner of two brick walls, splitting his face open. He was hospitalised (duh). Pretty crazy **** for a 12 year old kid to do, eh?

[Yama Tombo]

It's the last sentence in this paragraph that highlights what I mean. Unless you are incredibly superior to your opponent and you can block EVERY SINGLE ATTACK, sooner or later they will penetrate your defence.

You're thinking I'm saying one can block every single attack. I said,"do what you can..."

And you will get hurt. Since we're not automatically superior fighters simply because we're martial artists, it would be unrealistic to assume we can just block everything and avoid getting hurt ourselves. We're just not that good. We, like all the other mortals on this Earth, need to end the fight as quickly as possible, and that means not holding back until your opponent is no longer a threat.

I know what your position is. From my expierences in and out school going on the defense, usually avoided escalating the fight. Yes, I did get a bloody nose, lip, bruised eye, and cuts above my eyes. Never did the fights go passed, but a few punches. Though, I never had a fight with the same person twice. Yeah, I got lucky with a hand full of fights.

I also take issue with the second sentence (not chronological I know, but this is less important). I wish people would stop saying things like "not to severely injure or kill someone", because people got severely injured and almost killed in fights at my school, and my school wasn't even particularly rough. Granted, this wasn't exactly all the time, but the danger was still there. On my first day at secondary school, a kid in the 10th year came in and took a baseball bat to someone's head. My mate Colin got jumped by a load of kids once because he was winning a fight that the other guy started, and he was hospitalised. Don't downplay school fights, they can be vicious.

I just wish you didn't talk my words out of context. I did say MOST fights in schools are not to severely injury or kill someone.

[Timmy Boy]

You're thinking I'm saying one can block every single attack. I said,"do what you can..."

So if you know you can't block every single attack, you must surely know that your strategy is doomed.

I just wish you didn't talk my words out of context. I did say MOST fights in schools are not to severely injury or kill someone.

I'm not taking your words out of context. I know that most school fights don't end up that extreme, but enough do to warrant it being a concern for self defence, and to warrant a more effective strategy than "stand there blocking until you get completely worked".

[Yama Tombo]

So if you know you can't block every single attack, you must surely know that your strategy is doomed.

Like I said:
I know what your position is. From my expierences in and out school going on the defense, usually avoided escalating the fight. Yes, I did get a bloody nose, lip, bruised eye, and cuts above my eyes. Never did the fights go passed, but a few punches. Though, I never had a fight with the same person twice. Yeah, I got lucky with a hand full of fights.



I'm not taking your words out of context. I know that most school fights don't end up that extreme, but enough do to warrant it being a concern for self defence, and to warrant a more effective strategy than "stand there blocking until you get completely worked".

Agreed.

[GojuKJoe]

I know what your position is. From my expierences in and out school going on the defense, usually avoided escalating the fight. Yes, I did get a bloody nose, lip, bruised eye, and cuts above my eyes. Never did the fights go passed, but a few punches. Though, I never had a fight with the same person twice. Yeah, I got lucky with a hand full of fights.

Why take that bloody lip, nose etc. if you don't have to?

[flyingknee]

leg kicks man. you can sweep someones legs out hard enough to make their head slam on the ground,plus they are quick enough to avoid detection. work the thai leg kick.

[Yama Tombo]

Why take that bloody lip, nose etc. if you don't have to?

I'm crazy like that. :yeleyes:

[Timmy Boy]

I'm crazy like that. :yeleyes:


So you're advocating this strategy even though you know it's stupid and will get you hurt?

[Yama Tombo]

Tim: There's always a time and place for everything.

[Timmy Boy]

Tim: There's always a time and place for everything.

There's no time or place for just standing there and blocking all day.

[GojuKJoe]

If a kid starts on you in school, and is actually throwing punches at you, I think the best thing to do is give him a good hard punch in the nose. It may even end the fight because the kid is so surprised you can hit so well, and may not want to continue to tangle with you.

[kayperTSD]

Many of you on this thread know a *lot* more about self defense and MA than I. I'll give you my two cents mostly as a parent.

I started my 9-year-old on Martial arts when he was about 7-1/2 because a bigger kid 10 or 11 years) put him into a choke hold at school. Yes, in an elementary school.

