Sparring [Archive] - Martial Arts Planet

KickChick

30-Jul-2003, 02:39 PM

I'm older than you Birdman and I don't agree with that!

But aside from that.... as I cannot determine what it is you are doing wrong , I could only do that if I were to spar you .... then all I can offer you is some suggestions like,

Keep your hands up (guard your face man!!) .... stagger that fighting stance a bit more so that you don't leave your middle and front too open.
MOVE (hard to hit a moving target!!) and side step to avoid those head shots, .... where are your high block techniques???

craigwarren

30-Jul-2003, 02:48 PM

I've been sparing for about a year now. Only last week a 14 year old in my class burst my nose. I still get beat by people who have been training longer than me, but i find that i am getting better, my guard is better but still nowhere near perfect and i am trying to spot targets in my oponent, as well as keeping an eye on their ranges.

All i can say, is that everyone will get better (i hope) and that the only way to learn is to make mistakes.

Its definetly not your age anyway.

Birdman

30-Jul-2003, 02:48 PM

Thanks for the tips, when you say stager the fighting stance more what do you mean? Like spreading my legs apart futher?

I diden't even see this kick coming but I must have dropped my hands, I was dizzy after he hit my head so I just sat down, diden't get a chance to ask him what kick he used.

Adam

30-Jul-2003, 02:51 PM

I will also tell you that you're DEFINITELY not too old to do martial arts. Some time ago I got my ass handed to me bigtime by a 52-year old guy, and that was in full contact. Keep on training if you enjoy it. :D

Birdman

30-Jul-2003, 02:59 PM

Thanks for the Encouragement everyone I will continue as my whole family is in Taekwondo. Just get a little discouraged when I get kicked in the head.

BTW, should I wear a mouth guard like boxers do when sparring?

pgm316

30-Jul-2003, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by Birdman
Thanks for the tips, when you say stager the fighting stance more what do you mean? Like spreading my legs apart futher?

I diden't even see this kick coming but I must have dropped my hands, I was dizzy after he hit my head so I just sat down, diden't get a chance to ask him what kick he used.

You need to be more aware of your oppononent, when looking at them don't concentrate on any one part of the body. Remember its a long way for the feet to travel from the floor to your head. Use range to keep safe, moving in and out to strike, and keep your guard up!

Spar more lightly to get practice and confidence, theres no use in sparring at a level you can't do.

Good luck :)

KickChick

30-Jul-2003, 03:07 PM

Considering you are at the beginning of advancement , yes, I would most certainly wear a mouth piece. We are all required at our school to wear one.

By staggering I mean ... stagger your stance as you would when you perform a step-behind side kick (ex. facing to left with feet apart, right foot more forward and left in back as if straddling the back corner of the room to you left.) Now of course, you don't retain this stance all the time you spar .... but its good to try several different stances. I personally find this stance far more difficult for opponents to get a kick to my head and middle.

xplasma

30-Jul-2003, 03:10 PM

What type of kick was it?
This is what I do.

Front or Side Kick: I tai sabaki (or side step) to the outide of the kick and at the same time strike the outside the knee with your fist. Make sure you keep you hand up incase the kick turns into a hook kick.

Roundhouse: Thats easy, when you see it come up simply step into them to the inside of the leg very close to there body. You can strike them as you are doing it.

Personally I hate being kicked at. So when I spar I immediate step in as close as possible and use fist, elbows, and knees.

MATT_LIQUID

30-Jul-2003, 03:19 PM

I find jabs, strong guard and most importantly confidence are the key. I'd also ask them to lighten up a bit. Tai chi is good for relaxation though :)

craigwarren

30-Jul-2003, 03:20 PM

You might wanna ask your partner who burst your lip to practise some more control, especially when targeting the head for a kick.

Self control is a tenant after all.

:)

johndoch

30-Jul-2003, 03:35 PM

Hey there Birdman

Listen to these guys, there's no way you're too old for TKD (after all its one of the softer arts :-D joke) *Doc waits to get kicked in the n**s*.

Seriously though watch the shoulders they usually give a kickers intentions away. If you were countered try being patient and draw your opponent get you own counter in.

stump

30-Jul-2003, 04:08 PM

<<<should I wear a mouth guard like boxers do when sparring?>>>

Is the pope a catholic? Does a one legged duck swim in circles???

