What is YOUR JKD?

[thiaboxr2]

A couple of years ago I met an instructor in Kajukempo, kali, BJJ, JKD...etc. I was talking to him and we were discussing the arts we train in. He mentioned that his school bases their JKD off of Kajukempo.
My school in wich I train at bases JKD off of Muey Thia with grappling and weapons mixed in along with Wing Chun.

When I come accross schools like this, I wonder what is REALLY being taught. Is it someones personel style based off of JKD concepts and theories. In all reality you cant call it JKD, becaue we are being taught very specific styles. If you noticed, all JKD schools utilize the Pak Sao from wing chun. Thia roundhouse from Muey Thia And the exact same entry techniques to close the gap to your opponent.
I know that Guru Dan Inasanto has over 40 different styles that he uses techniques from in his school when he teaches JKD. But is it actual JKD concepts or his personel blend of the arts that he is teaching.
Dont get me wrong, I know the basics are needed in every style before one can go further But I dont see much originality when it comes to teaching JKD. From what I seen most techniques are the same. It seems that what we were supposed to do was "free your mind" but what we did was cloud our own vision and became robots again. All said was just my opinion based off my experience, not ment to offend anybody.

[YODA]

If you noticed, all JKD schools utilize the Pak Sao from wing chun

Not mine mate :D


I can see where you're coming from - many people have replaced one classical mess with a new one. Blind faith is well - -blind :D

[Marku]

as bruce lee said in his lost interview, its VERY hard for one to express themselves proberly in martial arts.

[thiaboxr2]

And this brings up one more question. If you stay in this school long enough and get your blackbelt, what would you be a blackbelt in? Remember JKD has no belts. Yet the school teaches a blend of styles and calls it JKD. Would you be a black belt in various styles or one style combined of many styles?

The one thing I still see true is that its still a ' nameless art '.

[Genki_ETHOS]

Hi thiaboxr2,

I know what u mean, its very hard to explain but il try my best... Jeet Kune Do in Bruces words is just a name, it is different from other martial arts as it is actually your OWN "fighting style/system" - bruce wanted ppl to use everything that worked for THEM, and throw away everything that didn't work. that is why so many different arts are involved in JKD - it is considered limitless - hence the quote on bruces original club logo.

HOWEVER, JKD has to be taught somehow, therefore it has to have its own sylabus with its own set of techniques etc.

hopefully you understand what im trying to say and hopefully i haven't confused u :)

back to your last question i guess when you have a black belt in JKD it doesn't mean your highly trained in all the arts that are involved... just the fighting art of jeet kune do

:)

[SteveJKDUK]

I think the definition of JKD can appear to be so open-ended at times, which is probably why there is so much confusion about. The confusion then leads to all the politics that we hate.

Going off topic a bit, it can be safe to say that the concepts behind JKD is influenced by the principles of many styles, eg Muay Thai, Wing Chun, Boxng, Fencing etc. Some schools emphasise certain aspects more than others. I think thats fine. It's like making a cup of tea. Some people prefer it with milk, some don't etc. The blend is different but essentially, it is still tea by definition.

However, what people shouldn't do is assume they have mastered that system just because they've skimmed through those various systems. I feel JKD as a philosophy does say that it's ok for you to look for the best out of different styles. If you see something you like, then there is no harm into studying that style in depth. The important thing is not be bound by it. I personally think thats where all the confusion lies.

However, for me, its fun learning about other arts! Thats why I do it when I can! :-)

[wayofthedragon]

wonderfully said steve.....
wonderfully said;)

[wayofthedragon]

I liked what you said too Genki


Anyway.....When I was doing jeet kune do traing. I learned all about what it was about, it's concepts, and different lil' tricks and stuff....you know...different lil' things;)
But for the most part we did a lot of training in wing chun, kick boxing, and brazilian jujitsu. That was it, for 3 years My insturctor also, started teaching us kali after a while.....
but I wasnt' attending those classes then. I moved on to shaolin and capoeira (only 1 year) and then later to wado ryu karate (only 4 months) What will be next.....I don't know, but I'm looking for something else to do (martial arts that is) Probally will be some style of karate being that is what the majority is in my area

