UIUC Quad Day Demo [Archive] - Martial Arts Planet

Wolf

27-Aug-2005, 02:02 PM

No you really shouldnt
Generally the people in this particular forum are good posters who abide by the ToS. They don't troll. They don't bash people or styles. That's one of the reasons I like associating with the people in this forum besides that we all share a common style. Because of that, I won't stand for someone coming into our forum and bashing a person in it or something they've posted. PPF!, if you've got a constructive criticism fine, state what you want and get on with it. To make a comment like that is just trying to antagonize someone.

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Wolf

27-Aug-2005, 02:20 PM

I thought for the most part it was a pretty solid demo. Hope you guys get some good new members.

JSun

27-Aug-2005, 06:58 PM

I thought for the most part it was a pretty solid demo. Hope you guys get some good new members.

I agree. It must be nice to be able to demo outside this time of year. It's like 102 degrees in Texas right now.

No you really shouldnt:)

Too bad this kid is so steeped in arrogance he can't appreciate the amount of time and effort these people put into their performance. :bang: The demo must have made an impression on some people. I saw more than a few spectators taking the time to watch it.

Prophet

27-Aug-2005, 08:46 PM

The following comments are purely constructive criticism.

Now, I do not know how long you have been training, and practicing this demo for but there was a few things I noticed.

The 1st thing I noticed was the lack of speed in techniques. Quite frequently the techniques did not flow, and there were pauses. Also, it looked like there was minimal effort in showing that the moves were forceful. The attacks were slow, and wouldnt hurt a fly.

I understand that this is a demo, and you dont want to hurt each other. But I think it would have been much better had you trained full speed, but exersised control and timing to stop before connection.

The slowness kind of made me chuckle.

Again, I can not know how long and how much effort you put into this, so I cerntainly can not say much.

The next major thing I noticed is a little more harsh. While watching this, I noticed that the combonation of my 1st point, coupled with the fact that the people demonstrating getting hit, or taking the falls were completly ready to just... fall. As I was watching I could not help but wonder if you guys acctually trained against live apponents? I certainly hope you do, but it doesnt look like it.

I couldnt help but think, that because your speed, timing, and control were (thumbs down) that your techniques and attacks would be of little use in a fight.

My two cents.

See PPF, thats how its done :p :D

Wolf

27-Aug-2005, 11:05 PM

Prophet, I appreciate your post. That's definitly what I mean by constructive criticism. I can say from having met and trained with members of that club that they do train with live opponents, at least I'm pretty certain they do. For demo purposes, at leat at my club, we're taught to exagerate the falls and aid the technique performer. We also do two types of technique training, at my club. One is strictly to for the performer of the technique. This involves fully or mostly resisting (depending on the level of the student) so that they understand how to make a technique work. Other times techniques are as much for the opponent as the student performing. This is to practice our falls. Like a said before. For demo purposes though most of us are taught to sort of "help things along."

AZeitung

28-Aug-2005, 08:00 AM

First of all, we put the demo together in two practices.

Second of all, at least the guy that I was doing techniques on, I *know* wouldn't be happy taking a fall on the hard ground there (the grass is mostly dead, and the dirt was pretty hard), so I let him down pretty easy on the two techniques I did.

But anyway, the techniques we showed in the techniques portion were straight, unmodified from the techniques sets. There's not much point in demonstrating a technique from a technique set if it doesn't work, now is there? The fact is, you can't just walk up to somebody and do ki bohn soo 3 them at any time you want, and you're kidding yourself if you think you should be able to.

I've O-goshied people a couple of times in randori in Judo, and let me say, it's not a whole lot different than KBS 14 - just switch up the grip a little bit. However, in practice, I've never felt anyone give me more resistance than we had when doing our techniques in the demo. Sure, we didn't try to stop the techniques from working, but we didn't go out of the way to jump over eachother's shoulders, either.

baubin2

28-Aug-2005, 08:16 AM

No you really shouldnt:)
I know that this has already been said, but I just saw this message and wanted to say that I am REALLY annoyed about it. PPF, if you're just going to come around our forum to criticize our schools and MA without offering any reasons for your negative opinion, then please just leave.

davefly76

28-Aug-2005, 10:58 AM

that was pretty good, some bits were better than others. personally i woulld have left the breaking untill the end as that is usually what the general public like seeing, forms are nice but not very exciting to look at if you don't know about martial arts.

jung guhm hyung and bong dae ryh hyung looked good but the lady doing a self defence routine should have put some ki ahp into it to grab the spectators attention.

which one are you?