YES definitely!!! imo you should never spar without one....ever.

Try adopting a boxers guard. use your hands to cover the side of your head an your elbows/forearms to cover your ribs. Bring them together to cover your front. Also a good way is to use your shoulders to guard your jawline. Lift them and they'll reduce the size of the target - your head!!!!!

Some people duck everything in response to an attack...even when ducking is not appropriate, thats possibly how you end up being kicked in the head

<<<You might wanna ask your partner who burst your lip to practise some more control, especially when targeting the head for a kick.>>>

Have to disagree with this. It's up to you to guarentee your own safely. Keep this in mind and your guard should improve because if it doesn't you get hit!!! What Bruce Lee called emotional content :)

You're never too old so happy hunting!

Tosh

30-Jul-2003, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by johndoch

Listen to these guys, there's no way you're too old for TKD (after all its one of the softer arts :-D joke) *Doc waits to get kicked in the n**s*.

<Gives johndoc an overly elaborate spinning kick in the nuts :D>

Whack!

My advice would be to ask your partner (ohhh so close Craig!) why he found it easy to kick you in the head.

Or alternatively how he would defend against it. Most people who can score with a technique can also defend against it!!

Good Luck!!!

johndoch

30-Jul-2003, 04:28 PM

ouch:(

I had a feeling it would be Tosh who got in there

Tosh

30-Jul-2003, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by johndoch
ouch:(

I had a feeling it would be Tosh who got in there

It's always nice to be wanted! :D

I'm a giver, never a reciever!!! :D :D

Thomas

30-Jul-2003, 04:48 PM

You're definately not too old to learn. Also, don't get wrapped up on being annoyed that you were hit by a "junior" ranked person. No matter what color belt you have on, you will get tagged by people with a "higher color or a lower color" on... it's the nature of the game. A few suggestions:

(1) Check where you are watching your opponent. Some people recommend watching their eyes... I personally don't like this because sometimes I miss a fast kick floating in. Others (myself included) recommend watching somewhere around the midsection so that you can use peripheral vision to see movement by hands or legs. Did the kick get through because you didn't see it in time?

(2) Watch your hands... sometimes we fall into a habit of dropping our hands when we throw a kick (especially when first learning how to add torque and speed to a kick). If head kicks are getting through, try to keep your hands a bit higher and your head a bit lower behind them... (but don't jut your head forward!).

(3) Check your footwork... are you moving straight forward and back all the time? Do you have a rhythm that's easy to pick up on? Maybe your opponent is picking that rhythm up and popping you at the weak points. Try working in some circling movements, side steps, and sliding techniques.

(4) Make sure your opponent isn't catching you each time with the same feint. Ask your "buddy" what s/he hit you with and how... learn from them so they can't catch you again.

(5) Practice some counter kicks with a partner... e.g. practice the back kick counter off the roundhouse kick, work a short choppy side kick as a pre-emptive strike, etc. Practice some good hand strikes that you can use... if your opponent is kicking, you can step in, jam their attack and hit them with hand techniques. Practice some of these with a partner.

Good luck and happy training!

KickChick

30-Jul-2003, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by tosh_spice
I'm a giver, never a reciever!!! :D :D

... will have to keep that in mind :D !

But a good point there tosh ... work with your partner (basically what I mean't in my post when I said it would be better for me to spar you to find out what it is you need to work on).

I am also surprised that you guys are drawing blood... aren't you advised to show a certain amount of control whilst sparring??

We on occassion spar without gear with contact and without... let me tell you without contact is far more difficult!

Helm

30-Jul-2003, 04:56 PM

Getting hit in the head is all part of the learning experience man.

I can offer you some advice based on how i get headshots.

Move randomly. This includes taking at least 1 step to the side every while. I can see people building up for an attack, it takes them about 5 secs to get ready and i can see it.
I take a step sideways and its throws them off and they start all over.

Habit. Easily the most common way i get headshots is by taking advantage of habits people have. For instance coming in with an attack, missing and pausing for a second.
They then take this queue that "its their turn to attack" and drop their hands/head and take a step forwards. So many people get caught out this way.

