attacking with surprise

[david28]

Im 14 and at school its pretty rough. You get idiots trying to fight you left right and centre. My question is if someones in your face bullying or smart talking you is it a good idead to just give them the old 1-2 even if their hands aren't up. If i do this when he isn't expecting it will i get called a coward. Is it a good idea to do this?

[Sever]

If you honestly feel your safety is being threatened (by that I don't mean some kid calling you gay in the playground or whatever) then stuff what people call you; drop them before they drop you. If they're just running their mouth at you, don't bother

[Ikken Hisatsu]

heres what I did-
make friends with the two biggest guys in your year level

dont be a dickwad to people

train muay thai with the captain of the rugby team

following these 3 simple rules and you will also cruise through high school :D

[Matt_Bernius]

Im 14 and at school its pretty rough. You get idiots trying to fight you left right and centre. My question is if someones in your face bullying or smart talking you is it a good idead to just give them the old 1-2 even if their hands aren't up. If i do this when he isn't expecting it will i get called a coward. Is it a good idea to do this?Plezsae read what follow carefully...

In a true self defense situation, sucker punching a person is the bet thing that you can do. Flat out, nine times out of ten it will save your skin.

Ok... NOW HERE IS THE IMPORTANT PART, a true self defense situation is one where you life is truely threatened. Hopefully that will never happen to you. And chances are it won't happen at school. So no, sucker punching some kid at school is a great path to getting one suspended or worse.

The school has offices and structures to help mediate these types of things. USE THEM FIRST! Let me repeat that for clarity: USE THEM FIRST! Any form of physical conflict should always be a last ditch effort. Back to the wall, no other option. If he's hitting you, then fight back. But until that line is crossed, no you shouldn't punch first.

So it is your responsibility (especially if you have martial arts training) to talk to a teacher/monitor/principle/lunch-lady... an adult school staffer first! Or follow ikken's advice.

- Matt

[cavallin]

and if you train in MA, dont tell anyone!! espacially not if you have only been doing it a few months.

[Sh4d0wS0ul]

Telling lots of people you do MA is bad bad bad for business.

Now i'm assuming you live in America because most people on MAP are, or atleast not from the UK. I don't think that most other countries suffer the problem of "chavs" that the entire of England and best parts of Scotland and Wales do. Basically, what i'm trying to say is if the dude who is trying to pick a fight with you is part of some kind of network or has 'contacts' or has a lot of like minded and loyal mates, do your best to avoid them.

Even though the majority of chavs are weak willed smackheads who copy the likes of 50 centand Ali G in dress sense, when they are with mates they have to prove how tough they are. One comes at you, great, you can probably batter him no problem, but then his mates will come after you outside of school hours. Also, if anyone from one of these gangs recognises you at all in the future, they will almost certainly remember that you gave one of their 'associates' the old 'one two' and probably attack you with a bunch of mates.

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

Another point, unless in disagreements at your school it is common place for people to go home with broken and bloody noses, i do not suggest the old 'one two' since it will land you in the poo with teachers. Only do that if it is more than just a disagreement and you are actually being threatened i.e. its you or them who come out with some kind of injury. Otherwise, anything non lethal is perfectly fine, because a shin kick, body or arm punch, and any kind of finger or wrist lock generally don't leave any evidence that will sort of get you expelled. And since you probably won't want to seriously main or injury anyone, i suggest you don't lay into them.

Well thats my view anywau :rolleyes:

[Apotheosis]

My opinion, 98%(or higher) of high school fights are both pointless, and stupid. If people are just talking about you, deal with it using your head, no need to get physical. Figure out what the other kids problem with you is, and deal with it, being liked isnt the most important thing in life, but it sure makes it easier. If they dont like you because you of your skin color, then obviously it isnt your problem they have a problem with you. But if they dont like you because you stink, you might want to try showering:)

Also, I have some advice that goes against a previous post about reporting to an authority, while it can be a good option, it can also make things worse. So I would talk to a teacher/principal/parents, but dont name any names unless you feel it is necessary. For example, if people are picking on you everyday at lunch, you might want to tell them that, and they might be able to help you without making it seem like you went "crying" to the teacher. I would also like to point out, that you report/complain about the harrassment it will protect you in case things to get to a physical stage. You wont get expelled if you report harrassment, and then are forced to defend yourself.