:)

baubin2

28-Aug-2005, 04:15 PM

red headed blue belt on the right end when doing techniques. And that first form was Ki Cho Hyung, not Joong Geup Hyung

CrowZer0

28-Aug-2005, 06:44 PM

I agree with Prophet says what I saw on that video was Mcdojo mockery of Martial Arts, if people like you thought it was "good" you don't know what good is. Kswpaul HAHA your a funny guy!

davefly76

28-Aug-2005, 07:03 PM

red headed blue belt on the right end when doing techniques. And that first form was Ki Cho Hyung, not Joong Geup Hyung

i know, i didn't mention joong geup hyung. i said jung guhm hyung, straight sword form.

:)

davefly76

28-Aug-2005, 07:14 PM

I agree with Prophet says what I saw on that video was Mcdojo mockery of Martial Arts, if people like you thought it was "good" you don't know what good is. Kswpaul HAHA your a funny guy!

it certainly wasn't the best demo i've seen but it was ok. it looked like it was rushed and the students didn't seem to put alot of effort into making it look good. that may come down to nerves if it was some of the students' first demo but i was a bit disapointed in the standard of the brown belts, especially the guy trying to break with a downward chop. i think he needs to practice his ki cho jah ki and focus a bit more otherwise he could be there all day trying to break the way he did.

what style and rank do you train in PPF?

:)

AZeitung

28-Aug-2005, 07:16 PM

which one are you?

:)

If anyone's interested, I was the brown belt between the black belt and the Indian during board breaking.

AZeitung

28-Aug-2005, 07:29 PM

but i was a bit disapointed in the standard of the brown belts, especially the guy trying to break with a downward chop. i think he needs to practice his ki cho jah ki and focus a bit more otherwise he could be there all day trying to break the way he did.

The guy who did the downward chop is actually a *lot* better than the brown belt that I did techniques on and the one that did the side kick (who also didn't break the board). But as for the guy you mentioned - I have no idea why he couldn't break the board, but I doubt ki cho jah ki had anything to do with it. BTW, he also takes taiji (although not at the same place I do - I study under Yang, and he's studying under one of his students, who teaches a bit cheaper on campus), so I'm fairly confident that he wouldn't be missing anything related to "ki" anyway.

(BTW, incase I wasn't clear in my last post, I was the guy who actually *broke* the board, with a palm strike - which is ridiculously easy).

davefly76

28-Aug-2005, 07:37 PM

CrowZer0

28-Aug-2005, 07:39 PM

it certainly wasn't the best demo i've seen but it was ok. it looked like it was rushed and the students didn't seem to put alot of effort into making it look good. that may come down to nerves if it was some of the students' first demo but i was a bit disapointed in the standard of the brown belts, especially the guy trying to break with a downward chop. i think he needs to practice his ki cho jah ki and focus a bit more otherwise he could be there all day trying to break the way he did.

what style and rank do you train in PPF?

:)

I have a profile I have been training since I was 4, I am 2nd dan in ITF tkd but I quit that ew yhears back I have been studying a style of Kung Fu which holds its direct lineage to Nam Pai Chuan and Hung Gar, I know brown belts even students of around 2 years who could perform better than what I saw on the video, their was no power no speed technique was poor, they called that a front kick? A side kick? A horse stance? What the hell.

CrowZer0

28-Aug-2005, 07:43 PM

I know that this has already been said, but I just saw this message and wanted to say that I am REALLY annoyed about it. PPF, if you're just going to come around our forum to criticize our schools and MA without offering any reasons for your negative opinion, then please just leave.

I am not here to criticise a school, there was a video posted, I downloaded it watched it and I thought it was pathetic as did many others I showed it to, I hold no prejudice against any school or style, but I know techniques, and what I saw was them performed incorectly lacking power, speed, precision, and technique, if you are an ameteur who feels offended at some criticism then I have no time for you, as for me leaving it is for me to decide if and when I do so.

AZeitung

28-Aug-2005, 07:43 PM

i don't question his skill in other area's. obviously you know him a lot better than i do but on that particular technique i don't think he excelled himself. i would expect him to do that a lot better in a grading, especially if i was grading him.

:)

We actually don't do board breaking at our school - we just kind of throw it in our demos because everybody sort of expects it. I worked with the rebreakables a bit last year (which are harder to break than the real thing - even the blue ones), and I don't really feel that there's a whole lot worthwhile in the practice anyway.

AZeitung

28-Aug-2005, 07:45 PM

I have a profile I have been training since I was 4, I am 2nd dan in ITF tkd but I quit that ew yhears back I have been studying a style of Kung Fu which holds its direct lineage to Nam Pai Chuan and Hung Gar, I know brown belts even students of around 2 years who could perform better than what I saw on the video, their was no power no speed technique was poor, they called that a front kick? A side kick? A horse stance? What the hell.