At my last competition i faught against someone who loved using a step-in reverse turning kick, he was good at it too.
But i got to learn his habits and as soon as i saw his back hand come up a bit and him step in i immediately rushed in and punched the crap out of any body protector i could see and threw a double-roundhouse when he backed off.
Every single time he did this and i rushed in it suprised him as his thigh hit my body, and he wasnt used to it. From there i was able to throw anything i wanted. Including a shot to the face that neither scorer saw.

Time. Practise. Patience.

Birdman

30-Jul-2003, 05:46 PM

Several of you say I should be using a mouth guard and I went to the store to buy one and they have a two piece and a one piece guard.

The two piece seems to be the one to use since it covers both your top and bottom teeth.

Am I correct?

Birdman

30-Jul-2003, 05:48 PM

Thanks to everyone for the fighting tips. I will try to use these tips in my next sparring match tomorrow.

This is a great Forum!

Jazman

30-Jul-2003, 09:57 PM

yes, that's what the two peice is for. I wouldn't suggest it as it probably gets really annoying after awhile and just plain more expensive. Just look for a nice cheap one piece one. Won't run you more than a buck hopefully and as long as you form it correctly it should be comfortable. Seriously though, unless you and your partner want to hurt each other I would suggest toning down the contact. That way a kick to the head will only be embarrassing and not painful. Make sure to always keep your back hand up near your face and your front hand in front of your body or face(your choice). play around with stances and find which one is more comfortable for you to snap off some quick kicks and also which is easiest to dodge kicks while in... have fun and kick butt!

TheBorderer

30-Jul-2003, 10:35 PM

Hi Birdman, welcome to MAP, as others have said, keep at the sparring:

Originally posted by Helm
Time. Practise. Patience.

sums it up very well. To again quote along similar lines as craigwarren (as Im the same grade as him and at the same school :)), its a case of perseverance {thinks "hmm TKD Tenet Deja vu here..."},with practice every one can get better, just sometimes yeah there are times when it is the 'hard' way that you learn things! (I've been hit in the nose once or twice, but luckily it wasn't that hard! :eek: ) As again keep your gaurd up, move, use moves that you know you feel work for you (but of course experiment sometimes :p) etc, there's various ways of doing things and here of course you get all opinions! By the way what style of TKD do you do? I'd be very surprised if an ITF class allowed so much contact!!! As Jazman said, definately "toning down the contact" is a good idea, some folk at sparring are, as my instructor(tosh) would say, "animals"! As far as the gum shields go, I only have a 'one piece' gumshield and it feels fine to me, but of course its up to you. Last thing what other gear do you use during sparring (hands, feet, etc) if you use any(?), just curious, as I don't know your school or that so, this I'm just 'throwing more ideas' into the MAP TKD melting pot(some ideas I think I may think on myself cheers guys :D)...

Best of luck with the sparring tomorrow man, go at it :woo: (well maybe not too much! ;)) and indeed as Jazman says "kick butt" ! :D

shadow joe

30-Jul-2003, 11:24 PM

definitely where a mouthpiece anytime a high-moderate level of contact is involved. Feet can definitely remove teeth.

listen to everyone's comments.. they're pretty good... i particularly like the idea of keeping one's hands up. :D

peace

Tosh

31-Jul-2003, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by Jazman
Just look for a nice cheap one piece one. Won't run you more than a buck hopefully and as long as you form it correctly it should be comfortable.

In the style of the "Scrubs" Opera man....

MIIISSSSSTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKEEEEE!!!! :eek:

Never ever ( and I mean never) just plump for the "cheap" option when investing in safety equipment!!

At best you might lose a tooth.........at worst??

You be dead!

If you are serious looking into protection follow these simple rules:

1) Make a Doctors appointment.
2) Tell him why you need one and what types of impact you need a mouth guard for.
3) Ask him how much it'll cost £30/$50 approx
4) Get one custom made by a professional!!

No two mouthguards are the same. Different people require different protection. Don't put your safety.........,even life, in the hands of the cheapy option!!

Okay it might be more pricey than the $1 option but at least you know you've got some proper protection!!!

The choice is yours!!

Tosh

31-Jul-2003, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by TheBorderer
As Jazman said, definately "toning down the contact" is a good idea, some folk at sparring are, as my instructor(tosh) would say, "animals"!

Although there's a difference between a hard contact fight with good techniques and the "Animal" technique of which I object!!

