Are Weapons worth it?

[Master J]

Do you tink training in weapons is good?
I can see the application for staffs, and knifes (sweeping brushes, kitchen knifes), but why bother training with all those mad weapons like hook swords, spears etc.
they won't help you in a defensive situation on the street.

Then again, i suppose just for the fun of it.

[BlackBeltCookie]

I've never trained with any kind of weapons in the dojang, but have self taught myself to use nunchukkas and the balisong butterfly knife. Never with the intention of using either ina combat situation.

My views on training with weapons is that it's a part of tradition that goes back generations, when that was all they had (apart from their hands & feet)

I love to watch Shaolin skillfully weilding all sorts of weapons. It's a true art!!

[Master J]

Yea, me too. Those guys are masters!

[Fergie Boy]

does knowledge of the Arcemedes screw become useless just because we now have pumps?

[wayofthedragon]

Originally posted by BlackBeltCookie
My views on training with weapons is that it's a part of tradition that goes back generations, when that was all they had (apart from their hands & feet)

I totally agree....No it wouldn't be useful in todays martial arts. People carry around guns now....not spears, hook swords, monk spades or other exotic weapons. But back then, it was the best thing....It was their modern MA

[wayofthedragon]

Originally posted by Fergie Boy
does knowledge of the Arcemedes screw become useless just because we now have pumps?


:confused:whats a Arcemedes screw:confused:
Now I know what an air pump is:rolleyes:
Hmmm....I guess it doesn't become useless, but rather people adapt to whats new more and more rapid, and what's old becomes more less heard of

[Cudgel]

well you be surprised how many nuts actually carry swords and such . SO know how to defend against these maybe usefull.
Becasue even a really cr@ppy sword in the hands of an unskilled user can cause lots of damage to human flech.

[KenpoDavid]

so could you say, to continue the tradition of training in the weapons of the day, today's martial artists should learn pistol and rifle shooting? Martial artists from the days of the sword and spear didn't study how to use rocks and jawbones hahaha...

DavidC

[Fergie Boy]

Well I would say yeah they did and should we not be learning tank manouvers stealth fighter piloting a tactical nuclear weapon strikes.

[Kat]

How about the study of principles,tactics and strategies of weapons(tools) which you can then apply to most situations.

[Topher]

I think people should train with modern weapons that can be used of self defense. Like stuff you carry around with you, say an umbrella, or a jacket. If someone attacks you with a knife..etc your jacket could be used in your defence.

[I think i've been watching too many JC movies]

[Cal_JJ]

Just because you prefer sword training doesn't mean you need a sword to apply your training.. any staff will do
Just because you prefer knife training doesn't mean you need a knife to apply your training.. any pen, fork, nail, keys....will do
etc., etc.,

Kokua
DavidM

[Cudgel]

well there is difference between a stick and sword. THey behave differently when striking something.

and to KempoDavid Fergie boy and Kat a big theumbs up. Heres to the Arts of War.
Learning what a Soldier would have back then ie strategy and tactis and the opperation of seige equipment.
But the old ways seem so cool.

[wutan]

Another aspect to weapon training is learning to use total body force and not just the arm.
Also the use of a heavy broadsword is excellent for strength training.
The weapon should be seen as an extension of the body and it is key not to let it run away with you i.e. control you.
Both the spear and broadsword forms in tai chi are classed as 'Tiger Forms' and there is a reasonable amount of controlled force used in the form which can be practised as a hand form without the weapon.If you were to stike someone using the same technique without the weapon you can create a considerable amount of force in the application, and the chances are that this would be the case if you ever had to use it, as it is not easy to carry a broadsword along the street without being noticed and probably arrested!

[Cudgel]

yeah using weapon requires your hips legs and shoulders to move in synch with your arm.

[Cal_JJ]

"Well there is a diff a stick & a sword. They behave diff when striking something."

Well..... I will give you that.lol
My point wasn't that they are the same. Just that sword training isn't worthless because you can't carry a sword around. wutan says it better than I did though.


DavidM

[kurapica]

i would say that its usefull to train in wepons readaly available. like stick,knife,cane,umbrealla for street puposes but other wepons also help in developing the practisoners creativity. and they look really cool

[Candito]

Watch the movie " Ghost Dog "

There you will see forrest whittaker carry on like a ninja with 2 desert eagles.. and he is serious.