Actually, the brown belts at our club have been doing it for two years - some for three (the ones with stripes, but you can't see that on the video).

Seriously, though, I don't know what you thought of my techqniques, but I'm pretty decent on the mat. I beat a few Judo green belts under Judo rules at my second class (and lost to two others - but I think I still could have won if I had been allowed to use all of my locking/throwing techqniques and chokes, or if the 30 second pin rule wasn't in effect). The techqniques may not have looked great there, but ultimately, that's not really what counts.

I actually thought the brownbelts (including myself) looked pretty good doing the techniques, though. I purposely let down my partner slowly and pulled him up at the end because I know he has a low tollerance for pain - a lot of us actually thought he was going to drop out last year (he's a year ahead of me) - and the ground was *really* hard that day - but aside from that, I thought it was ok.

CrowZer0

28-Aug-2005, 07:46 PM

Actually, the brown belts at our club have been doing it for two years - some for three (the ones with stripes, but you can't see that on the video).

We don't have brown belts we have 4, and to get to the 2nd belt it would take you atleast 5 or 6 years. Maybe our standards are just higher?

CrowZer0

28-Aug-2005, 07:52 PM

See PPF, thats how its done :p :D

Lol dude I have neither the time nor the incarnation to deal with that sort of message, all they need to know is that I thought it was pathetic, as for reasons why they should b clever enough to figure out themselves and once they are enlightened post somthing which is more impressive or even realistic.

AZeitung

28-Aug-2005, 07:53 PM

AZeitung

28-Aug-2005, 07:56 PM

Lol dude I have neither the time nor the incarnation to deal with that sort of message, all they need to know is that I thought it was pathetic, as for reasons why they should b clever enough to figure out themselves and once they are enlightened post somthing which is more impressive or even realistic.

Nobody really set out to impress you, believe it or not. If Baubin wants to post a Kuk Sool video to the Kuk Sool form, that's her business. We don't need your blatant insults.

CrowZer0

28-Aug-2005, 07:58 PM

Maybe - if your trying to say that your second belt is about the equvilant training time of our black belt, then that's what it is. It's hard to judge what belt in one style equals what in another.

All I can say, is I train a lot, and I train hard - and I'll bet I could beat a lot of your guys who have been doing it for five years (not the Muay Thai ones, though :) ). See the edits to my above post.

I seriously doub you could beat anyone at my school who has been training for 2 years, I don't care if it wasn't posted to impress me nor did I say it was, the fact of the matter is that it didn't that's the point I made and thats what I said. Beat someone with 5 years experience in my kung fu school but you doubt you can handle muay thai? Don't be silly.

davefly76

28-Aug-2005, 08:01 PM

We don't have brown belts we have 4, and to get to the 2nd belt it would take you atleast 5 or 6 years. Maybe our standards are just higher?

just because it takes longer to reach the second belt doesn't mean that you have higher standards. it just means you have a different ranking system.

what does your style incorporate? if it is in the main kicking and hand strikes then a student of two years training would be better than a kuk sool brown belt because the kuk sool student has more to learn and practice other than kicking and punching.

:)

AZeitung

28-Aug-2005, 08:02 PM

I seriously doub you could beat anyone at my school who has been training for 2 years, I don't care if it wasn't posted to impress me nor did I say it was, the fact of the matter is that it didn't that's the point I made and thats what I said. Beat someone with 5 years experience in my kung fu school but you doubt you can handle muay thai? Don't be silly.
I say that because in the Karate clubs I've visited and the Judo clubs I've visited, I've been able to beat people with more experience than me. I practice alot of grappling and semi-contact sparring, which really has nothing to do with the technique sets. Muay Thai guys do a lot of full contact with head shots, which I'm not used to (five years of it, I'd imagine would make you a hell of a striker). I doubt I'd be that great in such an environment right now, although I'm trying to work on it, which is why I joined the MMA club here at my school. From the very brief things I've seen of Wing Chun, I haven't been all that impressed.

CrowZer0

28-Aug-2005, 08:11 PM

just because it takes longer to reach the second belt doesn't mean that you have higher standards. it just means you have a different ranking system.

what does your style incorporate? if it is in the main kicking and hand strikes then a student of two years training would be better than a kuk sool brown belt because the kuk sool student has more to learn and practice other than kicking and punching.

