Too Many Talkers not enough Do'ers

[JKNEIEIOMMC]

Our instructors, Sbn Don MacKenzie, PSBN Gavin Chung and KSN Wullie Ennis have always preached do your talking on the mats. Not once have they been found wanting! There are too many instructors and students out there that blah blah blah too much and strut around like there something special. Put them on the mats and they don't last 2 seconds. Kuk Sool Won MacKenzie is here to set the standard! Keep an eye on this thread and you'll see what we're talking about. Too many students do a demo thats crap and makes Kuk Sool look bad and then make the excuse of "Oh but we didn't practice".........they shouldn't have to practice. If they train the way they are meant to then they should be ready at any time to demo. There are no excuses!

[Ikken Hisatsu]

my dad could SO beat your dad up.

[inthespirit]

LOL... great start...

[|MT|omar]

my dad could SO beat your dad up.

haha

you gotta remember man EVERYONE talks, even the president or the prime minister or whatever... and let me tell ya right now, neither of the 2 people mentioned above ever act... and if they do, they do it wrong.

it's part of life, something you cant get rid of and something you gotta get used to

[oni_sensei]

^ What they said. Let's keep this fight clean gentlemen :P

[jonmonk]

If we're talking on the mats we get told to shut up :)

[Slindsay]

Our instructors, Sbn Don MacKenzie, PSBN Gavin Chung and KSN Wullie Ennis have always preached do your talking on the mats. Not once have they been found wanting! There are too many instructors and students out there that blah blah blah too much and strut around like there something special. Put them on the mats and they don't last 2 seconds. Kuk Sool Won MacKenzie is here to set the standard! Keep an eye on this thread and you'll see what we're talking about. Too many students do a demo thats crap and makes Kuk Sool look bad and then make the excuse of "Oh but we didn't practice".........they shouldn't have to practice. If they train the way they are meant to then they should be ready at any time to demo. There are no excuses!

I'm curious as to what exactly they do on the mats to prove themselves?

[Ikken Hisatsu]

hey randome assortment of letters for a name, maybe you could show us a demo of your mad skills?

[KsnMmC-Scotland]

Hey we are about 2, watch this space and we will be adding links to what we do. I believe in letting people make up their own mind and no better way than to see rather than type a diss or bs blah blah on pc.

[justinksw]

I sit in anticipation of what you offer to us as a show of mad skills...

people talk and that's all it is - just talk. You are right (in your own wierd way of saying it) that folks who put on a bad demo don't do their art any justice because people just walk away thinking about how crappy it was.

The thing is though - you can do what we as martial artists would consider a 'crappy demo' and about 90% of the public sits there and says "WOW!!! Did you see that chick throw that huge guy?!? That was awesome!!"

Most people aren't as critical as we are and when you're doing a demo, I think there is a little room to be a bit off on some of the throws. I mean they realize it is a demo after all, you're not really trying to kill each other.

If you want a realistic demo showing the true mad skills then go at each other and go for the kill, just make it a UFC type match and see what the crowd thinks then. I bet most of them leave saying 'my kids aren't taking that brutal martial art!".

Now I'm just ranting and I apologize for that, I think you get my drift here.

Have a great day!! :D

[JKNEIEIOMMC]

Where did we once mention anything about mad skills. What we have is skills that are true and not full of BS like that quad day demo! You will see in due course the skills we have to offer. Since we have some non-believers it would be interesting to see if you guys have anything to show us, to see your standard or is it the case that we have more folk just shouting there mouth off from behind a PC?

[Slindsay]

Like what?

I'm a student, not an instructor, as far as I'm concerned I'm allowed to criticise people however the hell I like seeing as I don't claim to be any good at fighting myself, I just claim to have an open mind.

[KSWarrior]

Over here in the United States we don't get to hear about what the schools over seas are like to much. Other than your school are there any other schools that train really hard and who are their instructors?