If it does get physical, I would suggest you do anything within reasonable boundaries, grabbing a chair wouldnt be my first suggestion. Something that has worked pretty well from my own experience, is when in a confrontation, take a step back, hold your hands up, and say something like "I dont have a problem with you"(try to avoid sounding scared/nervous, that can just make things worse), afte ryou have done that, once or twice, you have established to anyone watching, via cameras or bystanders that you are not the instigator. After taking steps to prevent a fight, but you truly believe that you have no choice but to fight, the first punch can be very important, so take it. I would suggest you practice, if you box, then box him, if you do Muay Thai, then use that.

[Jesh]

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

This one is almost sig-worthy... :D

But like the rest said. If there is really no chance of escape, strike first. If you can avoid physical confrontation, do it.

[david28]

i did muay thai for months but now i box. the main problem is these idiots just want a fight and don't stop harrassing you till you react. The other day some kid in my grade whos is fairly big comes up to me and says come on lets fight. I said why. He said cause i want to smash you. So i just walked away and he laughed at me. I fill like a loser for not doing anything. Anyway thanks for the posts they were great.

[pj_goober]

i did muay thai for months but now i box. the main problem is these idiots just want a fight and don't stop harrassing you till you react. The other day some kid in my grade whos is fairly big comes up to me and says come on lets fight. I said why. He said cause i want to smash you. So i just walked away and he laughed at me. I fill like a loser for not doing anything. Anyway thanks for the posts they were great.

If these idiots are after you because they want a fight, then the LAST thing you want to do is fight them...thats giving in (even if you beat them into a bloody pulp, they've still gotten you to do something you didn't want to , so you haven't won have you..)

Take the high ground, walk away, ignore what people call you, they're just stupid kids. realise that there is a life outside of school. If these morons are looking for a rise out of you and you just walk away - yeah saying stuff like "i don't want to hurt you" might work - then sooner or later they'll move on to someone else.

People calling you a loser - so what?
People laughing at you - who cares?
People want a fight - then don't fight them.

[Afthelador]

Do not fight unless absolutely neccessary. When I was in gradeschool, I was KOed in the bathroom because of a couple of older kids picking on me. I may have been able to get out if I reacted right, but as it was, I ended up waking up in the middle of the floor after who knows how much time. Don't let them get your goad, but at the same time; be ready if the time comes because at some point or another pretty much everybody has a serious fight or two in situations like this.

[pablo147]

Im 14 and at school its pretty rough. You get idiots trying to fight you left right and centre. My question is if someones in your face bullying or smart talking you is it a good idead to just give them the old 1-2 even if their hands aren't up. If i do this when he isn't expecting it will i get called a coward. Is it a good idea to do this?

If it were me I wouldn't do anything until he used force against me (i.e. shoving or pushing). Just walk away from it, thats the simplest and easiest thing to do. Another thing is just dont let what they get say to you. If you really cant take it anymore either talk to someone or consult the person yourself. If you consult the person yourself make sure you bring some friends just incase it gets ugly. Anyway, I wouldnt strike first because you'd most likely get in more trouble for it than the other kid would.

[Davey Bones]

i did muay thai for months but now i box. the main problem is these idiots just want a fight and don't stop harrassing you till you react. The other day some kid in my grade whos is fairly big comes up to me and says come on lets fight. I said why. He said cause i want to smash you. So i just walked away and he laughed at me. I fill like a loser for not doing anything. Anyway thanks for the posts they were great.


NO, NO, NO! Do not succumb!

You are doing the right thing and your attitudes and understanding of the way things work would put many adults on this forum to shame! You are to be commended for your wisdom! And NEVER let anyone tell you differntly, they're just trying to bring you down to their level!