:)

My style incorporates, kicks punches, animal fists, endurance training, fitess taining, chi gung, full contact sparring, body conditioning, stretching, Animal fist include, Dragon, Tiger, Leopard, Monkey, Crane, Snake. We have ex Wado Ryu, Judo, other Kung Fu style seniors who left their previous clubs to ours. We have very strict rules on technique, From our stances, our sparring, appliction and our individual moves, for example, our first form gading involvs knowing 2 of the forms, Holding a horse stance for a minimum of 5 minutes without raising, we dont allow feet to be pointed outwards in our techniques, we build our students up in a very strict ay before they are allowed to grade, even then i takes one to three gradings to pass a test:)

CrowZer0

28-Aug-2005, 08:12 PM

I say that because in the Karate clubs I've visited and the Judo clubs I've visited, I've been able to beat people with more experience than me. I practice alot of grappling and semi-contact sparring, which really has nothing to do with the technique sets. Muay Thai guys do a lot of full contact with head shots, which I'm not used to (five years of it, I'd imagine would make you a hell of a striker). I doubt I'd be that great in such an environment right now, although I'm trying to work on it, which is why I joined the MMA club here at my school. From the very brief things I've seen of Wing Chun, I haven't been all that impressed.

You can go to all the Karate and Judo clubs you want I have done the same, don't get too cocky in thinking you can handle anyone from our club.

BB sage

28-Aug-2005, 08:13 PM

Is Sietz still the instructor at UIUC? I didn't see him in the video posted. From what I recall, he was capable of setting up decent demos.

AZeitung

28-Aug-2005, 08:17 PM

Seitz got married and got a job in Chicago last year.

And PFFT!, don't get too cocky yourself. After reading the description of your school, it sounds pretty decent, but don't underestimate some of the places I train either.

baubin2

28-Aug-2005, 08:24 PM

I agree with Prophet says what I saw on that video was Mcdojo mockery of Martial Arts, if people like you thought it was "good" you don't know what good is. Kswpaul HAHA your a funny guy!
Okay, that's it. I'm calling a mod. Constructive criticism such as prophet posted is one thing. It's not fun to listen to, but it's meant to help and not insult and you take it in the spirit that it is given. Insults, taunting, and mockery are another, and do not have to be stood for.

baubin2

28-Aug-2005, 08:32 PM

Wow, that was a lot of posts to spring up in the five minutes I spent posting that one post. PPF, the only reason I posted that demo was because a lot of the KSW people on the forum seem to be looking for examples of kuk sool they can view. I figured okay, the demo's online, why not give them something to see. I wasn't so much looking for criticism as sharing an example of my school, but even so, I don't mind it if I receive some. I know that under the circumstances, it's inevitable. If you want to post why you thought our demo stank though, then also post your reasoning. Putting your logic and constructive criticism down as well as your opinion is what separates a decent guy who's trying to help from a jerk who just wants to mock others for the sake of it.

BTW, you may have noticed that others have posted negative comments, but that I haven't gotten annoyed with them. There's a reason we're all mad at you, it's not just because we're all "amateurs who feel offended at some criticism".

davefly76

28-Aug-2005, 09:08 PM

My style incorporates, kicks punches, animal fists, endurance training, fitess taining, chi gung, full contact sparring, body conditioning, stretching, Animal fist include, Dragon, Tiger, Leopard, Monkey, Crane, Snake. We have ex Wado Ryu, Judo, other Kung Fu style seniors who left their previous clubs to ours. We have very strict rules on technique, From our stances, our sparring, appliction and our individual moves, for example, our first form gading involvs knowing 2 of the forms, Holding a horse stance for a minimum of 5 minutes without raising, we dont allow feet to be pointed outwards in our techniques, we build our students up in a very strict ay before they are allowed to grade, even then i takes one to three gradings to pass a test:)

please don't read this as a "kuk sool is better than your style because..." because it isn't.

kuk sool incorporates, kicks and advanced kicking, punches, palm strikes, chops, backfists, knifehand, single knuckle/digit strikes, elbow strikes, animal hand strikes(praying mantis/tiger claw etc), blocking, sparring, pressure point and joint locking techniques, endurance and fitness training, stretching and body conditioning, break falls, acrobatics, meditation, acupuncture and accupressure and weapons, sword and long staff in the main but also short sticks, dool bong (nunchaku) fan, spear, cane and rope plus others.

as you can see there is a massive amount to learn. not all of this is taught in the first 3 or so years but the majority of it is.

i have heard many times from other styles that our "beginners" form, ki cho hyung is one of the most involving forms to learn as a white belt.