[KsnMmC-Scotland]

All in good time my young padawin..... lol lol There are many different people who practise martial art for many different reasons and they are intitled to do so. Martial arts is ment to be about training open and honestly and finding whats right for yourself ! Leading to the development of the participent should be the aim. Our instructor Sa Bum Nim Don(4th degree assistant master) has studied many different styles of martial art and fighting methods and it shows in his teaching. He is directly under Master Ives the head of the UK and before that Master Ducker. In his teaching it shows that he came from a fighting background as we always cover semi-contact for beginers and non practised people and full contact take down for us the more advanced(as well as the traditional training as well). Kicking range, Punching range and grappling range into joint locking range. Continual fighting with little rules as long as students are confident and ready for that element.
If the instructor is well rounded the student becomes well rounded. If the instructor is poor at say jumping kicks or fighting - chances are he will attract students who are not keen on those aspects.. ie the student will be weak in that area as well.
Lucky for us we have a well rounded instructor so we have become very high standard at all aspects of our style.
Demo's are only demo's and most normal person loves seeing the little woman throw the big guy because they can understand the level they are seeing.. however there are others who need proper application like us.
Living in Scotland is a bit different and we need to make sure we cater for both sides.
The students who want to practise as fitness more like a dance class lol and the ones who are interested in full application of themselves and of the art.

[hux]

...or is it the case that we have more folk just shouting there mouth off from behind a PC?

Well...if by that you mean posting here out of the blue pretty much saying "we are t3h d34dly!!", then I'd have to say, uh, yea. You came here, we didn't come to your place and ask. I mean - your very first post says "I am so badass you all should leave right now".

Does your instructor know you're running around on the internet picking fights in his name?

Does this seem like Deja vu to anybody else?

Here is the link you provided as yours:

http://www.edinburgh-ksw.com/

in the gallery there are some video clips.

[KSWarrior]

I have never heard of your instructor. Which doesn't mean much at all. But by the way you describe him, he must be a pretty good instructor. Keep up the tough training it will all pay off one day when you have to defend yourself on the street! :woo:

[KSWarrior]

Thank you for sharing! I like the design of the site. But the photos and videos shed a lot of light onto our recent conversations!

[TomB]

dont see the point in breaking boards
i want to do vale tudo or shoot fighting now that hes said the word mats

[Pacificshore]

"Boards don't hit back"...Bruce Lee....althought true, I'm just messin....I thought all the kicking ones were cool ;)

[hux]

the kicks looked really good IMO - but something tells me our current posters aren't in the videos. I'd be real interested to know if the instructor knows about the bragging being done in his name - likely without his knowledge. My instructor would look down on that pretty hard.

[Slindsay]

Err, all I can see is some pics of people jumping impresivley high but nothing actually relating to fighting, is that just me?

[baubin2]

Where did we once mention anything about mad skills. What we have is skills that are true and not full of BS like that quad day demo! You will see in due course the skills we have to offer. Since we have some non-believers it would be interesting to see if you guys have anything to show us, to see your standard or is it the case that we have more folk just shouting there mouth off from behind a PC?
If you'll go over my post again, you'll notice that I didn't claim anything. I just posted a video because I thought people might like to see it. I only interjected comments when I thought other posters were getting out of hand or when it seemed that they misunderstood something. It was mostly the rest of the forum that did the talking. So from one KSWer to another, I'd appreciate it if you would please stop with the snide comments. If you have anything to say, say it in the appropriate thread and in a respectful manner. Bashing and snide comments are what I expect from morons who don't know any better, not people who I KNOW were drilled in the basics of respect and etiquette, at least in the dojang.

[AZeitung]

All I can say is, I think I'm starting to see why people who do MMA dislike TMAs so much.