[KenpoDavid]

I loved that movie!

Especially the Italian mobster who was into Public Enemy' and hip-hop LOL

[Cudgel]

well sword traing is more applicable to stick fighting than the other way around. So it has a purpose.

[kempocos]

ESCRIMA/KALI/ARNIS these arts are stick and Knife as well as small sword based. Escrima sticks a comman in many dojos. I find that they are realistic in the case most rage attacks are with bats, boards , pipes and a 26-30 escrima is used much the same way, so disarms are useful. Also when useing two sticks the hands movements are much like parry & strike or brush & grab. The result is better empty hand work.

[Falren]

Originally posted by Candito
Watch the movie " Ghost Dog "

There you will see forrest whittaker carry on like a ninja with 2 desert eagles.. and he is serious.


As a quick note - in Ghost Dog he was following the Bushido code and acting like a samurai - not a ninja. The two are slightly different ;).

-falren.

[tai-gip]

I was told (hmmm do i beleive) that weapons are just an extension and that you use the same moves essentialy as you would for your hands ....in my personal weapons training experiance they toughen you up ( you know you learn to understand pain every time you nunchuck yourself in the head or groin or chainwhip yourself around the neck or have a throwing knife bounce of the target and enter your leg eg) but they are supposed to increase your coordination and in help keep you fit and interested

[aikiMac]

Weapon training is where the empty-hand movements come from, if not for all martial arts at least for some of them. Escrima is an obvious example. The patterns for sticks is virtually identical to the patterns for machettes and knives which is virtually identical to the patterns for their "boxing" and joint locks and takedowns -- and back to sticks. The three (sticks, blades, hands) are the same.

In silat this trinity is made even more explicit. Whereas escrima is based upon knife fighting, silat *is* knife fighting.

Aiki-jujitsu and aikido derive from Japanese swordfighting. The footwork is sword footwork, and the "throws" and "locks" are really sword cuts.

We could add to the list with examples from other martial arts. Perhaps there are some martial arts that have no basis in weapon work. Western boxing and BJJ come to my mind. That's fine. But plainly for some martial arts, the heart and soul is weapons.

[tai-gip]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by aikiMac
[B]Weapon training is where the empty-hand movements come from, if not for all martial arts at least for some of them.

Ohh i thought it started with hands because that was what people had sorry my mistake..
U know cause every one always has a weapon on them so of course weapon work would be primary hell im sitting here with my samuri sword right now using it to type

[aikiMac]

Hey bunny boy, did you read the argument section? Conclusion follows from that.

[grandmaster mat]

i practice with nunchakus. its fun but can be painfull.

[chaozkingz]

about practising with umbrellas and such, it is interesting, and if you have a good background in traditional weapons, why not apply that knowledge to your surrounding day to day items? .

look at the kama for example. anyone noticed how similar it is with that wheel nut opener-thing in the car?

besides, knowing how to use a weapon means u will know a great deal on how to defend against it anyway, so yes, it is definately worth training for.

plus it does look cool lol

[tai-gip]

Yeh at one point when i was creating my own style i was trying to develope around things people did all the time you know....
reaching for door handle middle block,lifting boot upper block but in the end all i did was make myself laugh still i think it would work easier for most people to just show a different use for a move they already know

[tai-gip]

ps sorry for the sarcasm aikimac

[aikiMac]

> sorry for the sarcasm aikimac
>
We're cool.

[Elitex]

A bo is a good weapon to use in a self defence situation. If you are in a fight, something nearby will always be able to be used as a bo. A shotgun might also be useful

[chaozkingz]

a shotgun is definately useful. providing you don't go deaf from the bang......

the bo is wonderful and i love it, but if you are in a small space, it may prove to be more of a burden than a weapon.

not everything can be used as the bo. things like your belt or your pen may be different. and those two are arguably the most readily available weapon that you carry each day.

[Hakko-Ryu]

sometimes weapons training will go hand in hand with the style you are learning. What would ninjutsu be without it's weapons?!?! and jujitsu has a lot of empty hand version of the sword.