[TheDaveman]

well you should try to control your emotions and not let what they say get to you. but personally, if i got pissed off enough i would punch em back even if they werent ready. is it your fault they were too busy laughing at their own joke or not paying attention? no! so beat the crap out of them! beat them all down and show them whos boss! but first, try to let it not get to you or else youll end up in a suspension and your parents wont be too happy.

[MarineCorps03]

Im 14 and at school its pretty rough. You get idiots trying to fight you left right and centre. My question is if someones in your face bullying or smart talking you is it a good idead to just give them the old 1-2 even if their hands aren't up. If i do this when he isn't expecting it will i get called a coward. Is it a good idea to do this?



lol... suckerpunching this kid at that exact moment when hes bullying you would not be the best thing to do... and yea its highschool... but in highschool you have a reputation ... respect comes from that reputation... do your best to talk your way out of the verbally escalating situation and act like you want to be the kid whose bullying you's friend.... then later on in the day find out what classes he has... from past experience i would pick his Phys ED or gym class as it was in my school... see what period he has it and grab a buddy of yours... leave class a little early and wait it out in the gym locker room where everyone goes to change for the kid to come in for class.... when he comes in .... you should be able to suprise him.... punch from the side and keep drowning him with punches.... in my school teachers werent allowed in the locker rooms so noone of authority would be around to witness the fight... "no witnesses no charges" .... also if you have a buddy with you it will stop you from getting either 1. your ass kicked if you cant hit good enough ... or 2. any accusations on you because you buddy can play the aliby...... this always worked for me in high school.... and after every one in school hears what you did... you might not get picked on as much.... their might be a few kids who call you a coward... you can give them an all you can eat jab buffet in the locker room too.... we used to call the Gym locker room "the house of pain" ... fight for what you believe in....

[Matt_Bernius]

Look, I CANNOT stress how bad the previous advice is. Jumping someone for bullying IS NEVER A GOOD IDEA! Especially in a world of rapid escalation and nasty things like weapons. While we don't advocate ever letting someone beat you into a pulp, the type of "vigilante justice" just suggested is a great way to screw up one's life in ways that I would perfer not to count.

The school has mechanisms to protect you. If you don't take advantage of them you are screwed.

- Matt

[aikiMac]

So i just walked away and he laughed at me. I fill like a loser for not doing anything.
That was my life for a couple or three years so I can feel your pain, to coin a phrase. Truth is, you won. You won. He lost. Battle over. Good job.

Though you might not see it now, it does get better in time. Picking on me in college was the last thing on anyone's mind.

Oh, and -- jumping anybody at school would be a horrible, horrible mistake. Don't go down that road. It's a doorway to becoming one of BKG's clients. Ooooo, very bad.

[medi]

I find it helps, rather than attacking someone to visualize hammering them in the throat and gouging both their eyes out. Don't even pay attention to what they're saying. You'll find the cuckoo expression you get on your face while picturing dark scenarios scares a lot of bullies away.

[slipthejab]

lol... suckerpunching this kid at that exact moment when hes bullying you would not be the best thing to do... and yea its highschool... but in highschool you have a reputation ... respect comes from that reputation...

LOL!:D
Aren't you the guy who's first post was about how you and your Marine Corp. mates thought it was great fun to sucker punch people in fights you started in bars?! And the same guy who got booted from the Corps because you couldn't get in line? And now you're handing out gangland style advice to kids?
:eek:

do your best to talk your way out of the verbally escalating situation and act like you want to be the kid whose bullying you's friend.... then later on in the day find out what classes he has... from past experience i would pick his Phys ED or gym class as it was in my school... see what period he has it and grab a buddy of yours... leave class a little early and wait it out in the gym locker room where everyone goes to change for the kid to come in for class.... when he comes in .... you should be able to suprise him.... punch from the side and keep drowning him with punches.... in my school teachers werent allowed in the locker rooms so noone of authority would be around to witness the fight... "no witnesses no charges" .... also if you have a buddy with you it will stop you from getting either 1. your ass kicked if you cant hit good enough ... or 2. any accusations on you because you buddy can play the aliby...... this always worked for me in high school.... and after every one in school hears what you did... you might not get picked on as much.... their might be a few kids who call you a coward... you can give them an all you can eat jab buffet in the locker room too.... we used to call the Gym locker room "the house of pain" ... fight for what you believe in....