[KsnMmC-Scotland]

If you read my posts I am simply passing my thought. I aint once said I am looking for a fight m8. I am simply sayn we cover all aspects in our training. And yeah my Instructor is also my work buddy and very close friend more like brothers so he knows what am posting up because he is sitting here with me as I type this. I aint saying anythng other than what is and the truth. The link is our old website and will be getting updated soon so feel free to view anytime. A lot of stuff been taken off and a lot of new stuff going up. After 15 years teaching experience, of not just Kuk Sool I hardly came on here to what you suggest!! I think if you read my stuff again you will find I am explaining the facts after so many people are quick to slag other martial arts and people they don't even know. POINT OUT ANYWHERE IN MY REPLYS WHERE I HAVE ASKED CHALLENGERS TO COME FORWARD OR WHO WANTS A FIGHT LOL lol ! I don't think so.
As for posting out the blue I was invited here by members who have been using this site for a while now....and anyway is that not the point of a forum to speak with and pass on experiences with other people...or is it that some people with an open mind just want to hear themselves or what they think is the truth.
All good

[Slindsay]

Our instructors, Sbn Don MacKenzie, PSBN Gavin Chung and KSN Wullie Ennis have always preached do your talking on the mats. Not once have they been found wanting!

See where I train getting on the mats means you'r challenging people to spar.

There are too many instructors and students out there that blah blah blah too much and strut around like there something special.

Which is insuinuating that some of the people on MAP are full of crap.

Put them on the mats and they don't last 2 seconds. Kuk Sool Won MacKenzie is here to set the standard!

"We're great!"

Keep an eye on this thread and you'll see what we're talking about. Too many students do a demo thats crap and makes Kuk Sool look bad and then make the excuse of "Oh but we didn't practice".........they shouldn't have to practice.


"You suck!"

If they train the way they are meant to then they should be ready at any time to demo. There are no excuses!

"You really suck!!"

And this is the first post made. Nice.

I'm gonna let you guess how often someone posts something like this here, then turns out to be full of crap when challenged. Go on, guess.

[KSWarrior]

Hey BauBin2 do you train in chicago or are you training in champiagn or where?

[AZeitung]

If you read my posts I am simply passing my thought. I aint once said I am looking for a fight m8. I am simply sayn we cover all aspects in our training. And yeah my Instructor is also my work buddy and very close friend more like brothers so he knows what am posting up because he is sitting here with me as I type this. I aint saying anythng other than what is and the truth. The link is our old website and will be getting updated soon so feel free to view anytime. A lot of stuff been taken off and a lot of new stuff going up. After 15 years teaching experience, of not just Kuk Sool I hardly came on here to what you suggest!! I think if you read my stuff again you will find I am explaining the facts after so many people are quick to slag other martial arts and people they don't even know. POINT OUT ANYWHERE IN MY REPLYS WHERE I HAVE ASKED CHALLENGERS TO COME FORWARD OR WHO WANTS A FIGHT LOL lol ! I don't think so.
As for posting out the blue I was invited here by members who have been using this site for a while now....and anyway is that not the point of a forum to speak with and pass on experiences with other people...or is it that some people with an open mind just want to hear themselves or what they think is the truth.
All good

First of all, who are you talking to?

Second of all, incase you didn't notice, MAP isn't a "mat" - it's one letter off. As far as I can tell, coming on here boasting about how great you are isn't doing your talking on the mat. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Finally, you have not posted a single thing that indicates you would be any good on the mat. The site I saw has a bunch of clips of board breaks and your instructor leaping through the air. If you would like, I can post some pictures of my old instructor, SBN Seitz leaping through the air. It doesn't prove a thing.

I continually test myself on the mat against people, not in a competition of who's stance is the lowest during ki bohn soo, or who can do the best ki cho jaki, but in real grappling. I practice grappling in Kuk Sool, during breaks I practice grappling in Judo, I practice against people with wrestling experience, and a couple times a year I practice against the people from the Davenport club, which focuses largely on grappling. In addition, I will be practicing grappling in my MMA class, although we're doing mostly striking right now - with people who are nationally ranked in gi and no gi grappling, as well as submission wrestling.

I would love for you to do some talking on that mat - but all I see so far is meaningless, arrogant boasting on a martial arts forum.

[KsnMmC-Scotland]

lol fair enough mate fair enough lol lol u r the master u win lol i bow 2 u

[Ikken Hisatsu]

go away troll. I bet these winners are the same person. or at least are sharing the same braincell.

[baubin2]

Hey BauBin2 do you train in chicago or are you training in champiagn or where?
I live in the Chicago area, but not in Chicago exactly. Even on a nice forum like this, I don't really feel like giving out my exact address. I attend school in Champaign and I train there as well.