:)

AZeitung

28-Aug-2005, 09:13 PM

I would say the only things that aren't covered in the first three years are acupressure (although pressure points are), fan, spear, cane, and rope. Our school doesn't focus too much on acrobatics either, though.

You probably couldn't see it in the clip, but I was using the yuhl gyul pressure point on the wrist, as well as one on the eble during Ki Bohn Soo 3. My partner's wrist was pretty sore afterwords.

CrowZer0

28-Aug-2005, 11:53 PM

please don't read this as a "kuk sool is better than your style because..." because it isn't.

kuk sool incorporates, kicks and advanced kicking, punches, palm strikes, chops, backfists, knifehand, single knuckle/digit strikes, elbow strikes, animal hand strikes(praying mantis/tiger claw etc), blocking, sparring, pressure point and joint locking techniques, endurance and fitness training, stretching and body conditioning, break falls, acrobatics, meditation, acupuncture and accupressure and weapons, sword and long staff in the main but also short sticks, dool bong (nunchaku) fan, spear, cane and rope plus others.

as you can see there is a massive amount to learn. not all of this is taught in the first 3 or so years but the majority of it is.

i have heard many times from other styles that our "beginners" form, ki cho hyung is one of the most involving forms to learn as a white belt.

:)

Sounds like fun Like I said, I wasn' dissing your school or style, I just feel that video is a mockery to martial arts, and I am sick and tired of witnessing low quality crap all over the place giving a bad name to martial arts, kung fu and tma in more genereal, my school do everything you mentioned other than the chuks, we don't do that.

Wolf

29-Aug-2005, 12:06 AM

well you're intitled to your opinion. however the way you're going about it is by attacking those involved. that, once again, is against ToS.

CrowZer0

29-Aug-2005, 12:10 AM

Kswpaul, my initial post was saying it as a funny video, then I said it wasn't a comliment, then you said :

"Generally the people in this particular forum are good posters who abide by the ToS. They don't troll. They don't bash people or styles. That's one of the reasons I like associating with the people in this forum besides that we all share a common style. Because of that, I won't stand for someone coming into our forum and bashing a person in it or something they've posted. PPF!, if you've got a constructive criticism fine, state what you want and get on with it. To make a comment like that is just trying to antagonize someone."

I didn't bash anyone, I didn't antagonize anyone, I merely stated it was funny, then I stated it wasn't a compliment, you came up with this post, and I retaliated, don't talk rubbish with me.

Wolf

29-Aug-2005, 12:25 AM

CrowZer0

29-Aug-2005, 12:27 AM

well, i apologize if your first post wasn't meant as an attack. it certainly seemed like it. by saying something is funny, then saying it's not a compliment to say that, generally means you're making fun what ever it is you're talking about. that's why i took issue to what you said. anyway, all opinions have been expressed. let's leave it at that, and try not to take it any further.

Dude I wasn't taking anything further, just replying to posts by a thread full of people who are attacking my posts without understanding what I mean or what I am trying to say:d But it's all good with me, it was entertaining don't you agree?

AZeitung

29-Aug-2005, 12:51 AM

Honestly, though, I'm not surprised somebody responded the way PPF! did. I knew the video would get comments like that if it was posted here.

Anth

29-Aug-2005, 11:59 AM

Okay, that's it. I'm calling a mod. A mod is here :)

I havent seen the video myself (I will though, KSW = weaponry :D), so I cant comment on that.

However, please read this thread (http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38492) from GD on posting pictures. Aye, you can get constructive criticism, but you might also get some unconstructive (as we have already seen). More of the former please, less of the latter ;)

CrowZer0

29-Aug-2005, 12:57 PM

A mod is here :)

I havent seen the video myself (I will though, KSW = weaponry :D), so I cant comment on that.

However, please read this thread (http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38492) from GD on posting pictures. Aye, you can get constructive criticism, but you might also get some unconstructive (as we have already seen). More of the former please, less of the latter ;)

Indeed:d

Ikken Hisatsu

29-Aug-2005, 01:39 PM

CrowZer0

29-Aug-2005, 01:41 PM

AZeitung

29-Aug-2005, 03:12 PM

first thing... if you dont usually do something then dont put it in your demo. those two BASIC board breaks shouldnt have been attempted if you couldnt do them. it does not look good to anyone (im guessing the point of this demo was to attract students for your club) when half of the people involved cant do it.

We did run through it twice in practice, and both times nobody had any problems. As for putting it in the demo, I'm not really sure why we did that. I had no say in what went on in the demo. I think we're supposed to do breaking in the club, but we don't, so maybe that's why.