hmm... I dunno if that's the best advice in the world. It may work at first until the guy you ratpacked rocks up with his boys and catches you without your mate and then before you know it - your on the downhill side of a boot stomping... all in when it'd have been easier to walk away.

Don't let a fragile ego take advantage of the unknown quantity of your jaw.

[Davey Bones]

lol... suckerpunching this kid at that exact moment when hes bullying you would not be the best thing to do... and yea its highschool... but in highschool you have a reputation ... respect comes from that reputation... do your best to talk your way out of the verbally escalating situation and act like you want to be the kid whose bullying you's friend.... then later on in the day find out what classes he has... from past experience i would pick his Phys ED or gym class as it was in my school... see what period he has it and grab a buddy of yours... leave class a little early and wait it out in the gym locker room where everyone goes to change for the kid to come in for class.... when he comes in .... you should be able to suprise him.... punch from the side and keep drowning him with punches.... in my school teachers werent allowed in the locker rooms so noone of authority would be around to witness the fight... "no witnesses no charges" .... also if you have a buddy with you it will stop you from getting either 1. your ass kicked if you cant hit good enough ... or 2. any accusations on you because you buddy can play the aliby...... this always worked for me in high school.... and after every one in school hears what you did... you might not get picked on as much.... their might be a few kids who call you a coward... you can give them an all you can eat jab buffet in the locker room too.... we used to call the Gym locker room "the house of pain" ... fight for what you believe in....

Please don't follow this advice.

Despite the claims to the contrary, this is a one-way road to juvi detention for assault. I'd prefer not having you as one of my clients. The moral high road may suck at times, but it's better than being labelled as a juvenile delinquent, trust me.

[Jesh]

I find it helps, rather than attacking someone to visualize hammering them in the throat and gouging both their eyes out. Don't even pay attention to what they're saying. You'll find the cuckoo expression you get on your face while picturing dark scenarios scares a lot of bullies away.

LOL... sounds like somekind of Jedi mind-trick to me... (a Dark Jedi that is...)

[MarineCorps03]

Slipthejab is right... if the kids into serious ganglife then doing what i said wouldnt be a good idea.... but hey maybe if you give him a grimey enough beating he'll ask you to join the gang then you wont have to worry about ****... pry best to just take his bullying... high school drama ends when you graduate and you shouldnt have to deal with it anymore..... if he puts his hands on you thats another story... defend yourself but dont punch... youll get suspended even if its in self defence if you punched..

[medi]

but hey maybe if you give him a grimey enough beating he'll ask you to join the gang then you wont have to worry about ****...

Yes, joining a gang solves all known social problems. It's been proven by Science.

[Apotheosis]

Heh..I'm surprised the Marines didnt use this doofus as cannon fodder.

[MarineCorps03]

Heh..I'm surprised the Marines didnt use this doofus as cannon fodder.


they tried

[Davey Bones]

ACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*Please note that the above [and now deleted, thanks for alerting me - Matt] comment is VERY illegal! :bang:

[Matt_Bernius]

ACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*Please note that the above comment is VERY illegal! :bang:Noted and taken care of...