[JKNEIEIOMMC]

We are not hear to boast. Very few people will understand! What we are getting at is that it is good if someone does a martial, good on them but what we can't stand is people running about the place shouting there mouth off, acting like there god yet when they step on to the mat do do a kick, breakfall, technique, form, acrobatic, etc they are found wanting and can't live up to what they said. If you came and trained with us you would see that we are probably some of the most humble and respectful practitioners you would come across.

Like KsnMmc_Scotland said we are not here to pick fights, but to merely voice our opinions and thoughts.

The comments I made about the demo and about being ready at all times is just our BELIEF. Not once did say or imply that anyone sucks. I simply stated that we have been brought up to have a standard whereby our instructor could phone us to say there was a demo the next day and we'd be ready for it.

I have respect for everyone that trains in a martial art. All martial arts are good. Not everyone is going to be the next Bruce Lee. All that matters is that the person aims to be the best that they can be. A monkey can be taught to kick and punch but it can't be taught to become a better person. Not everyone is genetically designed to perform amazing kicks or flips etc. I don't care if the person can kick 1" off the ground or 20ft off the ground, if they are doing the best that they can do then great. Just don't have a bad attitude and act like you are the next Bruce Lee.

[Pugil]

Err, all I can see is some pics of people jumping impresivley high but nothing actually relating to fighting, is that just me?

Yes, you're right... It's all very athletic, and makes for nice pictures, but it has bugger all to do with actual fighting. These guys are in Edinburgh, they should go 'play' on the mats with the likes of Rick Young for 5 minutes... only, the first 2 or 3 seconds would do it anyway!

Pugil

[KsnMmC-Scotland]

All Good People Lol I Like I Said In My Pm 2 Ya's....not All Kuksoolwon Instructors Stick With Kuksool Tradition. In Scotland We Do Our Own Thing And Our Instructor Is Kool With Us Training And Mixn With The Likes Of Ric Young , Mma, Boxn You Name It. He Understands The Principles Of Mma And Why It Can Only Benefit The Student And Help The Style Become Stronger. My Aim Is 2 Share Experiences And Clear The Air Here Thats Why I Pmd Rather Than Talk Bad On A Forum....
Lets Move On From Man
Wksa Is One Thing But Kuksool Scotland Is Different And Am Sure U Would Agree If You Couild Meet The Instructors And Train With Us And Share Experiences Of The Journey
L8rz Peace

[KsnMmC-Scotland]

lol sorry that was ment 2 say lets move on from here man .
walk on

[JKN_RSM]

Alright folks, I train regulary with KJN John Watson and SBN Darren Hart and many people in the UK regard these 2 as being the best around. I can safely say that both of them have the utmost respect for the guys in Scotland. Anytime they've ever mentioned them, its always been the same words I hear.....fierce, dedicated, diligent, respectful, and etiquette 2nd to none. These guys are at the top of there game and it says something when the top guys in the UK are talking about them like this. I've seen these guys at demos, tournaments and seminars and believe me they are amazing at every range of fighting, as well as there physical conditioning. They don't brag or boast! They just get in the dojang and train till they drop and then leave. There is no BS and there is no crap from them. Ask any Kuk Sool instructor in the UK about these guys and you'll here the same from them.

[KsnMmC-Scotland]

Hello Buddy.
Say Hello To Masters Watson And Big D From Me And The Scottish Boys.
We Are Looking Forward To The Next Time They Can Make It Up For Training Seminars. Last Time Was Good Fun With Masta Watson.
Be Seeing Them Soon At The European Championships In November

[JKNEIEIOMMC]

Just want to finish off guys saying that we mean no disrepect to any martial artist, Kuk Sool Won School, Student or Instructor. We are simply on here to voice our opinions and share our experiences with you.

[Taliar]

Just want to finish off guys saying that we mean no disrepect to any martial artist, Kuk Sool Won School, Student or Instructor. We are simply on here to voice our opinions and share our experiences with you.

