Jujitsu a good all round martial art?

[pk.]

Im thinking of starting Jujitsu cause if I am correct it uses throws takedowns and locks along with a range of strikes. Wasn't it also origionally created as a way to dissarm an armed enemy?

If this is all correct doesn't that make Jujitsu a very good all round martial art?
What are the negative sides of Jujitsu.

[SoKKlab]

P.K,
I'm describing Japanese systems and not Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu, which concentrates Mostly upon Groundwork and is a sport more than a Martial art, as it has certain rules, although it is a very useful skill in itself.

ju jitsu is a very well rounded system. It is also very pragmatic in its approach and represents alot of good solutions against common 'street' attacks.

Most ju jitsu systems contain locks, throws, strikes, escapes from holds, some groundwork (Non-sport orientated), defence against common weapon assaults etc. Kicks are also employed, but these are often an afterthought in Most Ju jitsu styles and represent a lesser part of the syllabus.

Negative sides in my opinion, are that some of weapons defences, particularly against knives, are impractical and I wouldn't like to rely upon them. Still seeing some vertical X-Blocks in some systems out there....

Some classes are very formal and this to me is a drawback, as it leads to a very po-faced atmosphere. But most Ju jitsu classes have a good balance between formal respect and enjoyment.

They are also usually full of decent people and the classes are generally cheap, because of a certain non-profit ethos at the heart of a lot of Systems. Give it a go, I feel that you'll enjoy it and it will be of much use to you.

[Jim]

Would've liked to add something to SoKKlab's post but I can't, so I won't :D

[pk.]

Lol unlucky Jim, but thanks SoKKlab for the excellent overall review.

So it is Japanese Jujitsu which is most usful on the street?

What would you say was the best system for practical street defence and how does Japanese compare?

[SoKKlab]

There are alot of systems that are street useful. Just that most are inclined towards certain aspects of fighting more than others, mainly striking.

Ju Jitsu, Hapkido, Combat Sombo etc are all-round systems, in that they give you more options to common attacks. Yes they contain many strikes, but they have a lot of throws, holds, locks etc in them as well. This gives you more options depending upon yr circumstance.

Ie someone grabs you-you could just belt them with yr elbow.

But what happens if that's your girlfriend and she's drunk and trying to hurt you? Do you neccessarily smash her face through the back of her head? I'd hope not-hence where locks and holds come in useful. Not a very good example, but I'm sure that you can see what I'm getting at.

I like the pragmatic approach that Ju Jitsu has to most common Assaults, Ie a Grab, A haymaker, A choke etc.

I just feel that it represents a good set of useful skills for use under difficult circumstances and that those skills can be learnt quickly by someone who doesn't have to be a superhuman Martial artist in order to make it work.

[pk.]

Yeah I totally understand your point of view. Afterall if you were attacked on the street and as a means of defence you elbowed them hard in the face, because that is what you trained in, strikes. You could very well end up being prosecuted yourself depending on your force and situation.

The law seems to have a sort of gray area when it comes to using resonable force. But Hapkido and Jujitsu seem to give more ways of effective defence. To me its seemed that in Karate the main defence is attack. Striking someone was the only way to imobilize them.

Thanks for your help SoKKlab I am seriously considering Jujistsu, now its just finding somewhere near me. The closest I can find is Judo, and im not sure that they offer adult classes!!

[SoKKlab]

You're welcome PK.

I'm sure that you'll find plenty of clubs in Manchester.
The Lowlands Ju Jitsu Fed are up around the Lancashire
area. Also i'm sure that there is the R.O.S.S in Manchester as well (Russian Martial Arts-C Sombo maybe?).

If you get stuck, go in to town to that Martial arts shop, Chung Yee is it?, at the top of Portland street (Just up a bit from Piccadilly Gardens), Central Manchester, they've got a good message board with loads of details of classes on it.

Good Luck.

[Jim]

PK, you REALLY should see how you go with getting in a JKD class with Dave (Yoda) Green. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

[AikiSamurai]

what's a good site to look for info on traditional Jujitsu? I'm kinda curious

[pk.]

Jim, is it Wigan that YODA holds his classes?

[Jim]

Yep, pk. Why'd you ask me? Just send him a PM...

AS, I haven't found one yet that's not politically orientated. www.judoinfo.com is good for Judo-related stuff, but I've yet to find one for JiuJitsu. Let me know if you do.

[pk.]

Thanks for that link, its a great source. It must have listings for every Judo club in the world!!

I dont know if there is a site that useful as far as jujitsu is concerned. Anyone know of such a resource?

[AikiSamurai]

Originally posted by pk.
I dont know if there is a site that useful as far as jujitsu is concerned. Anyone know of such a resource?

I wanna know too...

[Jim]

Hmmm, sounds like there's a need out there. Now if only we could find someone willing to do it (that's not me raising my hand, you know!).

[pk.]

Yeah, just some people with the knowledge should give it a go, the site itself doesnt have to be a work of art!

[smee193]

just reading ya posts fellas!

I live in Dagenham and there is a Gracie ju jitsu shop/club just up the road.

you have stirred my interest in it! ( swines ) wife will kill me now!

As you may know i have recently taken up Ishinryu karate which i really do enjoy but I have often thought that it is a bit brutal!
all well and good if you are attacked outside one good strike to the nose and your away ( probably nicked too ) but like you said what if its your girl or wife and your having a domestic she gets mad goes to whack you one and you break her nose! simply because its been ingrained into you! oooeeerr.

or worse one of your kids is playing with you and you just lose control cos you are used to Kumite style workouts and belt them one! christ it gets worse!

i might go and have a look see at this club!

also i noticed you said gracie style was sport orientated does that mean as an art it is innefectual?