- Matt

[Checkhands]

David28
Do you plan to go to college? I know it's a little ways off, but think about it.
You're saying these guys are just trying to fight and probably means they're doing the same thing to other people. I know it's hard, but don't get caught up in that mess. Keep doing what you're doing. Walk away, let 'em laugh.
I got into plenty of fights in high school and all of 'em were outside so, there wasn't any authority until the cops would show up. I gotta' tell you, they were never pretty. The last of your worries is the fourth guy comin' up behind you while the three in front are backin you up. What you've gotta' worry about, like other people have posted, is the escalation.
So, what happens when your boys come in and you beat 'em off? Everyones talkin', word spreads and they're gettin' heated 'cause they're losin' face. If they're gangbangers, they'll wait 'til they've got their boys or you don't have yours. That's the better scenario. I'm sure I don't have explain the worse ones to you.
Not only that but colleges, even community colleges, look down at records that have fighting on 'em. I don't mean it's a small mention, I mean they'll move you to the bottom of the pile and take you IF they can't find someone else. Oh yea, fighting on your school record disqualifies you from most scholarship programs. Doesn't matter if you've got a 4.0 GPA and 1500 on SATs, you've essentially shot your educational career in the foot with a 12-gauge slug.

[galorin]

I had a somewhat similar experience in High School (Horrible, horrible time. School is evil). The bully that picked on me started a few weeks into my freshman year. He was 6 feet, fancied himself a kickboxer, but was just an addict on the 5 year program. I just avoided him or ignored him. I figured it was the normal hazing that we freshmen got.

Later that year, he got tired of me ignoring him, since I was the only one he picked on that wouldn't fight back. He shoved me around in the locker room a bit, and then took a swing at me. He did hit me, but for all he fancied himself a MAist he couldn't hit worth a darn. I didn't stay up though (110 pounds, glasses, yeah, I was a geek, now I'm an IT consultant). He got suspended, and never harassed me again.

Quite a few bullies get bored with you and move on if you are boring to them. Some beat the snot out of you then leave you alone (or in his case, sort-of, but not really tried). It might be worth taking a few licks to be rid of him, then you can get them suspended, maybe prosecuted for assault,

Never start anything. Even if you do win and come out unscathed, you still lost.

[Yohan]

I absolutely agree that if you fight, you lose. I was a dork in middle school and got picked on constantly. I only laid my hands on one person due to verbal provocation, and I didn't hurt him, I just showed him who was boss. It gets a bit more serious in high school, and the people who stay in trouble there will be one step behind the people who watch their backs and stay out of trouble.

Case in point . . . most of the people who started crap with me and got in trouble and fights are now losers. Most of them are overweight, drug users, uneducated etc.

It's so much fun to see these people these days, because for all the fights they tried to start with me, I won.

[lordazazel]

While I can sympathise to a degree with those who think it's better to walk away, you have to face facts: It's not always possible to avoid physical confrontations. Sure, this bully hasn't gone as far as violence (YET!!!). But many will no doubt know through experience that if you back down and turn the other cheek, these predators will go a step further (and another step further after that!) until they have you in their back pocket. :bang:

So what's the best solution to a bad situation? Those who grew up in slums will tell you that sometimes the only way to deal with scum like this is to talk to them in the only language they understand. They are simply too stupid and ignorant to understand any other way. My advice to the poster is, if this piece of garbage goes for him again, he should use whatever means necessary to defend himself. All the do-gooders can say what they like, but self-preservation is the fundamental law of nature. :woo:

[Shrukin89]

You're doing the right thing David. Follow what you feel, in anyway to avoid a fight. Go ahead and walk away, and let them laugh too.

If they keep on bugging you and you had enough. Don't strike back at them, tell someone. Your teacher, or a supervisor, or a best friend. You don't have to feel like an idiot at all, you won't regret it later on. If you ask your parents of what you did of how you avoided it, they will be proud. If you can ask your parents to help, they will. Trust me dude, you still are growing up. You are a well more mature student than they are. Not to forget a mature Martial Artist.

If they ask that you are a coward, don't listen to them. They can say all they want, but every word they say is complete crap. It means nothing relating to you who you are at all.

Afterwards in the future the bullies will get the same crap ;).

And I have to totally agree that they are trying to bring you down to their level, as being one of the bullies.

If they try to attack don't hold back but make a distraction, kick to the shins, and a finger jab to the eyes, and get out of the situation as fast as possible.