Perhaps you'll learn something aswell!!!! :D

[KSWDragon]

Just want to finish off guys saying that we mean no disrepect to any martial artist, Kuk Sool Won School, Student or Instructor. We are simply on here to voice our opinions and share our experiences with you.

that's cool....there are people that swan about thinking they're something they're not!! You get them in all walks of life not just martial arts!! They get shown up eventually!! :D

...but believe me you're not the only ones who train hard!!! :cool:

It's the only way IMO!

[Taliar]

Private Message deleted by Saz: Private Means Private. What part of PRIVATE message escaped you?

[JKN_RSM]

I think thats pretty poor of you to post someone's PM to you. It clearly shows a lack of respect the person and shows the type of person you are!.

I agree the original post could have been worded better but I know of these guys and they are always open to learning from anyone that has anything to offer. They would never do anything to intentionally cause an aggro. I would say there first post was more about showing Kuk Sool in a high standard rather than coming here to teach everyone a lesson.

Too many people come on here talking a load of BS and put KSW in a bad light when there are martial artists like Master Watson, SBN Hart and the guys up in Glasgow and Edinburgh trying to set the benchmark of what everyone should be aiming at. If I had the chance to stand in a hall with 5 Kuk Sool Won Practitioners from the UK it would simple to choose. KJN John Watson, SBN Darren Hart, SBN Don MacKenzie, PSBN Gavin and KSN Wullie Ennis. With the 5 of these guys you would be struggling to find an area of KSW that they couldn't demonstrate or teach at the highest level. I can also say that they have some top quality students training under them in Glasgow and Edinburgh, 2 in particular that have won the under blackbelt grand champion title the last 2 years.

Also in case anyone decides to have a go at JKNEIEIO's comment about learning more from teaching a student that his instructor. I know many will think that as being disrespectful to his instructors but I know that this is the same belief as KJN John Watson. Its easy to be taught and be a student but its a lot harder to teach and more so a GOOD teacher. Its when you start teaching someone that you really find out how much you know about your chosen art.

[thepunisher]

Our instructors, Sbn Don MacKenzie, PSBN Gavin Chung and KSN Wullie Ennis have always preached do your talking on the mats. Not once have they been found wanting! There are too many instructors and students out there that blah blah blah too much and strut around like there something special. Put them on the mats and they don't last 2 seconds. Kuk Sool Won MacKenzie is here to set the standard! Keep an eye on this thread and you'll see what we're talking about. Too many students do a demo thats crap and makes Kuk Sool look bad and then make the excuse of "Oh but we didn't practice".........they shouldn't have to practice. If they train the way they are meant to then they should be ready at any time to demo. There are no excuses!

..not to preach but do at this very moment you are bragging about us much as anybody. I haven't seen your dojo do any demos so I can't judge but to be honest, your attitude reminds me of an ex-buddy of mine. Big mouth and not sure how much behind it.

Christian

[AZeitung]

I agree the original post could have been worded better but I know of these guys and they are always open to learning from anyone that has anything to offer. They would never do anything to intentionally cause an aggro. I would say there first post was more about showing Kuk Sool in a high standard rather than coming here to teach everyone a lesson.

You know these *specific* guys? Whether or not they were intentionally causing aggravation, I read these specific statements:


Too many students do a demo thats crap and makes Kuk Sool look bad and then make the excuse of "Oh but we didn't practice".........they shouldn't have to practice. If they train the way they are meant to then they should be ready at any time to demo. There are no excuses!



What we have is skills that are true and not full of BS like that quad day demo!



Demo's are only demo's and most normal person loves seeing the little woman throw the big guy because they can understand the level they are seeing.. however there are others who need proper application like us.



If you came and trained with us you would see that we are probably some of the most humble and respectful practitioners you would come across.


and yet he also said:


Our instructors, Sbn Don MacKenzie, PSBN Gavin Chung and KSN Wullie Ennis have always preached do your talking on the mats. Not once have they been found wanting! There are too many instructors and students out there that blah blah blah too much and strut around like there something special. Put them on the mats and they don't last 2 seconds. Kuk Sool Won MacKenzie is here to set the standard! Keep an eye on this thread and you'll see what we're talking about. Too many students do a demo thats crap and makes Kuk Sool look bad and then make the excuse of "Oh but we didn't practice".........they shouldn't have to practice. If they train the way they are meant to then they should be ready at any time to demo. There are no excuses!


