muay thai for shorties

[nicolo]

Anyone have any good strategies for short boxers going against taller boxers?

[AsSaSiN]

Sometimes i wish i was shorter. Shorter people can make the thai round kick much quicker than tall people, due to their shorter legs. Go for the body im guessing, if you cant reach the head. Stay close, dont get long range because they will take you out with their further but usually slower kicks. This is just my opinion, feel free to correct / totally annhialate my theorys.

[nicolo]

well I figure I'm either going to have to clinch with him or stay on the outside but that's his range. It's a really tough situation because of the height difference. He can clinch me much better because his weight is on top of me. I'll probably eat lots of knees and elbows as well. My knees may only come up to his thigh

I think the best way is to offset him with teeps...or clinch for his neck. If I can grab that somehow and bend him over to my level, I will be at a good advantage.

[SoKKlab]

A Smaller opponent should use much movement to frustrate his taller adversary. Constantly gauging the range and coming in and out of range, causing the taller fighter to screw up his fight rhythm.

Use close-in fighting with Elbows, knees and uppercuts. The weakest space for the taller person is inside their guard, right up under their vista. Just like when a dog jumps up on you. The 'uargagrh' feeling....

Hard quick kicks to the legs. Quick in and out movements to force openings.

Don't come in too low if you are the shorter combatant, you will get kneed in the kisser for your trouble. Don't want that.

[Skye]

Alot of successful shorter, stockier guys do well with hooks and overhand punches.

In muay Thai: Coban, in boxing: Tyson/Marciano, in MMA: Vovchanchyn.

[nicolo]

yeah i guess overwhelming the taller opponent with punching firepower would be one way but I'll need to develop stronger and harder punches for that.
When you're a shorter skinny guy, you lack some of the stopping power larger and bigger opponents have.
I've worked with Coban before and he has a nasty punch....it's from that MuangSurin camp training.

[SoKKlab]

Coban also has shins like Baseball bats, but it didn't stop Ramon Dekker from putting him into another universe..(Fair play Coban knocked him out as well-bless him).

Your recipe for success is how I described it above. Inside the guard, fast etc etc. Elbows, Knees, sneaky punches, Fast low line kicking. Taller opponent, kick their legs to pieces, by stealth.

Stopping Power- Elbows skyrocketing under chins up the centreline is a great leveller. Those jumping knees you were talking about are a nice addition to the mix, as well...

Don't matter how powerful the other guy is, if he can't hit you, because you're not there, then his first advantage is nullified.

[nicolo]

Yea yea I asked Coban about Ramon Dekker and he just smiled and said it was a good fight and gave a hearty laugh.

gripes...just thinking about all that faking, combinations, etc is making me weary. I guess for my personal style, I do like to be sneaky...you know fake alot, play games, evade, etc with the other opponent. I just need to develop on that a little more like you said. Furthermore develop a better psychological game. And a flying knee or two would surprise the hell out of an opponent, I agree.

I wish I could elbow but it's not really allowed for the fights I'm in...of course in the street it's different.

[SoKKlab]

Also Nic,
you might like to develop your way of drawing them in, catching their kicks and throwing them from there.

A fighter who is cautious and fights off the counter-attack is very hard to beat, because they're going to punish their adversary at every opportunity and they make the other commit to a particular course of action.

And you know that Throws have more than a physical emphasis, from a Psychological POV, if you keep catching kicks and throwing yr adversary to the deck. It effects them Psychologically, if each time they throw a storming kick you bail them over.

Be wary of people who throw kicks and then pull you onto their counters when you catch them mind ;)

Although it's hard work all that slipping, weaving stuff, it's worth the trouble, you'll become more slippery than an eel....

But hell, ask Coban-he should be able to give you some tips :)

[nicolo]

yes I remember sparring with a heavier fighter once and I kept catching his kicks. The only trouble was that I didn't know how to capitalize on that at the time, ie sweeping him, kneeing him, wrenching his leg, plow into him, elbow his leg etc. And he didn't know how to counter my catch...so I'd just sort of let the leg go and continue to get my ass pounded.
After a while he kind of stopped throwing so many kicks and resorted to other methods of pounding me. It's a complete psychological game and you're constantly switching tactics. I can't be counterattacker all the time because eventually he will end up drawing me into being offensive. If he's a more powerful striker, that will play right into his hands.