Also, our old instructor used to be able to do some fancy breaks where he would run up walls or leap off of people's chests. Of course, he also had a black belt in TKD, so maybe that's where he learned the stuff.

you know what I would like to see at demos? FIGHTING. god forbid that people actually fight in a martial arts demo.

I did see that at a demo, recently. And it was one of the most impressive and exciting things I've ever watched. But like you said, if you don't do it in the club, don't put it in the demo (sorry, that kind of sounded mean, but for most people, it's true). I think conceptually, you're looking at the demo in a way that wouldn't make sense to the people who set it up (i.e. demos are supposed to be rehearsed, make sure nothing unexpected happens, know every move).

CrowZer0

29-Aug-2005, 03:56 PM

I like improvisation, go with the flow.

JKN_RSM

30-Aug-2005, 11:37 AM

We never practice breaking in our school and there is no need to. If you practice your kicks properly and have good technique then all you are doing is changing from a kickpad to a bit of wood.

JSun

30-Aug-2005, 04:36 PM

I second that notion. It's all in the mechanics of the motion. Watch the instructor at the demo that pulled off the high spinning kick. He was smooth, fluid and he had no problem with the break.

JSun

30-Aug-2005, 04:39 PM

I like improvisation, go with the flow.

I'd second that notion too. Knowing how to "go with the flow" definitely comes in handy in a street fight. After all, MA aren't just about fitness and lifestyle, but also self defense. Otherwise, we'd all just be in ballet.

CrowZer0

30-Aug-2005, 04:46 PM

I'd second that notion too. Knowing how to "go with the flow" definitely comes in handy in a street fight. After all, MA aren't just about fitness and lifestyle, but also self defense. Otherwise, we'd all just be in ballet.

Indeed.

Chuin

30-Aug-2005, 05:13 PM

I'm just waiting on PPF to post his demo. That way we can be constructive for him. And any others who think that demo wasnt too good. Let's see yours?

I'm betting we dont see any

Chuin

CrowZer0

30-Aug-2005, 06:05 PM

I'm just waiting on PPF to post his demo. That way we can be constructive for him. And any others who think that demo wasnt too good. Let's see yours?

I'm betting we dont see any

Chuin

You're right you wont see a demo last one was a couple of years ago something I don't have access to, we dont advertise the club we are not commercil, if you want a demo come down to our class in London, Ill be happy to demonstrate.

AZeitung

30-Aug-2005, 09:58 PM

CrowZer0

30-Aug-2005, 11:11 PM

Your club isn't commercial? What does that mean? I'll bet it's more "commercial" than mine. Mine's a college club run by students/ex students. We all put down $40/ semester ($80/year) toward renting gym space, but other than that, there aren't any fees. The demo was for quad day, which is when all the registered student organizations set up a booth at the beginning of the year so that incoming freshman can see if there are any clubs they want to join.

Well, we are not advertised anyway we dont ask for new students, none of the black belts pay anything, we train in the grandmsters garden or a hall that he rents from his friend, people pay the minimum, thats around3 pounds, for 2 hours, and I havent paid for years now;) None of the seniors have, my club isn';t commerical at all lol, we don't even wear our uniforms to lessons, just at gradings. We have maybe a maximum of 200 students.

baubin2

31-Aug-2005, 05:36 AM

Just because a club announces its existence, doesn't mean it's commercial. Illini Knitting was at quad day too, but I wouldn't call them a commercial club. There are over 1200 student organizations at U of I, and 7,200 new freshmen, most of whom have probably never heard of kuk sool won. if you don't actively tell people you exist (by setting up a booth, and performing a demo) then chances are they'll never find out.

Ricree101

31-Aug-2005, 06:41 AM

I think it is also important to consider that the needs of an on campus club are far different from those of an independant school. With the exception of those few who go into grad school, the majority of the students will be around for at most 4 or 5 years. This places a lot of pressure on a clubs to actively recruit, especially in order to get freshmen who will be able to remain in the club for the full 4 years.

While recruiting practices and comercialization sometimes go hand in hand (stories of door to door MA salesmen come to mind), they are certainly not the same. A group that doesn't find some way of acquiring new members is doomed to die. All the more so when outside circumstances dictate a high turnover.

JSun

31-Aug-2005, 02:28 PM

Your club isn't commercial? What does that mean? I'll bet it's more "commercial" than mine. Mine's a college club run by students/ex students. We all put down $40/ semester ($80/year) toward renting gym space, but other than that, there aren't any fees. The demo was for quad day, which is when all the registered student organizations set up a booth at the beginning of the year so that incoming freshman can see if there are any clubs they want to join.