[Vrax]

all who are interested in "deciphering the classical mess" should do themselves a favor. go out and buy a copy of "the way of no way" by jerry beasley. jerry is a long time student of JKD, under joe lewis (the kickboxing champ). thhe basic concept behind the book is that although it is impossible to categorically label something "JKD" it IS possible to label things that are "not JKD" and thereby we can outline what's left over. this is called redactive reasoning, or redactive JKD in this case.

also if you leave neaar radford virginia jerry, and joe (as well as other rotating guests, such as ted wong) hold yearly seminars at radford university.

the only basic concepts that are always true to the spirit of JKD are being well versed in the 5 ways of attack, and the 4/5 ranges of fighting.

[oneil357]

To me jkd is combining your personel strenght and your personel weaknesses into the form that you find the most comftorable and successful to you the individual, now in order to do this you need some form of schooling, the key is not to restrict yourself in your training and education of the arts, one persons failure can be another person success to me JEET KUNE DO IS ALL TRIAL AND ERROR, if you are a puncher punch, if your a kicker kick, never force yourself to kick or punch if it is uncomftorble to you, once agian use only what is best for YOU never comprimise this because people say you should, strengthen YOUR tools thru practice practice practice and you will be a master of this art called jeet kune do, HAPPY FIGHTING

[oneil357]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by oneil357
[B]To me jkd is combining your personel strenght and your personel weaknesses into the form that you find the most comftorable and successful to you the individual, now in order to do this you need some form of schooling, the key is not to restrict yourself in your training and education of the arts, one persons failure can be another person success to me JEET KUNE DO IS ALL TRIAL AND ERROR, if you are a puncher punch, if your a kicker kick, never force yourself to kick or punch if it is uncomftorble to you, once agian use only what is best for YOU never comprimise this because people say you should, strengthen YOUR tools thru practice practice practice and you will be a master of this art called jeet kune do, HAPPY FIGHTING

"Violence can only be stopped by greater violence"- bruce lee

[Tireces]

'My Jeet Kune Do" is basically the core system that Bruce taught, because it has all its bases covered (except grappling, and weapons. which I suppose I'll go into detail on later). I however give preference to the straight lead, the front leg hook kick, the front leg sidekick, the lead hand hook, the backfist, and the lead hand uppercut. Those are the ones I find work the absolute best for me, though I still make use of the cross, the rear straight (basically a more powerful but more unwieldy cross), the corkscrew hook, and the ever popular rear leg roundhouse kick. The grappling my school teaches only differs a bit from standing to actual groundfighting. The groundfighting is almost entirely derived from gracie jiu-jitsu, but the standing takedowns are more from Silat, due to similarities between the stance silat operates from and our own, so striking can quickly be chained to a takedown with minimization of excess motion. Our weapon facet is pretty much filipino kali, not only because of it being probably the best form of unarmored armed combat there is, but also because the stance it operates from is again, damn near the same as our own. This allows for a much easier transition between these different aspects of fighting, allowing us to move between them almost as freely as if Bruce had managed to incorporate them into the core system before his unfortunate death. If any are curious as to the school I attend (or did attend, I have been dealing with the aftermath of a nasty sprain to my left ankle, and as those who train in the core system know, that rear foot is the one most important part of it), I highly recommend training there if you are interested in Jeet Kune Do, and in the area. It is New York Martial Arts Academy, in Little Neck, NY. The owner is Sifu Dino Orfanos, a broadly experienced martial artist, who is also very wise, but amicable and funny. Students are only turned away if it seems they will take the fruits of the arts and use them for unsavory purposes. Sifu Dino also offers seminars, including Ted Wong, whose seminars I guarantee will leave you much better off at doing something before he goes. If anyone has any other questions about what I do or the school I'm very proud to have attended, and hope to return to as soon as possible, you can hit me up on AIM, I'm usually very bored and pleased to talk to just about anybody.

[wayofthedragon]

I coppied this from the styles section of the magazine

"JEET KUNE DO meaning 'way of the intercepting fist'

Jeet Kune Do was developed by the late Bruce Lee and is not a style as such but more a philosophy. Jeet Kune Do practitioners learn to absorb what is useful and reject what is useless. There are no regimented lessons taught in J.K.D. instead the instructors main aim is to show the student the paths they can take to developing their own style.