[SoKKlab]

I can't be counterattacker all the time because eventually he will end up drawing me into being offensive. If he's a more powerful striker, that will play right into his hands.
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Obviously Not all the time, no....
Just the most important bits ;)

I often find that you can capitalise upon your situation as counterattacker, by following up straight away, so as to break his rhythm and not allow him to get set.

Ie You might of just caught one of his kicks, countered etc.
Then as the action restarts slam in a leg kick really hard taking the initiative, before he can get his game together, once you've broken up his rhythm once, it's easier to do it a few more times because he wasn't expecting it, he was expecting you to go back to being the patient counterattacker...

Anyway, this is becoming like chess now :)
I'm sure that with practice you'll find what works for you. In the scenario, you already have most of the ideas in play, just making them work is the thing.
Good Luck.

[Rob Wyatt]

A over hand right works great for people taller. I am short and use that a lot against taller people. Also a great combo I use a lot is a left hook up to the head, when they raise there hands up high to block I give them a straight hard right to the body. They will usually drop there hands down a little because of the blow, so give them another hard left hook to the head. Or kick.

[nicolo]

yah hit 'em high and low etc etc...I think I need more pushing power for them punches. Back to the explosive benchpresses....

[Khun Kao]

I suggest attacking a taller opponents lead leg and his guard.

Attack the lead leg constantly while circling. The constant attacks to the leg disrupt your opponents rhythm & timing, as well as screwing with their base.

And attack their guard. Don't bother attacking their body or head. Just attack their guard. Same principle. It screws with their rhythm and timing.

If you can, attack their legs or arms as they attack you. I have no shortie (I'm 6' tall), but I have a few students who are considerably taller than I am. When we spar, I often attack their arm as they punch, or their leg as they kick. This causes them to begin hesitating before they attack because they don't want to get "frogged" again. This gives me my opening to step into my preferred fighting range.

For instance, one of my students is this tall-ass lurch named "Ted". Cool guy with a WICKED right cross. He dropped me once with his right cross even though I had blocked it solidly!!! The force of the blow still knocked me over!!!!

I time his shots and punch him in the biceps and triceps. After I do this for the first round, he begins hesitating on his punches. I then step in and am able to begin working his body and his head.

Same is true for kicks. As the guy with reach push kicks, scoop the kick and throw a rising round kick to the back of his leg. Or you can trap a round kick while simultaneously knee'ing the quad. You can punch or elbow too. Folks don't seem to want to kick as often after that.....

(mind you, you want to be cautious practicing these with a partner. please make sure to tell your partner that you want to practice these types of moves rather than simply attacking their weapons. You can REALLY hurt someone with these types of attacks....)

Khun Kao

[Jeff Burger]

What Khun Kao said...

If you spike in you class than spike.
By spike I mean attack the limbs as in parry the punch into the tip of your elbow an his kick to his shin / instep with the tip of your knee.
I love this stuff but its hard to do in class without injury.

We had a short guy at my first club an he ha wrestled in the past an was really stronger.

He basically closed an held clinch an kneed the guy for 5 rounds.
He won.

Beside punching the arm...kick it.
There is something called "pecking".
When I was shown it it was used like / with teep. Actually striking with the toes.
This can work on the limbs too.
Example...as you shift back to avoid a punch you can teep or if the arm is out there kick that.

Also work on your redirections ( we call it "constructive blocking" as where spiking is "destructive blocking").
Its when you block someone's technique and turn their weapons away from you so you can safely hit.

Destructive and Constructive blocking can take away his reach advantage as if you can hurt the weapon than you can both hurt eachother from a equal distance.

Jeff

[SoKKlab]

Some great advice there guys,
Fantastic to see the Muay Thai section of this forum spring back to life.

[nicolo]

nice...so it's sorta like limb destructions or defanging the snake of the FMA...but keep in mind that I am a smaller guy so my natural bone structure is vastly smaller than that of a larger opponent's. I don't know how much more I can dish out before I end up destroying my own limbs. But it is a very valid strategy to take out the weapons or crack the shell before attempting to move into the juicy areas. I just hope my own bones can hold up.

[Kwajman]

Just reach up and grab their nards...I guess that would make you REALLY short, but you need to get inside their defense, and pound away...

[nicolo]

grab their NADS? or Nards? I dunno if I can grab their nads if they're wearing a steel cup...
would be quite a surprise in the street tho...

[Kof_Andy]

Any rule regulated fighting is not meant for different size to match up. Especially if your evenly skilled with your oppoenet but different size, then your in for a ride. Anyway what above mention is good, try those out.