:D

Rarely do you get 2 equals hitting hard contact though..... if hard contact happens it's usually due to an imbalance in ability!!

Tosh

31-Jul-2003, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by KickChick
... will have to keep that in mind :D !

;)

Except on Birthday!

Much recieving please!

:Angel:

stump

31-Jul-2003, 10:30 AM

The mouth guard doesn't really protect your teeth, it protects your tongue and you biting it when hit. Haven't used a two piece guard so I can't comment on them

My Advice: use the one thats most comfortable

Helm

31-Jul-2003, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by tosh_spice
In the style of the "Scrubs" Opera man....

MIIISSSSSTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKEEEEE!!!! :eek:

Wow! Someone else that watches Scrubs?!?!

I watched season 1&2 and got totally hooked, im downloaded both seasons from the interweby now :D

I cant stop singing "Uuuunderdog" by Teds Barbershop band :D

I got the Scrubs Album too, some of the music on that show fits in so damn well, one of the best parts of it IMO.

Anyway, what were we talking about? Oh, the best kind of gun sheild you can get is one made by a dentist, will cost around £50 at least, but you get something made perfectly for your gums and teeth. I had one made for me when i was about 10 for rugby, its a boring process to have one made, but really offers the best kind of protection.

Jazman

01-Aug-2003, 02:06 AM

"The mouth guard doesn't really protect your teeth, it protects your tongue and you biting it when hit. Haven't used a two piece guard so I can't comment on them"

Actually, it does more than that, it also can help prevent from concussions, guess it has something to do with your jaw rattling around or whatever.

"If you are serious looking into protection follow these simple rules:

1) Make a Doctors appointment.
2) Tell him why you need one and what types of impact you need a mouth guard for.
3) Ask him how much it'll cost £30/$50 approx
4) Get one custom made by a professional!!"

50$ for a mouthpiece! whoa! the cheap ones usually have good protection in my opinion. I've never had any problems with teeth or tongue biting or whatever using cheapos and I've taken some serious shots to the head (had a 300 pound person slam into my head...) about the custom made mouthpieces I just form mine, fits almost perfectly to your teeth and won't ever fall out. Of course most people are probably at least 50$ richer than me so I guess you could spend your money on that. (Just care to mention that every piece of sparring gear I own only cost me 20$ :D)

Tosh

01-Aug-2003, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by Jazman
Just care to mention that every piece of sparring gear I own only cost me 20$ :D)

Cool! Save now die later

Which do you prefer?

The cheaper or the safer!

Clunk click Kids!

Artikon

01-Aug-2003, 05:46 PM

I prefer safer, plus with the added cost it usually has a longer shelf life. My adidas gear has lasted through some very hard training and competing the last 5 years . . . . course I lucked out and got all the pieces, shin, forearm, chest, and helmet . . . for under 20 USD a piece

Cain

01-Aug-2003, 06:38 PM

Sorry - Just noticed this -

50 dollars for a mouthpeice!!??

50 x 49 = 2450 rs in Indian currency :eek::eek::eek::eek:

Thats's wee bit too much for a mouthpeice :eek:

Things I could get with that kinda money -

A geforce 2

or

a whole weight set

or

mp3 player

or

a really expensive book :D

Heh :D

|Cain|

Jazman

02-Aug-2003, 07:39 AM

yeah, with $50 I could get that new video game I always wanted! It still seems REALLY extreme, I could see 5 or 10 dollars, I might pay that for a custom one, but not 50...

"course I lucked out and got all the pieces, shin, forearm, chest, and helmet . . . for under 20 USD a piece"
I hope shin and forearm were both a lot under 20$, you can get shin and forearm pads brand new in my neighborhood for about $7.(not for MA's but nearly the same design.) A new helmet for under $20 is rare though, do you order online?

"Cool! Save now die later

Which do you prefer?

The cheaper or the safer!

Clunk click Kids!"

actually, I plan on dying someday.. :D
personally I prefer the cheaper because I'm not really the richest person... Of course I also don't spar full contact, all of my gear does protect me well though so I can't complain. When I start heavier sparring I might invest in some better stuff...

Artikon

02-Aug-2003, 08:16 AM

I prefer safer, and I do know what you do mean. I'm not the richest person in the world but I happened to be around a supplier at a world championship who couldn't take their supplies back with them at the end so basically sold everything for 80% off.