OHHHH that HURT! :eek: I'm paying my @ss off! Yea, we've got a 3000 sq. ft facility that's all to ourselves, but I'm shelling out 80 bucks a month plus testing fees. Granted, that's the going rate for this art in my area, but I'm going to be paying that much until my instructor deems me knowlegeable enough to help teach. Yea, my club is commercial and for-profit, but it has added a tremendous amount of techniques to my arsenal and @ $80 a month, I guarentee I won't be quitting while I'm paying. You know what else? I really don't have a problem paying. KSN Nance is extremely knowledgeable and I think that knowledge and his dedication to teaching it is worth the money.

baubin2

31-Aug-2005, 04:25 PM

OHHHH that HURT! :eek: I'm paying my @ss off! Yea, we've got a 3000 sq. ft facility that's all to ourselves, but I'm shelling out 80 bucks a month plus testing fees. Granted, that's the going rate for this art in my area, but I'm going to be paying that much until my instructor deems me knowlegeable enough to help teach. Yea, my club is commercial and for-profit, but it has added a tremendous amount of techniques to my arsenal and @ $80 a month, I guarentee I won't be quitting while I'm paying. You know what else? I really don't have a problem paying. KSN Nance is extremely knowledgeable and I think that knowledge and his dedication to teaching it is worth the money.
*Wince*

I love college clubs. Sorry you have to pay so much Jsun.

JSun

31-Aug-2005, 08:53 PM

*Wince*

I love college clubs. Sorry you have to pay so much Jsun.

$hit, I just chalk it up to the game, Baub.

AZeitung

01-Sep-2005, 10:14 PM

It went really well (unlike last year... mumble mumble)

Enjoy!

I've been meaning to ask about that comment - not only did our quad day demo go about the same last year as it did this year, but you weren't even in Kuk Sool at the time.

baubin2

02-Sep-2005, 03:24 AM

James and others were complaining about how people were doing bad finishes last year and just generally saying the demo did not go well. I may not have been in the club, but I saw the movie on brandon's site and I have to say they had a point, especially about the finishes.

JKN_RSM

02-Sep-2005, 08:18 AM

Here's how you are meant to perform a board break. 4 x 1" thick boards.

And he doesn't practice breaking regularly!

Ikken Hisatsu

02-Sep-2005, 12:23 PM

whats with those hilarious skirt things they wear? I mean the regular uniforms seem ok but those.... way over the top. imo.

KSWDragon

02-Sep-2005, 12:38 PM

whats with those hilarious skirt things they wear? I mean the regular uniforms seem ok but those.... way over the top. imo.

How many ******* times does someone have to explain the Kuk Sool Generals uniform? :bang: KSW is a traditional martial art and the generals uniform which you see represent ancient korean armour etc amongst other things! It's part of the history.

They're only worn at demo's/promotions and weapons events at tournaments!

....but thanks for your opinion - it's made a big difference!

baubin2

02-Sep-2005, 08:05 PM

How many ******* times does someone have to explain the Kuk Sool Generals uniform? :bang: KSW is a traditional martial art and the generals uniform which you see represent ancient korean armour etc amongst other things! It's part of the history.

They're only worn at demo's/promotions and weapons events at tournaments!

....but thanks for your opinion - it's made a big difference!
Maybe we should make THAT thread a sticky too, just so people do not bug us so much over them.

Anth

02-Sep-2005, 08:25 PM

I am not a Mod for this area, but could we possibly watch the language a little, even in quotes?

KSWDragon

03-Sep-2005, 12:46 AM

I am not a Mod for this area, but could we possibly watch the language a little, even in quotes?

I supose thats aimed at me so I apologise - bad day at work! sorry!!

Chip53

03-Sep-2005, 07:59 PM

Please see my friend DARREN HART in LAKENHEATH his Phone is: 016-38-523607,
iIf you would like a taste of Mcdojo I am sure he would be more than willing to cook some up for you.

davefly76

03-Sep-2005, 08:34 PM

Please see my friend DARREN HART in LAKENHEATH his Phone is: 016-38-523607,
iIf you would like a taste of Mcdojo I am sure he would be more than willing to cook some up for you.

i'm assuming this is meant to be a sarcastic comment?

SBN darren hart is awsome and lakenheath more often than not is the most successful school at the uk tournaments.