So whether or not their intent was to cause aggression, or merely to be praised as heros in the Kuk Sool world, there were some very specific insults to specific people on this forum, as well as quite a bit of posturing and finally, arrogant, patronizing politeness. It was mainly JKNEIEIOMMC that I found offensive, but I think there were things that both he and KsnMmC-Scotland could have worded better.

[Taliar]

Sorry but I totally disagree. This is a public forum and their was no request not to make his PM public. I replied in the forum as that is were the question/debate originated and by doing so every one can make their own judgement on the conversation. I've got nothing to hide in a PM, an dthis way everyone gets the responce. I was not intending to be offensive, just pointing out that first impressions count and for your opinion to be taken seriously it might be better to have a slightly more laid back attaitude than seemed to be put forward in JKNEIEIOMMC's posts.

[JKN_RSM]

"So whether or not their intent was to cause aggression, or merely to be praised as heros in the Kuk Sool world, there were some very specific insults to specific people on this forum, as well as quite a bit of posturing and finally, arrogant, patronizing politeness."


I wouldn't say that they are trying to be patronising, just apologising to the people that took it the way it wasn't intended.

They are merely trying to tell people out there that there are a few Kuk Sool Practitioners who do practice seriously and passionately and look to promote the art they do in the best possible light. I think it just goes to show the level of maturity of the people on this forum when they see a post from a fellow MA apologising for the the way they worded a post and decide to continually have a go at them. I'm sure everyone in here has at one time or another said something that came across the wrong way.

As for the so called bragging, yeah people will see it as that but other true martial artists that train hard like these guys will see it in a different light. They too will know many instructors and students that talk the talk but crumble when they step on the mat. Thats all they were getting at. I'm pretty sure that if you seen these guys in action you would see that they have the skills to back up what they are saying.

[AZeitung]

Sorry but I totally disagree. This is a public forum and their was no request not to make his PM public. I replied in the forum as that is were the question/debate originated and by doing so every one can make their own judgement on the conversation. I've got nothing to hide in a PM, an dthis way everyone gets the responce. I was not intending to be offensive, just pointing out that first impressions count and for your opinion to be taken seriously it might be better to have a slightly more laid back attaitude than seemed to be put forward in JKNEIEIOMMC's posts.
I wouldn't worry too much about it - JKN_RSM may have overreacted slightly - however, if I remember correctly, on Usenet, there were actually legal reasons that you weren't allowed to post private e-mails to newsgroups. I'm not sure whether or not this applies to posting PMs to this forum, but it might. So just be careful in the future. As long as JKNEIEIOMC doesn't have a problem with it, you should be fine, though.

[Wolf]

Sorry but I totally disagree. This is a public forum and their was no request not to make his PM public.
The only real problem is that some mods might come after you for it because it's against ToS.

[Saz]

No kidding!

The clue is in the title - its called a Private Message for a reason.

4.14.2 Private Messages are private. Do not post the contents of private mesages in public forum areas.

[JKNEIEIOMMC]

This is my final comment!!

1 - my original post was aimed at only Kuk Sool Won practitioners not general MA.

2- "stepping on the mats" was meant in a generalised sense ie, to perform a kick, a punch, a technique, an acrobatic, a form etc....not just all out fighting

3 - My post about the demo being crap, which I realise I shouldn't have said, was about the quad day demo. This was simply my opinion based on what I saw. This was by no means a dig at any student or instructor or school although it might have seemed that way.

4 - our Kuk Sool Won website was not designed to show true fighting, it was designed to appeal to the general population.

Thank you.

[KSWDragon]

just checked out the website which is one of the best KSW sites I've seen, which one are you?....have you anymore vids or photos of your training?

is that your instructor on the last video?? Pretty good kicking if you ask me!