Advanced practitioners are encouraged to study many styles and take from them what they feel will be of use to them."

[Tireces]

And I've absorbed what is useful and rejected what I found useless. But part of the reason for training is to teach people to develop a good judgment of what IS useful or useless, and anything inbetween. One is not born knowing the absolute best way to do something, even something that is unique to oneself as fighting is. Students should only be encouraged to incorporate new things that occupy a position that previously wasnt, or replace whatever was in that position before (this would be why every JKD school has to look into other arts to cover weapons and grappling). Redundancy in one's repertoire just means more tools to divide your time amongst sharpening, which is not JKD at all.

[DeeTee]

I haven't seen much mention of Jun Fan yet. There's a lot of talk about Kali, Wing Chun, BJJ, etc etc, but at the very core of JKD is Jun Fan Gung Fu. As I understood, this was the foundation upon which all else was / is built. Having been out of that side of things for quite a while now, could someone tell me if it has been replaced, reduced or simply made redundant today? Are there any teachers out there who teach the full Jun Fan curriculum?

[LS]

there are a good # of people still teaching the jun fan curriculum. Are you trying to find something Dee Tee? But as for the "original" material being replaced, in some schools yes , but like i said just earlier there are a good deal of people left that still teach the core of JKD.

In response, I have no JKD. I may practice JKD, it has a structure, but as for my personal expression of it, I have yet to really discover it, heck it might take my entire life to figure that one out.

As Bruce used to say what have you really mastered?

[Len]

Guro Dan Inosanto teaches Jun Fan Gung Fu. This art has fixed techniques, specific stance, etc. It is the foundation of JKD. This gives you the tools so when you learn what your particular JKD is, you have these tools as a base. JKD is freedom but there are certain strategies that are unique to JKD. Everyone's got a different opinion of what JKD is. Here is mine:

1. Learn and master Jun Fan Gung Fu
2. Learn the principles and strategies of JKD which are particularly:

a. Bai-jong stance
b. longest weapon to closest target
c. five ways of attack - Single Direct Attack (SDA), Attack by Combination
(ADB), Hand Immobilization Attack (HIA), Progressive Indirect Attack
(PIA), Attack by Drawing (ABD).
d. Footwork (all done with advancing and retreating or right and left leads)-
Step and Slide, Slide and Step, Push Shuffle, Triangle Step,
Curve Step, Pendelum, Steal a Step, Side Step, Step Through
e. The concept of interception (the name Jeet Kune Do was based off of
this strategy).
f. Boxing punches that also includes vertical ones as well as the traditional
horizontal ones.
g. closing the gap theory
h. straight blast (battle punch of JKD)
i. Shorest distance between two points is a straight line
j. eliminate wasteful moves
k. centerline theory - going off centerline for only a moment just to get
back on centerline if need be
l. learning distancing, timing, and broken rythm
m. eye jab (bil-jee)
n. sparring (all out with protective gear) to develop a sense of realism
o. finding the right technique, at the right time, in the right environment
instantantaneously that affords the most amount of damage, done
under the least amount of time and movement (simplicity) This is where
other arts can be incorporated.
p. four ranges of combat: kicking, punching, trapping, and grappling


After all this, research other arts, and absorb what is useful, discard what is useless, and add what is essentially your own. If whatever technique from a certain art you choose to use fits the practical and simple strategies noted above, then that's where the freedom to use techniques from other arts not known or used by Bruce Lee can come in handy.

[Ad McG]

Someone finally bothered to make a decent list :eek: :D :eek:

[Stxsas]

In all reality you cant call it JKD, becaue we are being taught very specific styles. If you noticed, all JKD schools utilize the Pak Sao from wing chun. Thia roundhouse from Muey Thia And the exact same entry techniques to close the gap to your opponent.

Sure in the begining of someones martial art study of JKD you need to give a person some tools. How can a man that dont know anything about punching, punch effectively? :confused: You have to show him the right way to punch first.
You have to give him the tools before he can decide himself that they are useful or not.
Yeah sure there are schools out there that say they are teaching JKD but are infact using that as a marketing tool and not sticking to the right Principles (we all know this).