My son (and daughter and me) are in MA so that on the off chance we need to defend ourselves at some point, we can defend and escape. I hope none of us ever have to find out if we can really do it!

In the meantime, we attend regular and sparring classes and gain some confidence from our practice defense.

With all that said, I would back up my son or daughter thoughout all levels of the school administration if one of them got in trouble for defending themselves, or even defending their friends.

If my child is in the right, and is on the defensive, even if they hurt somebody to get away, they would not be punished at home nor at school if I could help it.

If they got suspended, I'd probably make sure they had a fantastic time while they were off!!

The world is a tough place, and unfortunately schools have some idiots in them making it tough for the good kids.

Kay

[AciDRaiN]

Many of you on this thread know a *lot* more about self defense and MA than I. I'll give you my two cents mostly as a parent.

I started my 9-year-old on Martial arts when he was about 7-1/2 because a bigger kid 10 or 11 years) put him into a choke hold at school. Yes, in an elementary school.

My son (and daughter and me) are in MA so that on the off chance we need to defend ourselves at some point, we can defend and escape. I hope none of us ever have to find out if we can really do it!

In the meantime, we attend regular and sparring classes and gain some confidence from our practice defense.

With all that said, I would back up my son or daughter thoughout all levels of the school administration if one of them got in trouble for defending themselves, or even defending their friends.

If my child is in the right, and is on the defensive, even if they hurt somebody to get away, they would not be punished at home nor at school if I could help it.

If they got suspended, I'd probably make sure they had a fantastic time while they were off!!

The world is a tough place, and unfortunately schools have some idiots in them making it tough for the good kids.

Kay

Good for you. That's the way to do it in my opinion.

AciDRaiN

[Torell]

Many of you on this thread know a *lot* more about self defense and MA than I. I'll give you my two cents mostly as a parent.

I started my 9-year-old on Martial arts when he was about 7-1/2 because a bigger kid 10 or 11 years) put him into a choke hold at school. Yes, in an elementary school.

My son (and daughter and me) are in MA so that on the off chance we need to defend ourselves at some point, we can defend and escape. I hope none of us ever have to find out if we can really do it!

In the meantime, we attend regular and sparring classes and gain some confidence from our practice defense.

With all that said, I would back up my son or daughter thoughout all levels of the school administration if one of them got in trouble for defending themselves, or even defending their friends.

If my child is in the right, and is on the defensive, even if they hurt somebody to get away, they would not be punished at home nor at school if I could help it.

If they got suspended, I'd probably make sure they had a fantastic time while they were off!!

The world is a tough place, and unfortunately schools have some idiots in them making it tough for the good kids.

Kay

remember tho, a parent in my experiance would almost always give their kid the benifit of the doubt.
if neither of 2 kids in a fight knew self defence, wouldnt that make it safer for the both? its only once their in their later teens which its needed?

eg; i got picked on by a boxer in primary school.. his dad sent him to learn for self defence.
eg 2; in high-school, i have been surrounded by groups of people, 100% serious and in danger of geting hurt.

in primary school its geting punched in the stomach or punching opponent in the stomach (if you learn self defence), while in high school its either be put in hospital for serious injuries or hopefully defend yourself if you know how.

i dont think self defence is needed in primary school as it can cause little problems between youngsters, but most definately useful later on.

-Torell-

[AciDRaiN]

remember tho, a parent in my experiance would almost always give their kid the benifit of the doubt.
if neither of 2 kids in a fight knew self defence, wouldnt that make it safer for the both? its only once their in their later teens which its needed?

eg; i got picked on by a boxer in primary school.. his dad sent him to learn for self defence.
eg 2; in high-school, i have been surrounded by groups of people, 100% serious and in danger of geting hurt.

in primary school its geting punched in the stomach or punching opponent in the stomach (if you learn self defence), while in high school its either be put in hospital for serious injuries or hopefully defend yourself if you know how.

i dont think self defence is needed in primary school as it can cause little problems between youngsters, but most definately useful later on.

-Torell-

I don't know, by the age of 10 I already had gotten knives pulled on me in fights at school. Not OFTEN true, but often enough. If I hadn't been training since I was 4 might have turned out differently.

AciDRaiN