And the safer the better especially when you do get into the heavier sparring :cool:

Cain

02-Aug-2003, 10:57 AM

Yeah safer the better, 2 dollars is fine 10 dollars is safer - but 50 bucks? For a mouthpeice? Honestly that's considered waaaay luxury!!!

|Cain|

Helm

02-Aug-2003, 12:36 PM

Eh? That makes no sense really. I spent around $100 on skating knee-pads because they were the best and i couldnt put a price on my kneecaps.

If you cant afford it- fine. But some people value such luxuries as a full set of teeth :D

Tosh

03-Aug-2003, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by Helm
Eh? That makes no sense really. I spent around $100 on skating knee-pads because they were the best and i couldnt put a price on my kneecaps.

If you cant afford it- fine. But some people value such luxuries as a full set of teeth :D

My god I agree with a WTF person :P! You ever find a new club?

Artikon

03-Aug-2003, 06:27 PM

Tosh you agree with a wtf person?! My lord, I want you to go home, get some bedrest, take some asparin . . . or a pint of ale whichever you prefer . . . . and practise your tuls in the morning ;)

Tosh

03-Aug-2003, 06:34 PM

Heh,

Guess us TKD boys stick together when it comes to knowing what kick in the face feels like :D

Justin

03-Aug-2003, 08:31 PM

"Yeah safer the better, 2 dollars is fine 10 dollars is safer - but 50 bucks? For a mouthpeice? Honestly that's considered waaaay luxury!!!"

i agree

Tosh

03-Aug-2003, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by cain_charlie
Yeah safer the better, 2 dollars is fine 10 dollars is safer - but 50 bucks? For a mouthpeice? Honestly that's considered waaaay luxury!!!

|Cain|

Remember we're talking about an adult so he's not going to need to change until it is damaged.

So factor in 1 "safer" mouthguard over 5 years sparring against a cheap one (which should be really replaced after about 6 months.

It works out a lot better. Trust me once you get to international competition, or you spar a lot more it makes more sense to be safer now than brushing your teeth outside your mouth later.

Wait until your earning some money boys, £30 for safety isn't that much. How much do you pay for car insurance a year??

Helm

03-Aug-2003, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by tosh_spice
My god I agree with a WTF person :P! You ever find a new club?

Dont worry, im sure it will wear off:D

Actually, my old teacher phoned me and said he was starting up a new club in my home town (yay, no 14 mile drive), and he wanted me to help teach and find somewhere to train in :D :D :D
Im pretty much happy as hell now, cant wait to start training again :D

KickChick

04-Aug-2003, 02:35 AM

Originally posted by tosh_spice
Heh,

Guess us TKD boys stick together when it comes to knowing what kick in the face feels like :D

... hey you guys want to make room for a TKD gal ?? I also know what it feels like!!:)

Cannot put a cost on a pretty smile :D

KenpoDavid

04-Aug-2003, 03:38 AM

We were sparrnig yesterday in my Kenpo class. I got kicked hard in the calf and it still hurts but otehr than that I did very well. Took a couple body shots but blocked evreything that came at my head. It was great! my best day yet!

Last month the Founder of our school happened to be in the dojo while I was sparring with a 3rd Dan (I am 6th kyu so this guy is like 9 belts above me! he was teaching me not fighting me haha). He gave me some great advice and yesterday I tried to put it into action - retreat = advance, block and trap, conserve energy.

I felt a differnet level of perception than ever before. Before, it was almost liek I entered a cloudy room and fought half-blind. This time, I stayed square to my opponent, tried to synchronize with his(or her) timing, anticipating his (and her) tactics. "It hits all by itself" I think I realy felt that. the one time I got kicked square, I was thinking about the fight, not fighting.

Although I felt completely calm the entire time, I was called "an animal" by the most aggressive guy in the class but really it felt the opposite. I waited for my opening, patiently blocking and avoiding and timing, then EXPLOSIVE, trying to double the tempo suddenly! It works :). Maybe he just felt that way becasue of how I punched him square across the eyebrow and he couldn't lay a glove on me... that goofbal actually tried to land a jump side kick form 8 feet away. I just stepped aside and watched him float by... should have tagged him while he was up there...

thanks for listening :)

david