[Yukimushu]

Does it really matter if what your learning can technically be Jeet Kune Do? At the end of the day, as long as your learning to win the fight, does it really matter?

[LS]

JKD is well, JKD. Jiu Jutsu is , well Jiu Jitsu. Judo is well, Judo. Kali is not JKD, JKD is not well, Kali. BJJ, is not well, JJJ. JKD is comprised of : strong side forward, economy of motion, longest weapon to nearest target, influences from wc, fencing, and boxing; its focus is on street defense, it has a stance called the on guard position (there's a certain way to do this; but, it's still not a fixed position) , footwork, punches, kicks, traps, and joint locks (all have a way to do this, a structure). This goes for about every style , although yes some common threads do exist. It wouldn't be right of me to call a JJ tool a JKD tool and vice versa.

[Mawa]

I totally agree!!

[elitecombatives]

A couple of years ago I met an instructor in Kajukempo, kali, BJJ, JKD...etc. I was talking to him and we were discussing the arts we train in. He mentioned that his school bases their JKD off of Kajukempo.
My school in wich I train at bases JKD off of Muey Thia with grappling and weapons mixed in along with Wing Chun.

When I come accross schools like this, I wonder what is REALLY being taught. Is it someones personel style based off of JKD concepts and theories. In all reality you cant call it JKD, becaue we are being taught very specific styles. If you noticed, all JKD schools utilize the Pak Sao from wing chun. Thia roundhouse from Muey Thia And the exact same entry techniques to close the gap to your opponent.
I know that Guru Dan Inasanto has over 40 different styles that he uses techniques from in his school when he teaches JKD. But is it actual JKD concepts or his personel blend of the arts that he is teaching.
Dont get me wrong, I know the basics are needed in every style before one can go further But I dont see much originality when it comes to teaching JKD. From what I seen most techniques are the same. It seems that what we were supposed to do was "free your mind" but what we did was cloud our own vision and became robots again. All said was just my opinion based off my experience, not ment to offend anybody.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Questioning what your taught and understanding what you are investing your time and life to IS important and you can/should question its worth, validity etc. At minimum, know what your really doing. It is just my opinion but JKD is JKD. There can not be something called JKD 'off Jiu-Jitsu' or JKD off Kajukempo". Jiu-Jitsu is Jiu-Jitsu, Kajukempo is Kajukempo, Silat is Silat....and we all get the picture. No disrespect but calling something JKD just because you use the philosophy or some principles in JKD is wrong. Just call your art for what it is but do not call it JKD. AT minimum, call it the studies of JKD Concepts. Teachers who teach the blend of FMA, Silat, BJJ etc. using JKD principles are teaching Mixed martial arts but call it (their) JKD. This is call the JKD concepts branch which simply means the study of martial arts using the principles in JKD (or what we call the training methods taught by Bruce Lee before the time of his passing) Nothing wrong with any branch...to each their own and good luck training!

[LS]

you know elite, I really respect your mind and how you see things. Many people are too afraid to let go of JKD and cling to it even though they do nothing that resembles it.

[medi]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Questioning what your taught and understanding what you are investing your time and life to IS important and you can/should question its worth, validity etc. At minimum, know what your really doing. It is just my opinion but JKD is JKD. There can not be something called JKD 'off Jiu-Jitsu' or JKD off Kajukempo". Jiu-Jitsu is Jiu-Jitsu, Kajukempo is Kajukempo, Silat is Silat....and we all get the picture. No disrespect but calling something JKD just because you use the philosophy or some principles in JKD is wrong. Just call your art for what it is but do not call it JKD. AT minimum, call it the studies of JKD Concepts. Teachers who teach the blend of FMA, Silat, BJJ etc. using JKD principles are teaching Mixed martial arts but call it (their) JKD. This is call the JKD concepts branch which simply means the study of martial arts using the principles in JKD (or what we call the training methods taught by Bruce Lee before the time of his passing) Nothing wrong with any branch...to each their own and good luck training!