:)

Topher

03-Sep-2005, 10:16 PM

What rank were these guys? They looked like black and brown belts. I have to say I would expect more from higher belts, especially brown and black belts :o

My main concern comes with the “self defence” applications. Train how you like in the rest of the style but for self-defence, regardless of style, energy, aggression, motion and resistance are pretty much essential, otherwise it’s worthless. You’ll never ever use it like that in a real fight. I’m not slating the school or style, just the self-defence stuff. It’s concerning to see schools train it more like roll play. I have to say from the looks of it, the SD training at yellow and red sash level in Wing Chun seem a lot more realistic.

kuk sool incorporates, kicks and advanced kicking, punches, palm strikes, chops, backfists, knifehand, single knuckle/digit strikes, elbow strikes, animal hand strikes(praying mantis/tiger claw etc), blocking, sparring, pressure point and joint locking techniques, endurance and fitness training, stretching and body conditioning, break falls, acrobatics, meditation, acupuncture and accupressure and weapons, sword and long staff in the main but also short sticks, dool bong (nunchaku) fan, spear, cane and rope plus others.

as you can see there is a massive amount to learn. not all of this is taught in the first 3 or so years but the majority of it is.

i have heard many times from other styles that our "beginners" form, ki cho hyung is one of the most involving forms to learn as a white belt.

:)
I think one of the issues is not the amount of what’s learnt, but how it’s applied. The application makes all the difference. I my eyes someone who has limited techniques, but learnt them with realistic application would be better than someone who just learnt lots and lots of stuff.

had no say in what went on in the demo.
If I was in this situation I would pipe up say mentioned that I’m not going to do something in a public demo that I can even do properly in class.

AZeitung

04-Sep-2005, 02:34 AM

What rank were these guys? They looked like black and brown belts. I have to say I would expect more from higher belts, especially brown and black belts :o

I don't know - I mean, we didn't really do much, came out, did some breaking and a couple techniques. It doesn't seem like you really saw enough to judge anything on. The bong dae ryun (staff fighting), the two attackers thing, and the fight at the end were most of the demo.

My main concern comes with the “self defence” applications. Train how you like in the rest of the style but for self-defence, regardless of style, energy, aggression, motion and resistance are pretty much essential, otherwise it’s worthless. You’ll never ever use it like that in a real fight. I’m not slating the school or style, just the self-defence stuff. It’s concerning to see schools train it more like roll play. I have to say from the looks of it, the SD training at yellow and red sash level in Wing Chun seem a lot more realistic.

I admit, that was horrible. The blackbelt who did the two attackers thing took some BJJ over the summer and just wanted to show it off, I guess. I admit, from the very first time I saw her do the routine, I was thinking "God, this is awful, that would get you killed". I feel terrible because at the KSW booth, I was advertising that you'd get to see a female blackbelt defend against two attackers, but in the back of my mind I was thinking "in the most unrealistic manner possible."

If I had tried to say something, though, I'm sure our blackbelts would have been offended and probably angry with me for insulting their routine. Since I like the club over all and wanted to stay in it, it would have been a bad move for me to try to convince them to drop that part.

But yeah, that particular section was terrible.

Still, the demo is pretty much nothing like what we do in our club - and yeah, I know that's a bad way to put on a demo. Like I said, I didn't exactly have much say.

I think one of the issues is not the amount of what’s learnt, but how it’s applied. The application makes all the difference. I my eyes someone who has limited techniques, but learnt them with realistic application would be better than someone who just learnt lots and lots of stuff.

If I was in this situation I would pipe up say mentioned that I’m not going to do something in a public demo that I can even do properly in class.
Well, *I* didn't really have a problem *doing* it. I could have easily done any of the breaks there. The other people did fine during practice as well, so I didn't see any reason to complain. I don't really know why those two guys messed up. The guy who did the downward chop must have just had an off moment, becuase I *know* he's alot better than that.

Note also that we're limmited by the people who actually volounteer to be in the demo, and I wasn't even in the same *city* as everyone else until two days before we did it.

baubin2

04-Sep-2005, 04:33 AM

Honestly, though, I'm not surprised somebody responded the way PPF! did. I knew the video would get comments like that if it was posted here.
Amazing that you can say that, and then not even a full week later, prove your own words true by taking one of the worst cracks currently present in the thread.

AZeitung

04-Sep-2005, 04:35 AM

Amazing that you can say that, and then not even a full week later, prove your own words true by taking one of the worst cracks currently present in the thread.

What are you talking about?
1) anyone who has posted to this forum for any length of time should know that people on this forum would feel that way about the video.
2) do you honestly believe that routine would have worked against two attackers? Do you really think that was a good display of self defense? Do you really think people attack one at a time, fall over as soon as you do a technique on them, and submit at just the right time for just the right amount of time? Do you honestly think there is anyone on this forum not from our club who doesn't think it was totally unrealistic?

And why is it amazing that I would prove my own words true? Wouldn't you think that I'd expect my own words to be true?