Mark

[thiaboxr2]

The art is quite effective for defense. but like all arts it does'nt have all the answers. Its a great way to defend yourself against 1 person on the ground, maybe 2. But in groups of 3 or more, you will be on the recieving end of a beating.

Its limited on knife defenses. Punches and kicks are kept to a minimum. Elbows and knees are limited. The art operates on the principle that most fights end up on the ground. That is usually where your first lesson in class will start, on the ground.

I've been training in BJJ for 6 months and have not done any standing action, but i'm quite competent on the ground now. I can grapple for an hour without anyone tapping. But thats where it ends.

My grappling is complimented with Muey Thia and Lameco Eskrima.

BJJ is also great if you plan on competing. Most grappling competitions feature BJJ.

[smee193]

not sure i like the sound of ground work!

all well and good if on a mat in the dojo or maybe on the grass outside but what happens if your in a carpark? invariably covered in glass!
i dont fancy rolling around in glass shards!

from looking on the web it would seem traditional ju jitsu may be more my style!

Thanks for the reply.
Mark

[SoKKlab]

Smee,
Sport-Orientated doesn't neccessarily mean ineffective.
NHB competition is Sport, but it is a very effective set of skills, just that it has rules. Most of the Techniques and Training methods are a definite bonus to your skill level and can work very well in any given situation.

IMO BJJ is a good Ground Fighting system that can add enormously to your arsenal, but some of its techniques have to be adapted if you had to use them in a 'street' situation.

Example, a friend of mine (No it wasn't me) was attacked by a Man that he had an on-going situation with. They fell over with the guy on top of him wailing away with punches, my friend gets him in a basic triangle, the other guy struggles as my friend is applying the squeeze and the Man starts punching my friend in the nuts (Hard enough for him to loosen his grip).

The guy then grabs Friends leg and hoists him sufficiently upwards and kicks my friend in the back of the head, sharpish. There wasn't that much difference in size between them and my friend had been studying BJJ for a year and a half and is good at it (he is still studying). The other guy had no Martial arts experience whatsoever, but had Instinct on his side.

Friend was groggy but managed to get back to his feet and out of there via a few punches, with just sore nuts and bit of head trauma.

That's not saying that BJJ techniques don't work, just that you have be careful applying any 'Clean' dojo techniques in a 'Street' situation, because the other guy is not playing by any rules.

If anybody is interested in what I am on about here, I suggest a book such as Kevin O'Hagan's 'Grappling with Reality' which details very well the differences/ realities between NHB Competition Grappling and 'Real Street application of Grappling'.

My aim in Ground fighting is to get up again and out of the situation as soon as possible and not to stay on the ground and struggle for position, even if it just the one guy.

I can't be 100 percent sure that I can 'Finish' a fight on the deck, given the amount of random factors that a Real Confrontation contains, even if it's 'Just' one guy. So I look at the situation from a different perspective.

Traditional Ju Jitsu (not BJJ) and many other arts that have the same range of technique/ attitude give you a wider field of options than a purely striking-orientated art or a purely Grappling art, but are as equally brutal in their Intent, just that they cast their net wider and as everything, the way you train is a very important factor as much as what you train in.

[smee193]

excellent advice sokklab many thanks!

i have found another school in the same place as i train for Karate that does combat ju jitsu' i am presuming ( could be very very wrong ) that this is more of a traditional style of ju jitsu!

it is on tonight 8-9:30 so i am going to go and have a look.

wish me luck!

if there is anyone on here that knows of this club at the wood lane sport centre Dagenham that could give me some idea of what to expect that would be great...

Mark

[SoKKlab]

Good luck Mark

[smee193]

well i went!
and oh boy wow!

its combat jujitsu and it culminates kickboxing and jujitsu into one package! so i get all the kicks and blocks i like and all the Aikido/jujitsu/judo throws i like! it just couldnt be better!

the sensei was a really nice bloke and was really helpful and informative! he says he has been doing this for thirty years and used to train doormen and bodyguards!

he seemed really genuine!

Im going again on wednesday i cant wait niether can my Daughter!

Thanks again for all the advice!

Mark

[Solane]

Chung Yee's in manchester shut down years ago as far as I was aware it was closer to the Oxford Road end of Portland Street. It was a brilliant shop if its reopened its well worth a look.

[SoKKlab]

Chung Yee Martial Arts shop is beneath the place that Karl Tanswell (Top end of Portland Street) teaches at, or it was last year when I went there and paid their ground rent for a year with my purchase of Martial swag.

Glad you enjoyed the Combat Ju Jitsu, Mark.

[Solane]

Cool I will check them out again.
As far as I was aware they had shut up and sold the shop at the Oxford Road end about 8 years ago and hadn't reopened as there were no signs for where they had moved to. I havent been past in years. I Will definatley be on a hunt for them this weekend. Drool weapons, books = no money. :)

[Candito]

*Throws punch*
You parry the punch with one hand in a slap motion and grab it with other, jump up,.. swing both yer legs over his head and bring him to ground,

Suplex the punk at the same time as doing a figure 4 arm bar
and see what happens...


yes.. BJJ is an Excellent effective and friggin painfull thing to cop.. and train in..
Be ready for many weeks of saw pecs, legs, feet and abs when you first start..

Be also ready for street confidence like you have never felt it before :)