But if you're referring to "JKD Concepts" (The Dan Inosanto version) rather than "JKD concepts" (generic), Dan still teaches the full Jun Fan JKD curriculum, (by which I mean everything that Bruce Lee established in his style) as the JKD core.

What you are saying is that because he doesn't stop at that point he's no longer doing JKD. That doesn't make sense.

Or do you consider that Dan's JKD Concepts, with 'real' JKD as the core, does actually 'count' as JKD?

[Footsolja]

Has anyone done light contact or semi before? Kickboxing

[medi]

Has anyone done light contact or semi before? Kickboxing

I think that's a subject for a new thread Footsolja. Welcome to MAP.

[elitecombatives]

But if you're referring to "JKD Concepts" (The Dan Inosanto version) rather than "JKD concepts" (generic), Dan still teaches the full Jun Fan JKD curriculum, (by which I mean everything that Bruce Lee established in his style) as the JKD core.

What you are saying is that because he doesn't stop at that point he's no longer doing JKD. That doesn't make sense.

Or do you consider that Dan's JKD Concepts, with 'real' JKD as the core, does actually 'count' as JKD?

Hi Medi,
Just to set the record straight, my thoughts really don't matter as it will never dent the fabric of the terrible politics within JKD and take it away. I will actually stop writing in regards to this after this post. BUT to reply to your response to my personal thoughts on JKD and Concepts Branch, here it goes (also note that its not aimed toward you especially if you feel my response is an attack "It Isn't!") >>>
Guro Dan's concepts is a wonderful extension and continued research based on Bruce Lee's work BUT it is not Bruce's work anymore. What the OJKD branch simply does today is preserve and train based on all that Bruce has taught and developed prior his passing. There is nothing wrong with that. JUST like there is nothing wrong with CONCEPTS training and evolution. The point and opinion that I hold is just to have OJKD, Dan's JKDC and other so-called JKDC groups, to stop bickering and leave each branch alone. In the end, does it matter how the OJKD man is training? Dan's Concepts students are training? other concepts based branches are training? the answer is *no* Having thoughts of who is right and wrong is just saying that you have no respect for the founder of JKD. Afterall, it seems like practitioners of all JKD branches believe in one thing...that Bruce Lee is the core of what they do today and changing their lives based on training JKD (Bruce's way) Just be happy you are training any form of JKD under a ligit instructor and grow from that experience versus joining political debates that resemble child hood school yard arguments (I'm better, NO I'm Better, I"M RIGHT, NO YOUR WRONG, I'm Right....) well, that is just my thoughts. To all those who continue to battle to claim what is the true JKD, Good luck training and have fun. Deepest respects to all JKD'rs of all branches.

[medi]

Hi Medi,
Just to set the record straight, my thoughts really don't matter as it will never dent the fabric of the terrible politics within JKD and take it away. I will actually stop writing in regards to this after this post. BUT to reply to your response to my personal thoughts on JKD and Concepts Branch, here it goes (also note that its not aimed toward you especially if you feel my response is an attack "It Isn't!") >>>
Guro Dan's concepts is a wonderful extension and continued research based on Bruce Lee's work BUT it is not Bruce's work anymore. What the OJKD branch simply does today is preserve and train based on all that Bruce has taught and developed prior his passing. There is nothing wrong with that. JUST like there is nothing wrong with CONCEPTS training and evolution. The point and opinion that I hold is just to have OJKD, Dan's JKDC and other so-called JKDC groups, to stop bickering and leave each branch alone. In the end, does it matter how the OJKD man is training? Dan's Concepts students are training? other concepts based branches are training? the answer is *no* Having thoughts of who is right and wrong is just saying that you have no respect for the founder of JKD. Afterall, it seems like practitioners of all JKD branches believe in one thing...that Bruce Lee is the core of what they do today and changing their lives based on training JKD (Bruce's way) Just be happy you are training any form of JKD under a ligit instructor and grow from that experience versus joining political debates that resemble child hood school yard arguments (I'm better, NO I'm Better, I"M RIGHT, NO YOUR WRONG, I'm Right....) well, that is just my thoughts. To all those who continue to battle to claim what is the true JKD, Good luck training and have fun. Deepest respects to all JKD'rs of all branches.


I agree.

[tel]

i use the jun fan jkd as my base.i then have researched wing chun for 5 yrs and kali for 3yrs to improve area's that i am weak on.i do thai boxing when i can for fitness and the skills that the art is known for. i do bjj and csw to improve the stand up and ground fighting. so even tho jfjkd brings alot to the table i improve the skills that are in it,by doing other art that use the same tools.ie wing chun.so i do jun fan,wc,kali, but im improving and working on say footwork, pak,lop,jab,cross,hook,round/hook kick, so really with all the influnaces i am still cutting away the unessentials but aborbing what is useful for me

[Erik Bauer]

My JKD? It is the expression of myself, not just when fighting.
I've learnt a lot of things in the 5 years I passed under my instructor, and some of them are useful also beyond combat.
You see: when you train Pak Sao and sticking hands (we call it Ubad), you are in reality learning to listen your self and the body-energy of your opponent and how to react properly. When you train to react an aggression you usually do it by straining yourself with heavy exercises, pao sparring and then you start combat.
But if you learn to have no limit as a limit, why limit yourself to apply these things just when fighting? Why not use these things you've learned in your all day life? I can tell you that with sticky hands I've learned to listen to all things I touch with my hands (my car when driving, the brush I'm using to paint the walls of my home...) and I also react better to things when tired or strained.
Oh, I know I went a bit philosophical, but JKD is no more than a philosophy.

I'm not telling JKD is not something that helps you fight better, I'm just telling it is a philosophy so it can be applied to every aspect of your life. It is a philosophy and as a philosophy should be taught.

And if you want to know what is MA related JKD for me? Read tel's post above this one, add to it that my dream is to have the money, time and possibility to wander all the MA-Fighting schools all around, learn what I can from them and keep what fits my self. Here you have your answer.

PS: You really can't standardize JKD in an A to Z list of statements and rules, because you're breaking JKD concept: "Be like water, have no form as a form and no limit as a limit".

[Reinbach IV]

You're supposed to create YOUR JKD from what they teach by filtering out the techniques that don't work for you and placing emphasis on the ones that do. The best way is to cross-train in a lot of styles (after you learn the basics of Jun Fan Gung Fu), then move from there. Train, see what works and what doesn't by experience, and create your own JKD. It's about personal revelation and expression.

[tel]

You're supposed to create YOUR JKD from what they teach by filtering out the techniques that don't work for you and placing emphasis on the ones that do. The best way is to cross-train in a lot of styles (after you learn the basics of Jun Fan Gung Fu), then move from there. Train, see what works and what doesn't by experience, and create your own JKD. It's about personal revelation and expression.
true.as long as when you research an art in depth,and understand the art before moving on

[Simplicity]

"Simply Being In All Ways Of Life, Fitting In and To Change With Change, Within The Process"


Peace-Out!
Sifu John McNabney

[jaymdubbs]

This is an interesting excerpt from Jun Fan JKD: the Textbook (p10)

"Let's say a person learns as many different martial arts as possible. He may study Western boxing, wing chun, kali, savate, muay thai, jiu jitsu, and silat. Let's say he takes what works for him from these various styles. Is what he ends up with Jeet Kune Do? Not necessarily. Jkd is more than just an eclectic martial art. It is more than just grabbing techniques from various martial arts. It is more than an accumulation of techniques. There must be a common thread. In fact JKD can be primarily defined as a search for the common thread. There must be a common thread, an analysis, and a concept of what will work for your."

Just a thought......

[tel]

This is an interesting excerpt from Jun Fan JKD: the Textbook (p10)

"Let's say a person learns as many different martial arts as possible. He may study Western boxing, wing chun, kali, savate, muay thai, jiu jitsu, and silat. Let's say he takes what works for him from these various styles. Is what he ends up with Jeet Kune Do? Not necessarily. Jkd is more than just an eclectic martial art. It is more than just grabbing techniques from various martial arts. It is more than an accumulation of techniques. There must be a common thread. In fact JKD can be primarily defined as a search for the common thread. There must be a common thread, an analysis, and a concept of what will work for your."

Just a thought......
agree. the important thing is to get a common thread that links the arts together.using the jkd way to guide you